Question: So How Do You Know When You Are Finished?

[Tenacity]

So I know I have a couple open threads, but I wanted to start this new one as it's a different topic.

So the process usually goes for guys like us, is that we start out as the AFC or the Nice Guy right? Then we get our heartbroken or walked over, then we search for answers because the women, our family nor our friends really provide any. You find Sosuave or another Seduction site, you discover some issues that you have with your confidence, personality, dressing style, etc., and you go out and continue talking to women, spinning plates, etc. After doing the updates you should see improvements in terms of how women respond.

My question is, how do you know when you have done all the work you can reasonably DO on yourself, or when you still need more work done to be the "so called" BEST you that YOU can be?

I ask this because as I sit here and look at my dating life, I'm very disappointed. I'm disappointed because I was honestly under the impression that I would have found the type of woman that I WANT by now, and I wouldn't even have totally forgone marriage and now even potentially be looking at not creating children either.

The women I get (defined as the women that accept my advances, go on dates, sex, etc.) are always these types as I covered in another thread:

- Single mother, finances are horrible, looks are average. Issues with her is that because her finances are horrible she often asks for me to bail her out of shyt that me (having a degree in Accounting) can clearly see she needs work with budgeting, career planning, etc. but she REFUSES to accept anything I tell her to fix her situation. Instead, she just wants me to bail her out and I DO NOT DO THAT as that goes against my boundaries in a relationship. So basically all I can do is very short term shyt with this girl.

- Single mother, finances are good, looks are average. Because the looks are off I wouldn't consider this one, plus the single mother thing is not what I want either. So with this girl like the prior, all I can do is short term shyt.

- No kids, finances are horrible, looks are average. Finances are off and looks are off, once again, all I can do is short term shyt.

The girl I want is one with no kids, finance are good, looks are above average, and who currently has high interest. That's it. And I can't find this girl.

I have literally been OUT THERE for the last 4-5 years. The only type of women I meet are the three types I listed above. But I don't see how the woman I want is so hard to find?

I'm disappointed because I can't find this woman, and two, I'm also wondering if I'M the cause of it? Maybe I'm not finished yet as a Man/Person and I have more learning to do to improve my game? I will tell you that I'm 31, I got a nice car, I make good money, no kids, women "for the most part" say that I'm "cute," I have NO issues starting up a conversation or being the LIFE of the party, I have NO issues getting and meeting new women online, in person, whereever. Over the last 4-5 years I have been on consistent dates and met a TON of women (and fvcked them too). I do have some issues on the side in terms of anger though, I have been through a lot of personal issues in my life from being homeless, having a VERY fvcked up family structure (basically no family), etc. I don't let this get in the way with me and the girl though.

But I'm honestly wanting to be in a serious relationship, and I'm disappointed that I haven't found this girl that I'm looking for yet. I'm wondering, could it be something I'm doing wrong? Or is the ENVIRONMENT just THIS fvcked up? I'm starting to become bitter over this, and the anger is eating at me on the inside to be honest.

 

[Desdinova]

My question is, how do you know when you have done all the work you can reasonably DO on yourself, or when you still need more work done to be the "so called" BEST you that YOU can be?

I've been here since 2001. I'm NEVER finished working on myself.

I ask this because as I sit here and look at my dating life, I'm very disappointed. I'm disappointed because I was honestly under the impression that I would have found the type of woman that I WANT by now, and I wouldn't even have totally forgone marriage and now even potentially be looking at not creating children either.

What I've discovered over the years is that there are a LOT of sub-par women out there. There's more in the "pretty good" category, but finding ones in the "stellar" category is a very long process. You have to date lots of women in the other two categories to discover what they're really like, and toss them away when you discover they're lousy candidates for companions.

When it comes to having a child, there's always adoption or having a surrogate mother.

- Single mother, finances are good, looks are average. Because the looks are off I wouldn't consider this one, plus the single mother thing is not what I want either. So with this girl like the prior, all I can do is short term shyt.

