Relax......it will be ok

[sazc]

A lot of what I see you guys complain about on here has to do with not having good/well defined boundaries and standards and/or pedestalizing pvssy to a degree.

Im not trying to offend or attack.

The moment that the interaction doesn't 'feel' right, is THE moment you should stop and assess if the relationship is maintaining a healthy and respectful tone. If it is not, you should not hesitate to create distance and silence. In most cases the other person knows they were a disrespectful tuuat. Sometimes the other person does not know because that is the way they operate in the world. In any case, backing off, when there is disrespectful behavior, should be done because you know you are the prize. You are the king and should be interacted with on a respectful level at all times.

Dont let your neediness (the need to feel loved, wanted, desired, have a companion, get secks) EVER over rule your standard of alwy being treated with RESPECT and compassion in a relationship.

We ALL want to feel loved, wanted, desired, have a companion, get secks. But accepting companionship from someone whom doesnt respect you means drama and an eventual crash and burn that is going to hurt FAR worse than if you hold frame early by refusing to accept sh1tty behavior.

 

[highSpeed]

I had a similar issue last year , with a chick that I “really liked” and it all came crashing down because I chose to ignore the elephant that had been standing in the room with us for 3 months after we met ( her EX )

The problem is it doesn’t matter how good you are with women or how many you’ve slept with how many plates you have spinning

Once you meet one you genuinely connect with one past a sexual level the whole landscape changes nothing can really prepare you for it ( bar experience )

It’s a common misconception that women develop feelings faster than men …… they don’t simple as that after 3 months I had assumed that this was long enough for us to be exclusive and for her to understand what I expected from her as a “girlfriend”

To cut a long story short it wasn’t …..and after a further 2 months of us tearing each other apart she decided to tell me she was back seeing her ex and wanted to see where things were going with him

I was sad but decided to cut all contact and move on with my life 4 months later she begged me to meet her so I decided to hear her out I could tell she had genuine remorse

It left me with a very difficult decision so I took her back on probation and 7 months later everything’s ticking along nicely

Even now I wouldn’t even say I’m as invested as I was in those first 3 months but that was a lesson I had to learn the hard way , had I read the writing on the wall regarding her ex from around the second week in I could of saved myself a lot of heartache but I chose not too out of ignorance


To summarise :

Unfortunately generally women don’t realise the consequences of boundaries until they’ve crossed them

( think the story of Adam & eve where eve took the apple despite being told she wasn’t allowed it )

Its then up to you as the man to decide whether she has learnt her lesson or whether she is likely to do something like that again, some people are capable of learning lessons others are not.

While I can appreciate the emotion wrapped up in your situation, let me see if I get this straight, she leaves you to decide whether or not she wants to get back with her ex, it doesn't work out (duh!!!!) and you take her back? WHY???!!! First off, you realize that if things went off without a hitch in her return engagement with the ex, your name would be a distant memory at best in her mind right? Second, that makes you second fiddle status immediately in both her mind and yours as well, you can't deny that. Third, if you did the same thing, would she take you back? Finally, and this is a guess, I bet he did sh*t to her that you wouldn't do to a farm animal, so there's that gorilla in the room. How in the hell do you justify this to yourself?

 

[Toddz]

You're doing everything right in a mature, healthy, and respectful way. You're holding frame, and being a man with options you are prepared to walk. It sucks if you like her, but the position and timing in her situation means this interaction is most likely done.

The sad thing is she is probably spinning it into you being needy and weak right now. Women tend to rationalize every interaction into whatever makes them feel better. At this point, I would do what you're doing in loading up other plates and let her do what she needs to do in order to have things progress with you. The ball is in her court.

Get involved with a woman going through a divorce is a tricky matter. It's like stumbling upon a minefield while just out for a leisurely walk one day. I was involved with a woman recently divorced last year and there was simply too much drama. It was like riding a roller coaster that never ended.

 

[Roober]

Like I said, I am going to go against the grain here...

So, in the OP, you stated...
1. You have been dating this girl for 3 months
a. are you in an exclusive relationship? It doesn't sound like it. And if you are after 3 months, why?
b. Do you believe at 3 months you can tell another human being how they should conduct their lives?

