real life differing from DJ advice on girls with BFs

[ne0phyte]

i just wanted to hear you master DJs thoughts on some things that have happened at my school. So in my master's program, all of the hot girls had bfs coming at the start of the year. 2 of my friends recently got girls with bfs to branch swing to them, but they did it in a seemingly "afc" way.

the advice i got from this forum was to not be in the friendzone (show interest and walk away), be the alpha, don't always be available, live your own life, and date other girls in the mean time (show them that you're desirable and not needy).

with a desire to shed the afc in me, this is what I tried following to a T. Because the girl i was interested in was in my social circle, I couldn't ask her out and walk away. I dated another girl (made my target jealous and want my attention more). I flirted with her, and mixed it up with being aloof/busy. But I always was courteous when I pulled away (giving girls the rollercoaster of emotion is good, right?). but with this whole push/pull, i haven't gotten anywhere. lately, I have been distant, and while she is still trying to hang out with me, she plays the ignoring game on me too. purposefully doesn't pick up or respond to my texts and never mentioning it. (wasn't calling/texting to hang out, but for mundane school related stuff ie, hey what time does class start tomorrow?)

on the other hand, both of my friends spent all their free time studying and hanging out with their targets, talking about stuff/relationships, and generally just showing them that they're completely available should the girl break up with ther bf (no challenge). yet they're the ones with the girls, and not me. both these guys are my close friends, and they both said they didn't cheat/make a move, that the girls just made themselves available to them.

how can you guys explain this? it's kinda driving me mad, since that's what afc me would have done (try to turn a friend into a lover). did I go too far with the ignoring/push/pull? was I just not a better catch than her current BF? I told myself to move on from this girl, but i'm just really interested in learning what to do in these situations.

 

[Veridin]

Remember, two examples do not a study make. While there are always examples with different outcomes, in general it is true that you have a much lower chance of getting a girl by being an orbiter.

Why you didn't get the girl is not possible to answer. It could be any number of reasons. And no matter how well we keep good advice in mind, there are always other factors that influence the outcome.

The advice here at SS is good advice, but it is generally microing. People sometimes forget the macro. For example (not talking about you now neophyte), a guy who is scrawny or overweight should work on building muscles or losing fat, and then he'll see the micro serve him much better, as if by magic.

Also, a girl's earlier experiences play in, her genes play in, other things going on in her life right now play in, etc. The NORMAL outcome is to not get the girl. Just like you usually don't catch a fish when you throw out the line. That's why you have to try many times.

 

[Igetit!]

Well first of all,I 100% agree with Verdin. You have to understand that in dealing with women,we're dealing with PEOPLE,emotional ones at that.

This isn't math or science where you have DEFINATE right and wrong answers. Math is predictable. Square root of 9 is 3.....ALWAYS,100% of the time.

Square root of 16 is 4....ALWAYS. Three months from now it'll still be the same.


If you ask me can you get out of the friendzone,I'm going to say no. But you know what? Some guy somewhere has gotten out of it before.


It's common knowledge on the forum that if a girl asks you to buy her a drink to turn her down. But you know what? Some guy somewhere bought the drink and still got the girl.


The rules on the forum are just guidelines,they're not concrete. We say that confidence is a MUST to winning a girl over,but guess what? Some guy was confident in his approach and DIDN'T get the girl.


And another guy was probably nervous,scared,and shaking in his boot during an approach,and still got the girl.


There'll ALWAYS BE situations and circumstances where a guy followed everything the forum suggested and didn't get the girl,or broke every Sosuave rule in the book and did get the girl,but the forum rules/suggestions put the odds in your favor.



Being a girl's "orbitor" GREATLY DECREASES your chances of dating her,but out of the 6.5 billion people on the planet now,and of the billions who have ever lived,yeah,I'm sure some chick somewhere got with an orbitor.


There'll always be exceptions to the rules,but the rules are rules for a REASON. If you want to try to get a girl by being that "exception" rather than adhereing to the guidelines given here,you can.


It's kinda like trying to pay your rent,car payment,groceries and utilities by winning the lottery instead of having a job and a steady paycheck.

It's not that it can't be done,I mean somebody somewhere did win the lottery and pay all those things with the money they won,but come on.


If you want to go by chance,fortune,luck,or by being the "exception",well hey man,I still wish you the best. We'd all like to win the lotto,and if it happens,then cool,but I think most of us are going to do the 9 to 5 thing WHILE WAITING for that ship to come in.

i just wanted to hear you master DJs thoughts on some things that have happened at my school. So in my master's program, all of the hot girls had bfs coming at the start of the year. 2 of my friends recently got girls with bfs to branch swing to them, but they did it in a seemingly "afc" way.

