reading between the lines (long)

[86]

i've been out with this 9.5/10 redhead like three times...she went out of town for a week and sends me this email when she got back:

I need to throw out some food for thought concerning me. I don't put up with people who are mean to me on any level. If I'm not having a great time, I'm out. If I have to think about something too much or it makes me feel bad for no reason, it's gone. I don't mind sending in your resume one bit, so don't worry about that.

Now that I'm away from your charms, I have thought about a couple of things that really are the kiss of death as far as I'm concerned... here's the deal, normally I wouldn't even bother to mention this, I just wouldn't have even talked to you again, but I do like you. The guys who are my good friends, or the guys I choose to date, and even guys I know through business, have one thing in common when dealing with me. Which is why I am not settling on this issue. They all respect women, and where I'm concerned, they're fantastic gentlemen. No matter what grade of the pay scale they may operate on, they always pay, they ALWAYS open doors-every door, and they never play games to get me to pick up the tab or pay my way into a club. It ususally is a fight the few times I try to treat them.

SO, I don't know if you are just rusty, or you're just looking for a chick to have around to keep your friends off your back,or both even, but the bottom line here is, I've been out with you three times and this was an issue all three times. It's not going to cut it. The only reason I date is for social interaction, I don't want to be manipulated, or be the whipping boy because someone has been burned or knows someone who has been burned by "women", and I don't need a guy to move in with, or marry, or whatever it is that motivates most people to play games.
I just want to be around a guy that has his act together, is not insecure where I'm concerned, and relizes I'm not a slut and I will not put up with all the subtle tactics guys use when they are treating a girl like one. Really, I have an inside line, I've always been one of the guys so I have been well briefed on what to look for

So here's the deal, I am what I look like. Independent, happy, intelligent, and flirtatous, with a lot happening. This is the only way I am goign to be. I want a guy who loves to have fun, plot, gossip, and he cares about me as a person, and he relizes part of the fun of being a guy is pursuing chicklets because its the guy thing to do if you're cool. I don't want a lazy guy that gets off into controlling the emotions of a situation because they don't want to participate.

So, what insults me most about the way the dates were handled, is you know the standard and you just chose to ignore it. So I am assuming you weren't interested and you really are looking for a chick just for "having access to a chick" sake. I'm not that person for you. I am what would be known as high maintenance, that means to me that I actually know the right way, expect to be respected, and expect a guy to be checked in. I just know, if a guy doesn't start out from the get-go really wanting to do it right, they never get it straight. And as a rule, women can be mean too, but usually it's the type with the low standards that let guys get away with treating them like sluts. I'm just mad you treated me like a slut date. I thought you were great, really liked everything else I saw, actually sorry about the fatal flaw. If it was an accident, oh well, maybe the next chick will benefit from this info.

On the silly side, I think Libras are great, I know many. You were right in saying there's not much to the sign thing, but there is a little truth. Libras and scorpios either really get along fantastically, or they really don't get along at all terribly. It's an all thing. It's either all one or the other. Like it's either one big romance or it's one big head game, and that's from the first moment. This seems to have gotten off on the "head game" foot first. I just can't do it. I'm WAY too apathetic to play mind games, I get pissed and then I check out period.

Take care, blah blah blah

guys, I'm kinda speechless...I feel like I've been through what RKTek was put throught when his gold-digger opened up the floodgates...

maybe it's because I'm waaaay exhausted from work, my neurons aren't firing at full capacity, or I need to get some expresso, but WTF! is this girl saying fvck off don't ever speak to me again or what...deep down I kinda knew she was hi-maintenance...ahhh, women.....

lemme hear your thoughts, brothas..

[This message has been edited by 86 (edited 06-17-2002).]

 

[Sir_Chancealot]

Dude,

I don't mean to be a pr*ck....well, ok I lied. I DO mean to be a pr*ck!

Use paragraphs when you post something that long.

