Rant: The concept of a 'man-cave'.....

highSpeed

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My hypothetical wife could have the run of the kitchen, the bedrooms and the dinning room - with my permission.

You gotta delegate some authority and they feel empowered - useful.

All women want power to feel secure, not give but delegate it to them even when it's an illusion.

Play to win guys.

Win on ur terms.
You're funny, you must live in a country where pre-nups mean something, or have literally the best attorney and mob working for you. Yep, see how far you get when you get married and tell her that. Besides laughing in your face, it probably won't be long before you are in divorce court and paying alimony.
 

Spaz

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You're funny, you must live in a country where pre-nups mean something, or have literally the best attorney and mob working for you. Yep, see how far you get when you get married and tell her that. Besides laughing in your face, it probably won't be long before you are in divorce court and paying alimony.
Once upon a time, early in ur relationship, ur wife admired you and one might say she even respected you back then.

And over time that has changed.

She changed. She no longer admires you nor respects you as a husband or even as a man.

I'd predict that given enough time, even the children will disrespect you if they haven't done so - yet.

What do you think is the problem ?

Be reminded that you as the husband & father of her children is the natural head of that family unit, whom they naturally will defer to - now think before you answer my question.
 

highSpeed

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Once upon a time, early in ur relationship, ur wife admired you and one might say she even respected you back then.

And over time that has changed.

She changed. She no longer admires you nor respects you as a husband or even as a man.

I'd predict that given enough time, even the children will disrespect you if they haven't done so - yet.

What do you think is the problem ?

Be reminded that you as the husband & father of her children is the natural head of that family unit, whom they naturally will defer to - now think before you answer my question.
The problem is she has the control where it matters, what happens to the kids and how things get split up if the relationship fails. Look, I get it, dating, you have some valid points. Hell, even living together, you have some valid points. Once you get married and have kids, she's in the driver's seat.

There is no jedi mind trick when it comes to marriage and kids. Until they change these draconian laws to balance things out, it's in the woman's favor and she knows this, end of story.

I might, let me repeat, might, be able to claw back some of the control back in my relationship but it's an uphill battle at best and that's even if you were starting from scratch. I'm working on myself, mentally, to try and change some of my responses to external stimuli but that's just as much for me as it is for the relationship. I realize some things about how I'm being gas lighted that make me want to change how I'm going about some things in my relationship. That should probably defuse some situations. Will that put me back in control? Unfortunately, most likely not. Will it give me some more peace in my day-to-day interactions with her? Hopefully and probably. And as a lot, hell, most married guys will tell you, this is the best that you can hope for most of the time.

See what you fail to realize is she doesn't want to be gamed in a marriage, she wants comfort, security and control primarily. You can attempt all the game you want but once you're married and have kids, you've already promised the comfort, security and control. You've already given up your biggest ace up your sleeve. At least with a legal framework, you can further reward her over time for staying sane in the relationship but that means you have to have resources coming into the marriage, something tangible/visible she can gain. Promises of future wealth and success matter nothing to her, only what you have today or is imminently inbound.

I'm under no illusions, I've screwed up royally, from getting married in the first place and worse yet, not having the legal framework to retain some level of control in my relationship but at the end of the day, it's mostly on me whether or not this relationship succeeds. That's not what I envisioned a partnership or marriage to be. If I knew this to be the case before I got married, I'd have stayed single and just dated, no matter how much I would have liked to have a family.
 

R.U.G.

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The problem is she has the control where it matters, what happens to the kids and how things get split up if the relationship fails. Look, I get it, dating, you have some valid points. Hell, even living together, you have some valid points. Once you get married and have kids, she's in the driver's seat.

There is no jedi mind trick when it comes to marriage and kids. Until they change these draconian laws to balance things out, it's in the woman's favor and she knows this, end of story.

I might, let me repeat, might, be able to claw back some of the control back in my relationship but it's an uphill battle at best and that's even if you were starting from scratch. I'm working on myself, mentally, to try and change some of my responses to external stimuli but that's just as much for me as it is for the relationship. I realize some things about how I'm being gas lighted that make me want to change how I'm going about some things in my relationship. That should probably defuse some situations. Will that put me back in control? Unfortunately, most likely not. Will it give me some more peace in my day-to-day interactions with her? Hopefully and probably. And as a lot, hell, most married guys will tell you, this is the best that you can hope for most of the time.

See what you fail to realize is she doesn't want to be gamed in a marriage, she wants comfort, security and control primarily. You can attempt all the game you want but once you're married and have kids, you've already promised the comfort, security and control. You've already given up your biggest ace up your sleeve. At least with a legal framework, you can further reward her over time for staying sane in the relationship but that means you have to have resources coming into the marriage, something tangible/visible she can gain. Promises of future wealth and success matter nothing to her, only what you have today or is imminently inbound.