You aren't leading this woman to water, you are pushing her to the fountain. The more you push, the more she will resist. Your forward approach on a very young potential relationship is likely a huge turnoff. Divorces are a very delicate situation, and every divorce is different. I wanted to get divorced quickly, but it took about 20 months. If one person wants to drag it out, then they can. Court dates do not come easy, and simple resolutions can take months to resolve. There tends to be breakdowns in communication, disagreements on alimony/child support, property, etc. There is much to consider. For example, my buddy getting divorced is disabled, his ex makes over 200k a year, and she wants to keep the house, give him 30% of their savings, and only pay $1,500/month in alimony and child support (guideline would be 5k). There is always reasons to delay a divorce for one party.

Long story short, you are making her uncomfortable in an uncomfortable situation. She is educated, so she likely has some sort of plan, or is sticking to certain things. This is where things drag out, for months to years. It is not ideal for anyone, but unfortunately, it happens all the time. If one party refuses to roll over, then it will take time. That is a fact. So think about that, and then put yourself in the picture.

Her shoes: Here is this new guy that I have been seeing for 3 months, and has been pressuring me on my divorce. I have to work out a, b, c, d, e, and f and I don't want to get taken to the cleaners on this settlement. And this MF keeps pressuring me. Fvck that. I need to deal with this $hit on my own. This budding romance isn't fun any more...

When going through my divorce, I dated two different women. I dated my exgf (that landed me here) for 4 months, and she pressured me like a mofo. It would come up weekly. Then I started making decisions I wasn't completely happy with. So I stopped telling her details. I was tired of the "why aren't things moving along?" nonsense... My current gf and I were together maybe 8 months prior to my divorce, and she rarely questioned me about it. I also told her much less. In fact, I didn't tell her I was still married till 3-4 months in. She didn't care. She asked, "It's over right? I mean, your not going to go running back to her?" After that, it was like nothing...

If you are a valuable man that a woman wants to be with, you will lead her. You don't force her. You don't question her. You listen and establish dominance. Once you establish dominance, SHE WILL WANT to escalate the divorce. SHE WILL WANT to be with you. SHE WILL even settle on things and compromise, so she can be done with it to be with you.

You have to make her want the divorce, and frankly, it sounds like you are doing quite the opposite.

When she talks, you listen. Do not judge. Do not offer advice unless asked. Do not try to fix the situation. Do not waver with emotions. Do not mirror her behavior.

So what do you do?

Maybe tell her, "I know you'll take care of it babe, but I don't really want to hear about it"
Maybe start seeing other women
Maybe reduce dates a bit
Maybe withdraw some attention
Maybe fvck her a bit better
Maybe lead her!

 

[guru1000]

To cut a long story short it wasn’t …..and after a further 2 months of us tearing each other apart she decided to tell me she was back seeing her ex and wanted to see where things were going with him

I was sad but decided to cut all contact and move on with my life 4 months later she begged me to meet her so I decided to hear her out I could tell she had genuine remorse

It left me with a very difficult decision so I took her back on probation and 7 months later everything’s ticking along nicely

Even now I wouldn’t even say I’m as invested as I was in those first 3 months but that was a lesson I had to learn the hard way , had I read the writing on the wall regarding her ex from around the second week in I could of saved myself a lot of heartache but I chose not too out of ignorance

Pyrrhic victory, with the greater loss being the loss of self.

YOU > women

Until men begin to truly understand this rudimentary concept, your piece of mind and happiness will be subject to the whims of others.

 

[Toddz]

Like I said, I am going to go against the grain here...

So, in the OP, you stated...
1. You have been dating this girl for 3 months
a. are you in an exclusive relationship? It doesn't sound like it. And if you are after 3 months, why?
b. Do you believe at 3 months you can tell another human being how they should conduct their lives?

Too many variables in the OPs situation, although I completely agree with all your points. In 3 months of dating someone, you're just starting to get to know each other let alone tell them what to do. However, the OP mentioned that he was fine being with her as long as the divorce kept progressing along until being finalized. He set a boundary > boundary gets pushed > he confronts her on it.

