Pull your therapist

[Divorced w 3]

I commend you for getting real with yourself. I also respect you sharing some of your own story. Many people can't or won't do that.

Now you can live in a more authentic way, and without the shame & the 'shoulds' BS. You can model healthier behavior for your own kids. I see similar patterns in my husband, who behaves in a similar way but I think is too bound up in trying to gain acceptance from mom & dad (subconsciously), and he cycles like that too (although I do not think he is cheating) emotionally.

He starts therapy & craps out after 2-3 sessions when the questions become pointed at HIS behavior. He's still wrestling with the objective reality of his ASD diagnosis which was authoritatively confirmed earlier this year and he cannot tell me I'm full of crap about that any more. He is generally conflict avoidant until he isn't and then we get the melt downs. Awesome.

I dealt with my own family of origin crap in my 20s, and then had a number of sobering life lessons through my first marriage & subsequent divorce. Interestingly my first husband openly agrees that I did the correct thing in leaving him. Why? Only then did his pain of existing become great enough for him to grapple with himself.

I have said many times here that loss is a brutal teacher. But there are those of us who need a hard lesson to pull our head out of our asses. I do not exclude myself in this, either. Some of us frankly are that dense, aka stubborn, aka strong.

But real strength lies in authenticity and being Ok with one's flaws, and that self acceptance makes tolerating imperfections in others much easier, much more graceful.

And therein lies authentic personal power. Limitless personal power and love.

I digress.

Things with my husband have been improving. He will always manifest some of the behavioral hallmarks of ASD, even though he also has some super sized abilities attributable to that operating system too...he is talking more about things that hurt, like his mother constantly choosing his younger brother over him (younger brother is mid-40s, very handsome/fit/successful but never married). He thinks his mother is jealous of my role in his life & frankly I agree. She was able to milk both sons for attention and affection at the drop of a hat, and yet she was neglectful of them and abandoned them as young boys and she expects them to jump if she reaches out, but she is in no hurry to reciprocate if my husband makes an effort.

My husband is becoming more & more aware of the manipulation of his mother, the gaslighting, the passive aggresiveness, the phoniness. Then in contrast he gets very direct messaging from me. I am not conflict averse & I call it like I see it. I've told him to call his mother up and ask her a direct question, to put her on the spot. I sit quietly and listen and she is on speaker. My mother-in-law will flatter him, stroke his ego, lie & act all unicorns and rainbows but if my husband presses her and keeps calling her out the flowery flattery parade ends abruptly, she turns on the waterworks and hangs up on him.

She never answers him or acknowledges her bad behavior.

But he can observe her attempts at manipulation in that way....and he is realizing some important things (not the least of which is the tremendous patience I am demonstrating in sticking with the marriage).

It has been an eye opening but sad journey for him as he becomes disillusioned.

But infatuation with the therapist is a known part of the journey....so I pick the therapists around here, lol.

Thank you for sharing that. She is the strongest person I know and shes 105lb soaking wet.

We have spoken again. She didn’t want to at first but she has slowly let me work back in. I am trying my best to be emotionally available and honest.

We had dinner Monday and I helped her clean her place; Tuesday I shot into the city so she didn’t have to take the train back cold and freeze and we had dinner; Friday she’s coming over for dinner, movie and we’re getting breakfast Saturday and cleaning her place more. We chat now during the day, mostly on my initiative, we are in the hand holding and cuddling phase, yesterday I got a kiss on the cheek that I had to ask for, for picking her up and that’s really because I suggested it. That is where we are at right now. I used to have no rules barred sex with this woman twice a day. She’s scared of me and rightfully so. It blows. I am ‘that guy’. It hurts so much that I hurt her. It hurts so much to realize who I am and who I didn’t have to be and could have been instead.

We say I love you. I have an engagement ring in my dresser that she doesn’t want now. It just sucks.

I will say this: anyone who thinks some woman is going to just do and live however they want- yeah someone will, and your same attitude will be the reason you lose it, and didn’t nurture it and I will never go down that path again.

