jophil28
Master Don Juan
Don Juan Principles ? Where do I get to read them ? I am new to this site.
Thanks . John.
Thanks . John.
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
Rollercoaster women - beware !
- Thread starter jophil28
- Start date
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
HOw do I learn about Don Juan principles? I am new to this site .
Thanks , John.
Thanks , John.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
I remember making this comment in bed one morning -
" I worship the quicksand that you walk on."
She laughed at the wit (and maybe the message in that statement. She is a teacher so she 'got' my intended meaning "
Geez now that I think about it - what is wrong with me !
It it common for BPD ladies to enjoy throwing emotional "handgrenades" into their relationship - she seemed to feed off the buzz of the drama and turmoil -and we had PLENTY.
I always felt like I was "steering and stabilizing" this relationship. It felt uncertain and unstable all of the time and if I did not bring balance then it would crash and burn . I felt like I was on guard duty most of the time - one badly worded sentence from me and she would get crazy, all depressed and withdrawn or really bit**y..... WHY ??
" I worship the quicksand that you walk on."
She laughed at the wit (and maybe the message in that statement. She is a teacher so she 'got' my intended meaning "
Geez now that I think about it - what is wrong with me !
It it common for BPD ladies to enjoy throwing emotional "handgrenades" into their relationship - she seemed to feed off the buzz of the drama and turmoil -and we had PLENTY.
I always felt like I was "steering and stabilizing" this relationship. It felt uncertain and unstable all of the time and if I did not bring balance then it would crash and burn . I felt like I was on guard duty most of the time - one badly worded sentence from me and she would get crazy, all depressed and withdrawn or really bit**y..... WHY ??
Nelford
Don Juan
I don't waste my time. IF she acts up within 3 months, I am out of there, no matter what she looks like. There are too many women in this world. Funny thing is the pretty ones are always single in my town.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
What do you do/say if she acts up in months 4,5 or 6 ??
"The greater truth is in their behavior."
"The greater truth is in their behavior."
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Road Demon
Senior Don Juan
jophil28...
You did nothing wrong...DJ principles or not. Actually, I was being a smooth DJ as I was dating other females in addition when I was with the BPD girl. Guess which one I wanted, the BPD one.
You just might be more sensitive and had actually developed actual feeling for the BPD girl. Believe me these females can be very enchanting, esp. in the begining. They are the great chamelions. Once they hook you, then they do the damage.
I do agree with Latinoman, you are wasting too much energy on her. Don't try to figure her out. It will make you crazy and question your own sanity. Don't hate her, but be empathic to the fact that she in indeed sick. You must distance yourself, and NO Contact is the only solution.
RD
You did nothing wrong...DJ principles or not. Actually, I was being a smooth DJ as I was dating other females in addition when I was with the BPD girl. Guess which one I wanted, the BPD one.
You just might be more sensitive and had actually developed actual feeling for the BPD girl. Believe me these females can be very enchanting, esp. in the begining. They are the great chamelions. Once they hook you, then they do the damage.
I do agree with Latinoman, you are wasting too much energy on her. Don't try to figure her out. It will make you crazy and question your own sanity. Don't hate her, but be empathic to the fact that she in indeed sick. You must distance yourself, and NO Contact is the only solution.
RD
WaterTiger
Master Don Juan
She shouts WHAT??????? If I were you, I'd super glue that thing on. This chick is either trying to give you a disease or a baby! Run from her! Run fast and far!jophil28 said:So I drive over and we get busy. She shouts ," Get that condom OFF."
she is not like *most* women. she has something definable. It is commonly referred to as bpd. you don't need a label though. its bad acting. we don't tolerate bad acting. the bad acting *shows up* at around 4 to 5 months. The over the top putting you up on a pedestal is your signal that something is amiss and that you should be on guard. Otherwise you are in for a whuppin.
regards
regards
jophil28 said:I remember making this comment in bed one morning -
" I worship the quicksand that you walk on."
She laughed at the wit (and maybe the message in that statement. She is a teacher so she 'got' my intended meaning "
Geez now that I think about it - what is wrong with me !
It it common for BPD ladies to enjoy throwing emotional "handgrenades" into their relationship - she seemed to feed off the buzz of the drama and turmoil -and we had PLENTY.
I always felt like I was "steering and stabilizing" this relationship. It felt uncertain and unstable all of the time and if I did not bring balance then it would crash and burn . I felt like I was on guard duty most of the time - one badly worded sentence from me and she would get crazy, all depressed and withdrawn or really bit**y..... WHY ??
