Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

reading between the lines (long)

86

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UPDATE

I basically sent her an email back calling her out on a few things, (thanks to Sir_Chancealot for the inspiration on that one), and of course she REPLIED BACK:

So, I was very entertained. That is hilarious! I have paid more for
concerts I have enjoyed less:) You have a temper, I see. So, here's food for thought. Gold digger, huh? How do you know I'm not independently wealthy and tired of gold diggers myself?

Well in the South, there are certain social rules. I was just giving you the heads up on what goes on around here as far a dating
goes. You obviously don't have a sister:), because guys with a sister can take a straight conversation from a women with out making them insecure. Didn't mean for you to go there. So don't let it ruin your other
prospects.

This has been great. It's my first on online argument. Very interesting. Remember...It's not about gold digging here. It's a way a lot of guys are raised to show they respect women down here. It's just a huge a social/ culture thing. I never bothered with it before,
but guys who can't recognize the standard and it's importance have a difficult time with opinionated women I've found. It's a rule on women down here. If you're good looking, well off, and educated, you've got
opinions. Look, don't take it personally, like I said I REALLY liked everything about you, but you have to relize...

Sometimes unemployment *(she is unemployed) is really a great disguise. It's not about the money for me. It's about one standard that is uniquely southern. It's a social way of weeding out gold-digging guys. Men that aren't insulted by it, usually don't care what a person has or doesn't have. To be straight I'm in no way a gold digger, if I was you would never have met me, I have a billionaire friend I could have married years ago.

You haven't been victimized. So cheer up. To be Zen, it's like you have this great laundry and you accidently got a red sock lost in it:) So now everything is this weird shade of pink. I don't have any bleach I can give you, but I can tell you, you need bleach, and to not be upset. Everything's fixable, but you need to be the one to go get it, because it's your laundry.
Translation: If I am the one to tell you about southern dating, you kill me - the messenger, but after you think about it, when the next chick comes along you'll be like "OH, I know what this is! It's that southern dating thing". It's a way of letting chicks know down here you aren't
just in it for sex. Unless you are just in it for sex and I've been wrong. IGNORE ALL IF THAT'S THE CASE:)

By the way, I have encountered many gold diggers myself, so it was refreshing to know you had your own life. Too bad we couldn't compromise on how to actually date. It's
really funny if you think about it. Think about it from the humor aspect. This was not as you have percieved it. Next time, take the time to debate an issue before you jump to conclusions. Life is much happier when you debate things. It's interesting and clearer. Hope I cleared things
up for you, and you feel better...Thanks for the laugh, you're pretty fiesty, but I hope
you're really not as mean as you sounded. See ya'



AND HERE IS MY REPLY TO THAT LOAD OF SEWAGE:

:D Heh heh trust me on this one -- you are not the sole inspiration of my email. But I'm flattered that you chose to take time out of your day to check it out. :) As of late, I have been dating/meeting quite a few people and decided to clarify a few things up... Now, if you remembered anything I may have told you, you should know that I have lived in the south all my life. My parents are the original 'Yankees', as they are sometimes called by southern folk. As far as the whole 'southern by-laws and standards of confederate courtship' thing goes, I had no idea that anyone in this day and age still held such beliefs. I guess I had wrongly assumed that someone of your character, intelligence and wit thought about these things.

I did have a good time going out with you. It seems like you had a good time with me as well, which makes me annoyed at that first lenghty message you sent me when you got back. The fact that you brought up the subject of money in the first place made it seem like your main problem is that I made you spend your own money or I didn't spend enough money on you. You expected me to pay for everything, despite the fact that I don't know you very well. I don't feel comfortable doing that for someone for a number of reasons, one of them being that I give gifts and favors graciously, without hesitation, to people who are CLOSE to me. They have proven themselves deserving of my companionship. I haven't known you quite long enough for me to feel that way about you. To expand further on that (even though you say you are not a gold-digger), I don't believe in buying a person's affection. I certainly thought you were a charming, sophisticated woman, but I thought you were more sophisticated than this. Apparently, I was wrong. If I'm required to buy your affection and your time with gifts, dinners, and flowers -- I'd rather not have it.

