Recovering AFC has epiphany after 20 years but still needs help

[salinechow]

O.K Gentlemen here goes. My story. It should be quite identifiable for some of you in AFC recovery but also I still need help and encouragements.

I have been an AFC for 20 Years. When in high school I was constantly put in the friend zone over and over. Even by chicks that were beneath me. I was in the popular crowd, was not shy, was not ugly and actually hung out with the hottest girls in school no problem. Had them over my house alone, everything. So many missed opportunities I can’t even count. I didn’t have my first kiss till 11thgrade. And, this fact starts to play into my recent epiphany and why I want to share my story with you all. This forum is saving my life, not just with girls but with inner self as well.

My epiphany comes from my most recent heart stomp. (more on that in a bit) I found this forum and it gave me clarity on what I have been doing wrong my whole life. Also, though, what and why certain things worked. My first girlfriend was amazing. (whom I thought was my one and only love and I carried a torch for her for 12! years) I only NOW see why. It wasn’t true love. I loved her so much because it was a relationship where I was naturally NOT an AFC! Why? She looked up to me. I was an upperclassmen. I was popular. I was into the fun and bad boy drug scene. I was mysterious and I was a leader inside our world and out. She knew she was replaceable at any time given all the attention I received. Even though I never would have dreamed of it, she thought it. Yet, like you boys say, once you have it you let down your guard and that mushy center gets exposed. I graduated and she started to see the real me. The me that was always there without her perceptions. My alpha status faded. Then when I knew I was starting to lose her I panicked. As you all well know the end would not be far from that time. She even cheated on me right before. Then I pined for her for 12 years! Equating every relationship to that one and not ever really knowing why. What I know now, is I was seeking an Alpha status I didn’t even know I had at the time. That is what felt so good. That is what was irreplaceable.
Next girl I acquired with ease. Despite my inner heartbreak I was still me, charming, fresh, and in this situation the new guy in town. I made fast friends with guys first and I ended up on the radar of the hottest girl in a new school. ( I had to go back for gym glasses haha) A quick note: You know why it was so easy to land her? To me, she wasn’t the hottest girl in school because I didn’t grow up there PEDESTALING her like all the other chumps! It is so easy to see now that I found all of you men and this great resource. I swept her up and she moved in with me shortly after. I dated her for 4 long years. Again, I was still the Alpha in this relationship but it would be the last time in a string of ones to follow. This girl would do anything for me. Cook, clean, pay, sex anytime, chasing, chasing, chasing, my affection. Want to know why? It is because she knew I loved the previous girl! Sounds ****ty right? It was. I tortured the poor girl. Might have even been the one that got away. I actually still talk to her regularly 10 years later. She is a good buddy actually. You guys may beg to differ.
Now, every single relationship after her was an AFC textbook of misery. I doted upon each girl after that. Maybe I felt bad for how badly I treated girl #2. Maybe I was just a diehard romantic (I am). Mostly though, I am sure it had some to do with my growing insecurities in life. I have realized over the last two weeks of reading the forum this very important fact. LISTEN UP!!!! Having a woman in your life, even ones that live with you, DOES NOT MEAN you HAVE the woman! Each one of these chicks withheld sex. Flaked inside relationships. Made me pay even when they knew full well they made more money than me. Im talking even shared bills here as well as other stuff. Looking back, I am sick over it. Yet, I am glad because now I am transforming because of this fine forum. Here is a list of the abuse. It will help illustrate to you younger Dons why you need to listen to these Masters before you burn over a decade of your life and have to start again at 33. Ill nickname the chicks...cont

 

[salinechow]

cont

Dasiel: 1.5 years. Slept with me maybe 15 times in the whole relationship. Defiantly a BPD. Cheated on me at the end.

Sinderella: 3 Weeks. Had an amazing romance that burned out of control. Showed all my cards right away and she went back to an abusive boyfriend. What does that tell you boys? They want a chase more than love. They want mystery more than compassion. They want a man to fvck them, not a hallmark card. LISTEN to me! I am a master AFC. If I couldn’t make it work, you stand no chance. I am smarter than you at being a chump. I am more romantic then you could ever be. I am more charming than you will ever be. I am nicer and more gracious then you will ever be. I assure you. And if I couldn’t make it work, you will never. AFC, buying gifts, flowers, compliments for no reason, thoughtfulness, selfless ness is the road to destruction!!!!! You will lose! Save it for your wife! When a good girl earns it go ahead and let it leak out. For now though, you are not reading this website for your marital problems. KILL that AFC bullsh!T with fire! Drown it. KILL it. If you don’t it is killing you. Listen to these men here. It is your life preserver. I am so grateful, but it must be applied, not just studied.