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Your answers are all filling in the missing pieces of the puzzle.
She was very quick to jump into bed.She bought condoms on our second date. She and I had a rapid ,intense sexual affair for the first month and I was HOOKED. THat was last December... Then she started doing crazy things -
The first one was concerning last New Years EVE.
She and I went in together on 28 DEC to buy two tickets for a New Years Dinner Dance at a local club. I paid $40 a piece. She drove me in to the club to pick them up. The next day she called me and said that her sister was having a New Years eve party at her sisters beach house 60 miles away and the she (my Ex ) was planning to go to that party on New Years ( I was not invited). She said that it was OK for me to take another lady to the dinner dance!. I was shocked and speechless. I went alone and sat with friends.
During the New Years ever dance she called me several times on my cell talking about her "killer white swimsuit"(she was at a pool party) and how the husbands of other women there were staring at her. She also mentioned that she had gotten a Brazilian !!
Maybe this whole incident was a real big red flag. Comments from DJs ?
I am getting pissed just writting this out all over again -so I will leave this now for some sleep.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ok - I am back on deck and looking for some answers .
Do any of you DJs see yourself dealing very calmly with the situation that I have written about above ? What would you have done .
I have always been treated very well by women in the past , so this Diva's tactics really knocked me out of the park.
Maybe this is my FIRST BPD lady?
She was very quick to jump into bed.She bought condoms on our second date. She and I had a rapid ,intense sexual affair for the first month and I was HOOKED. THat was last December... Then she started doing crazy things -
The first one was concerning last New Years EVE.
She and I went in together on 28 DEC to buy two tickets for a New Years Dinner Dance at a local club. I paid $40 a piece. She drove me in to the club to pick them up. The next day she called me and said that her sister was having a New Years eve party at her sisters beach house 60 miles away and the she (my Ex ) was planning to go to that party on New Years ( I was not invited). She said that it was OK for me to take another lady to the dinner dance!. I was shocked and speechless. I went alone and sat with friends.
During the New Years ever dance she called me several times on my cell talking about her "killer white swimsuit"(she was at a pool party) and how the husbands of other women there were staring at her. She also mentioned that she had gotten a Brazilian !!
Maybe this whole incident was a real big red flag. Comments from DJs ?
I am getting pissed just writting this out all over again -so I will leave this now for some sleep.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ok - I am back on deck and looking for some answers .
Do any of you DJs see yourself dealing very calmly with the situation that I have written about above ? What would you have done .
I have always been treated very well by women in the past , so this Diva's tactics really knocked me out of the park.
Maybe this is my FIRST BPD lady?
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WAS THE SEX THE BEST??? I was with one of these PMS'g, completely emotional non logical "baby *****es" for about 3 yrs. The reason I kept falling back into her web of depressive BS was the AWESOME sex, simple as that.
I eventually met a few more women over the last couple of years and actually met one who is actualy better in bed and drama free.
Just my 2 cents...
(when in doubt-GAS IT)
I eventually met a few more women over the last couple of years and actually met one who is actualy better in bed and drama free.
Just my 2 cents...
(when in doubt-GAS IT)
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Yes -the sex was what kept me hooked in. It was exquisite. She was so beautiful in the candle glow . I could f**k her for hours and still want more .
I could never get enough of her .
But her behavior became more unpredictable and I was living in a nervous uncertain state EVERY day.The drama was all HER creation - it was more like sabotage than open drama. She kept coming back to create more wreckage and I kept trying to stabilize her - it got worse I NEVER had this experience with another woman.
I will take a while to recover.
I could never get enough of her .
But her behavior became more unpredictable and I was living in a nervous uncertain state EVERY day.The drama was all HER creation - it was more like sabotage than open drama. She kept coming back to create more wreckage and I kept trying to stabilize her - it got worse I NEVER had this experience with another woman.
I will take a while to recover.
MightyMate
Master Don Juan
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Its easy to get addicted to such woman. I love them. They are crazy but You never get bored.
drmeathead
Senior Don Juan
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jophil,
man i just got out an almost year long ordeal with a BPD. so much of what you are saying is right on the money. i could share so many stories with you. i stood by this girl as i told her i loved her and i would not leave her if she had a different type of illness. she claimed her ex messed her up and that she hated him. 3 weeks after i dumped her, she was back with the ex. a big slap in the face.
i have done alot of reading on this. they dont want you. they have a chemical imbalance in the brain that does not allow them to feel secure. you will always be 95% good enough at best and evil at worst. they will say and do anything to keep you close so kill their fear of being alone. it doesnt matter to them that you may take their words to heart. that you believe what they say as true. all that matters to them is that they are not alone.