If you are child-less, then quit pursuing single moms. There's lots of childless women out there, and don't chase the ones in your age group. Go for women in the 23-27 age range. Those are the ones who are done the party phase and don't yet have the biological clock screaming at them.

The girl I want is one with no kids, finance are good, looks are above average, and who currently has high interest. That's it. And I can't find this girl.

To catch a valuable woman, you have to first make yourself valuable.

Also, beware of the "finances are good" subject. Getting a woman who's highly devoted to working will be absent from your life. Find a woman who doesn't jump from job to job, and you're good to go. It doesn't matter what her line of work is, just as long as she's stable with the job she chose. Oh yeah, and she shouldn't be blowing her money on crap either. If her family was poor, she's going to be smarter with money.

But I'm honestly wanting to be in a serious relationship, and I'm disappointed that I haven't found this girl that I'm looking for yet. I'm wondering, could it be something I'm doing wrong? Or is the ENVIRONMENT just THIS fvcked up? I'm starting to become bitter over this, and the anger is eating at me on the inside to be honest.

The best way to meet more "quality" women is to build up a social circle. Friends will have girlfriends, and their girlfriends will have single friends or relatives. Every once in a while, one of the girlfriends will invite their single friend / relative to hang out with the circle. THOSE are the women you go for. Also, don't fvck the women in your social circle.

It takes time to dig up the more quality women, but they're certainly worth it when you do. Don't give up, and don't settle for someone who's "good enough"

 

[Tictac]

Enjoy the journey because that's all there is.

Perfection is a necessary if unattainable goal.

 

[Tenacity]

Guys, thanks for the great replies. Desa I wanted to go a little deeper into some of the things you said, with more questions/comments?

I've been here since 2001. I'm NEVER finished working on myself.

I know that there should always be something in life or especially with our career that we are continually trying to learn, figure out, develop, etc. But I'm talking in relation to "who I am" in relation to women in general such as how I treat them, engage, my personality, etc. Basically, if I were writing a stage play, I'm referring to "Character Development." My question is, how do you know the Character is done and it's time to say, okay, this is the BEST the Character can reasonably be and put him on stage?

I'm asking this to try and pin down are some of the issues I'm having meeting the woman I want, a result of me not being "fully the Character I want to be" yet or if the Character is complete but the marketplace just doesn't produce such a woman....which would mean my criteria would need to change or I would have to give up on the concept of a long term serious relationship and KEEP doing short term flings the rest of my life.

It just feels like, I've come full circle and I'm at the "best" guy I could be as an overall package. I mean I'm 31, no kids, money is good, car is new, nice place to stay, my looks are right, I can go out and bring in new women and SPIN women.....I'm not going to be any better than this for the most part as I will continue to age and my looks will go down. It's as IF there's this woman out there that I want, it's like I have done the needed improvements in myself to now is the time to get her or the time she should already BE HERE.

I'm disappointed as to the results of women that are available and that I have been getting. It feels like preparing for and running in a race, you WIN the race and are expecting that Gold at the end of the finish line but when you get there....all they have is bronze.

My fear right now (which has led to disappointment and anger), is that I have peaked with women. That what I'm getting from women right now is the BEST it's going to get. Which means I will only truly pull subpar women or women with some type of major issue (single mother or financial issue or looks are average/she's fat), who will have either mild or high interest, and in which the relationship (ONS, dating or short term relationship) will last anywhere from 1 week - 1 year. I fear that this is my PEAK with women. Even from what I get right now, the only value is having someone there with you and sex, I don't even feel as though the women could give a rat's a.ss about me if I were laid up in a hospital bed tomorrow.

I mean, it's just fvcked up and it pisses me off cause I was EXPECTING more.

 

[guru1000]

Tenacity, it's not complicated.

Answer these questions honestly. Put money and quality aside for a moment.