Rachel the Horrible: 1.5 years. Hot! And absolutely horrible. Some BPD traits. Lies. Manipulation. Had a kid. Also horrible. Used her money and her body to keep me. Cheated on me twice maybe more. I cried a lot through the hot and cold. I died a little inside when I finally manned up and left forever. However, I grew too. Stopped doing drugs. Just pot really. Started volunteering. But did I stop AFCing? A little. I was scared. But that creamy center has a way of oozing back out.

1 Night Stand. I was nervous. I felt bad for her that she was so easy. I was even trying to white knight this chick while inside of her! WTF guys. This AFC **** is a disease. Worse than the ones I thought I caught from this chick. Luckily I did not.

The 7 Year *****: Really. She wasn’t a ***** per say. She was just the ice queen. Yet, guess what boys, besides her introverted personality it was my fault. I was constantly seeking her validation of my wit, humor, work ethic, status, looks, sex, but steadfastly she withheld. Always! The more I sought it the colder it got. Guess what else? She was a 4/10 maybe a 5 in the right light. If it means anything, I am a 7.5 maybe better given blue eyes, a nice smile and being funny. The reason I say so is this, its not to validate myself to you. It is to illustrate another point. A wise person, actually two people have told me this; in EVERY relationship there is a pursuer and a persuee. Every relationship! Parents, friends, work, everything. Sometimes it cannot be helped and you must assume the role you are given…BUT never!!! be the pursuer in a romantic relationship! You must understand through every step that YOU are the prize. It goes back to everything that has been laid out here at this great website and I am here to learn and confirm what I have learned already. By the way, the two individuals that coached me in the pursuer/ pursuee dynamic are both Columbia and Stanford graduates of psychology and human interaction. So fuc#in listen up. You just got a half of a million dollars in advice in one sentence. If you are a recovering AFC like me, here is a good start. Do the opposite of everything you think you should do. Want to send a text? Flush your Goshdamn phone down the toilet. Want to send her flowers? Take a karate class with the money instead. Or send them to your mom, aunt, sister. Hell they might know someone to hook you up with. Want to be her friend for a while and win her heart with your wisdom and charm, go rob a bank instead, because at least that prison might be kinder to your heart and be worth the risk! (please don’t participate in any crimes you idiots unless you want to be a girlfriend instead of get one)
Me and this last girl stayed together for 7 fuc#ing years. We got along ok actually. Never fought and were good roomates. We liked to gamble together and go fishing and had the same friends. Guess why? Because we were FRIENDS! No romance. No massages. No sex. No connection. Is that what you want so you can say you have a girlfriend?! I certainly hope not. I just thought after all the drama I had before her that at least normal and even keel was worth me dying. That is not a understatement. I was dying on the outside because I got fat, had terrible anxiety and heartburn. I was obviously dying on the inside as well. Starving and withering slowly. Then, she left me. Know what. I was relieved. Guess what else? I woke the fuct up too. I got in the gym, redid my apartment, got a new car and started to focus pleasing myself instead of pleasing the unpleasable. As that happened, ALL my physical ailments went away. Being a beta can KILL you people. I cannot stress that enough. I have a medical background and still didn’t realize it. LISTEN to me. I implore you! Stop chasing! Stop perusing! It will kill you AND kill who really are. Realize your potential. We are all good at something. I settled for a 4/10. If you think you are a geek, ugly, unskilled or downright undesirable, you are dead wrong. Because when you start to awaken and listen to these men of wisdom, your girl will find and pursue YOU. If you think you are a 4/10 but you carry yourself as a 10 she will “settle” for you and will peruse you. Girls you wouldn’t dream of approaching will find you Mr. Geek and worship you. Yeah, you may never have the best looks, but when you are confident in yourself, you will win with other things. Musical talent, maybe money, maybe even knowing about physics or nuclear fusion because Ill tell you what, there are a lot of HB9s that are geeks and insecure and waiting for YOU! Focus inwards now. Get to the gym. Get some new threads. Study the material here. It will come.
Learn from my years. Please don’t suffer. Listen to the Dons. They are selflessly trying to save you. Like me. Like I am. We are in this together.

