protein shake before or after cardio?

nubian-knight

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
144
Reaction score
1
Location
Oakland, California
i usually hit the weights for 1 - 1.5 hours then do around low intesnity cardio for 30 - 45 min after my weight training

should i consume my protein shake BEFORE doing cardio or when im done cardio?

keep in mind, by the time i finish my cardio and drive home from the gym, around an hour will have gone by since I finished my weight training. is this too long to wait before intaking protein?
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
After cardio.

1.5 hours of weights is a long time; what are you doing during that time?
 

nubian-knight

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
144
Reaction score
1
Location
Oakland, California
simon said:
After cardio.

1.5 hours of weights is a long time; what are you doing during that time?

well thats at the most and thats usually wen i go with a couple buddies, including breaks and all that

but whats the window after weight training to take in the shakes? i heard itsl ike 30 - 45 min which is why im worried.


also im hearing its better to isolate cardio completely to off days?
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
mr_elor said:
I tend to have one before AND after
I'd agree. I do the same, but just for weight lifting. I take a shake (with all sorts of stuff i've concocted into it) before a workout, and then one after. It varies after the workout as to what else is in it as i'm pretty detailed, but go with about 20g pre & 20g post workout.

Whey protein is fine. Concentrate is not quite as good as Isolate, but Conc is a better budget protein.

New research also suggest you can add the same mixture of Casein & Soy as well.

for instance you could do 10/10/10 of each.

The best combo would be... WPI CFM, Soy Isolate, and Casein.

But if money doesn't permit, just stick with a Whey.
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
He's talking about whether to drink the shake after lifting but before cardio or after the cardio after the lifting.
 

shaunuk

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
9
Location
Leeds, UK
Nah, you don't really wanna be taking soy protein. Considering guys who train are supposed to consume protein in large quantities, you'd probably end up taking in quite a lot of soy protein in your shakes..And soy ain't really very good for guys :)

It's fine for girls, though, although soy ain't the best quality of protein anyway..

-shaun
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
shaunuk said:
Nah, you don't really wanna be taking soy protein. Considering guys who train are supposed to consume protein in large quantities, you'd probably end up taking in quite a lot of soy protein in your shakes..And soy ain't really very good for guys :)

It's fine for girls, though, although soy ain't the best quality of protein anyway..

-shaun
Not the case. This used to be debated about phytoestrogens and blah blah, and was tossed around 5 years ago, and there is no more debate over soy, and never should have been.

Soy protein contains all the EAA
Soy has 4x the amount of Arginine as whey and 2x of casein.

Roughly 7.6g per 100g serv and not to mention about 10.5g of glutamine per 100g serv.

Studies prove it does just as well as a job as Whey, and the levels of test and estrogen aren't even a worry.

Now should you TOTALLY use it? NO, that's why you use the mixture. There are also antioxidants in Soy as well.

I personally use a blend. I just got done using 1/2 scoop of a 5 blend protein along with 1 scoop of CFM Whey Isolate.

I've used a small percent of soy isolate for years and never had a problem.

So your mis-informed on the quality of it, and what it has to offer. Sure most your kids and people who know nothing about this industry will tell you otherwise or make a fuss, but these are the ones who haven't researched anything, and their lack of knowledge only hurts them.

Ask how many people know about the Glut/Arg I spoke about and I would say a VERY small percent. That's because so and so's friend says take ONLY whey, soy is really bad, so on and so on, and they dont bother to dig deep in the research. I see it all the time.

BTW... Soy digests almost as quickly as whey.

-----------------------------------------------
Evansville, IN (AHN) - A new study has debunked a commonly held myth that soy protein isn't as good at helping men build muscle as whey protein is. Researchers at Indiana University's School of Medicine found that soy protein works just as well as whey protein in promoting muscle protein synthesis.

So men who have avoided eating soy protein, while they try to build muscle can start enjoying it - along with enjoying soy's health benefits of helping to lower cholesterol levels and helping avoid developing certain cancers, researchers said in a statement Thursday.

Researchers used rats in their study. They divided the rats into groups that were fed a carbohydrate only meal or a meal that combined either soy protein or whey protein with carbohydrates. They then put the rats on a treadmill for 120 minutes and tested them afterward.

They found that found soy and whey proteins were equally effective at promoting general protein synthesis in the rats' skeletal muscle.

"Taken in total, our study suggests both soy and whey proteins are useful sources of protein for muscle support following aerobic exercise," the researchers wrote.
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
Do you want some help getting off that high horse of yours?
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
simon said:
Do you want some help getting off that high horse of yours?
If you're speaking to me, there is no high horse about it. I'm just stating what are FACTS and educating people that may be told something totally different.

Personally, I dont have a problem with gaining knowledge, and the more I know the better. I'm pointing out to shaun what he may not know, hence making him more aware of this.

