Preparing for a LTR Burial

[Desdinova]

I find myself looking to understand the answers you gave further. Would you say they are mostly just yours personally, more representative of most men in general, or are the perspectives you shared characteristic of most men on this site, or particular factions of, or is there a blue pill/red pill/purple pill (whatever that is) guideline they would fall into?

I cannot speak for the other guys here. I came to my conclusions and theories based initially on all the stuff I read here when I showed up back in 2001, and then took not only my experiences but also my observations of male-female interactions and thought deeply about them. Over time, I started recognizing patterns. The same things keep happening over and over, regardless of who the couple is. I can tell which party is more interested, when a woman's leading a guy on, when she's just in it for the attention, when he's spoiling the hell out of her, when they're on the verge of breaking up, etc etc. It's at a point where it's extremely surreal. It's almost like I'm a damn fortune teller.

The one relationship I observed that was a major roadblock for a lot of my beliefs was that of my cousin and his wife. They were married a long time, had two kids together, and they seemed very functional and successful. They were the one couple who embodied the kind of relationship I wanted. 6 years ago, she ended the marriage and left my cousin devastated. That one divorce completely shattered my belief that ideal, loving relationships can and will succeed. They were married for 24 years.

 

[Desdinova]

Do you mind if I ask what broke up your cousin's marriage?

To me, this question always consists of what they say caused the breakup, and what actually did. I've run into his ex-wife about a couple of years ago, and her biggest complaint is that she was always "taking care" of him. I think the real reason they broke up was because he was an AFC.

I'm the one who ended my marriage. Honestly, I think the problems started from day one. Now, you have to remember that I was on this site before I got married, so that really changes my perspective. Looking back, I firmly believe that I was just a trophy. There were lots of other women interested in me, and my ex-wife wanted to come out as the winner. Almost immediately after we were married, she was never around. Like fvcking NEVER. She had friends to spend time with, extra jobs to work, and was never home. I had multiple arguments with her about this subject, but she always made me out to be the one in the wrong.

We went out for lunch one day. She wasn't happy that I had quit being affectionate towards her. In reality, I was done with the marriage. She flat out told me "I DESERVE to be treated better as a wife". My first thought was to tell her "then you should ACT more like a wife", but I was just done arguing about her not being home, so I just agreed but never followed through. At that point, I just let her do whatever the fvck she wanted because I didn't really give a damn anymore. I practically had my own life without her around.

Eventually, she started getting into new hobbies and interests. Now, I've been through that once before, and I knew that there was another man in the picture. I had the password to her email, so I went and checked it. She was screwing around with her best friend's husband. I wasn't really any better though, I had a mistress a few months previously. I had the mistress solely for the attention I was missing from my marriage.

I ended the marriage a week and a half later. He was over doing his laundry, and I discovered they were going through my computer trying to find evidence that I was the one cheating.

So there's your story. Take from it what you will.

 

[Desdinova]

Last night was interesting... My previous orbiter has remained on my Facebook, so she knew I was single. She showed up at my regular hangout last night, and eventually ended up sitting at my table. For those who've read my high score theory, this is where it really comes into play. This woman was interested me when she was 20 years old. She's 22 now. I'm well aware that I'm at the top of her high score list. Last night, she sent me this on Facebook:


Hey,

So (friend) pulled me aside after you left telling me all these things u were saying to her.... whether they r true idk but she was saying u were wanting to hang out again n u were interested in me.....

So I really need to hear from you what is going on.... I want to get a straight answer from u and to make sure that there are no misunderstandings or miscommunications

Your important to me and always will be and I feel like you understand me in ways no other person has been able to.

If what (friend) told me is true then I hope we can talk about it but if she was just entertaining lies then I will be honest with you...... I can never just be your friend it won't ever work that way for me.

Knowing that sucks because your a great person but in my heart there is only one way this can work out where we maintain contact.



In other words, I got an ultimatum. "Date me or go away". I've never had an ultimatum like that before.

I didn't take her up last time (about a year ago) because she's overweight and a bad kisser. She's lost a little bit of weight. She has a lot of things going for her. She lives in a trailer park, has her own car, and I'm at the top of her high score list. She's also made it clear that she's not interested in having orbiters.

I think it's time to put the high score theory to test. How much power do I have over this chick? I can probably make her into a better kisser, but can I get her to lose the weight? Has she given me enough power to command her diet? Perhaps it's time to find out.