I'm under no illusions, I've screwed up royally, from getting married in the first place and worse yet, not having the legal framework to retain some level of control in my relationship but at the end of the day, it's mostly on me whether or not this relationship succeeds. That's not what I envisioned a partnership or marriage to be. If I knew this to be the case before I got married, I'd have stayed single and just dated, no matter how much I would have liked to have a family.
Bro, you need to work on your frame. You should also get some consultations from some divorce lawyers to see what your options are. In the meantime, work on yourself with some subtle changes. Get some new clothes, go to the gym and work out. Get a new hair cut. Eat better. You can turn this around, but she has to get into your frame. Oh, yea, I went through divorce, so I know the ropes. It was a bit painful, but we all have to take our medicine one way or another. Staying in a marriage just for kids is suicide. Trust when I say the kids know things are not good between their parents. Kids are not stupid. It would be healthier for you, for your wife and more importantly, your kids. As always, you should start diverting some of your family's funds to a separate account which she doesn't know about nor has access to. You can do this legally in a few ways. What I would do is go to a UPS Store and get a mailbox. Then go a bank and open a custodial account for your kids and slowly deposit money into these accounts. I say this as since their SS #'s are on the accounts and not yours, it will not be counted against you in a divorce nor found through an asset search. Obviously, don't do something dumb and write a check from your account and deposit into the custodial account. CASH ONLY. You can withdraw funds from the ATM, then go to A DIFFERENT BANK; preferably in ANOTHER STATE if you are close to the border, and deposit it there. If she asks, you say you bought some stuff to make you feel better. I'm going through a mid-life crisis, deal with it then walk away.

Next, head over to DadsDivorce.com and post your story there. The fine gents over there will give you some good advice and guide you with some options. Your story sounds all too similar to a lot of others there. I can tell you I hit my wife with papers and a TRO hard and fast, she didn't know what hit her. That is what you should consider as she will use the kids against you. You need to start to plan an exit strategy for the next 12 - 18 months. Enough to setup a nice cushion for yourself to get another place close to your home and some stash money. I'd also add that you can buy some silver bullion online with credit cards and store the bullion in a safe deposit box registered to your kids so she cannot get access to it. I'd then go laying some money down at the casinos so you can build up a defense that you were so miserable in life you started drinking and gambling. This will give you some leverage in court. However, as I say, while I have a law degree and I've been through the motions myself, this is NOT legal advice, and you should see a lawyer in your home state for proper advice and council. If you select to just whither away and stay in your position, you can do that too. However, expect your wife to eventually file for divorce once the kids are out of the house or sooner. It's inevitable bro. It seems your both miserable.
 
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highSpeed

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Bro, you need to work on your frame. You should also get some consultations from some divorce lawyers to see what your options are. In the meantime, work on yourself with some subtle changes. Get some new clothes, go to the gym and work out. Get a new hair cut. Eat better. You can turn this around, but she has to get into your frame. Oh, yea, I went through divorce, so I know the ropes. It was a bit painful, but we all have to take our medicine one way or another. Staying in a marriage just for kids is suicide. Trust when I say the kids know things are not good between their parents. Kids are not stupid. It would be healthier for you, for your wife and more importantly, your kids. As always, you should start diverting some of your family's funds to a separate account which she doesn't know about nor has access to. You can do this legally in a few ways. What I would do is go to a UPS Store and get a mailbox. Then go a bank and open a custodial account for your kids and slowly deposit money into these accounts. I say this as since their SS #'s are on the accounts and not yours, it will not be counted against you in a divorce nor found through an asset search. Obviously, don't do something dumb and write a check from your account and deposit into the custodial account. CASH ONLY. You can withdraw funds from the ATM, then go to A DIFFERENT BANK; preferably in ANOTHER STATE if you are close to the border, and deposit it there. If she asks, you say you bought some stuff to make you feel better. I'm going through a mid-life crisis, deal with it then walk away.

Next, head over to DadsDivorce.com and post your story there. The fine gents over there will give you some good advice and guide you with some options. Your story sounds all too similar to a lot of others there. I can tell you I hit my wife with papers and a TRO hard and fast, she didn't know what hit her. That is what you should consider as she will use the kids against you. You need to start to plan an exit strategy for the next 12 - 18 months. Enough to setup a nice cushion for yourself to get another place close to your home and some stash money. I'd also add that you can buy some silver bullion online with credit cards and store the bullion in a safe deposit box registered to your kids so she cannot get access to it. I'd then go laying some money down at the casinos so you can build up a defense that you were so miserable in life you started drinking and gambling. This will give you some leverage in court. However, as I say, while I have a law degree and I've been through the motions myself, this is NOT legal advice, and you should see a lawyer in your home state for proper advice and council. If you select to just whither away and stay in your position, you can do that too. However, expect your wife to eventually file for divorce once the kids are out of the house or sooner. It's inevitable bro. It seems your both miserable.
I know, frame, frame, frame, what frame is there to be had when someone else has the control? Yes, I can probably make that happen as far as building up a stash but that's only a rain day fund that will easily get run dry once the fireworks start. It might buy me a few months, maybe a year max and then it will be exhausted. You're an attorney, you know how much they cost.