 

[Alwaysclose7]

I appreciate all the feedback. Honestly my mental health is pristine. I see her because I’m scaling a business and she helps with day to day bull**** I deal with. Having business partners who are high maintenance brings a lot of stress. She helps me reset. She’s older, and she really cute and single has two cats. I’m just going with the flow. We’ll see what happens. That being said. How’s everyone doing? I don’t use dating apps. I’m a real life guy. I really like this girl she’s close to a hb 9..I’m 29..she’s 30..she’s so ****ing hot..I just hope when I shoot my shot I can make her laugh and get some ioi’s..also I used ****y funny tonight..literally had a girl prob a blonde 6 like trying hard to get my attention and approach her again lolol…what’s working for you guys? Also I don’t use social media or dating apps..just real life approaches..and I don’t go to places to approach woman like a dork..if it comes across my eyes while handling life..I set the stage

 

[Bokanovsky]

I may as well add this on the topic of therapeutic introspection: I am a child of severe abuse and emotional trauma and I suppressed it for so long - I didn’t even have an interest to do the real work until I lost my best friend and the truest love of my life. I was living wrong in every way - I am a d1ck and egotistical bastard on this forum - I was living fast and loose in my career - I was an a$$ in my former marriage, people were simply a means to an end for me, I always wanted my edge from what they did for me - and needless to say I applied that to the incredible human being whom took me and my children on and played Mom to them like nobody would imagine. So what did I do with that ego, I would first get massively angry, and talk trash, physically and emotionally act out, and then I would rush towards avoidance and retribution in the name of ego boost by getting validation at the bar, on the apps, or reaching out to women who would still take my call, showing up, having sex with them, say I’d call them and I’d disappear into the ether for 6 months or longer and, then go back and rekindle my girlfriend who would be begging to return and she’d be intimate with me and was none the wiser. Absolutely and totally shameful way to live.

I agree that it's a shameful way to live. But the "incredible human being" in your story obviously has her own issues if she's willing to put with that sh!t (no sane and self-respecting woman would). In fact, I'm willing to bet she had nicer, more decent men express interest but chose you because she is drawn to abusive, toxic men. She's no angel.

 

[Bokanovsky]

But infatuation with the therapist is a known part of the journey....so I pick the therapists around here, lol.

Advice from a middle-aged gent (that I know you're not going to take). If you want to salvage your marriage, stop pushing your husband into therapy. In fact, remove the word "therapy" from your vocabulary. You cannot cure autism through therapy and you most certainly cannot turn a grown-@ss man into a different person through therapy. You may think that you're trying to help him but what you are really doing is imposing your will. To satisfy your own need to feel in control.

Mark my words: if you keep doing what you're doing, you will be filing for another divorce in a year or two.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I appreciate all the feedback. Honestly my mental health is pristine. I see her because I’m scaling a business and she helps with day to day bull**** I deal with. Having business partners who are high maintenance brings a lot of stress

If you really must give into this urge to boff your shrink, try mightily to only do so AFTER she's instilled in you the knowledge that people, places, and things in and of themselves DO NOT create the emotions we experience, "stress" included... Our own thoughts and beliefs about them do

 

[Divorced w 3]

I agree that it's a shameful way to live. But the "incredible human being" in your story obviously has her own issues if she's willing to put with that sh!t (no sane and self-respecting woman would). In fact, I'm willing to bet she had nicer, more decent men express interest but chose you because she is drawn to abusive, toxic men. She's no angel.

That doesn’t excuse any of it. Don’t attempt to.

 

[Bokanovsky]

That doesn’t excuse any of it. Don’t attempt to.

You misunderstood my post. I'm not suggesting there is an excuse for your behavior.

 

[Divorced w 3]

You misunderstood my post. I'm not suggesting there is an excuse for your behavior.

No, I didn't. I would take a good hard look at what you said. The 'she's no angel' comment sealed it, and there's also no reason to minimize her goodness in the context of the point you were trying to make.

I don't need an out or any excuses to justify why things happened or the conditions that developed to allow such things to happen.

Nor, should anyone be under the impression that at any point, one shouldn't just wake up and stop such behavior in its tracks regardless of the other party not having the constitution to do it themselves.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Everyone watching too much porn.