 

[Sir_Chancealot]

Ah hell with it. I'll do a post-mortem anyway.

Originally posted by 86:
If I have to think about something too much or it makes me feel bad for no reason, it's gone.

Can we say high maintenance?

They all respect women, and where I'm concerned, they're fantastic gentlemen. No matter what grade of the pay scale they may operate on, they always pay, they ALWAYS open doors-every door, and they never play games to get me to pick up the tab or pay my way into a club. It ususally is a fight the few times I try to treat them.

Gold-digger, getchyer gold-diggers here!
Oh, so how "gentlemanly" they are is directly proportional to how much they spend on you?

I just want to be around a guy that has his act together, is not insecure where I'm concerned, and relizes I'm not a slut and I will not put up with all the subtle tactics guys use when they are treating a girl like one.

No, you want a guy you can walk all over. At least that's what you THINK you want.

Really, I have an inside line, I've always been one of the guys so I have been well briefed on what to look for

If I had a dollar for every b*tch that said that....

I want a guy who loves to have fun, plot, gossip,

And is so friggen gay he wants me to wear a strap-on......

and he cares about me as a person, and he relizes part of the fun of being a guy is pursuing chicklets because its the guy thing to do if you're cool.

Here, she's telling you that she wants you to PURSUE her.

So, what insults me most about the way the dates were handled, is you know the standard and you just chose to ignore it. So I am assuming you weren't interested and you really are looking for a chick just for "having access to a chick" sake.

She wants to believe that, because the alternative is that she has to believe that YOU DIDN'T FIND HER ATTRACTIVE.

I'm not that person for you. I am what would be known as high maintenance, that means to me that I actually know the right way, expect to be respected, and expect a guy to be checked in.

No, it means this here gold-digging b*tch wants to be treated all high and mighty.
I think she could use a good ass spanking from ole' Sir_Chancealot!

I just know, if a guy doesn't start out from the get-go really wanting to do it right, they never get it straight.

Can you see the condescenion in this statement? "Straight" according to who, b*tch?

And as a rule, women can be mean too,

Like you.

but usually it's the type with the low standards that let guys get away with treating them like sluts.

Like she USED to be.

I'm just mad you treated me like a slut date.

Translated: You didn't spend any money on me.

I thought you were great, really liked everything else I saw, actually sorry about the fatal flaw.

This b*tch actually qualifies now to be called a c*nt.

You need to send an e-mail to this chick that says, in essense, "The reason I didn't spend any money on you is because I use that to weed out gold-diggers. You know, women who are just interested in a guy's money. Thanks for letting me know that you are a gold digger. You've saved me alot of time!

Tell us more about those dates you went on. What transpired, what happened, how much you spent, etc.


[This message has been edited by Sir_Chancealot (edited 06-17-2002).]

 

[86]

woops, my bad...

let there be PARAGRAPHS!

 

[MisterErious]

All I was gonna write was that this is the classic model of the rich-***** who needs attention more than she needs oxygen, but Chancealot blew me out of the water.

This letter requires some HARDCORE RETALIATION.

------------------
"Girls don't form friendships, only alliances."

 

[MG69]

she feels insecure from wat i can interpret

 

[Rev]

Don't puss out on us, Man. I would send her a less harsh version of Sir_C's letter, well actually, fuk that! I would copy and paste it to an email. Of course, post her response. Stupid gold-digging b!tch ain't seen nothing yet. If she only knew what she was up against.

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

 

[86]

Sir_Chance, thanks for the post, that lightened the mood!

here's the run down of our 3 dates, this is a pretty detailed account, fer chrissakes:

DATE 1
we meet up at a coffee house on a Wed. night, talk for a little bit (good convo), then head down the street where a band is playing outside at a bar. she sees a friend, and introduces me to _HIM_, then proceeds to talk to solely to this guy for 5-10 min. or so (about what I dunno, the band's too loud to overhear anything)...that sent off the **DJ warning alarm**, too bad I didn't pay much attention to it. the band stops, we go into the bar and talk some more, we leave the bar after a while and I tell her I have to go, walk her to her car and leave. total date time: a little over 2 hours.

