Prenup?

[Bud_Fox]

Anyone ever had any bad situations when bringing up the subject of a prenup?

 

[Rubirosa]

So which one is it ? Are you getting divorced or married ?
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=190344

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Bud,
Yes....They just don't like the idea do they?.....however,the more they object then the deeper go your heels....lets face it,go buy a crummy car for $5 grand and if you are not cash up front there will be a contract to sign with the dealer,outlining both parties obligations....Now here you are signing your life away in the Registry office,and you would consider not setting up a pre nuptial?....No way Jose...Marriages in this country have a failure rate of 55% ....No pre Nup no Marriage.

 

[Desdinova]

I didn't get a pre-nup. Instead, I got her to sign a separation agreement after I ended the marriage. We actually sat down, agreed on everything, made it all legal and signed it. A year later, she tried to get money out of me for half the house. The agreement put a screeching halt to that because it specifically states that as of the date of the signing, all our assets and debts have been divided and settled.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Understood Espi.

I think this is an important point that deserves more clarity.

My pre-nup specifically states the items that are mine and shall remain mine (precious metals collection specifically) and also states that all property listed specificly in an individual name, including but not limited to Real Estate, Stocks, Bonds, and any financial accounts are the sole property of the person who's name is on the account and not a marital asset..

Danger, why even list a precious metals collection? One of the great things about precious metals is that nobody needs to know about it, it's completely out of the system. People can't take what they don't know about. This is why governments hate precious metals. The people can have wealth out of the system and their greedy hands. Same with divorcing wives...

 

[SecondHalf]

Only marry a woman with more money than you.
That way you're a star when you bring up a prenup.

SH

 

[backbreaker]

Danger:

I assume your wife signed the agreement because a pre-nup is valid only if both parties consent.

And, I'm no lawyer either, but I'm pretty sure that any assets that you obtain "post-nup" are NOT protected.

Maybe someone with a legal background on SS can verify this?

I would think that most women would deeply resent the husband keeping his financial life separate from her, but I think it's a good thing to keep assets divided--and that includes single men, married, etc.

Does she keep her financial life separate from you?

you are going on a tanget and you are only telling half the story in order to scare the masses.

Under California state law, anything I earn from the date I was married, pre nup or not, i am going to have to split in the case of a divorce. If she hires a damn good lawyer, she may even get that pushed back to around the time my son was born since she was living with me then though that's questionable, but possible IMHO. A good lawyer would argue that there was no difference in our living argenements from that time until the time of the divorce.

But she gets nothing whatsoever from anything I earned before at least the time my son was born, which includes the house, and about 85% of my savings.

she would get alimony most likely and child support though i doubt she would even bother with child support.

IMHO, pre nups aren't there to protect your assets, as much as they are to make dicorfces less sticky. If it goes down we have already agreed how it's going to go down. she gets this and that, I get this and that, take care.

IMHO, this is the secret reason, well not secret but the big reason why a man is a complete idiot to get married before he's 30 n(rotfl says the man who got married before he's 30). it turns marriages into the lotto for women. it's why IMHO it's important to get your fiances in order before you get married, because she can't touch them.

Lol, the lawyers tell you what the woman's argument for money is going to be and the men still fall for it. she has a one trick pony in the case of a divorce,k the "I helped you build this" argument. why even give that to them to use in the first place?


For the record I didn't have any problem at all getting the misses to sign one. Then again I was pretty generous as far as what she would get in that case. NOt giving the farm away but she would be taken care of as well as my son. My only 2 real concerns was that 1. she doesn't get the house which I paid for whole out of my own money and 2. that she doesn't touch my savings before i met her. I really could care less what happened after that. she would get her convertable that i bought for her as well as a nice check plus alimony. though i hope the day never comes.

 

[backbreaker]

Yes the first wife signed it and the wife-to-be agreed and will sign it as well, or no marriage.

Assets obtained post-nup and placed in the appropriate account as designated in the pre-nup are untouchable. My assets go into my checking account and my brokerage account. Only my name is on those accounts and they are specifically mentioned in the pre-nup. The moment they enter that account, they are protected.

I personally do not care one bit about how resentful the woman feels about separate financial lives. If it's a dealbreaker to her then she can go find another guy. I busted my @ss to accumulate my wealth and I will not be handing it over to anyone.

And yes, her financial accounts are all separate from mine as well.

I'm so anal with finances even if wanted to have all our fiances together it wouldn't be fiesable. I have like 10 different checking accounts, 3 savings accounts, a line of credit and 3 credit cards. I use each account for something very specific. For instance, my horse racing bankroll is one checking account. all horse racing bankroll funds, go directly into that account. what exactly would she need that for lol? she doesn't gamble.

then I have one account that i do nothing but pay bills with. so i will transfer funds from the horse racing account or the web development funds account and pay bills. that she has access to because well she pays the bills.

of all my accounts, we share an Amex card and 2 checking accounts, one for bills and one for misc expenditures, so if she has to buy some shoes or something she sees or the girls are going out for a night of drinks, she doesn't have to badger me for money, I put a set amount in there every month, she can knock herself out. and one saving account which is one i have set up specifically for my son. anything she touches in those accounts are going to be 1. at a minimum to everything else and 2. completely expendable and she wouldn't dare touch the one for our son.

the worst she could do realistically is go ape**** with the amex card. but she an only draw so much money out there and there is only so much **** she can buy. so at worst i'm looking at a rediclous shopping spree that i have to finance half of.

that's how you do it right there.

 

[spider_007]

My pre-nup specifically states the items that are mine and shall remain mine (precious metals collection specifically)

....mmm...not the ones you colected while married.