 

[BeExcellent]

You are making erroneous assumptions @Bokanovsky. When he has sought therapy (his idea, not mine)....he has asked me to find him "someone good". I have agreed to help him in that. It allows me to find a well qualified experienced practitioner and he does not have the patience for that anyway.

Actually I'm not pushing him into therapy at all. And no shjt Sherlock about the ASD. He has had adverse outcomes secondary to missing social cues and lack of soft skills all his adult life and he has sought out therapy to get his condition confirmed and to explore better coping skills in interactions and relationships.

I have no need to control. In fact, he has watched me NOT control and be chill about so many things that he has learned to let little things go (like someone driving like an idiot on the freeway) that used to get him very riled up and angry.

Living day in & day out with ASD is not for sissies. We have met another couple very similar to us (He is ASD with a masters in mathematics and he masks very well socially but still hates socializing.) They are married 10 years. Its been refreshing to spend time with them.

I could care less if he or we do therapy. He can drive that (and always has). You see he initially wanted to use therapy to impose his will to control me. THAT is why the therapists began to focus on his behavior, because they could tell very quickly that rather than lead the relationship and stay in his lane, he sought to control everything (including how I parent and how I run my businesses - things that are none of his business & where he has no knowledge or frame of reference.) In contrast I would never try and tell him how to code for example. And that is why he quit therapy each time too. The therapists were onto his tactic very quickly and began trying to drill down into his behavior, which he didn't like. He unwilling to look at himself. Ok. Fine. Money not spent.

He has relaxed a great deal and learned to stay in his own lane but that has taken time on his part & patience/boundaries on my part.

We will be just fine. Don't worry.

 

[Divorced w 3]

You are making erroneous assumptions @Bokanovsky. When he has sought therapy (his idea, not mine)....he has asked me to find him "someone good". I have agreed to help him in that. It allows me to find a well qualified experienced practitioner and he does not have the patience for that anyway.

Actually I'm not pushing him into therapy at all. And no shjt Sherlock about the ASD. He has had adverse outcomes secondary to missing social cues and lack of soft skills all his adult life and he has sought out therapy to get his condition confirmed and to explore better coping skills in interactions and relationships.

Living day in & day out with ASD is not for sissies. We have met another couple very similar to us (He is ASD with a masters in mathematics and he masks very well socially but still hates socializing.) They are married 10 years. Its been refreshing to spend time with them.

We will be just fine. Don't worry.

As long as he found his own way to therapy, his asking your help in his therapy, could be a good thing. It's whether or not it's a vulnerability and a bonding gesture, or theater, or theater that he's not willing to admit and think about that he's putting on because it would be uncomfortable to admit the cracks in his entire personal foundation. I'm only speaking from personal experience. We did the assisted help in searching and a couple joint check-ins and I simply spun it towards my own benefit when she left the meetings and onwards. Not many grown adults want to own that stuff, I read a book on the matter and it's really low, like sub 10%.

 

[BeExcellent]

Correct. He does exactly as you did. Everything 100% my fault, 0% his fault and blame me for everything.

Obvious as the nose on a face who the real problem is in that situation. So of course the therapists then focus on him (not what he bargained for) and then he'd refuse to go because he was unable to manipulate them (he cannot maniulate me either which was why he really wanted to go in the first place)...to enlist them to help him control me.

Nope. Thanks for playing.

These are his family of origin issues and they are bubbling to the surface lately without therapy. He is not trying to control me constantly either now. Its a process.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Correct. He does exactly as you did. Everything 100% my fault, 0% his fault and blame me for everything.

Obvious as the nose on a face who the real problem is in that situation. So of course the therapists then focus on him (not what he bargained for) and then he'd refuse to go because he was unable to manipulate them (he cannot maniulate me either which was why he really wanted to go in the first place)...to enlist them to help him control me.

Nope. Thanks for playing.

These are his family of origin issues and they are bubbling to the surface lately without therapy. He is not trying to control me constantly either now. Its a process.