DATE 2
we meet up on a Mon. night to have dinner then see some live music afterwards. she is 15 min. late. I tell her she was lucky I was still at the restaraunt because I was planning on waiting 5 more min., then she would've been on her own. we eat dinner, more decent (she talks alot) convo, I PAY for dinner. we take my car (I opened the car door for her) and head to a club having a lot of different bands playing, and have a good time people watching, naming popular songs that were ripped off when the bands play, etc. she gives me sort of a hard time when I won't go buy her a drink, and ends up going over to the bar and buying us both one (score one for 86!

)...I see an old buddy from a band I used to be in and we catch up on old times while I let her talk to her friends she's spotted at the same club. I'm still chatting w/ my buddy when she comes over and it's getting late so we leave. I open the car door for her again and drop her off at her car back at the restaraunt. total date time: 4-5 hours.

DATE 3
date 3 was the day right after date 2...that was probably a mistake. anyway I asked her while on date 2 if she was into going to see this great hip-hop duo with me and she seemed excited to go. we meet up at the club but the band is a long way from going on, so we head across the street to chill at this other club on their porch. more convo, mostly her of course, she's kind of a gossip-type, oh well...I tried the mirror technique on her (mimic her posture) and it worked - she was soon matching my posture. it worked several times. the band finally plays and we're having a good time. after the show we end up sitting in her car talking about things. did I mention that she talks a lot? she has a degree in poly sci and philosophy (or so she says). underneath the surface, I can tell she's struggling with something but she can't really verbalize it apparently. she makes this comment about having a '3-date rule' or something with guys, but says with me she's adjusted it to a '5-date rule', oh geeeeeee thanks....long story short, I say goodnight and leave on a positive note.

that's most of what I remember...hope it helps.

[This message has been edited by 86 (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[Big-J]

Yeah a 3 date rule eh?

.

"If he doesn't spend $500 on me in 3 dates, then he's cheap and will be toast!"

now a 5 date rule

.

"If he doesn't spend $1000 on me in 5 dates, he's really cheap, cheaper than a 3 dater, and should be tossed faster than a yesterday's cheap chicken salled salad!"

------------------
Big John

 

[TesuqueRed]

I don't see much at issue w/your description of the dates. She certainly has different expectations. A 9.5/10 redhead can expect to be @ss-kissed like a queen (imagine what it would take to knock her off her pedestal? She sounds smart and aware such that the normal neg-hit wouldn't work.)

Either you misread the dates (a possibility I suggest only for the sake of argument) or she is attempting to whip you into line.

She's interested enough to attempt to whip you into line--if you believe her when most guys get dumped w/o an explanation...er, I guess that's a positive???

I dunno....how do you feel about going out w/her? It's one thing to have enjoyed yourself well enough--put aside her being a 9.5/10 red (read: trophy)--did you enjoy it better than the last 5 women you dated?

I'd say next her. You have a rare chance to do the dumping here--probably something she hasn't encountered since she was 15.

Make it simple, direct and gentleman-like (as she requested in her e-mail--what a piece of work that was!!!)--I'd say:

"My apologies for not meeting your standards. Take care."

Your 2 sentences will stand out in stark contrast to her blast--meaning, you'll stand out.

Then make sure you're seen dating and having fun w/someone else IMMEDIATELY. Ignore her--but if you run across her, give her a smile, ask how she's doing and wish her a good evening. Then go and have more fun w/your date.

[This message has been edited by TesuqueRed (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[JustDoItAlways]

86, she sounds exactly like an ex-girlfriend I had (ended up on this site in my quest to figure out how to handle her.)