 

[guru1000]

funny you post this. before the girl im with now, i was sleeping with a doctor who swore up and down she was divorcing her husband and things were horrible etc.


All very good points but this can easily be countered because it doesn’t take into account the persons instincts in the situation and the little details that tell you something is up

It’s like when someone does everything possible to cover their ass but you just know and feel that something isn’t right and some possibly shady shlt is going down. Maybe a girl is going through the motions of showing affection but it’s just that. Going through the motions. But yet you can feel that it’s not genuine. Our subconscious picks up on more peripheral details than you can imagine which adds up to our “instincts” and “intuition”

So while we can look from the outside and say “we’ll she hasn’t really said or acted in a way for you to hard next her” the truth is, we aren’t experiencing what the op is feeling.

I have no horse in this race, I just thought it’d be valuable to point this out for some discourse to the benefit of the forum

Exactly. Many nuances in social relations that we are not privy to to understand the full picture. Glassguy is a seasoned guy, and whether his boundary was preemptively testing (as not to waste his time) or inappropriate doesn't change the thesis of his thread, which is: When a girl violates your boundary, always walk away. This is the greater idea he intended which supersedes the "merit of boundary" counter. Though, ancillary to the main idea here, it is always prudent to examine your boundaries from time to time to see if they are truly serving your agenda.

 

[Glassguy]

So, in the OP, you stated...
1. You have been dating this girl for 3 months
a. are you in an exclusive relationship? It doesn't sound like it. And if you are after 3 months, why?
b. Do you believe at 3 months you can tell another human being how they should conduct their lives?

Exclusive as in I have kept other options around lately "just in case", but totally exclusive in her eyes. She has brought up the exclusive talks to which I have agreed that there is definite potential as long as she takes care of her business.

Its a situation that clearly had/has potential to go somewhere. Her situation only makes it harder when she isnt being somewhat "determined" to get it done. At the end of the day she is one who needs to give me the reassurance through her actions of making sure things are progressing. I dont have to do a d@mn thing except observe if she is doing that or not. Its not my divorce to take care of, but if there is a LTR on the horizon, she must do what she needs in order to progress things with me.

I dont tell people what to do. I never told her what to do. I would however give her advice on what I learned through my divorce when she asked for it. I rather choose to observe what people do and how they do it and judge them off of their actions. Not by me being forceful and telling them they have to do something. People will do what they are forced to for a short period of time, but they will do what they want for as long as they want to do it. Thats what I pay close attention to.....

You aren't leading this woman to water, you are pushing her to the fountain. The more you push, the more she will resist. Your forward approach on a very young potential relationship is likely a huge turnoff.

Again, I am not forcing her to do anything. She can go back to him tomorrow and I will start spinning plates and taking advantage of other avenues.

She was very clear on what she was going to do in the beginning (regarding her plan for divorce) and I was only questioning if she was still on that plan, and what plan B was in case plan A doesnt work. Plan A will never work because the soon to be ex husband will NEVER voluntarily sign the dissolution papers. I think the reason he doesnt want to sign them is its now his only way to attempt to manipulate her. At this point it must move to a divorce or nothing.

Whether someone clearly tells you what they intend to do, or if you are clear about what you intend to do, they are one in the same when you hold them to their word or hold your word (frame). Its one in the same. Whether she continually crosses my boundaries that I set on this or she doesnt stick the boundaries she set for her own actions on this.........frame needs to be held either way.

I didnt change my boundaries but hers started going off course. I was fine with the ones she originally set, not fine as to how they have changed over the past couple of weeks. So there are 2 choices. Go with he flow or hold frame. I took the middle ground and had an adult conversation about her course of action to which she became defensive and b1tchy. So then frame was held by me with no issue.


I was dead silent after the call. About 24 hours she was apologizing and all of a sudden had a new and improved plan in case plan A doesnt work. Now I am in the process of deciding where I want this to go, because this issue could very well come up again.