The goal is to maximize what you can in this industry, or at least its my goal. I dont know about you, but if you have better info, but all means i'm all ears.
 

simon

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
638
Reaction score
7
Location
England
Jokes jokes. It's good to see someone doing research on a subject and drawing their own conclusions. I've done no research on the matter so I can't question what you say, but I don't touch soy, (except for tamari on my chicken) because I try to eat as paleolithically as possible.
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
No hard feelings. I do this as my life and even run my own supplement company (well its almost off of the ground) so this is all I do. Mags, journals, industry publications, you name it, its always in the mail. Some so detailed on studies I cant even begin to comprehend, but I can get most of it.

Its just a tough industry, and as we all know there are so many contradicting things out there you really have to know your stuff. Not to mention there are over 1,000s of ingredients. I could list on here what I get sent to me every week, and the list will shock you.

In fact I may do that to show people how hard it is to keep up.
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
mrRuckus said:
Let me quote you an article that just came out, and perfectly describes what I was about ready to say as soon as I saw that link you posted.

"A majority of the anti soy press seems to be flowing from a rather small group of focused individuals gathering under a pro-dairy and red meat diet organization called the Weston Price Foundation. Founded in 1999 by Sally Fallon, its board members sound like a who's who of anti soy advocates with Ms Fallon, Mary Enig, Kaayla Daniel, & Joseph Mercola"

I wont go into the rest of it, and in fact i'll post a link to that full article.

Basically what it boils down to, is that its a bunch of garbage, and you'll realize that once you read the article, and why.

That website and those people that state that are doing it for a reason and you'll see why. And you'll get an insight on the studies from both areas.

I personally cant stand that website, and neither can other industry experts when you actually know why.

Anyway, hope this info clears up what is so wrong about that site. We like to call it politics.

I use to debate this whole soy subject 7yrs ago, and as I had predicted, the talk about people exercising and bodybuilding, and how they should stay away from it is OVER, and was years ago. Then there is your debate like the Mercola website you listed, but truth be told, there isn't much of a debate if you were to pile up all of the experts in this field. The only ones they'd be debating would be those few on that site.

I just dont want you to get misled from that site as many people do.

http://nutraceuticalsworld.texterity.com/nutraceuticalsworld/200704/?sub_id=BAu0WgjsjpaMi&pg=62
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
Omen said:
Let me quote you an article that just came out, and perfectly describes what I was about ready to say as soon as I saw that link you posted.
certainly the soy article isn't their strongest (there seems to be more innuendo than evidence, compared to some of their other articles) but i don't think most of your particular criticisms hold up.

That website and those people that state that are doing it for a reason and you'll see why. And you'll get an insight on the studies from both areas.
and the reason is...? (it's not clear to me, their agenda seems wholly motivated by a sound intellectual agenda not tied to any industry)

I personally cant stand that website, and neither can other industry experts when you actually know why.
which industry is that? the nutritionists? the supplement industry? industrial agriculture? the 'organic' agriculture industry? (an oxymoron if there ever was one) the ones they blame for ruining our health?

soooo....why?

Anyway, hope this info clears up what is so wrong about that site. We like to call it politics.
who likes to call what politics?

all of the experts in this field. The only ones they'd be debating would be those few on that site.
all of the experts in what field? nutrition? they still think saturated fats are the problem with american diets. supplements? they will say anything that increases their sales.

I just dont want you to get misled from that site as many people do.
mislead into thinking what exactly....?
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
Read that link on that post about "The Skinny on Fats" and tell me WHO that article is written by, and what group. I dont think you'll be surprised when you realize who it is.

This "industry" I am referring too would be people who make up what we talk about here on the forum. Your supplement/Nutraceutical/Nutrition industry. Not agricultural.

Politics, making money, what ever the case may be, there is a reason for that one website.

Truth be told, its all cleared up when you put your link with the link in the fats post. Kind of like solving a puzzle.

If you were to grab the people with the PhDs and MDs who know this stuff, show them that link on the fats post and the mercola link, they'd shake their heads and go... "Just as we thought" And by all means its nothing against your post or the fat post, its just a matter of who is aware of what was posted on those links, and by who. The WHO is the big part.

Let me know what the resemblance is. :yes: And when you do this for a living, you are completely aware, or have been, for quite some time about those 2 links and the whole picture behind it. To some its new, to me, its old news, and most the time when debates are talked about; whether your on the biggest bodybuilding forum on the net, or a place like this, the FIRST links posted are those exact 2. Happens quite often, which is no biggy, but if I catch it, and am at a place that talks about this stuff, i'll clear it up.
 

Throttle

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
1,844
Reaction score
10
Omen said:
Read that link on that post about "The Skinny on Fats" and tell me WHO that article is written by, and what group. I dont think you'll be surprised when you realize who it is.
no, i already knew it was the same people. it's a better article than this one, in my opinion.