 

[Glumix]

I find myself looking to understand the answers you gave further. Would you say they are mostly just yours personally, more representative of most men in general, or are the perspectives you shared characteristic of most men on this site, or particular factions of, or is there a blue pill/red pill/purple pill (whatever that is) guideline they would fall into?

The more I try to explain women, the more I end up telling me that it's useless and that I should only focus on my own way of being. Being aware of all the traps they setup for us is great and knowing your "enemy" is a necessity. But then I still have the choice of what kind of a man I would like to be.

Your experience of your crazy ex, all the deceit and unauthenticity you suffered certainly made you aware of what a woman should really value in a man. Like pretty much every men on this forum who experienced a relationship with a crazy b!tch.

But do you know what a woman should be for a man? And are you ready to accept that?

Men here workout, they build themselves, their mind, their body, their finance. They feel better because that's true masculinity.

What's true femininity? What are you doing, as a woman, to better yourself, for your man?

 

[Tenacity]

The more I try to explain women, the more I end up telling me that it's useless and that I should only focus on my own way of being. Being aware of all the traps they setup for us is great and knowing your "enemy" is a necessity. But then I still have the choice of what kind of a man I would like to be.

Your experience of your crazy ex, all the deceit and unauthenticity you suffered certainly made you aware of what a woman should really value in a man. Like pretty much every men on this forum who experienced a relationship with a crazy b!tch.

But do you know what a woman should be for a man? And are you ready to accept that?

Men here workout, they build themselves, their mind, their body, their finance. They feel better because that's true masculinity.

What's true femininity? What are you doing, as a woman, to better yourself, for your man?

^^ Thank you, I'm glad somebody brought this up.

I'm so sick of society not holding women accountable for shyt. When a man does something wrong, it's the man's fault, but when a woman does something wrong, it's also the man's fault.

- A chick gives a guy her number, which is saying that she WANTS a guy to communicate with her via telephone. Then the guy fvcking calls or texts her, she doesn't respond, doesn't say she's busy, doesn't say shyt....but society and a lot of people on the Manosphere will "blame the guy" for X, Y, and Z, instead of also pointing the finger at the chick for giving her number out when she had NO INTENTION of communicating.

- A chick gets married but divorces her husband because he works too much and isn't giving her enough dyck. Society and people on the Manosphere will blame the husband for his lack of attention and lack of giving dyck, instead of ALSO pointing out that the woman made a vow of "for better or worse, until death do us part"...so that means for good dyck or bad dyck, for quality time or no quality time, SHE is supposed to remain steadfast next to her husband until death takes one of them away.

All day long we are told as men to keep "improving" this, that, this and that, while women are NEVER told to improve shyt. Women have a take it or leave it attitude, basically shaming you saying that you aren't a real/strong man if you can't handle whatever bad trait and characteristic she brings to the table.

 

[Tictac]

^^ Thank you, I'm glad somebody brought this up.

I'm so sick of society not holding women accountable for shyt. When a man does something wrong, it's the man's fault, but when a woman does something wrong, it's also the man's fault.

- A chick gives a guy her number, which is saying that she WANTS a guy to communicate with her via telephone. Then the guy fvcking calls or texts her, she doesn't respond, doesn't say she's busy, doesn't say shyt....but society and a lot of people on the Manosphere will "blame the guy" for X, Y, and Z, instead of also pointing the finger at the chick for giving her number out when she had NO INTENTION of communicating.

- A chick gets married but divorces her husband because he works too much and isn't giving her enough dyck. Society and people on the Manosphere will blame the husband for his lack of attention and lack of giving dyck, instead of ALSO pointing out that the woman made a vow of "for better or worse, until death do us part"...so that means for good dyck or bad dyck, for quality time or no quality time, SHE is supposed to remain steadfast next to her husband until death takes one of them away.

All day long we are told as men to keep "improving" this, that, this and that, while women are NEVER told to improve shyt. Women have a take it or leave it attitude, basically shaming you saying that you aren't a real/strong man if you can't handle whatever bad trait and characteristic she brings to the table.

So, that's how 'society' is. I keep asking you if you think that endlessly whining about it is going to change a GD thing about it. You know the answer.