Where are you on the looks scale, 1-10?
Where on the scale are the women you attract?
Where on the scale are the women you want but cannot attract?

 

[Tenacity]

Where are you on the looks scale, 1-10?

I would say, a 6. I don't get women saying I'm drop dead sexy, but I don't get women for the most part saying I'm ugly. I get most of the time that I'm "cute" or "you are straight" so I would say about a 6. And understand I had to put EFFORT into getting to just a 6, I was a 3 at one time I would say. I don't think I can be higher than a 6 though.


Where on the scale are the women you attract?

In terms of looks? Well, I had what I would deem a 8 or 9 before, three of those actually. I would say for the MOST part the women are around a 4-7. A 4 would be a girl with a pretty/cute face but she's fat.


Where on the scale are the women you want but cannot attract?

In terms of looks I assume? I would prefer a 7-9 honestly. I don't think with guys that being a 8 or 9 in looks is a requirement to have a girl that's a 8 or 9 in looks, because I think with guys you have to bring the total package which is what "I think" I bring? Maybe not though......

 

[guru1000]

I have dated over 500+ women. I have also been married to a 9. Today, I’m a 9 myself. I have also been a 7, when I stopped taking care of myself.

Experientially, it is very difficult to secure a women that is 1+ point above your looks. I said “very difficult,” not impossible. If you have extreme wealth or status, the 1+ point above rule does not apply.

You have your life together and I applaud you for that. But remember, having your sh*t together does not translate into your breaking the 1+ point rule. So if you are a 6, at the very best, you are likely to secure a 7 long-term. However, you will have to work for/game and maintain that 7 if she is of “quality,” as she has higher sexual market value.

I find the easiest path is the one with the least resistance. What can you improve in your physicality?

• A fitness model physique? 1-2+ points on the scale.
• Dress, style: +1/2 pt.
• Physical features that can be enhanced; i.e., chin and nose augmentation, skin treatments, teeth? Plastic surgery is a cost-effective option, 2+ pts.

If you desire a high-interest, high-quality 7-9, you will need to be a 7-9 yourself.

Work on your physicality. You will find this to be the most effectual method to attaining your goal.

 

[Tenacity]

Guru, you want me to post my pics? Idk if I can post them here on the forum or send in PM....I think I'm a 6, maybe I'm not? But my teeth are straight, I already workout (have a nice 4 pack lol), etc. I have a great car, nice apartment, I make good money.

Maybe I'm higher than a 6 and being hard on myself? I can post pics if you want here or in private and you tell me what you think.

 

[guru1000]

Send them, either way. I'll give an honest assessment.

 

[The_411]

The key is to get to an environment where the women with the qualities you are looking for hang out.

Given your age, 31, I'd recommend a 25-28 year old woman. Any younger and she's probably still partying any older she's in baby fever mode.

Try not to waste any more time then you have to with single mothers, which means filter women on that area early if you can preferably before going out on a date.

Don't neglect what's gone on in the past you may need to get some therapy as you could be subconsciously giving off body language that comes off as intimidating/angry.

This also could be reason you're attracting low quality women.

The key is to filter by location and filter when you see red flags and not to ignore them.

 

[Tenacity]

411,

Thanks, I'm looking into a good therapist right now. Before I got on my feet I went through a period of being homeless and as I said, my family structure situation is and has always been totally messed up. If I could get some assistance with dealing with the minor bouts of depression and anger I get at the WORLD in general that would be great.


Guru,

I sent the pics in the IM, it's a link to my POF profile cause I don't know how to attach pics on here. If anybody else wants to review that's fine, I would rather put the link in PM because I don't believe it would show up in a Google Search lol.

 

[synergy1]

you are never your best, as the best is a theoretical abstract concept if we are talking outside the athletic realm ( most athletes peak at certain ages in certain sports). However, there comes a point where your best won't live up to your expectations due to whatever limitations that might exist ( lack of extreme ____ that women find attractive). It sounds like you are at that point. Its like a plateau when you work out.

