jophil28
Master Don Juan
She says that she never slept with anybody else but me during our relationship. She was an "attention " junkie and her dating other guys for attention is bad enough in my book of rules.
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Rollercoaster women - beware !
- Thread starter jophil28
- Start date
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Question still remains - is taking a call from another guy,and agreeing to meet him for coffee the next afternoon a dealbreaker. This happened while she was naked and still wet after screwing me a few minutes earlier.
The way I try to filter these out is by finding out what they like to do in their spare time... if they have absolutely NO hobbies, interests, goals, etc. then you have a girl whose entire existence revolves around guys. I don't date these girls anymore because they are trouble.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
OK I researched this PD stuff endlessly over the past two months.
She matches -
DEpendent -about 90%
Avoidant about 80 %
Borderline -about 50%
and Histrionic about 40 %
The signigicance of BPD is lost on me. She mainly acts out in a conflict between the DPD pull into clingy fawning relationships and the distancing and sabotage that is common in AVP which pulls her,and holds her , OUT of relationships . FRom the first two months she always appeared to be at the mercy of two powerful opposing forces. Now I know their names. The BPD is not something that I understand -yet, but it is in the mix.
However, there is a good chance that she is just a hateful Bi**h who loves screwing men over because she had a bad childhood with her alcoholic violent Dad. Maybe I just got into something that is outside my frame of reference.
So what now ?
She matches -
DEpendent -about 90%
Avoidant about 80 %
Borderline -about 50%
and Histrionic about 40 %
The signigicance of BPD is lost on me. She mainly acts out in a conflict between the DPD pull into clingy fawning relationships and the distancing and sabotage that is common in AVP which pulls her,and holds her , OUT of relationships . FRom the first two months she always appeared to be at the mercy of two powerful opposing forces. Now I know their names. The BPD is not something that I understand -yet, but it is in the mix.
However, there is a good chance that she is just a hateful Bi**h who loves screwing men over because she had a bad childhood with her alcoholic violent Dad. Maybe I just got into something that is outside my frame of reference.
So what now ?
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
Road Demon
Senior Don Juan
You are correct that an individual can manifest symptoms of different personality disorders (PD).
I agree with persistant extraction that is either HPD or BPD. Sounds more like BPD though.
We all can have negative aspects of our personality that can undergo improvement. Individuals who are diagnosid with PD often severe manifestions of several negative personality traits.
Borderlines are the worst of the Personality Disorders. Many mental health professional are reluctant to treat them because they are SO demanding.
BPD is centered around emotional instability. Their moods can change within in minutes. They have severe fears of abandonment (usually imagined). They have trouble mantaining close personal relationships and thrive on drama. They cannot see 'gray' in life, and this is manifested in black/white thinking. They can be extremely self-centered and selfish. They are the 'emotional vampires.'
Check out Helen's World of BPD resources. Excellent.
http://www.bpdresources.com/
At first they seem perfect and everything you ever wanted, aka that why they are labeled the great chameleon. But in time BPD rears its ugly head. Trust me it is VERY ugly. BPD can make a "normal and well-adjusted" person begin to make them question their own sanity.
You can be empathetic to PD individual, but don't get involved in their emotional vortex.
Women are several times more likely to be BPD than men.
j
I agree with persistant extraction that is either HPD or BPD. Sounds more like BPD though.
We all can have negative aspects of our personality that can undergo improvement. Individuals who are diagnosid with PD often severe manifestions of several negative personality traits.
Borderlines are the worst of the Personality Disorders. Many mental health professional are reluctant to treat them because they are SO demanding.
BPD is centered around emotional instability. Their moods can change within in minutes. They have severe fears of abandonment (usually imagined). They have trouble mantaining close personal relationships and thrive on drama. They cannot see 'gray' in life, and this is manifested in black/white thinking. They can be extremely self-centered and selfish. They are the 'emotional vampires.'
Check out Helen's World of BPD resources. Excellent.
http://www.bpdresources.com/
At first they seem perfect and everything you ever wanted, aka that why they are labeled the great chameleon. But in time BPD rears its ugly head. Trust me it is VERY ugly. BPD can make a "normal and well-adjusted" person begin to make them question their own sanity.