 

[Roober]

@MidnightCity and @guru1000 I agree completely. The nuances of a relationship make any situation presented on this forum highly subjective. What one person experiences could be completely different from another. But we can use the details presented to develop an objective analysis and conclusion. Frame and boundaries come after you have assessed the situation, where it seems like many of the guys here do the opposite. Do square pegs always fit into round holes? If you establish hard boundaries, then apply it to every woman, you are bound to struggle developing bonds.

So lets run through the OP details... and @Glassguy , please don't take this offensively, I am trying to look at this as objectively as possible. I have lots of respect for you and your advice! No need to answer my questions, I just hope that maybe you ponder them for a minute...

Over the past 5 years since my divorce, I have dated a lot. Granted I had a 2.5 yr relationship during that 5 years, but on a typical rotation I would have 2-4 chicks that I was talking to and actively seeing. I very much have an "outcome indifferent" outlook with plates.

Normally I am just casually dating women because I find too many things wrong with them to consider them for a LTR. Its just the way it is. I would rather be single and do what I want than be in a "relationship" with the wrong woman and still do what I want AND have to explain myself to her.

These details are irrelevant, glass is respected here and often provides sage advice. So why include this? It is like he is trying to establish crediblity? This gives insight into how he potentially doubts his actions with the woman or himself, I would see this as ego preservation. Does Trump need to tell people he is the POTUS? Does Tiger Woods need to state he is the best golfer?

I have recently been dating the same woman for the past 3 months. Attractive, well educated (doctor)

This woman definitely has a high SMV and is educated, I would guess 28-32, since I believe glass is around 36.

I was fine with that as long as things progressed to get them taken care of and moving forward

Over the past few weeks things concerning the said situation seemed to come to a halt with no progress

After being patient for some time, I more or less questioned what she was doing to keep things progressing until there was closure on it

I was crystal clear on my boundaries and expectations regarding her situation

So, this says that you have questioned her about it numerous times. Is that correct? You are a guy she is casually seeing and sexing. You've made it clear that your not BF&GF status. Does that give you the right to tell her what to do with her divorce? I don't get why it is even a topic of conversation? Do you bring it up? Does she ask, "what do you think I should do"? Or do you try to "fix" her problem? Women don't want to be fixed, they just want someone to listen. Do you know her ex-husband? Is he malicious? Does he have power over her? There are many questions here that you do not have the answer to. You are telling her what she should do without knowing the full history. Regardless of the details you know, you do not know what she is experiencing... have you ever even asked how she felt?

Feeling this coming on a couple weeks ago, I've had a few new contestants who have been hitting me up on fb, IG, etc. that I certainly didnt run off given her now passive outlook on getting her situation squared away. On top of that, I have slowly been withdrawing attention and time given to her due to her inability to aggressively take care of what she needed to take care of. So I will start setting up new dates and embrace the opportunity to meet some new faces and get back out there.

When things seem to come to an end with a chick that you truly like (for me the "truly like" part doesnt come around that often) it does suck.

What I realize, however, is that I was crystal clear on my boundaries and expectations regarding her situation, and she didnt think that I would hold frame. She was wrong and I held it. I will continue to hold it as well. I did exactly what I was supposed to do and I was clear with her about it.

Glassguy has been here before, a few times actually, and I know that when one door closes, several doors always open. Time is your most valuable commodity. You can choose to spend it where the investment makes the most sense, so spend it wisely.

When you find yourself in this situation, be a man with options and embrace it. No matter how you think a woman has "fallen for you", etc., its ALWAYS a good idea to have an option or two at your disposal (not cheating, just keeping a couple at bay as "friends" once you know they are interested).

Take a deep breath and relax......it always works out in the end.

And this is more ego preservation because I believe you are questioning yourself. You care more than she does, and it hurts. She may only see you as a fvckboy, regardless of her words, and you obviously want something more. When that belief is challenged, you put up your guard.

Now, I am not saying to go groveling and want her back. You have put your foot down, and now you have to stick with that decision. But when (or if) she comes back, maybe just avoid this divorce nonsense altogether. It seems like you care, so some amount of communication would be beneficial. If it were me, I would probably just show up at her house, slam her against the wall, and describe how I am going to punish her. Then when were done and she is completely vulnerable, you could be more clear. But by that, you need to learn proper communication.