You make yourself a eunich doing this. You want a vasectomy, you want to punch out women. That's the result of you whining endlessly about reality.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Desdinova, in all your stories, YOU are the victim. As mentioned, as long as you point outward, you fail to look inward. Accordingly, then, what is the lesson to learn--or--do you earnestly believe the lesson is ALL women are xyz?

Do you take any personal responsibility for your failed relationships?

 

[Tenacity]

So, that's how 'society' is.

But why TicTac? Why is society like that? It's because we have SAT BACK and allowed it to get to this point. I keep asking for you guys to stop being so hidden on this forum because I think it's time we take to the streets, the courts, and form some sort of grassroots movement to bring these issues to the forefront. MRAs are doing it, but we could look at accelerating the pace.

I keep asking you if you think that endlessly whining about it is going to change a GD thing about it. You know the answer.

I'm trying to do something about it but I'm one person, I need a movement behind me. One of my first posts on this forum was As Men, Why Do We Take This? You were the first one to respond in that thread and admit that the system is fvcked up and the people benefiting off of it (such as the lawyers and judges) don't want it to change.

I have not personally been legally fvcked by a chick like you TicTac and even Des, but Des clearly shows frustration and I'm wondering why don't you? Why as "men" we are told to "man up and just take it"? Why can't the fvck we ban together and FIGHT BACK? That's my only question to this?

If women were being fvcked over like this you would have the entire Democratic Party and every interest group in the country protesting. But when men are fvcked over, well, we should just "man up" and move on because you know....talking about how we are getting fvcked over is "whining" and as a "real man" you shouldn't whine.

Desdinova, in all your stories, YOU are the victim. As mentioned, as long as you point outward, you fail to look inward. Accordingly, then, what is the lesson to learn--or--do you earnestly believe the lesson is ALL women are xyz?

Do you take any personal responsibility for your failed relationships?

Legend in every failed relationship there are TWO parties at fault, the guy and the woman, agreed? If you agree, why is it that you only focus on what Des did wrong? What if the chicks he was fvcking with just had bad character? You could say that he could have filtered that shyt out upfront, but a lot of these chicks are master manipulators and you won't know she's fvcked up until you are deep in the middle of the relationship.

I totally agree with the focus on the guy working on himself and trying to go better, but DAMN do you hold women accountable for ANYTHING?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Legend in every failed relationship there are TWO parties at fault, the guy and the woman, agreed? If you agree, why is it that you only focus on what Des did wrong? What if the chicks he was fvcking with just had bad character? You could say that he could have filtered that shyt out upfront, but a lot of these chicks are master manipulators and you won't know she's fvcked up until you are deep in the middle of the relationship.

How does the focus on her serve him? He did play a part, whether 1% or 99%. What's better to carry into the next relationship: hurt feelings and a damaged core--or--self-improvements incited by self-reflection?

 

[Tenacity]

How does the focus on her serve him? He did play a part, whether 1% or 99%. What's better to carry into the next relationship: hurt feelings and a damaged core--or--self-improvements incited by self-reflection?

How about self-improvement incited by self-reflection, AS WELL AS the realization that women have bad character traits and don't usually get called out on it, so getting together with your homeboys to make a "rule" that we are going to call chicks out on dumb a.ss behavior? Furthermore, when one of your homeboys gets ripped off in court, we are going to take to social media, the streets, protest, etc., to make it known that we won't tolerate injustice.

Basically, how about an ALL OF THE ABOVE answer? You keep focusing on the guy "improving himself" when the women he has to interact with out here are getting more entitled, stupid, evil, and immoral as the days pass because NOBODY is calling them out, fighting back or challenging their stupid behavior.

 

[Tictac]

How does the focus on her serve him? He did play a part, whether 1% or 99%. What's better to carry into the next relationship: hurt feelings and a damaged core--or--self-improvements incited by self-reflection?

Need a movement behind you? That's an excuse to do NOTHING so you can keep whining like a little girl or maybe beat up a woman.

You enjoy being helpless.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

How about self-improvement incited by self-reflection, AS WELL AS the realization that women have bad character traits and don't usually get called out on it, so getting together with your homeboys to make a "rule" that we are going to call chicks out on dumb a.ss behavior? Furthermore, when one of your homeboys gets ripped off in court, we are going to take to social media, the streets, protest, etc., to make it known that we won't tolerate injustice.