You can be empathetic to PD individual, but don't get involved in their emotional vortex.
Women are several times more likely to be BPD than men.
j
jophil28
Master Don Juan
What exactly is meant by black and white thinking ?
I am only vaguely aware of this concept - is it the "all or nothing " mentality?
What sort of behaviors might I see in a BPD female who is doing B and W thinking .
I am only vaguely aware of this concept - is it the "all or nothing " mentality?
What sort of behaviors might I see in a BPD female who is doing B and W thinking .
I've noticed that, but haven't seen it stated as fact until now. I wonder if more women are BPD, simply because they CAN be. That is, the same wild behavior might earn boys painful beatings at a young age, and painful loneliness as an adult, whereas women don't feel the consequences so directly.
You might notice that whenever BPD girls are talked about here, they are invariably described as very hot, as if ugly, obese females are forced to behave normally from the get go.
an example would be that one day you are their KING and on another day you are someone they can't possibly love. they don't deal in grey areas, for example you are just a human with strengths and weaknesses like everyone. With them the "facts" follow their feelings, which lack consistency.
regards
regards
jophil28 said:
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jophil28 said:
A deal breaker? That depends on your standards.
Now going on a DATE with another guy while in a committed relationship with you? What do you think? I mean...are you doing the same to her? If you are NOT...then think about it for a second.
"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"
When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.
Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.
Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.
The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
The Black and white thinking was present in her from the early days. She cannot " negotiate" anything. The smallest issue turns into a confused conflict. There was no easy flow.
I never experienced anyone like her before. I felt as if I was being "towed" by her swirling emotions. Her feelings could switch and change daily and THIS seemed to be what decided the direction of our relationship.
All the while she was having a low level conflict at her house with her Ex B/f who still lived there and was getting jealous because she was screwing me out here in the shadows(and that is where she tried to keep me - in the shadows).
This woman had -
A father who drank and screwed around.
A mother who looked the other way.
She was engaged to a guy for six years in her twenties and then met D on a girls night out. She broke up with the B/F and married 'bad boy' D but kept seeing the Ex B/f in the background.
She had an affair in the first two years of the marriage when D went to work in another city.
The marriage was "in turmoil from day one." So she says.
I have met the Ex husband (D) and he says that they spent less than half of their married live together. Constant break-ups with long separations - seven months - five months. Three kids in the middle of all this uproar.
SHe seems to enjoy taunting me with convos which point out that there are other guys waiting in the wings.
Our third break-up in May was for three weeks with no contact. Then she called me and we got together to "talk it out ". WE went out on a date that night and we slept together at my place. She went home at 9am and met me for coffee and more talks the next day. As we were leaving the coffee shop, she says." I went out for lunch today with Tony(a "friend" who has ben chasing her). He asked me out when we were separated."
I was "deer in the headlights" -
I said "So you called ME to get back together yesterday. WE went out and then had sex for some hours last night and all the while you knew that you were going out on a date with another guy some hours later. " She said " You are taking it very well." I was having a F**King internal meltdown !!
I should have walked away THEN !!!.
Is this typical BPD girlie behavior or what/. I NEVER saw this S**t before with any woman...and I did not trust my gut enough to bail when this stuff started to emerge. There were about 6 other events of this type in the 9 months that we were together. The trouble was that NOTHING that she ever said was reliable -she chopped and changed the slant on things and her behavior was usually in conflict with her statements. It got me crazy, and even though I have not spoken to her for more that a month I am not doing well at all. I will never call her again BUT she may call me and I cannot guarantee my behavior. Sex with her was surreal even though she was quite passive ..
I never experienced anyone like her before. I felt as if I was being "towed" by her swirling emotions. Her feelings could switch and change daily and THIS seemed to be what decided the direction of our relationship.
All the while she was having a low level conflict at her house with her Ex B/f who still lived there and was getting jealous because she was screwing me out here in the shadows(and that is where she tried to keep me - in the shadows).
This woman had -
A father who drank and screwed around.
A mother who looked the other way.
She was engaged to a guy for six years in her twenties and then met D on a girls night out. She broke up with the B/F and married 'bad boy' D but kept seeing the Ex B/f in the background.
She had an affair in the first two years of the marriage when D went to work in another city.