I also find it pretty annoying that you chose to bring up those issues via an impersonal email and didn't have the courage to make a phone call or tell me your problems face-to-face. And to be honest, I didn't feel any real chemistry here as well. Don't get me wrong, we got along pretty well and most guys would consider you attractive. I initially didn't think that we would have good chemistry, but I thought that you might have a good personality.

One more thing, I'll try to end this quickly because I'm running late...I am not angry or pissed at you or anyone else, far from it. Too many things can be read into writings, emails, non verbal communiques etc. or they are misconstrued or misinterpreted. If you think that there is this dark cloud planted over my head, shooting out thunderbolts and lightning because of recent events, you couldn't be more wrong. Trust me, if I let these kind of things affect me that way, there wouldn't be much left of me but a corpse slowly going cold on the side of the road. I just felt like saying all of this to clue you in about where I'm coming from.

So you have yourself a good day, if you would like to have a conversation or hang out sometime, I'm all for it. I don't hold grudges, well mostly. ;) Buh-bye.

------

END OF STORY, she is out, curbed, next'd, email blocked. Just thought you guys might be interested in the closure part.


over and out.


[This message has been edited by 86 (edited 06-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by 86 (edited 06-19-2002).]
 

JustDoItAlways

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Well 86, this didn't turn out too well in the end, did it.

I should have posted a little more on this after but I didn't really expect you to send her this type of E-mail.

Here is a small section of another post I made a little while ago.

Originally posted by JustDoItAlways:


It never does any good to tell a girl after you've broken up that you didn't like how you were treated. We'd all love to just "rip" her another as*, seek revenge etc.

But women don't feel guilt or understand consequences the same way men do. More importantly, this type of E-mail elicits the entire opposite response in the female brain. They feel even more justified in getting rid of you if you play the "poor me, look how I was treated" or even the "you f*cking b*tch" angles. They think "you're obviously not the real man I was looking for so its a good thing that I got rid of you". As well, they think, "I'm really a good person (they all love to think of themselves this way) how dare he question it, its good that I got rid of him".

The way to make a woman feel guilt or regret is to show (not tell) them what they missed out on. They are very selfish you know.

In this case, you still want to hang out on her couch and party with her etc. Now, how is that going to happen if write an E-mail like this.

I'd reply:

"Thanks b*tch (put her real name in here of course). I enjoyed coming up for the week-end. Had a really good time at ... doing ... Can you believe that .... did ...

I know it could never work out between us, so don't worry about it. You really did both of us a favor.

Anyway, just wanted to drop a line and say thanks.

Ricky"

This kind of E-mail makes them go "BZZZTT" -brain short circuit. If she responds in kind, take the LJBF angle from then on. Pretty low odds on this working out though, but you could give it a try.

I, myself, would not respond at all and I'd be setting up the date with the next prospect.

This is similar to your case. What you have done is create an enemy. A female enemy that will not stop in telling everyone around her that she comes in contact with what a loser you are. The entire opposite of social proof and the only way you would have benefited from this situation in the long-run.

In terms of my 9.5 redhead, after I wised up and broke up with her, I used her for social proof (pretending to be just friends) until I got a new girlfriend. I knew she would go for it because these type of chicks hate sitting at home. They'll use any AFC that come along (including ex-boyfriends of just days ago) for something to do. I knew exactly what I was doing so I wasn't phased by her overall negativity.

It was just a few weeks (of pure hell) and, then, thanks to her unintentional help, I told her, "look my new girlfriend doesn't like me hanging out with you anymore." The new girl said nothing of the kind of course but I couldn't stand being around her anymore. The new girl said to me a few months later that she thought we were boyfriend and girlfriend and had no chance with me. She was literally overwhelmed when I asked her to lunch. (interesting, the new girl never asked me about her at all until much later.)

Its a lesson learned, but my advice to you is to see if you can patch things up a bit with your 9.5 redhead. Unblock your e-mail first. See if she is a little nicer now. Her latest E-mails are warming up a bit (from the coldest part of the year in Antarica that is.) You did a good job of calling her out (which doesn't help YOU in the long-run of course) so she should be even a little nicer now.

Just patch things up until she doesn't hate you anymore and will, at least, not talk down about you in the future. Then you should slowly slip away.

By the way, the three-date rule has many different variations. On this and other seduction websites, the rule for guys is to have sex with her by the end of the third-date or Next her (a good rule actually.)