you are eventually left alone. either because they go on to someone else because they imagine you have left or because you leave. it is better to leave them first, as in any relationship, as if you do they will demonize you. they wont try to suck you back in. the best way to get over the damage they have caused is no contact what so ever.
if you have anymore questions ask me.
man i just got out an almost year long ordeal with a BPD. so much of what you are saying is right on the money. i could share so many stories with you. i stood by this girl as i told her i loved her and i would not leave her if she had a different type of illness. she claimed her ex messed her up and that she hated him. 3 weeks after i dumped her, she was back with the ex. a big slap in the face.
i have done alot of reading on this. they dont want you. they have a chemical imbalance in the brain that does not allow them to feel secure. you will always be 95% good enough at best and evil at worst. they will say and do anything to keep you close so kill their fear of being alone. it doesnt matter to them that you may take their words to heart. that you believe what they say as true. all that matters to them is that they are not alone.
you are eventually left alone. either because they go on to someone else because they imagine you have left or because you leave. it is better to leave them first, as in any relationship, as if you do they will demonize you. they wont try to suck you back in. the best way to get over the damage they have caused is no contact what so ever.
if you have anymore questions ask me.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Thanks Dr Meathead, I am real beaten up by this experience.
She was a professional teacher, mother of three teens,she had survived an alcoholic marriage and an earlier alcoholic/abusive / cheating father . However in her emotional connection with me ,she was a trainwreck. I NEVER met anyone like her .
In a matter of a few minutes she could switch from the most exquisite sex partner to someone who says " This is the last time we will be doing this " !!!
A week later she is begging me to screw her in her big bed. Then wants to break up because we are not compatable !!
I was "living on the edge" - adrenaline and hormones pumping .
She undermined any attempt of mine to stabilize our relationship -she seemed to want a 'looser' connection that I did BUT she insisted that I remain faithful and committed to her, and she was endlessly suspicious with lots of mistrust( She would count my condoms from night to night )
One moment I felt like the KING of the Hill and the next day she treated me like a ball of gutter crap. I went from emotional throne to dumpster. !!
Talk to me some more please !
The drama never stopped BUT the romance and sex was addictive (but ultimately she f**ked my head real bad.)
I am not sure whether she is like she is because she is a "ACoA" or whether she is BPD. However,emotionally, she was a brat teenager in a 49 year old body ...
Was your woman a "sweeter than sweet type ? A real China Doll ?
J.
She was a professional teacher, mother of three teens,she had survived an alcoholic marriage and an earlier alcoholic/abusive / cheating father . However in her emotional connection with me ,she was a trainwreck. I NEVER met anyone like her .
In a matter of a few minutes she could switch from the most exquisite sex partner to someone who says " This is the last time we will be doing this " !!!
A week later she is begging me to screw her in her big bed. Then wants to break up because we are not compatable !!
I was "living on the edge" - adrenaline and hormones pumping .
She undermined any attempt of mine to stabilize our relationship -she seemed to want a 'looser' connection that I did BUT she insisted that I remain faithful and committed to her, and she was endlessly suspicious with lots of mistrust( She would count my condoms from night to night )
One moment I felt like the KING of the Hill and the next day she treated me like a ball of gutter crap. I went from emotional throne to dumpster. !!
Talk to me some more please !
The drama never stopped BUT the romance and sex was addictive (but ultimately she f**ked my head real bad.)
I am not sure whether she is like she is because she is a "ACoA" or whether she is BPD. However,emotionally, she was a brat teenager in a 49 year old body ...
Was your woman a "sweeter than sweet type ? A real China Doll ?
J.
drmeathead
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
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yeah she was the best when things were good. absolutely amazing but i always felt like i was walking on eggshells with her. i never knew what would set her off.
she would get upset at the smallest thing. like i got yelled at for watching a tv show that she would watch with me. not because i didnt invite her over but because i was checking the girls out on the show. when i pointed out that it was regualr cable and there was no nudity that didnt matter. when i pointed out that she had a poster of a half naked guy on her wall for the first 6 months we dated, that got justified.
there was alot more, ALOT more. she messed with my head really bad. there was abuse mental emotional and even some physical. she isolated me. she slowly destroyed my self-esteem. it happened so very slowly. it was like i looked up one day and was like damn i am in way over my head. i need to get out. but how?
i tried to get out. i did. i broke up with her 500 times i bet. she wouldnt go away. it became easier to stay than to deal with a dozen phone calls after i dumped her or to argue till 4 am. that was wrong too. that took a big toll on me. dont follow that route.