Another concept to consider is location - a stud in the wrong location can have awful success, and an average guy in the right place can have all the types of women they want. The concept is simple- abundance. If it exists , than you should be doing well. This is one thing about the proponents of plate theory that gets me...sometimes there aren't any plates to spin and scarcity is a reality and not just a mind set. I digress.

Whatever wall you hit in life is something you will have to handle. Change something up. Be it your careers, friends, value systems. I honestly believe that most people lost their sense of purpose as they get older. If you keep that sense of purpose alive and well, than good things can happen

 

[guru1000]

Tenacity, I looked at your photos. You are a raw 7. My recommendations follow:

1. Change your attire. The sweater is unprepossessing and baggy, and detracts from your persona. Buy some high-quality button-down shirts, with sleeves rolled, and fitting, quality jeans, and non-squared toed shoes. If you wear the right gear, you will see a dramatic improvement.

2. Try 2-3 chemical peels. Nothing is more presentable than flawless skin. Chemical peels are cheap, $300 a pop.

3. Tighten up your hair. Looks like you woke up and left it that way.

4. Rid yourself of facial hair. Unless you are covering a weak chin, your facial hair detracts from your appearance. Better to present a clean-cut appearance, especially if you are a professional.

Your clothes are so baggy that I can’t ascertain if you have a physique. What is your height, weight? I bet you can improve the physique, but I cannot make a recommendation with those pics.

You have a good-looking raw appearance, but between the clothes, hair, facial hair, and skin, you appear unkempt. With the attire, chemical peels, and hair revisions, you will appear as a solid 8.5, and attracting quality 8-9s with little effort. With a stronger physique, if necessary, perhaps higher.

 

[Tenacity]

synergy,

Thanks for that and yes, I agree. I'm trying to hold on to my sense of purpose overall, everything else (financial, workout, etc) is going great, but my personal life (women, family, etc) is what's been causing the downtimes.


Guru,

Thanks so much man, so you think I'm a 7 right now? Yes, I totally agree those pics I kind if just SNAPPED in a hurry and put up lol. I know I need to take better pictures. The funny thing is though is that my NORMAL wear is:

- Button down shirts
- Jeans
- Watch
- Earrings
- Polo Shoes

That's my normal wear, I might wear some "hip hop" like styles but I have gotten away from that now that I'm in my 30s lol. But yes, I know I need to snap better pictures.

I'm going to take some more here most likely tonight. But you think I might be a 7 right now based on those pics? Which would mean in person I"m a 8 cause in person I pretty much dress the way you suggested.

I wonder then still....have I peaked then? Meaning if I'm already an 8 give or take....then are the women I'm meeting the best I can do? I do workout, and yes, my clothes are bigger than what they need to be cause I just don't like wearing the "muscle-tight" clothes you know? What I was going to do was take pictures with my shirt off or just with an A-Shirt on and put them up as well.

I have car pics too.

 

[guru1000]

Shoes and watch are paramount among the attire. Throw out the polo shoes. I wear these shoes. I wear a presidential Rolex watch (Look at my 25-year old pic at the Health and Fitness thread for my watch.)

Muscle-bound or not, the shirt and jeans should be tight fitting.

Earring?? You are a 31-year old professional looking for a quality contender; why are you wearing an earring?

Don’t post a car pic. I drive a S550 Benz, but nobody would know this until they see it. If you flaunt your assets, you are trying too hard in prizing yourself, most often misconstrued to guise your shortcomings. Let the women discover these treasures on their own, not solicited or encouraged by you.

 

[Tenacity]

Guru,

Well, let me ask you something lol? Do you think I would look a little "sweet" with tighter closes on though? I mean idk, plus I'm African American too so...it's a little bit out of our culture but I see the R&B guys get away with it.

