proper creatine cycling

[Trant]

Hi guys, started supplementing with creatine today. I'm wondering how you guys cycle your creatine?

The package (Higher Power Creatine Monohydrate from bodybuilding.com) says to take 4-6 teaspoons a day for the first 5 days, then 2 teaspoons a day until day 21, then 3 days with no creatine, and then to repeat.

However, I've read online that after the 5 day loading phase, that the maintenence phase should go for roughly 3 weeks, and then 3 weeks of no creatine at all.

What has worked for you guys - what should I do?

If it helps, i'm 5'11" 190 lbs

 

[victor von doom]

Originally posted by Trant
Hi guys, started supplementing with creatine today. I'm wondering how you guys cycle your creatine?

The package (Higher Power Creatine Monohydrate from bodybuilding.com) says to take 4-6 teaspoons a day for the first 5 days, then 2 teaspoons a day until day 21, then 3 days with no creatine, and then to repeat.

However, I've read online that after the 5 day loading phase, that the maintenence phase should go for roughly 3 weeks, and then 3 weeks of no creatine at all.

What has worked for you guys - what should I do?

If it helps, i'm 5'11" 190 lbs

creatine is not a steroid, pro-hormone, or drug. Your body produces it all the time, therefore you don't "cycle" it. The whole point of supplementing creatine is to keep your blood creatine levels elevated beyond normal, to reap its volumizing effect (i.e. faster recovery) in the muscle. That's it. It's not a wonder drug or anything of the sort.

Once you get out of the loading phase, all you need is 1-3g/day (1 teaspoon/day taken with a dextrose drink) to continue to reap the volumizing effects of creatine in the muscle.

 

[semag]

You recommend the loading phase doom?? I've heard mixed reviews on that from a bunch of different people...

 

[Trant]

thanks for the reply victor

i thought the point of cycling creatine was because if you didn't, your body would realize that it is getting a constant supply of creatine and would thus stop producing it. Therefor, you periodically stopped taking creatine so that your body would continue production. Is this incorrect?

 

[victor von doom]

from everything I've read, it doesn't really matter if you load or not, especially I've you've done a loading phase in the past, or have only been off creatine for a couple of months.

However, if you've never, ever done creatine before, it doesn't really hurt to "load". That's what I'd do, at the very least to insure saturation into the bloodstream.

But if you've been doing it on and off for a while already, then another loading phase won't make much of a difference.

Hope that clears things up.

 

[victor von doom]

Originally posted by Trant
thanks for the reply victor

i thought the point of cycling creatine was because if you didn't, your body would realize that it is getting a constant supply of creatine and would thus stop producing it. Therefor, you periodically stopped taking creatine so that your body would continue production. Is this incorrect?

I think it's impossible for the body to stop producing creatine, if my understanding of how its produced in the body is correct, it's a byproduct of protein synthesis and not regulated by the endocrine system at all, so I don't think you would have the same issues you would have with steroid (artificial testosterone) or aromatizing pro-hormone products (like andro).

Maybe someone else on this board could give you a definitive answer.

You may want to try to posting this question on bodybuilding.com, there may be some physiology geeks that post over there.

 

[FitnessGuy]

When you supplement with creatine your body stops making as much of it. Then when you stop supplementing with creatine your body starts making it again.

Victor is right it isn't like a steroid or anything, once you stop supplementing with creatine the body will start making it again with no problems at all.

About loading there are several conflicting views on whether loading helps saturate the muscles faster. I haven't done sufficient research on this personally to give you a definite answer, but the general consesus is that no, you don't need to load. Just take 5 grams a day or so and you will be fine.

 

[semag]

Thanks guys

Off to get fukkin huge!

 

[MVPlaya]

Originally posted by victor von doom
I think it's impossible for the body to stop producing creatine, if my understanding of how its produced in the body is correct, it's a byproduct of protein synthesis and not regulated by the endocrine system at all, so I don't think you would have the same issues you would have with steroid (artificial testosterone) or aromatizing pro-hormone products (like andro).

Maybe someone else on this board could give you a definitive answer.

You may want to try to posting this question on bodybuilding.com, there may be some physiology geeks that post over there.

I'm no Med major, but from what I understand the idea to cycle is to make sure your body keeps producing creatine. When people do Coke they create so much dopamine (a naturally produced chemical) that they have difficulty experiencing joy when they stop doing coke. Although creatine is not a drug, the same concept applies, you need to cycle creatine so that your body doesn't become dependent on a bottle you bought at Long's Drugs or GNC, and that you manufacture creatine as well as taking it, hereby giving you more creatine.

 

[livin large]

6 weeks on, 2-6 weeks off (when I cycle I take 4).

5 days of loading - 20g per day (in 5g increments)
Rest of the 6 weeks - 5-10g per day

 

[victor von doom]

Originally posted by MVPlaya
Although creatine is not a drug, the same concept applies, you need to cycle creatine so that your body doesn't become dependent on a bottle you bought at Long's Drugs or GNC, and that you manufacture creatine as well as taking it, hereby giving you more creatine.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. But I'm too lazy to go research it right now.

 

[FitnessGuy]

Originally posted by victor von doom
I'm pretty sure this is wrong. But I'm too lazy to go research it right now.

Ditto, pretty sure creatine production doesn't work like that. I don't think you can compare dopamine or test production with creatine production. I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm 99% sure that it isn't the same.

 

[livin large]

Bottom Line - Cycle Creatine. No more than 12 wks on, at least 4 weeks between cycles

Are you cycling your creatine? Find out why you may want to.

Title:

Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.

Researchers:

Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.

Source:

Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37

Summary:

These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.

Discussion:

The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.

Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it’s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.

All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation.

The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.