Basically, how about an ALL OF THE ABOVE answer? You keep focusing on the guy "improving himself" when the women he has to interact with out here are getting more entitled, stupid, evil, and immoral as the days pass because NOBODY is calling them out, fighting back or challenging their stupid behavior.

The focus still remains on him. Going forward, HE will make the choice as to what HE will allow or tolerate in HIS life.

As to public protest, we covered this already in the hobo analogy in your thread.

The problem with some MGTOW groups is that while their convictions are not unfounded, their advocates comprise many broken people. To effect change, YOU must be centered yourself to appeal to the masses. Much of what you preach is true but the speaker appears broken, thus you lose a big audience. I wouldn't tell you to change your delivery. Instead, I would advice to work out your inner junk first. Then, if you still feel the same, orchestrate your attack tactfully. A guy like TicTac who has been through it and appears centered would appeal to a much larger audience than you or a Des if he elected to pursue that route. But as TIcTac has seemed to already have worked out his inner junk and himself, his "needs" changed.

 

[Desdinova]

What's better to carry into the next relationship: hurt feelings and a damaged core--or--self-improvements incited by self-reflection?

WTF??? Where did I say my feelings were damaged? I was a bit bummed out for the first day or so, but I'm fine now. I'm not crying over her nor thinking about getting her back. Or should I have just stayed and put up with her complimenting orbiters in front of me, the repeated talk of wanting a "hot fireman", and the two week absence after she returned from Cuba? When too much garbage gets thrown onto the pile in front of me, I'm not going to say it smells like perfume when it actually smells like 5hit. Or was all that my fault? According to you, my sense of smell is wrong and I should be blamed for judging the pile of garbage as undesirable.

Now that this 34 year old is gone from my life, I have a 22 year old who wants to fvck the hell out of me. Yes, my life is in shambles and my game is lousy.

 

[zekko]

I was shocked at the idea that you feel if you do not maintain emotional fluctuations for a woman, that she will become bored and leave.

I don't personally believe this idea that if you don't keep a woman's emotions going back and forth like a ping pong ball, she's going to leave you. I know Desdinova says this is a favorite tactic of his, and is something that he is good at, but I seriously can't be bothered to spend all that time manipulating my girlfriend's emotions like that all the time. Better things to do, you know?

I don't think it's necessary to use emotional fluctuation is necessary to keep a woman around. It certainly isn't anything that I have used. I think that if you do this early on in an interaction, yeah you can probably get a girl excited, and she might associate that excitement with you. I also suppose that if a woman isn't attracted to you in a very long term sort of way, you might delay her leaving by keeping her confused and off guard with these scrambled emotions. But I don't think you are ultimately going to convince a woman to be with you long term by manipulating her in this way. She's either going to want to do that on her own or she isn't. Briffault's Law and all that - if there's an advantage to her to be with you she will. For example, if you are high value and she thinks she gains enough status from that she will stay.

That doesn't mean you treat her like a princess though. You want to be a rock, a place of refuge in her emotional storms. Women want a man to be strong, not to just be jerking her around all the time. IMO. That's where I disagree with general PUA principles. But PUAs have a different goal than I do. PUAs have no endgame, the entirety of their game rests on whether or not they can get a girl into bed. If they can, they win, their game goes no further.

 

[Desdinova]

but I seriously can't be bothered to spend all that time manipulating my girlfriend's emotions like that all the time.

I think it's interesting that people perceive this as being "time consuming". It's not time consuming at all. You say no to sex once in a while, make her cry about something occasionally, show up late once in a while, respond to texts a couple of hours later, eat her pu55y until she has an orgasm... where is the extra consumed time? Perhaps eating her until she has an orgasm is time-consuming, but that IMO is time well spent. You'll have to deal with her mood changes, but she's going to have them even if you don't cause emotional fluctuation. The difference is, she'll be moody because she needs some drama in her relationship, and that will be her way of injecting it. If she becomes the source of emotional fluctuation, she will find another guy who will do it for her.

It takes ba11s to be an intentional jerk because you're going to feel guilty about it. After a while, you realize that it's actually just relationship maintenance. You're not doing all these things because you don't care, you're doing them because you actually DO care.