 

[guru1000]

If you want to date 9s and 10s (the top 1%), your appearance must be impeccable. That is, tailor-made suits at the office, and tighter-fitting (not to be confused with skin-hugging) casual attire. You must look sharp! Sharp and baggy cannot coexist, irrespective of the color of your skin.

Forget about “sweet” or “not sweet.” Are you slave to social conventions or a man who takes what he wants irrespective of the perceived social “cost”? BTW, a guy would have to be quite doltish to negatively comment on my clothes; I'm no small guy.

I receive consistent praise from 9s and 10s relating to my attire. My attire is not a debatable topic at this point for me.

 

[Desdinova]

I know that there should always be something in life or especially with our career that we are continually trying to learn, figure out, develop, etc. But I'm talking in relation to "who I am" in relation to women in general such as how I treat them, engage, my personality, etc. Basically, if I were writing a stage play, I'm referring to "Character Development." My question is, how do you know the Character is done and it's time to say, okay, this is the BEST the Character can reasonably be and put him on stage?

I don't think you can really pinpoint a particular level that identifies you as "finished" when it comes to evolving as a Don Juan. In order to figure out where you are in your journey, you need to listen to the feedback you're getting. If you're getting nothing but HB4s and fatties, then you still have a lot of work to do on yourself. If you're getting women all over the looks scale as well as all over the age range, then you're on the right track. If you can get all of that with minimal effort on your part to pursue, you've reached an incredible level in your journey.

When you can attract 50% or more of the women you come in contact with, then your chances of landing the type of woman YOU want greatly increase.

if the Character is complete but the marketplace just doesn't produce such a woman....which would mean my criteria would need to change or I would have to give up on the concept of a long term serious relationship and KEEP doing short term flings the rest of my life.

All women are damaged to some degree and in different areas of their lives. When you begin dating a woman, you need to be constantly analyzing what her flaws are in relation to what you desire in your ideal companion, and decide if you can tolerate those flaws. If they impede the ability for you to function in the relationship, then you know those flaws are intolerable.

It just feels like, I've come full circle and I'm at the "best" guy I could be as an overall package. I mean I'm 31, no kids, money is good, car is new, nice place to stay, my looks are right, I can go out and bring in new women and SPIN women

It's great that you've conquered the physical and financial aspects of your life. But what about the rest? What about the "inner game"? Can you entertain a woman (and not in a sexual way) for 4 hours with no money and no planned activity? If you can do that, then you've got a good "inner game".

My fear right now (which has led to disappointment and anger), is that I have peaked with women. That what I'm getting from women right now is the BEST it's going to get.

Your self-sabotaging attitude will prevent you from achieving higher quality women. You will continue to scrape the bottom of the barrel if you truly believe that's where the best stuff is.

I mean, it's just fvcked up and it pisses me off cause I was EXPECTING more

There's nothing wrong with expecting more because you want the best woman you can find if you plan on settling with her. The good news is you're only 31. I'm in my mid-30s and dating has been fvcking awesome! There's such a wide range of women to choose from, but your best bet is women age 23-27. THAT is where you're going to potentially find a quality mate. Anything younger is too immature, anything older is too jaded and desperate.

 

[zekko]

All women are damaged to some degree and in different areas of their lives.

Yes, this is just common sense. Nobody is perfect.

It's great that you've conquered the physical and financial aspects of your life. But what about the rest? What about the "inner game"? Can you entertain a woman (and not in a sexual way) for 4 hours with no money and no planned activity? If you can do that, then you've got a good "inner game".

Interesting. I've always considered the term "inner game" to refer mainly to your self esteem, confidence, and sense of entitlement. Entertaining someone for four hours, that's just being good company.

 

[jimmy18]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gryAloc2GQU

"WINS" - Work out, nutrition, image (or fashion) and SHUT THE FVCK UP. Maximize what you have with basic common sense measures, and beyond that shut up and focus on the things YOU CAN CONTROL.