Don't let your ego interfere with proper communication. When a woman is upset, she just wants to feel a man's strength. When she does not feel his strength, love, or passion, she will test and get angry. This is where most men begin to fail because of how we process information. We see her mood as an opportunity to fix something or take blame. We then shut down, which is the exact opposite of what she wants.

Don't draw a line in the sand, that is an ultimatum that most hate around here.
I am not generally good with words, so I won't pretend to write it out...

Mark Twain: "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"

 

[MrWood]

take her back bro...
so you can think of her stuffing another dudes cawk in her pvssy...
and from a dude she said she wants to divorce...

Silence + Distance = NC and dont look back

 

[Bingo-Player]

While I can appreciate the emotion wrapped up in your situation, let me see if I get this straight, she leaves you to decide whether or not she wants to get back with her ex, it doesn't work out (duh!!!!) and you take her back? WHY???!!! First off, you realize that if things went off without a hitch in her return engagement with the ex, your name would be a distant memory at best in her mind right? Second, that makes you second fiddle status immediately in both her mind and yours as well, you can't deny that. Third, if you did the same thing, would she take you back? Finally, and this is a guess, I bet he did sh*t to her that you wouldn't do to a farm animal, so there's that gorilla in the room. How in the hell do you justify this to yourself?

You are looking at the situation in a purely logical sense , she is not a machine neither am I …….people are allowed to have flaws and make mistakes as much as I hate to admit it I guess its something you have to accept as you become an adult

The fairytale boy meets girl and happy ever after relationships days are long gone im sorry to break it to you all ….chances are any chick you meet / date / love has had “things only a farm animal would do to her” by a guy before you , during you or after you

Similarly I have fvcked other chicks and will probably fvck other chicks in the near future …..doesnt mean to say I don’t enjoy spending time with this chick chilling out exploring etc etc

a situation I didn’t think I would find myself in but looking around me at my friends and colleagues sh1tty relationships

i really cant see what im supposed to be comparing too

the landscape between men and women is changing every day and society is so fvcked up its worrying , you just got to make the most out of the cards you are dealt, or you will become bitter and broken

 

[QuadDeuces]

You did good, take a step back and let time and space sort it out.
The pendulum of interest always swings forward and then backwards a little bit.
No need to panic.

 

[highSpeed]

You are looking at the situation in a purely logical sense , she is not a machine neither am I …….people are allowed to have flaws and make mistakes as much as I hate to admit it I guess its something you have to accept as you become an adult

The fairytale boy meets girl and happy ever after relationships days are long gone im sorry to break it to you all ….chances are any chick you meet / date / love has had “things only a farm animal would do to her” by a guy before you , during you or after you

Similarly I have fvcked other chicks and will probably fvck other chicks in the near future …..doesnt mean to say I don’t enjoy spending time with this chick chilling out exploring etc etc

a situation I didn’t think I would find myself in but looking around me at my friends and colleagues sh1tty relationships

i really cant see what im supposed to be comparing too

the landscape between men and women is changing every day and society is so fvcked up its worrying , you just got to make the most out of the cards you are dealt, or you will become bitter and broken

I"m not disagreeing with you, I was looking at this situation more from a potential relationship perspective, not from a toy perspective. If he's simply going to treat her like a toy, that definitely works for him and at that point, that's all that matters. If he's going to consider her for an actual relationship, that's where the problem comes in. And honestly? I think most women prefer it that way. Treating them like a delicate princess? I think a lot of women would tell you that's what they want but in reality, they want you to do sh*t to them you wouldn't do to a farm animal, they just want a nice dinner afterwards so they can justify that you didn't simply use them and throw them away. It's more of a trading and act for resources, as long as you give up some type of resources, they're usually fine with it. I had to really work on that in my mind to get over that hurdle. I started out with the disney princess idea and realized it doesn't work.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

Why don't you show us pictures of the girls that you spend/waste years of your time with, Mr. "Super Player"?

You scared?