well i gotta get going i got a patient coming in at 9. anymore questions let em know
she would get upset at the smallest thing. like i got yelled at for watching a tv show that she would watch with me. not because i didnt invite her over but because i was checking the girls out on the show. when i pointed out that it was regualr cable and there was no nudity that didnt matter. when i pointed out that she had a poster of a half naked guy on her wall for the first 6 months we dated, that got justified.
there was alot more, ALOT more. she messed with my head really bad. there was abuse mental emotional and even some physical. she isolated me. she slowly destroyed my self-esteem. it happened so very slowly. it was like i looked up one day and was like damn i am in way over my head. i need to get out. but how?
i tried to get out. i did. i broke up with her 500 times i bet. she wouldnt go away. it became easier to stay than to deal with a dozen phone calls after i dumped her or to argue till 4 am. that was wrong too. that took a big toll on me. dont follow that route.
well i gotta get going i got a patient coming in at 9. anymore questions let em know
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
drmeathead
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 490
- Reaction score
- 6
- Age
- 47
i have it on itunes. i have been through half of it. i used some of the stuff in there to get her. then i got her and i was like whoa what did i do. haha!!
anyway my ex, if you are refering to mine, is much more than a siren. she has issues. one time she threatened to kill herself in public by banging her head off a concrete poll unless i went back to the bar with her.
yeah i know, right? anyway i am hear to help anyone i can with a bpd ex. the biggest thing i can tell guys is that you are not alone. others have gone through and are going through what you are in. secondly, no it is not normal and you didnt do anything wrong. you are still a good person.
anyway my ex, if you are refering to mine, is much more than a siren. she has issues. one time she threatened to kill herself in public by banging her head off a concrete poll unless i went back to the bar with her.
yeah i know, right? anyway i am hear to help anyone i can with a bpd ex. the biggest thing i can tell guys is that you are not alone. others have gone through and are going through what you are in. secondly, no it is not normal and you didnt do anything wrong. you are still a good person.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Do all BPDs cut?
And do they all rant loudly?
And do they all rant loudly?
drmeathead
Senior Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
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- 490
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- 47
I dont know about cutting personally but yes they do exhibit various forms of self-destructive behavior. Mine would threaten suicide, threaten to over consume alcohol, told me of a time in a previous relationship that she drove her car so fast hoping to hit a tree, purging after meals.
As far as raging, I do know about that personally. My life was spent for nine months trying to placate to avoid a rage. Often I never ever knew what would spark one. That was very stressful. The rages would often turn violent. The rages would be over nothing but eventually cover everything. Mine would often refuse to let me end an argument when she was in the middle of a rage. She would get physical if I tried to avoid her during a rage. They were hell.
Whats going on with you man? Are you experiencing these rages and self destructive behaviors?
As far as raging, I do know about that personally. My life was spent for nine months trying to placate to avoid a rage. Often I never ever knew what would spark one. That was very stressful. The rages would often turn violent. The rages would be over nothing but eventually cover everything. Mine would often refuse to let me end an argument when she was in the middle of a rage. She would get physical if I tried to avoid her during a rage. They were hell.
Whats going on with you man? Are you experiencing these rages and self destructive behaviors?
jophil28
Master Don Juan
No rages - no cutting - no violence .But all the other symptoms of BPD are there to a large extent. The emotional swirling and switching. The need to be "right" which shows in her aggressive arguementative style. The cold and callous disregard for other peoples feelings , but she claims to be all "sweet and lovely" and to want everything to be "NICE !"
However, this NICE person cheated on her husbamd three times (that she admits to) and saw other men behind my back earlier this year because ,
" until a man puts a ring on your finger, anything goes" - however she was crazy jealous if I even danced with another woman. She walked out of clubs four times over other women talking to me or asking me to dance with them.
However, this NICE person cheated on her husbamd three times (that she admits to) and saw other men behind my back earlier this year because ,
" until a man puts a ring on your finger, anything goes" - however she was crazy jealous if I even danced with another woman. She walked out of clubs four times over other women talking to me or asking me to dance with them.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
THis woman called me one Tuesday morning and said " I just called to say "Goodbye ".. It is over."
I said OK.
She then text me the next Sunday morning "I can come to you now"
I ignored her.
My head was spinning !! And still is - months later.
I said OK.
She then text me the next Sunday morning "I can come to you now"
I ignored her.
My head was spinning !! And still is - months later.
"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"
You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.
She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.
Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.
Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.