The marriage was "in turmoil from day one." So she says.
I have met the Ex husband (D) and he says that they spent less than half of their married live together. Constant break-ups with long separations - seven months - five months. Three kids in the middle of all this uproar.
SHe seems to enjoy taunting me with convos which point out that there are other guys waiting in the wings.
Our third break-up in May was for three weeks with no contact. Then she called me and we got together to "talk it out ". WE went out on a date that night and we slept together at my place. She went home at 9am and met me for coffee and more talks the next day. As we were leaving the coffee shop, she says." I went out for lunch today with Tony(a "friend" who has ben chasing her). He asked me out when we were separated."
I was "deer in the headlights" -
I said "So you called ME to get back together yesterday. WE went out and then had sex for some hours last night and all the while you knew that you were going out on a date with another guy some hours later. " She said " You are taking it very well." I was having a F**King internal meltdown !!
I should have walked away THEN !!!.
Is this typical BPD girlie behavior or what/. I NEVER saw this S**t before with any woman...and I did not trust my gut enough to bail when this stuff started to emerge. There were about 6 other events of this type in the 9 months that we were together. The trouble was that NOTHING that she ever said was reliable -she chopped and changed the slant on things and her behavior was usually in conflict with her statements. It got me crazy, and even though I have not spoken to her for more that a month I am not doing well at all. I will never call her again BUT she may call me and I cannot guarantee my behavior. Sex with her was surreal even though she was quite passive ..
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focus on bpd..those other pd you mentioned are rare. bp kind of covers (co-morbid) all that and its more common in women. she shows all the signs. she triangulated you with the ex and he was even living there (no doubt also having her sexually). I mean thats just wrong man. but you aren't the first nor will you be the last to meet up with one. the trick is to recognize it early and make the right decision to exit. the problems come when we stay and become a part of their toxic drama creation.
regards
regards
It is ironic that the labeling of a personality is in and of itself a main symptom of BPD (black and white thinking). Every personality differs. Personalities are grey, not black and white.
You can't just read about a "personality disorder" and say, "they have that" and then automatically ascertain that their personality manifests all of the symptoms.
You can't just read about a "personality disorder" and say, "they have that" and then automatically ascertain that their personality manifests all of the symptoms.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
Huh !!
She has All the symptoms of Dependent PD ,most of the symptoms of Avoidant PD and a lot of BPD characteristics plus a few Histrionic...
That makes her f**king crazy and a bad news partner.
What kind of woman dumps a fiance of six years to marry another guy "in lust" but keeps the ex fiance in the background and goes out with him occasionally in secret.
She triangulates her relationships and she did it with me too.
Is this typical of BPD ladies. It seems that they regard men as 'objects' to be exploited and then discarded . I am still tying to get my head around this woman. She is so cold underneath but all "sweet and lovely" on the surface. A real "China Doll " type. Butter would not melt -etc.
She has All the symptoms of Dependent PD ,most of the symptoms of Avoidant PD and a lot of BPD characteristics plus a few Histrionic...
That makes her f**king crazy and a bad news partner.
What kind of woman dumps a fiance of six years to marry another guy "in lust" but keeps the ex fiance in the background and goes out with him occasionally in secret.
She triangulates her relationships and she did it with me too.
Is this typical of BPD ladies. It seems that they regard men as 'objects' to be exploited and then discarded . I am still tying to get my head around this woman. She is so cold underneath but all "sweet and lovely" on the surface. A real "China Doll " type. Butter would not melt -etc.
I think every woman displays these characteristics... just to different degrees. 
And I understand what you mean about "sweet and lovely"... I try to avoid it myself with this one girl... it's like you know deep down underneath they are this medusa, but you keep getting sucked in by their charm. But still if you take a look at how she sees you as either this or that, when you look at somebody as having a "personality disorder," you are doing the same thing.
And I understand what you mean about "sweet and lovely"... I try to avoid it myself with this one girl... it's like you know deep down underneath they are this medusa, but you keep getting sucked in by their charm. But still if you take a look at how she sees you as either this or that, when you look at somebody as having a "personality disorder," you are doing the same thing."Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
I don't understand your reasoning fully .