This "industry" I am referring too would be people who make up what we talk about here on the forum. Your supplement/Nutraceutical/Nutrition industry. Not agricultural.
i don't talk about that industry in this forum, except to mostly steer guys away from it.

Politics, making money, what ever the case may be, there is a reason for that one website.
i'm still patiently waiting for what's wrong with their mission. here's their agenda:

* To return nutrient-dense foods to American tables
* To provide accurate nutrition information to the public and government officials
* To perform much needed independent research on the nutrient qualities of foods grown and prepared by various methods
* To reach future parents with the information they need to have healthy babies
* To advocate legislation that will provide more accurate labeling and allow farmers to receive a fair price for providing nutrient-dense organic food
* To continue in our efforts to legalize clean, certified raw milk in all states
* To alert the public and government officials about the dangers of soy infant formula

That's a political agenda I can get behind. I don't know if soy milk is harmful to babies, but breastmilk should be fine for most. Otherwise I'm wondering what's wrong with this list, except that it doesn't leave much room for the supplement industry to sell me crap I don't need.

If you were to grab the people with the PhDs and MDs who know this stuff, show them that link on the fats post and the mercola link, they'd shake their heads and go... "Just as we thought" And by all means its nothing against your post or the fat post, its just a matter of who is aware of what was posted on those links, and by who. The WHO is the big part.
as a PhD student in my field of choice (not a credential I whip out around here b/c it's not very relevant) let me say that I don't ask the opinions of my fellow MAs & PhDs in my field b/c I think many if not most of them are full of crap. I see no reason why a field like nutrition should be any different.

I'm wondering why these individuals produce a head-shaking response -- what's their agenda? I'm still patiently waiting to hear about their wrong-headed agenda, or their paymasters who are secretly out to harm us.

but if I catch it, and am at a place that talks about this stuff, i'll clear it up.
I'm still waiting for clarity. Enlighten me.
 

mrRuckus

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
4,451
Reaction score
87
Throttle said:
as a PhD student in my field of choice (not a credential I whip out around here b/c it's not very relevant) let me say that I don't ask the opinions of my fellow MAs & PhDs in my field b/c I think many if not most of them are full of crap. I see no reason why a field like nutrition should be any different.
Yeah man, education is bullsh1t. They give any monkey a degree nowadays.

Even the majority of undergrads I went to school with were clueless from freshman year to the the day they graduated. If you do some work, show up, and pay money then basically you get a degree. Who cares if you really don't know much? The same with high school. Gold stars for everybuddy!

A degree used to mean something. Now I work with these guys on real world projects and they barely know the basics if they have a grasp on them at all. How the hell did they get through any classes?

It completely boggles me how so many freshmen drop out... or switch majors because the one they chose was too hard.
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
mrRuckus said:
Yeah man, education is bullsh1t. They give any monkey a degree nowadays.

Even the majority of undergrads I went to school with were clueless from freshman year to the the day they graduated. If you do some work, show up, and pay money then basically you get a degree. Who cares if you really don't know much? The same with high school. Gold stars for everybuddy!

A degree used to mean something. Now I work with these guys on real world projects and they barely know the basics if they have a grasp on them at all. How the hell did they get through any classes?

It completely boggles me how so many freshmen drop out... or switch majors because the one they chose was too hard.
Unfortunately I dont think it will get better. I had a professor once say the same thing about how its just enough to get by, or how you should know what X is by now.

Some professors care, some give so much extra credit it is so easy to pass, etc etc.

I've also seen people that will ace a test, but when it comes to hands on experience you shake your head and go... &*%^$.

They suck when it comes to hands on, but do great on tests just cause they dont have a life. Then try to apply it, and not even close. I'm like... What the hell is that girl doing? Didn't she learn anything? Maybe she got good grades on tests, but she has no idea how to even train that guy. :kick:
 

mrRuckus

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
4,451
Reaction score
87
Omen said:
Some professors care, some give so much extra credit it is so easy to pass, etc etc.
:
I despise extra credit.

For one it devalues my A that was actually earned.

And the other thing is that if you really wanted a good grade you should have thought of that before you barely studied for a test or skipped a bunch of classes... not expect the teacher/professor to have to grade a bunch of extra work when you couldn't be bothered to do well in the first half of semester.
 

Omen

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
866
Reaction score
5
mrRuckus said:
I despise extra credit.

For one it devalues my A that was actually earned.

And the other thing is that if you really wanted a good grade you should have thought of that before you barely studied for a test or skipped a bunch of classes... not expect the teacher/professor to have to grade a bunch of extra work when you couldn't be bothered to do well in the first half of semester.
What's sad is when you get points for just showing up. Ok... 5 extra points since only half the class is here. I mean its not like anyone is going to argue, but some see it as rewarding those who show up all of the time.

It wont change, so all you can do is deal with it unless you get the professor that has NO extra credit.
 
Top