And lastly, why I am here. What broke me for good. What finally awoken me to make myself better for being put on pedestal instead the other way around. I actually am still hurt by this so comments and advice will be welcomed. Despite my realizations I have put forth here I am still having trouble taking my own advice...

 

[salinechow]

cont...

Lie-lytte: O my gosh did this one hurt. Met her on Tinder. (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Guess we must never underestimate the power of denial) Spoke slowly for about a week inside the app chat. She was cold at first but warmed to me through a music connection and that I stood out from the creeps. Then, we called and spoke for 11 hrs on the phone! Next night 5hrs! leading up to a total of about 30 hrs in about 8 days before we met. MISTAKE #1 Eventually, we simultaneously asked each other out. We met in the city and I made the best date any two people ever had. Picnic in the park. Great music. Kissing. Drinking. Then I invited myself to drive her home and promptly got the invite to the apartment. Hooked up all night and left at 3am. She actually pouted when I left. All a game people. All a game.
Next day, we spoke. Of course, here it started. Distant, cold, almost *****y. I made excuses for her that she was tired. A>F>C.
Next day, hot again. Texting. Sending music and lyrics back and forth. Lovy dovey sh!t. I mean this girl was a HB9. Yoga guru. Petite. Fun. Funny. And I was shocked how into me she was. Sending texts about how I made her feel alive. How she couldn’t stop thinking of me. How I was perfect for her. How she waited her whole life to meet me and I gave her hope again.
Nope. She was into the game. She was into the chase. I knew, somewhere in my subconscious that everytime she pulled back so should I, and it worked like a charm. Yet, the true AFC in me always was front and center ready to fVck it up again when she warmed up. So sad.
Then I lost my phone while surfing. What happened? She freaked out. When I finally got my phone back I saw texts about how “Well, that’s one way to get rid of a person” Stuff like that. I was so nervous I had lost her. So, I decided the best thing to do would be pretend I never saw the texts. (see I am not all bad at this, but winning battles and losing the war means squat) I invited myself up to her place and made her the greatest dinner ever. Music and drinking again. Then sex. Hrs of sex. Some of you are probably already beginning to see the signs here. I had no idea till I came here though what was really going on. TEXTBOOK BPD. I spent the night. How about this too guys. Maybe some of you could shed some light on this.I couldn’t cOme. In three hrs. She seemed to love it. Then she wondered about it. And actually I was so exhausted at one point I told her to get on top and she proceeded to scold me because I stopped “ Don’t stop! Are you teasing me or something” she said. After that I completely lost my hard on. Also, throughout these power sessions with this girl I only was able to climax once. Actually the last time I ever slept with her. Its because I had to slow her down and do my thing. She wanted to rough and deep it was tiring and kind of boring actually. Also, I am no slouch. I am packin a decent unit but this girl was just, I don’t know…She was flexiable and so willing and never dried up or anything. She could just take it and climax over and over. I would love to hear your guys deconstruction of this. I mean she had her fun a couple of times. Even if she faked 1 or 2 which I doubt, she still showed all the real signs plenty of times. P.S Know what she said to me that night? She said” You know, I really like you but sometimes after I get physical with a guy, I get bored” Whoa! Red flag guys or what. Yet, I thought I would be immune because she was falling in love with me and love concurs all right? IDIOT! Please help me!

 

[salinechow]

the ending and questions

Next morning I go surfing. She is lukewarm. So, therefore I am also. Then, a text. It was my birthday weekend. She asks to come spend it with me. Of course I agree . Everything goes great. Music. Wine. Lots of sex. Next day she leaves. Texting beautiful quotes and pictures. I go out with my father that night and get hammered for my birthday. I fall asleep without texting her. And a snarky fury of texts pour in. I wake up at 2am and I apologize to her through text and wish her well with some lovey stuff.