Most other variations are to give a person a least three dates before you give up no matter how low your interest is. Give them at least three dates to prove themselves. (I believe this is what she was talking about.) She was extending it to five dates.
 

lucien779

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if she was a philosophy major...wouldn't she realize that all "obligations" are relative to their system, and therefore meaningless?
 

86

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Originally posted by JustDoItAlways:

Well 86, this didn't turn out too well in the end, did it.

it ain't the first time bro.


JustDoItAlways, you had some good points in your last post, but if this woman turns out to be an enemy, it won't bother or affect me in the least (we don't even travel in the same circles). my social life will really not suffer just because she isn't an available social proof. I felt my message was even-handed and to the point, and I felt that I put her in her place and didn't wuss out. "You're either with me or against me", ya know? besides, she's just one chick, right? there's far more and BETTER women out there, I'm already getting the next girl in position.
 

JustDoItAlways

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Okay, works for me. It really is a good thing to move on from these kind of women.
 

Sir_Chancealot

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86, I gotta tell you.

This chick wants your c*ck. Yes, she's a gold-digger, but she wants it in the worst way. I must also tell you that she is a f*cking head case.

If you get her alone, get into a big argument with her, and she'll want you to f*ck the daylights out of her. Trust me on this.

I had a big long post explaining my thoughts on this, but as usual this STUPID F*CKING BOARD won't let me post real long replies.


You SHOULD NOT have put that part in there about "most guys would find you attractive", but it may yet work to your advantage.

You shouldn't have said "we wouldn't have good chemistry", you should have had the balls to say "I didn't think you were all that attractive...". If she knows she's hot (and you better bet your ass this chick THINKS she's hot), this would have absolutely driven her crazy. Instead, you left it up to "chemistry", like it's some impersonal luck sort of thing, instead of HER NOT BEING PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE ENOUGH.

I'd be interested in seeing your original reply to her e-mail, AND her reply to your second reply. You KNOW it's coming.

This is too funny!
 

TesuqueRed

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We need to hear more about this. If Chance's last post is on point, it'll be quite instructive. I agree her temper (and interest) is piqued (or peaked--?) but I see the last few e-mail salvos as mere posturing by both sides--you're standard pyssing match.

A pattern emerges:
"Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed myself..."
"Don't get me wrong, I really liked everything about you..."
"Don't get me wrong, I'm not angry..."
"I'm just doing this to let you know..."
"Just to set the record straight, I'm not a..."
"FYI, to prove I'm not a ..., I could've married a billionaire and didn't..." or "I go out a lot and I don't encounter your type, so how can you say..."

My take is--why engage in any of this? Proving something to her, or proving something to yourself? Like I said, it's posturing, or engaging in a ill-desguised pyssing match.

Chance may be right--it'll be interesting to see how this plays.

Oh, I agree w/the post about why didn't you kiss her w/i 3 dates or make a move. Did you leave out some details here?
 

Vatican

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Yeah, this is beginning to sound like one of those old movies where the girl and the guy are having a long argument and then he suddenly just grabs her and kisses her, cruelly. And you know what, I think that approach would work in this situation, if you ever saw her in person again. I think Sir_Chancealot is right.
 

86

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all good points...

as far as making the move/going for the kiss goes, by the last date there just wasn't enough signs on her part for me to even bother. perhaps why I let it get that far was the fact that she actually was really attractive. there was some kino but that was about it.

if I got to her that good, I mean really grabbed her by the short hairs, it's entirely up to her now, if she wants to be in my presence (she doesn't) she knows the number. I predict in 3-4 years, when she hits her early 30's, that clock will start ticking and she may have to re-think her options unless she hasn't already reeled in some spineless, subserviant chump to put up with her B.S.

it has been a very educational week for me, this one has definitely broken the record books for being the most entertaining and downright silly.
 

WildThang

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Originally posted by 86:
all good points...

as far as making the move/going for the kiss goes, by the last date there just wasn't enough signs on her part for me to even bother. perhaps why I let it get that far was the fact that she actually was really attractive. there was some kino but that was about it.

if I got to her that good, I mean really grabbed her by the short hairs, it's entirely up to her now, if she wants to be in my presence (she doesn't) she knows the number. I predict in 3-4 years, when she hits her early 30's, that clock will start ticking and she may have to re-think her options unless she hasn't already reeled in some spineless, subserviant chump to put up with her B.S.

it has been a very educational week for me, this one has definitely broken the record books for being the most entertaining and downright silly.
I think you played this okay, 86. You didn't supplicate and she was kind of baffled by that.