She was also a 9.5 redhead and displayed all the "high maintenance" and "manipulative" charcteristics that this girl did in her E-mail. This girl is much uglier and more dangerous than just a "gold-digger".

This E-mail is all about her wanting to control and manipulate you in the future. Notice, there was not one mention about her treating you right or if you had a good time on the dates etc. It was all about her and how to treat her.

If you continue to see her, you might as well hand her your balls right now because that is all she's looking for.

Send her an e-mail back and say:

"Wow, that's a lot to digest. Thanks. I agree with you, there doesn't appear to be much in this for either of us.

To be honest, I didn't feel any chemistry here as well. Don't get me wrong, most guys would consider you attractive.

That's why the three-date rule is a good one. If there isn't that initial attraction, its a good time just to move on.

Take care in the future."

High-maintenance 9.5s hate this sh1t because you question the only asset they have in thier control games (thier looks.) She'll chase you in the future and you can then use her for social proof. But, don't spend any time at all with her (remember your balls again), just let the other girls see her chasing you and never take her on another date.


[This message has been edited by JustDoItAlways (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[86]

TesuqueRed, Sir_Chance, JustDoItAlways -- you guys are totally right on the money with this one, thanks!

 

[Big-J]

Does this by any chance enforce the "Redhead's are bad News" generalization or conception?

.

------------------
Big John

 

[UnluckynLuv]

This was my thought also.LOL!!!!

Originally posted by Rev:
Don't puss out on us, Man. I would send her a less harsh version of Sir_C's letter, well actually, fuk that! I would copy and paste it to an email. Of course, post her response. Stupid gold-digging b!tch ain't seen nothing yet. If she only knew what she was up against.

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

HAAAAAA

 

[PlayerinTraining]

Originally posted by 86:
Underneath the surface, I can tell she's struggling with something but she can't really verbalize it apparently. she makes this comment about having a '3-date rule' or something with guys, but says with me she's adjusted it to a '5-date rule'

[This message has been edited by 86 (edited 06-18-2002).]

I take her revision of the "3 date rule" and her recent message as a sign of HIGH interest in you. If she weren't as interested in you, she wouldn't have bothered with the message.

I'd agree with the others that her standards are unfair. Why is it the sign of a gentleman to pay for a woman he barely knows, but sexist and wrong if the guy expects sex or some physical display of affection from a woman who he takes out?

I don't know what your interest level in this woman is. But, I think you should point out that she is being a B!TCH, but in a subtle way.

Here is how I would handle it:

It would be best to call her on the phone, but if you need to send a message, try this:

"Hey, I got your email. I did have a good time going out with you. It seems like you had a good time with me as well, which makes me annoyed at your last message to me.

It seems like your main problem is that I didn't spend enough money on you. You expected me to pay for EVERYTHING, despite the fact I don't know you very well.

I don't feel comfortable doing that for someone for a number of reasons:

First, I give gifts and favors graciously people who are CLOSE to me. They have proven themselves deserving of my companionship. I haven't known you long enough for me to feel that way about you.

Second, I don't believe in buying a person's affection. I thought you were more sophisticated than this. Apparently, I was wrong.

If I'm required to buy your affection and time with gifts, dinners, and flowers--I'd rather not have it.

Normally, I'd ignore such an unfair message, and toss your number in the trash. But I'd like to give you another chance. If you like me as much as you say you do, we could work this out...

[Be creative. Have her call you, meet you for drinks, etc.]

Of course, you sleep with her, and don't call her again.

[This message has been edited by PlayerinTraining (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[Maximus]

Run away!

Run away!

Run away!

Oh my God.

I am so glad to never have dated a woman like this. I would curb this chick even if she looked like Jennifer Connely.

The length of her email is an indication of the amount of whining and complaining she will do (in the long run) to make your life miserable because nothing will ever be good enough for her.

If you want to REALLY play with her head.

DO NOT RESPOND AT ALL.

NO REPLY EMAIL.

Silence is the ultimate weapon.