 

[zekko]

I think it's interesting that people perceive this as being "time consuming". It's not time consuming at all. You say no to sex once in a while, make her cry about something occasionally, show up late once in a while, respond to texts a couple of hours later, eat her pu55y until she has an orgasm... where is the extra consumed time?

If it works well for you, great. As for being time consuming, I mean this isn't something that I consider worth thinking about. I don't consider it worth spending time thinking about, or doing. I don't do it. I haven't done it. I don't see where there has been something missing in my relationships because I haven't done it. I don't see the need to do it, and I don't care to do it. If you enjoy doing it, or think it's necessary to maintain your relationships, great. I don't think it's necessary, so I don't do it.

 

[Tenacity]

The problem with some MGTOW groups is that while their convictions are not unfounded, their advocates comprise many broken people. To effect change, YOU must be centered yourself to appeal to the masses. Much of what you preach is true but the speaker appears broken, thus you lose a big audience.

Legend, this literally makes no sense. You are telling me that Bernie Sanders along with the people who support his mission appear "whole"? Ron Paul and the people who supported his mission, appear "whole"? Are you going to tell me that the people who stand up to speak for women's rights, gay rights, etc., are "whole"? What about those from the Occupy Wallstreet Movement? What about those from the new Tea Party Movement? What about the Civil Rights Movement? What about the NWA "Fvck The Police" Movement? What about Black Lives Matter?

These were all fringe movements with BROKEN people leading the way, not "whole peple", broken in that they were screwed over, bitter, and "mad about something", thus, they decided to link up with other screwed over, bitter and "mad about something" people to elicit change.

NONE of these movements appealed to the "masses", no fringe, grassroots movement can appeal to the "masses" at first because whatever dominate power structure in place is what currently appeals to the "masses". You have to have small victory here, small victory there, and it begins to steamroll upwards.

Furthermore, Legend...I want you to name me ONE MAJOR MOVEMENT, political, religious, social, corporate, entertainment, etc....that DID NOT involve "broken" people or people who were "mad" about something leading the way. NAME ONE?

I wouldn't tell you to change your delivery. Instead, I would advice to work out your inner junk first. Then, if you still feel the same, orchestrate your attack tactfully.

Oh I have issues, YOU have issues, WE ALL have issues. I've put my issues on the table and I'm working on mine, but nevertheless my friend, please understand that even with a 100% BRAND NEW Tenacity:

- The Family Court is still fvcked up
- Men are still receiving fake DV Charges
- Men are still receiving fake Rape Charges
- Child Support Cases are still out of control
- Men are still paying Alimony in 2016
- Divorce Proceedings are still out of control
- Women STILL REFUSE to take responsibility for the shyt that they do

A 100% BRAND NEW Tenacity does not change the fact that getting married or making a kid with ANY woman in America, is a significant fvcking gamble based on what I listed above. THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. The change might not come in my Generation, but damn it, maybe we can make it better for our sons and grandsons.

A guy like TicTac who has been through it and appears centered would appeal to a much larger audience than you or a Des if he elected to pursue that route. But as TIcTac has seemed to already have worked out his inner junk and himself, his "needs" changed.

Listen, I like TicTac lol, but TicTac is in his 60's and I've seen him act very immature on these forums when debating people HALF his age. I don't know how TicTac is the beacon of light here. But nevertheless, nobody is perfect and you don't have to be perfect or "whole" to let your voice be heard. That logic makes literally no sense.

It's like telling the people in Flint, MI who are protesting over being SCREWED over with the Water Situation, that because they aren't "whole", because they don't make "a lot of money", and because they have (insert whatever other problems here), that they SHOULDN'T be protesting over the flat out irresponsibility of State and Local Government.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

When too much garbage gets thrown onto the pile in front of me, I'm not going to say it smells like perfume when it actually smells like 5hit. Or was all that my fault?

If there is too much garbage in YOUR life, who is the common element in this equation?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Tenacity, "screwed over" does not always equal "bitter." For you it does. Start here to understand how we define "whole."

 

[Tenacity]

Tenacity, "screwed over" does not always equal "bitter." For you it does. Start here to understand how we define "whole."

Legend, there's no need to play semantics here. "Screwed over" people have been called bitter many times, it's all in the eyes of the beholder and "name calling" of any means is pretty much irrelevant. All that's relevant is do we have an issue present or not? Just because you don't like the delivery man (Tenacity) doesn't mean there's something wrong with the mail.