Following day… a complete *****. I call her out on it. Tell her it makes me feel ****ty and that after a 7 year ***** I am not willing to tolerate it. She calls me out on not saying goodnight to her and disappearing the night before. We hang up on crappy terms, immediately followed by her texting me really nice things. I hope you guys are seeing this the way I do now. Go read about BPD if you don’t.
Next couple of days are the same. Lukewarm texts but great conversations. With a few nights of Im going to bed early texts so lets not talk.
Then, I go up to see her again. What do I do while I am up there waiting for her to get off work. I buy her a coffee maker and sheets for her bed. This girl makes 150k a year. Will somebody please hit me with an anvil? I make her a beautiful meal. Music. Drinking. And then she says it “I shouldn’t say this when Im drinking but I Love You to Pieces.” I am dumbfounded. I cant even, in my AFC heart find it to say back. Which, ends up being a good thing. She Fvcks my brains out. Everywhere. Everywhere I was willing anyway. Every way I was willing too. I was still kind of timid about it. Sh!tty AFC mentality.
Next morning, asks me to take out her dog and then starts with the lukewarm texts after I leave. I am kinda getting used to this by now so I just don’t even let it bother me. I follow suit. After the next day or so of talking and texting we schedule her coming to see me for the full weekend. Fri. night we are both exhausted and I give her a full body rub down and put her to bed. Sat morning. She demands that she has to do yoga or she will be cranky, so I set her up in my living room and let her at it and I leave and go to the gym.
When I got back from the gym she was in ***** mode. I asked to join her in the shower and she said no. I asked her if she wanted to eat breakfast and she said no. So we went to the dog park with the two dogs. She was mostly cold and tough the whole time. On a beautiful day in a beautiful place doing something really nice she was being *****y. Then down at the water in a picturesque setting I pulled her close and told her”Now I can say I love you” She took a second and said it back. But I knew it was not sincere. Sparing the rest of every detail of the weekend we had a great night out and she seemed to be warming again. When we got home though we were both too full and tired and pretty drunk. No sex. Sunday she is really *****y maybe the most yet. Wants very little to do with me and leaves abruptly saying she wants to go home and shower and go for a run because she feels dirty. She lives 1:20 min away by the way. Texts were very banal afterwards and I even tried to flirt with her saying I couldn’t wait to fvck her again up against her wall since we missed out on the weekend. No love of course. Then she says she is going to bed a 6pm at night. I call. She is a ***** and starts making excuses why we wont see each other that week.
Monday night: We speak. Its lighthearted but I bring up that it feels as though she is pulling away now. She confirms and asks for her space. “A lot” of space. We talked about it for 2hrs. But the short of it was, I told her if she needed space and couldn’t define what that was I would not be talking or seeing her anymore. It felt like a break up to me and that’s what I wanted. Then she started the back peddle. “Well what about being friends”? “Will you answer if I call or text” I told her no.

Very next morning, bright and early, I get a text about unconditional love. I did not respond. 2 days later she texts”” So you are just never going to speak to me again?” I don’t respond. She calls me 3hrs later. I answer and allow her to try and work things out with me. She was mad because she went on birth control for me and now I wasn’t speaking to her. Also, and this is a BIG part of the dynamic that I would love advice on. She was leaving the country for 8 days for work followed by 3 days home and then 16 days away again. I told her that if she wanted to call me to flirt with me, be fun, and have deep talks like we used to I would answer but I was not interested in her hot cold bull**** anymore. I was also not interested in just being her friend. I even told her I didn’t care if she was seeing or interested in other people, maybe she needed that, but I told her to be honest with me if she had unprotected sex(we did) and that I was going to do the same because even if we decided to see eachother and other people we needed to consider sexual safety. I had already started to talk to other girls myself and she could sense that. She was the one I wanted though and she knew that too. The following fri night I went out to a friends house. She calls and I am very cold to her. I tell her I know exactly what she wants “ She wants space, patience with her, understanding of her schedule and that she has a huge problem with intamicy and commitment”. She agrees that I understand her well and asks if I am willing to provide her with that. I tell her Ill think about it and I am undecided. Silence follows. Then she asks what am I thinking and I tell her that I need to go be with my buddies. She is shocked and annoyed. She is flying out the next day for 8 days. I tell her to have a safe trip and if she thinks of anything else to text me. * minutes later she texts me a picture of her apartment with all the candles lit like we used to do. I respond an hour later with a smiley smirk. The next day she calls me 3 times during every step of her departure. Each time ending with “can I call you back” and finally setting up a way over FB messenger so that she can talk to me while she is away. While she was away she called me and texted me everyday. She was distant and short on the phone though. Then on her final weekend away she disappeared and was actually back on Tinder! The moment she landed back home she texted me. I texted back a dig at her and she said “Well I guess so then” The whole time she was back in the states we did not talk or text. By now I had found this website and started the NC rule. I caved though when she was at the airport and called her by her nickname and wished her safe travels in a text.
She thanked me and I have not heard from her in 3 weeks.