Road Demon
Senior Don Juan
"We all can have negative aspects of our personality that can undergo improvement. Individuals who are diagnosid with PD often severe manifestions of several negative personality traits. "
Think of individual with extreme negative personality traits. A cluster of certain negative personality traits are hallmarks of a PD.
I agree with persistent exaction, it is not the other PDs, but it is BPD.
BPD is based on emotion instability. I believe if you strongly express 5 out of the 9 major symptoms as outlined by the DSM manual, that is good enough for is the BPD diagnosis.
Sounds like BPD...
Esp. with those sexual antics and that relationship history instability and drama.
Black/white thinking. You are great then you are horrible. She loves you then hates you. You are their for her all the time, but then you have to work late one night, so you abandoned her.
You said you never experienced someone like her before...
Welcome to BPD.
Think of individual with extreme negative personality traits. A cluster of certain negative personality traits are hallmarks of a PD.
I agree with persistent exaction, it is not the other PDs, but it is BPD.
BPD is based on emotion instability. I believe if you strongly express 5 out of the 9 major symptoms as outlined by the DSM manual, that is good enough for is the BPD diagnosis.
Sounds like BPD...
Esp. with those sexual antics and that relationship history instability and drama.
Black/white thinking. You are great then you are horrible. She loves you then hates you. You are their for her all the time, but then you have to work late one night, so you abandoned her.
You said you never experienced someone like her before...
Welcome to BPD.
JustDoItAlways
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
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Being a Don Juan screens these women out.
If you employ Don Juan principles, you realize early on with women like these that you are wasting your time and you move on.
If you act like a Don Juan, these women move on very soon after meeting you because they realize their little games won't work on you.
If you are a Don Juan, high quality, high self-esteem women are drawn to you, especially after they get to know the Don Juan you better.
This is the way to look at this situation rather than focussing how bad these women are.
If you employ Don Juan principles, you realize early on with women like these that you are wasting your time and you move on.
If you act like a Don Juan, these women move on very soon after meeting you because they realize their little games won't work on you.
If you are a Don Juan, high quality, high self-esteem women are drawn to you, especially after they get to know the Don Juan you better.
This is the way to look at this situation rather than focussing how bad these women are.
jophil28 no offense...but you are wasting a lot of energy focusing on her. It is okay to share the experience for the benefit of others (so we can see similar signals and avoid similar mistakes). However, the questions and analysis of "why" she was behaving like that is a waste of energy. She is a slut...plain and simple. She is gone and she should have LONG TIME ago.
jophil28
Master Don Juan
It is REAL hard to hear that the woman who captured my heart and soul after me being single for many years is a SLUT. Just go easy on me for a while yet.
I do have a need to know(in detail) who and WHAT I was "in love" with and what was happening and WHY it happened.
She did display many of the PD symptoms . Black and White thinking ? Here is one for your comments.
There were several times when I went from feeling like she" just adored me" to being treated like "The enemy" - in one second or less.
Example -
A few months ago we were shopping and as we walked thru the mall carpark, we were happy and laughing on our way to coffee . WE had just bought her some dance shoes. I playfully pulled her toward me to kiss her on the side of her mouth. She abruptly pulled back and recoiled with a sarcastic comment about how she never did like being affectionate in public.
Later she told me that she objected to my attempt to kiss her because "It was "Male Territory marking behavior" Huh! Since when did spontaneous affection cause this kind of trouble. .. Is this BPD or some weird sh!t from the loonie outer edge of feminism .
I do have a need to know(in detail) who and WHAT I was "in love" with and what was happening and WHY it happened.
She did display many of the PD symptoms . Black and White thinking ? Here is one for your comments.
There were several times when I went from feeling like she" just adored me" to being treated like "The enemy" - in one second or less.
Example -
A few months ago we were shopping and as we walked thru the mall carpark, we were happy and laughing on our way to coffee . WE had just bought her some dance shoes. I playfully pulled her toward me to kiss her on the side of her mouth. She abruptly pulled back and recoiled with a sarcastic comment about how she never did like being affectionate in public.
Later she told me that she objected to my attempt to kiss her because "It was "Male Territory marking behavior" Huh! Since when did spontaneous affection cause this kind of trouble. .. Is this BPD or some weird sh!t from the loonie outer edge of feminism .
"She's Out of Your League"
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.