I'd probably have been crueller and more direct: mentioned that the respect thing works both ways, but she has *no* interest in that, or even any understanding of how that might work. (See how it's all one way in her head? You, the guy, respect her, the woman, just because.) And you'd rather date someone who's a mature woman, rather than someone who *looks* like a mature woman but is just a little girl who still wants a guy to be daddy and pay for everything.

But hey - your response did the job just as well.

And finally - a degree is good, but if she's pulling this shyt when she doesn't even have a job - whooo, that is a *big* bad sign of things to come.

One of the big benefits of The DJ Way is you can weed out the losers like this one.

Being a 9.5 *excuses nothing.* It doesn't give her the right to expect subservience or attention. A woman only gets attention if the price for that nice ass isn't letting her act like a spoiled brat.

This one wasn't up to the challenge. Game over.
 

Marquez

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great board, very good advice actually.

her: "I've always been one of the guys" ...

deep inside she wants you, but isn't able to admit it (at least she is a woman).
 

macallik

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interesting post. I don't know if it is archive worthy, but definitely interesting.

As for the situation. I think Sir Chancelot was too aggressive in his first response and get it spot on for his second reply. The girl is intimidated and attempting to gain the upper hand by rejecting you and hoping you pursue harder. You didn't need to play hard ball, she was primed and ready to go.

I need to throw out some food for thought concerning me. I don't put up with people who are mean to me on any level. If I'm not having a great time, I'm out. If I have to think about something too much or it makes me feel bad for no reason, it's gone. I don't mind sending in your resume one bit, so don't worry about that.
She is cutting you out of her life because she is thinking about you too much and afraid



Now that I'm away from your charms, I have thought about a couple of things that really are the kiss of death as far as I'm concerned...
aka your charms had her hypnotized

here's the deal, normally I wouldn't even bother to mention this, I just wouldn't have even talked to you again, but I do like you.
Admits she likes you

The guys who are my good friends, or the guys I choose to date, and even guys I know through business, have one thing in common when dealing with me. Which is why I am not settling on this issue. They all respect women, and where I'm concerned, they're fantastic gentlemen. No matter what grade of the pay scale they may operate on, they always pay, they ALWAYS open doors-every door, and they never play games to get me to pick up the tab or pay my way into a club. It ususally is a fight the few times I try to treat them.
then why is she thinking about you instead of them... why isn't she dating them...

I don't want to be manipulated, or be the whipping boy because someone has been burned or knows someone who has been burned by "women", and I don't need a guy to move in with, or marry, or whatever it is that motivates most people to play games.
Her 'no nonsense' attitude towards dating makes her sound like the person she is describing you as. She has been hurt previously...


So here's the deal, I am what I look like. Independent, happy, intelligent, and flirtatous, with a lot happening. This is the only way I am goign to be.
Qualifying herself to you



I thought you were great, really liked everything else I saw, actually sorry about the fatal flaw. If it was an accident, oh well, maybe the next chick will benefit from this info.
Another outright admission of her attraction and interest

Libras and scorpios either really get along fantastically, or they really don't get along at all terribly. It's an all thing. It's either all one or the other. Like it's either one big romance or it's one big head game, and that's from the first moment. This seems to have gotten off on the "head game" foot first. I just can't do it. I'm WAY too apathetic to play mind games, I get pissed and then I check out period.
She thinks it's in the stars or destiny



I would have:

a) given her a short response like "if that's the way you feel, I'm sorry to hear that. Bye" and she would have gone into chase mode to see if her accusations were off base
b) Apologized and asked for a 2nd date where I did the same stuff as before but with more eye contact/kino.
c) played on the true love not meaning money thing

everyone is quick to call her a gold digger even tho she bought drinks for ole dude. She is an entitled b!tch. The difference is one tries underhandly to get material possessions while the other expects them upfront. Not to get too caught up in the seduction lingo but that's like saying a guy who uses NLP to get a woman is the same as a guy who uses some in your face, 'give me the pvssy' rap is the same
 
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