I know many others feel her email deserves to be "called" but I don't think so. She's not worth it.

Never make contact with her again. If she starts to stalk you, it will confirm what you are already thinking.

"This woman has more baggage than a 747 at Hethro."

P.S. RUN AWAY!

Maximus

------------------
The Way of The
Simpleton - A
simpleton: lays down
no first law, takes
everything that
happens as it comes.
The simplicity of the
truly sophisticated.

---- Bruce Lee

[This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 06-19-2002).]

 

[UnluckynLuv]

TRUE,TRUE.

The best revenge is to forget. but it's so hard to do.

 

[Sir_Chancealot]

This chick is actually interested in you. I probably didn't make that clear enough in my original post. She wants you to pursue her, and to spend money on her. VERY high maintenance.

You need to read my neg-hits post, and if you get the chance to date her again, MAKE SURE YOU USE A COUPLE OF NEG-HITS ON HER.

You also need to call her on her bullsh*t. She said that she expects men to open car doors for her, blah, blah, blah. You did that. When you call her on it, don't do it in a whiney, pathetic "hey, I did that, so you should like me way". Do it in a "You are full of sh*t!" way. In fact, that phrase almost always elicits the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look. When you are that direct and that blunt, they can't use any of their other b.s. on you.

You DEFINITELY need to reply to this chick, and make sure that you tell her that she is not up to your physical standards of attractiveness, but do it subtley.

An example of which would be "I initially didn't think that we would have good chemistry, but I thought that you might have a good personality". Side-note: Women ALWAYS describe their ugly friends as having "a good personality", so what you are doing is calling her ugly without calling her ugly. She'll go apesh*t over that one!

Needless to say, this c*nt is only good for a f*ck. Don't get into an LTR (hell, not even a STR even), and whatever you do, DON'T DEVELOP ANY FEELINGS FOR HER.

I WOULD NOT let her e-mail go unanswered. As a matter of fact, when you respond, say "Sorry I haven't responded to you. I've been pretty busy these last couple of nights". (you are implying that you are out with other women. Indirect social proof).

The reason that you don't want to let this go is that you intrigue this chick, contrary to what she has told you. LISTEN TO HER ACTIONS, NOT HER WORDS.

I almost forgot..... the "3 date rule" is the number of dates before screwing a guy.

[This message has been edited by Sir_Chancealot (edited 06-19-2002).]

 

[chicago#1]

Looks like I am in the minority opinion on this, but hear me out.

I read the letter, and then the accounts of the three dates and the first thing that popped into my head was "gee, did he try to kiss her?" If this is not the case, then this is harsh, but you are the one that ****ed up, and she is pissed because she thinks you are just stringing her along and that you have more or less rejected her.

Do not respond to the letter, but do not apologize either. You have been on three dates and you don't have a relationship that will handle such turbulence. Simply call her up, chat with her, and ask her for a 4th date, and go for the kiss close. Or just forget about her. Shyt or get off the pot, and avoid the AFC melodrama stuff. If you can't control your anger then you are missing a key element of being a DJ.

Her extention to a 5 day rule was *shyt, he hasn't kissed me yet, I'll give him another chance*, and likely she just sent that letter to test you to see if you are ready to get down. Women get super pissed when you reject them, and you don't have to explicitly reject them to get the message across; you may have inadvertently sent a rejection notice without knowing it by waiting so damn long to kiss her.

To sum up: Call her up, be pleasant, ask her out a 4th time, and go for the kiss close. Good luck.

chicago#1

------------------
"In the land of the blind, a one eyed man is king"

 

[FluffyMutt]

Here's my suggested reply. "Well, none of the guys who have acted like you suggest are still dating you.

What do you really want? Perhaps someone who will stand up to you when you make unreasonable demands? If so, call me. You know the number."

This will drive her positively insane. I'd bet good money she would call or email back. She'll be upset, but she'll take the date.