Damn. Neophyte.....dude,you're still hung up on that one girl?

That ONE girl,the one you've made at least 4 to 5 threads about over the span of three + months,the one who's ALREADY dating someone else.


You saw two other guys get girls who they've been "friends" with,and since everything else you've done has failed in your attempts to get this girl,you've now decided to try this.



Well I'm sure telling you to move on will fall deaf ears,therefore,this thing you saw happen with these other guys..... do it. Give it a try. You want to get in the friendzone/be one of her orbitors and try to "woo" her from there?


Ok,well go for it. It's against forum rules,and I don't think ANYBODY wouldn't suggest it,but all the logic,reason,good advice and sound council is no match for a man possessed with oneitis.


I'm not trying to be a smart-alek here,I'm serious. Go ahead and try what you have in mind.

on the other hand, both of my friends spent all their free time studying and hanging out with their targets, talking about stuff/relationships, and generally just showing them that they're completely available should the girl break up with ther bf (no challenge). yet they're the ones with the girls, and not me. both these guys are my close friends, and they both said they didn't cheat/make a move, that the girls just made themselves available to them.

If what they did worked for them,then try it.

Thing is,there are SO MANY different variables here,it's hard to know what all exactly went down. I mean you didn't follow them around 24/7,so who knows what other things went on that triggered the girl's interest.


You didn't see the inner workings here,only the finished product.


Go ahead and try out this "afc" route you'd like to do. Odds are it won't work,but since you're bent on having this girl,then go all out dude.

 

[ne0phyte]

haha i realize i do have oneitis for this girl. believe me, i'm been trying to get away from her. it's just that after what happened with my friends, it makes it harder to do so. to use your lottery analogy, it's like watching friends win the lottery by buying one ticket, while i'm talking with investment gurus and getting great advice, then watching my stocks/investments go no where. it's just frustrating is all i'm saying. school's going to be done in a month, and it'll be good to get away from her for at least the summer

 

[scribblec]

Well first of all,I 100% agree with Verdin. You have to understand that in dealing with women,we're dealing with PEOPLE,emotional ones at that.

This isn't math or science where you have DEFINATE right and wrong answers. Math is predictable. Square root of 9 is 3.....ALWAYS,100% of the time.

Square root of 16 is 4....ALWAYS. Three months from now it'll still be the same.


If you ask me can you get out of the friendzone,I'm going to say no. But you know what? Some guy somewhere has gotten out of it before.


It's common knowledge on the forum that if a girl asks you to buy her a drink to turn her down. But you know what? Some guy somewhere bought the drink and still got the girl.


The rules on the forum are just guidelines,they're not concrete. We say that confidence is a MUST to winning a girl over,but guess what? Some guy was confident in his approach and DIDN'T get the girl.


And another guy was probably nervous,scared,and shaking in his boot during an approach,and still got the girl.


There'll ALWAYS BE situations and circumstances where a guy followed everything the forum suggested and didn't get the girl,or broke every Sosuave rule in the book and did get the girl,but the forum rules/suggestions put the odds in your favor.



Being a girl's "orbitor" GREATLY DECREASES your chances of dating her,but out of the 6.5 billion people on the planet now,and of the billions who have ever lived,yeah,I'm sure some chick somewhere got with an orbitor.


There'll always be exceptions to the rules,but the rules are rules for a REASON. If you want to try to get a girl by being that "exception" rather than adhereing to the guidelines given here,you can.


It's kinda like trying to pay your rent,car payment,groceries and utilities by winning the lottery instead of having a job and a steady paycheck.

It's not that it can't be done,I mean somebody somewhere did win the lottery and pay all those things with the money they won,but come on.


If you want to go by chance,fortune,luck,or by being the "exception",well hey man,I still wish you the best. We'd all like to win the lotto,and if it happens,then cool,but I think most of us are going to do the 9 to 5 thing WHILE WAITING for that ship to come in.






Damn. Neophyte.....dude,you're still hung up on that one girl?

That ONE girl,the one you've made at least 4 to 5 threads about over the span of three + months,the one who's ALREADY dating someone else.


You saw two other guys get girls who they've been "friends" with,and since everything else you've done has failed in your attempts to get this girl,you've now decided to try this.



Well I'm sure telling you to move on will fall deaf ears,therefore,this thing you saw happen with these other guys..... do it. Give it a try. You want to get in the friendzone/be one of her orbitors and try to "woo" her from there?