I'm willing to consider that but honestly, there's a mental component to thinking of another guy being traipsed through the house I'm paying for and my kids calling them dad. That honestly, that might make me have one hell of an epic melt down. Those are my kids, mine. They're not hers, I pay for them. I pay for the clothes on their back. I pay for the food in their mouth. I pay for the roof over their head. I pay for their private school. Me, without me, she can't do any of the sh*t we do. To only be tossed out and pretend like I don't exist? That, at max I'm likely to get 8 days a month with my kids. F*ck that sh*t, f*ck it.
 

R.U.G.

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I know, frame, frame, frame, what frame is there to be had when someone else has the control? Yes, I can probably make that happen as far as building up a stash but that's only a rain day fund that will easily get run dry once the fireworks start. It might buy me a few months, maybe a year max and then it will be exhausted. You're an attorney, you know how much they cost.

I'm willing to consider that but honestly, there's a mental component to thinking of another guy being traipsed through the house I'm paying for and my kids calling them dad. That honestly, that might make me have one hell of an epic melt down. Those are my kids, mine. They're not hers, I pay for them. I pay for the clothes on their back. I pay for the food in their mouth. I pay for the roof over their head. I pay for their private school. Me, without me, she can't do any of the sh*t we do. To only be tossed out and pretend like I don't exist? That, at max I'm likely to get 8 days a month with my kids. F*ck that sh*t, f*ck it.
Bro, I get you. My divorce was around 20k, so yea, they are expensive. However, living a life in misery is not the answer either. I highly encourage you to check out www.dadsdivorce.com. You are not alone and there is a solution here. Right now, what you are doing is not working. Your rant, while it may be valid, is an emotional response, not logical. You cannot act on emotions here, you must think and act logical. I do not know what State you live in, but most are 50/50 custody arrangements which are encouraged by the courts. Once you get emotions involved and trying to hurt the other party, the only ones who win are the lawyers in billable hours. Does your wife work? If not, you may want to see how that can change. The good guys over at Dad's Divorce can really help you get a handle on things and guide you better than most here. It's free as well.

No reason to live in misery and hell. Life is hard enough as it is. Again, I've been there, so I know some of what you are going through.
 
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That's not what I envisioned a partnership or marriage to be. If I knew this to be the case before I got married, I'd have stayed single and just dated, no matter how much I would have liked to have a family.
This is a legitimate issue that I get. I did the same. Even the thought of another man raising my kids caused some serious discomfort.

This is the lie that the feminine imperative and a feminine governed society. The illusion of teamwork or a partnership. It quite incideous. We hear it everywhere. “A marriage is a partnership and it takes team work.”
It’s a massive lie. Quite diabolical to tell men that this is possible within the normal framework of life in the western world.
 

Masculinity

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This is about the most beta thing I've ever heard of. A friend of mine put on facebook a post that asked what were the essentials for a man-cave, I told him it should be a jar with his testicles so he can reminisce about when he wasn't a p*ssy. Of course he gets pissed and I'm shamed to no end by the other crabs in the barrel. "You obviously aren't married with kids, because your man room is the only place you have a say-so". When did this crap become so commonplace and why does every man out there buy in to it? I'm married with kids, my whole house is my man-cave. I have deer horns in my living room, and my 'stuff' is everywhere. Sure I took down my sports stuff because at my age it's kinda weird to have posters of other men or college aged kids on my wall. I get having a home office or something but I don't understand the necessity of a room where you have to retreat, a long way away from the main living area, to engage in activities that you like.

It's accepted now that you get married and give the keys to your house to a woman, and then you get taken over by the latest trends. No heart, no depth, nothing. Men retreat to their mancaves. Whatever happened to having your HOME with input from your wife? ie. organization, some functional decorations, etc. But it's still yours.

When I watch a ball game, I watch in my mfing living room. I retreat nowhere. More than anything it's the acceptance of this sh*t that drives me insane. It's a function of the bigger problem. I mean it's ADMITTING you still have masculine/hetero tendencies but you are willing to submit to the dominance of the fem-tard consumer culture, filling up your house with retarded sh*t from Pier 1 Imports because her friends told her to.