I give you a lot of credit. I don’t know what adjectives you guys are using to describe this, but mine started with an ‘A’ and rhyme with ‘excuse’ to describe control, gaslighting and misplacing blame / lack of personal ownership of behavior.

 

[Bokanovsky]

No, I didn't. I would take a good hard look at what you said. The 'she's no angel' comment sealed it, and there's also no reason to minimize her goodness in the context of the point you were trying to make.

I don't need an out or any excuses to justify why things happened or the conditions that developed to allow such things to happen.

Nor, should anyone be under the impression that at any point, one shouldn't just wake up and stop such behavior in its tracks regardless of the other party not having the constitution to do it themselves.

My point is that like attracts like. I don't know why you took that as an attempt to "excuse" your behaviour. But then again, it doesn't sound like your brain is functioning properly (by your own admission).

 

[Divorced w 3]

My point is that like attracts like. I don't know why you took that as an attempt to "excuse" your behaviour. But then again, it doesn't sound like your brain is functioning properly (by your own admission).

Yes you did excuse it. Her personality has nothing to do with the matter.

Do you always resort to name calling to make your case about the wrongness of abuse?

 

[BeExcellent]

Well I like the playboy archetype & edgy men. I've been very open about that around here forever. And no I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty dam transparent. My advice comes out of life experience and observation of others with applicable life experience.

Not sure why that is news or why the need (Yawn - again) to lampoon me.

Typically player type men carry trauma from the past (often why they pursue that way of existing.) My husband has many wonderful qualities that are the reason I love him & married him. And those things are not to do with looks. He is an imperfect human as we all are.

I'd challenge the one doing the criticizing to share his life as openly as I share mine.

He won't.

I share so others may relate, learn or benefit. But of course that means some also take cheap shots. Ok....just shows who has a need to tear me down for whatever reason & that is about the poster taking pot shots & independent of me (shrugs).

 

[Bokanovsky]

Yes you did excuse it. Her personality has nothing to do with the matter.

Do you always resort to name calling to make your case about the wrongness of abuse?

You are one stubborn SOB, aren't you? Fine, think what you want. Obviously, you know what was going on in my head when I wrote that comment better than I do.

If I didn't call you names, you'd accuse me for trying to excuse your delinquency.

 

[Bokanovsky]

You are making erroneous assumptions @Bokanovsky. When he has sought therapy (his idea, not mine)....he has asked me to find him "someone good". I have agreed to help him in that. It allows me to find a well qualified experienced practitioner and he does not have the patience for that anyway.

I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for $1,000, Alex.

 

[Barrister]

Yes you did excuse it. Her personality has nothing to do with the matter.

Do you always resort to name calling to make your case about the wrongness of abuse?

I think his point was that she is an adult like you are. She kept (keeps?) coming back despite the cycle you have described that she also contributed to. That isn't healthy behavior. Doesn't mean the way you acted was great by any means. This is how females act though who typically have their own deregulated emotions and behaviors.

Maybe I am not reading the post correctly, but I think Bokanovsky was actually trying to make you feel better about the situation not worse. Regardless, let's not act like she was some helpless victim. Most of us are here following bad experiences with women and know all too well how they function to ever buy that narrative.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I think his point was that she is an adult like you are. She kept (keeps?) coming back despite the cycle you have described that she also contributed to. That isn't healthy behavior. Doesn't mean the way you acted was great by any means. This is how females act though who typically have their own deregulated emotions and behaviors.

Maybe I am not reading the post correctly, but I think Bokanovsky was actually trying to make you feel better about the situation not worse. Regardless, let's not act like she was some helpless victim. Most of us are here following bad experiences with women and know all too well how they function to ever buy that narrative.

Yeah, I’m good. I understand it’s a public forum but nobody asked him to intervene in a conversation I was having with @BeExcellent so it’s pretty transparent why Perpetually Butthurt @Bokanovsky is upset that an opinion he wasn’t asked for isn’t landing.

As for reassurance, I’m good there as well. It’s like telling the Cobra Kai that it made sense that they were breaking submissive opponents’ appendages in point-based competition just because the opponent showed up. The last thing guys in that frame of mind need is justification.