Ok,well go for it. It's against forum rules,and I don't think ANYBODY wouldn't suggest it,but all the logic,reason,good advice and sound council is no match for a man possessed with oneitis.


I'm not trying to be a smart-alek here,I'm serious. Go ahead and try what you have in mind.




If what they did worked for them,then try it.

Thing is,there are SO MANY different variables here,it's hard to know what all exactly went down. I mean you didn't follow them around 24/7,so who knows what other things went on that triggered the girl's interest.


You didn't see the inner workings here,only the finished product.


Go ahead and try out this "afc" route you'd like to do. Odds are it won't work,but since you're bent on having this girl,then go all out dude.

solid advice as always, sometimes i doubt the age u have up

 

[zekko]

I flirted with her, and mixed it up with being aloof/busy. But I always was courteous when I pulled away (giving girls the rollercoaster of emotion is good, right?). but with this whole push/pull, i haven't gotten anywhere. lately, I have been distant, and while she is still trying to hang out with me, she plays the ignoring game on me too. purposefully doesn't pick up or respond to my texts and never mentioning it

Face it, a lot of the advice here is garbage. You're playing these games with her, so she is naturally playing them back. For indifference to be effective, she either has to be attracted to you in the first place, or there has to be something else about you that's attracting her, or she has to be an AW. Otherwise, why should she care about you being indifferent?

Meanwhile, your buddies were being genuine with their girls and doing what came naturally. You may call them AFC, but they made their interest plainly known and went after what they wanted (which is a masculine trait).

Also, your oneitis is working against you, that will usually make you start behaving oddly around her. It's probably already too late for you, but have you even tried asking this girl out? Touched her, tried to kiss her? As opposed to playing all these DJ games with her?

 

[Bonafide]

Thats what you get for letting immature boys advise you on how to live your life. But don't fear, you are learning young grass hopper, you will soon see the truth.

 

[comic_relief]

The problem with advice here while it good and works 90% of the time. It is ONLY theoretical and must be tweaked once you get your head around the game.

I never go by a straight and narrow definition. I take what works for me and throw the rest away. For example, I never wait for a girl to ask me to be boyfriend and girlfriend. I just do it when I know I got the girl :flowers: Thats what happened last night and yes, everything worked out wonderfully for me and her :rockon:

After you have an idea of how the game works (been here for seven years) than you tweak it to make it work for you :woo:

- comic_relief

 

[ne0phyte]

I'm definitely here to learn. thanks again you guys for helping me sort it out. this was more of a rant than anything. it was just frustrating to find out how two of my friends got what they wanted in a way that seemed pretty straightforward. i understand that this DJ stuff isn't a gaurantee, that you have to take what works for you and leave out the rest. the issue is since I'm new to this, it's better (i think at least) to learn/try all of the game before I start modifying stuff. but I'm learning, and i know eventually I'll have a style that suits myself.

as for this girl, she's always been on the backburner. i've learned enough that I shouldn't be missing out on other girls just to wait for this one. but at this point, with the whole push/pull stuff I've done, we're pretty much just angry at each other. I've established value and comfort with her, but lately i've just been giving her the cold shoulder and not giving her any attention (always telling her I'm busy). i doubt i can salvage anything from this. but hey, making mistakes is the way to learn.

 

[ne0phyte]

double post

 

[IamJosan]

Your friends didn't get the girls AT ALL! They're just friends! I call and hang out with my girl friends all the time because they're my friends and I'm not trying to seduce them or make them like me. So if these guys are there all the time and being friends, then that's what they've become. They're just friends.

But then you also gotta make a move and get a number or something. If not, you're just gonna be that 'guy' from class.

 

[zekko]

as for this girl, she's always been on the backburner. i've learned enough that I shouldn't be missing out on other girls just to wait for this one. but at this point, with the whole push/pull stuff I've done, we're pretty much just angry at each other.

Sounds like you had her too far back on the backburner.

I remember when I was a young man, there was no DJ forum (heck, we didn't even have an internet). I would mess up with a girl by not paying her enough attention, then decide I would take the opposite approach. Then I would go too far in the other direction and mess up that way. After awhile you find the right balance, or what the pickup gurus call calibration. Of course some girls require more or less attention than others, so it's never an exact science.

I think that any young man is going to go through this process of finding that balance, DJ forum or not. The more socially awkward you are, the more you need the process. And I was very socially awkward when I started.

 

[Veridin]

i understand that this DJ stuff isn't a gaurantee, that you have to take what works for you and leave out the rest.

It's like traffic school. The tips work, and should be included in your driving style. But of course you have to think for yourself and adapt to every situation.