You want to know why advertising caters to the dumber sects of society? Because they are DUMB.....so why are we submitting to them
If you pay for 50% of the house, you have the right to 50% of the house. This is the reason why marriage is a financial burden. Even if you pay 100% of the home, she is entitled to AT LEAST half of everything. And with this biased legal system, women know they can get away with a lot. Do not marry. Some states even presume you are married (common law marriage) if a man merely lives with a woman for a certain period of time.

Make informed decisions, gentleman. Conduct your due diligence.
 

speed dawg

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speed dawg

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lol, my dad has a man-cave. Its a 5000 sqft shop he built a few miles from the house he has with my mom. Inside his shop is a beautiful office with nice leather couch, big conference table, antique metal tile ceiling! The shop is packed full of collector cars, boats, car trailer, motorcycles, nice shop equipment, etc. Every tool you could own and 3 of everything. Even has a wood shop! He spends most of his day here. He has his thing and she can do whatever she wants with the house. Works great. He has the better deal!
It depends. That's not really the point, but I'll address it anyway. It's about doing what you want to do and not having to worry about your wife stamping out any of it in the name of making you 'acceptable'.

Your dad wants a shop? Great. Sounds like what he's doing isn't really something that should be inside your actual living space. I guess I would wonder why he wants to stay away from your mom all day?
 

speed dawg

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If you pay for 50% of the house, you have the right to 50% of the house. This is the reason why marriage is a financial burden. Even if you pay 100% of the home, she is entitled to AT LEAST half of everything.
I don't see any other way to do it, if you choose to marry. You're supposed to come together. So yeah, I think a spouse should be entitled to 50%, because you are making a life together.

If you don't want that, then don't marry, as you say.
 

Alvafe

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I don't see any other way to do it, if you choose to marry. You're supposed to come together. So yeah, I think a spouse should be entitled to 50%, because you are making a life together.

If you don't want that, then don't marry, as you say.
even when you don't spend a life together?
 

mrgoodstuff

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Home was paid off prior to marriage. It wasn't because of that, it was mostly likely because if sh!t hit the fan, she wanted to have leverage. No dice, ain't gonna happen on my watch.
Incredible strategy. Own the home first. Someone needs to start a list.
 

speed dawg

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even when you don't spend a life together?
What's the point then? If you do not want to be married, and do what a marriage entails, then don't do it. In a marriage you aren't two separate people.

If you want that, then find a woman who wants that, and avoid the marriage part.
 
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Alvafe

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What's the point then? If you do not want to be married, and do what a marriage entails, then don't do it. In a marriage you aren't two separate people.

If you want that, then find a woman who wants that, and avoid the marriage part.
actually you ARE 2 separate people, but in a ideal world, these 2 would join together and keep helping each other to keep everything ok and make things better to each other

and that is actually the whole point, you can do whatever, what I really want is everyone here do things knowing very well what they are getting, and that means not letting people think only they way is right, could I be wrong? yes, but the whole facts tell us otherwise, this very forum tell us otherwise, you want to marry? go ahead, but be prepared for anything.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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actually you ARE 2 separate people, but in a ideal world, these 2 would join together and keep helping each other to keep everything ok and make things better to each other

and that is actually the whole point, you can do whatever, what I really want is everyone here do things knowing very well what they are getting, and that means not letting people think only they way is right, could I be wrong? yes, but the whole facts tell us otherwise, this very forum tell us otherwise, you want to marry? go ahead, but be prepared for anything.
He's still not doing it right. Most aren't. Then, shocked and cucked.
 

speed dawg

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actually you ARE 2 separate people, but in a ideal world, these 2 would join together and keep helping each other to keep everything ok and make things better to each other

and that is actually the whole point, you can do whatever, what I really want is everyone here do things knowing very well what they are getting, and that means not letting people think only they way is right, could I be wrong? yes, but the whole facts tell us otherwise, this very forum tell us otherwise, you want to marry? go ahead, but be prepared for anything.
No doubt about this. There is no ideal world when it comes to women. There is the reality, and you either play by those rules or you get left out.

I don't agree with the 50/50 splits and all that stuff. You marry then divorce, you split it in half, IMO, unless you get a prenup, which almost no women will agree to, because most times they are marrying you for that security.

Where the courts start screwing over the men is when kids are involved. Most men are still so infatuated with their wives that they get emotional and don't use their head. If they'd do that, they could probably take these women to the cleaners in these proceedings. Have you EVER heard of a divorced man that recorded in a journal all the BS a woman put him through before the divorce? Sh*t no, he was too busy trying to win her back, while she and her new c*ck-donator (most likely another beta, just the NEW beta with more money) are scheming with a lawyer to rip the guy's guts out. It's ridiculous.
 
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