So. What was that all about boys? What do I do?

Can I try for the Fvck buddy implementing what I know and am learning here? I know if I use what I have learned here she will respond well to it. She told me the whole time she wanted someone confident and strong. She even was blown away when I told her I didn’t care if she saw other people cause I would do the same. She said I have never met someone as confident and bold as you and I don’t know what to do with it. This girl wants a Don, but am I ready? Or is the AFC still to strong. Could it be practice if I accept what I am getting into?

Should I try “friends” with her to gain some insight and feedback?

Or. And this is tough. Should I just rip up her fVcking number? NC forever.

So there you have it. Real life. We are all in this together. I am eternally grateful for the site. Please give me any and all feedback. I also hope I helped someone else.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

...How long was she on birth control for during your relationship?

 

[salinechow]

Birth Control Question

She was on it for 15 years. Then went off of it for like 2-3 months she said. After we started sleeping together and had a brief conversation about it she decided to go back on it. We only slept together again twice after that. When she decided to "i need more space" me, she said she was fustrated with me because I just stopped talking with her and she felt cut off after decideing to go back on it for me. I think there are two other wild cards here I didnt mention. She has an ex that lives close by to where she would be visiting for the 16 day trip. I brought that up with her that I thought the birth control thing was in part due to her meeting up with him again while she was away.(coupled with the fact that right before her trips is when she started to distance herself the most) She empatically denied it of course. I told her I didnt care either way but it what I thought. She was frustrated with that and yelled at me that she "Did it for me" Anyway, the second thing is she said being off BC was making her depressed and although she didnt want to go back on it originally I think that may have played into her decsion.
Now that the trip is over(she actually lands today) I dont know that I believe she did in fact see him (the ex). Yet, Ill tell you this, she definitely has other people she is talking with on facebook and whats app.Could be anybody, but if I know her its some guy(s) she is interested in or male orbiters. Just like she was talking to me everyday on her first trip. I have not her from her. She was actually on Tinder for the first few days in fuking east asia for god sakes! Maybe drummed up some old flame from before me maybe and then moved it to FB or Whats App.

Why did you ask that though I am curious?

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Because I dated a girl once who was all bubbly and had a high libido... and then she started taking birth control and her mood/attitude/libido changed. I've heard that's a very common side effect, and based on how your story was going it sounded like maybe she started taking a certain kind of birth control that changed up her hormones. I'm not saying this means she would have otherwise been a good choice for you - I don't - but it could be an explanation..

 

[salinechow]

Thanks

Thank you for the reply.
Yeah. I have a medical background and have seen the changes in other girls I have dated. Both going on and off the BC pill.
Any other analysis of the play for this girl? I have been on 5 dates since and I am talking with a least 6 other women, including the infancy of some long plays. Yet, this girl ticked all my boxes in a way I have not ever felt as well as could have imagined feeling. Despite her hang ups and game playing this girl showed me her real guts before she got scared or unattracted to me or turned off or whatever she decided. Also, somewhere I know I touched her in a real way as well? I just can’t seem to replace that or the level of physical attraction. Right down to her petite size and her accent and her squeaky voice. I am on 22 days of NC but am not fully convinced of its merit considering we only dated and talked for like 5 weeks. Errrggg.

 

[Çharismo]

Look brah! This hot and cold stuff is textbook...women get like that. You basically could have set up a fvck buddy situation with this chick but you were too love dovey with her. I don't think you are an AFC to the max but try not to fall for woman too fast...as in don't fall in love with women too fast. It's preached on this website protect your heart so you don't get attached to any woman unless she meets the criteria required. Other than that there isn't much to tell you except to just stay no contact and move forward. :flowers:

As for the other women just move forward because as long as you are acknowledging your mistakes and are learning from them that's all that matters. That was in the past you must look to the future.

Read the DJ Bible and absorb as much information as you can. Read more post less. You can also use the search function to look up other topics that people have posted and learn that way as well.

Keep the pimp hand strong!!:rockon:

 

[Anargyros]

this is good stuff