 

[Nutz]

To hell with prenups! Why? Because you shouldn't be getting married. Until the laws change to STOP putting men into indentured servitude and debtors prison (in the US), then all men should abstain. Why anyone would make the coin flip to risk their future fiscal, mental, and emotional well-being, not to mention their freedom and genetic heritage, is beyond me.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Prenups protect pre-marital assets. Anything earned during marriage is half hers upon divorce.

The one exception and way to possibly protect wealth that is created during marriage is to have a business interest like an llc or corporation set aside by a valid prenup, and then never let your wife access any of the accounts for the duration of the marriage, nor have anything to do with running that business...ever.

Every guy wanting a prenup wants a 'stick-it-to-the-b!tch' contract, where she gets thrown out in the cold, and he keeps all the money. But a good lawyer will get that sort of prenup thrown out by a judge, because an unfair agreement won't hold up in court. A good prenup provides spousal support alimony for at least a limited time and it helps a lot if your wife-to-be gets a second lawyer from a different law firm to advise her before she signs. Things like that make the prenup stick, but the person buying the prenup rarely wants to hear it.

 

[scrouds]

Option #3: Get married, but don't get married.

Most states do not recognize common law marriages anymore. Have the ceremony, have the party, go on the honeymoon and file a name change, not a marriage certificate. And never set foot in a common law marriage state.

If you split, its like you've been dating and living together.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Espi,
"PRE NUPS DO NOT PROTECT A MAN'S ASSETS WHEN THE MARRIAGE DISSOLVES." The vehemence with which you defend this statement suggests that for you,in your State this is the the reality....

Fair enough,thanks for that....Here in Australia and many countries with a basically British derived legal system,and I believe this to include many of your Eastern States particularly Virginia,whilst the strict semantics may be correct the Court may well consider the agreement a Legally Binding CONTRACT....

Well that happened to me....having been to the Cleaners twice...Firstly Nutz advice is correct but here and certainly in California being De-Facto married and that can include not living under the same roof,will carry the same onerous conditions....A couple may have a Statement on their proposed division of assets at ANY time ...it is simply an agreed statement on the relative financial state between two people,properly witnessed with the use of different advising Lawyer by each Party,this will hold up in Court...

If you are thinking of starting a Family,and ONLY then ,if you must get married,and unless you have married a Lady wealthier than you, then DO get a Prenuptial.

 

[mrRuckus]

I remember hearing that in some states that you have to renew prenups. I'm not sure of the accuracy of this, but it's something to consider and look into to be sure... and the lawyer and whoever don't necessarily mention this... something about it expiring after 10 years and you have to go and renew it... which seems absurd to me, but pretty much everything regarding family and divorce courts is absurd.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Put yourself in the judge's place when looking at a newly divorced couple with a prenup. What you're saying - to just keep your money in a separate account, like I said to do with business money - might work, but it depends on the financial status of your wife, especially in regard to whether or not she can support herself and has money of her own. If both spouses produce income and agree to keep it separate, and both have assets to fall back on, and it's an otherwise valid agreement, then the judge might be ok with the prenup.

But if you're the one with all the money and income, it's going to be nearly impossible to get the prenup to stick without some very generous alimony terms. Otherwise the judge will toss out the prenup for being unfair. The more liberal your judge and judicial district as well as the skill of her divorce lawyer influence the outcome as well.

Prenups are guesses about the future. You never know exactly for certain how things will play out. All you can do is try your best to protect your money, operating within a valid agreement. fwiw, I would feel more comfortable trying to protect money that was in a corporate/llc name than in my own individual name. It's easier to argue that she had no part in the corporation, than it is to convincingly argue that she never had any access to your personal account.

 

[backbreaker]

Responses in bold.

I mean, if you chose the right woman and she isn't a gold digging *****, and you aren't being a total **** about the whole thing they wont' have a problem with it. I view women who have a problem with pre nups like clients who don't want to pay fora project until it's 100% completed; they are looking to get over in some way shape or form

our pre nup discussion took all of 30 minutes. I told her look, the house is off the table. other than that what would you consider fair compensation if we we to split up, she told me, and it actually wasn't that unreasonable, but got her to come down on the amount of money that i would give her.

she's a trust fund girl, she gets 2,500 or so from a trust fund a month (as of now she saves half of it, and puts the other half in our joint account), so she won't get very much alimony from me. for the most part write her a check and move on and make payments to her for the son and his needs.

 

[backbreaker]

well in my case, she knew that it took me a while to come around to the idea of getting married in the first place. when we met i was pretty hell bent on being single / staying out of the government contract deal, but as we lived together i started seeing the benefits of putting a ring on her finger more and more, but even then, when i finally accepted/came around to the idea, it was going to be on my terms or it wasn't gonna happen.

If she offered the slightest bit of resenantce to the pre nup i would have taken the ring back the next day, i BS you not, and she knew it, but at the same time, I do love her and I'm not a jerk / wasn't trying to get over on her. I just don't want to be raped and have everything i worked for go down the drain and she understands that.


like I said, any woman who offers any resistance to this, especially if you are a guy with means, run like the freakin ****ens.

some things with a woman you have to pick your spots. when our child was born she was naming Joesph and that was that. no point in arguing. considering the whole child birth thing as well I wasn't really in a position to argue lol. woman wants to get married, she is going to make all the wedding plans. they dream of that ****. dont' aruge jsut pay the damn bill. last time I saw my sister, she was online looking at wedding gowns.. she's 11!

some things on the other hand, you have to stand your ground on and if she really wants to be with you, she won't even test it as long as you aren't being an ******* about the whole thing (i.e, if we break up you dont get a dime and you get no support). as long as you say look i know you have to have something, but just don't rape me in the process, you shouldnb't have any issues

 

[EFFORT]

well in my case, she knew that it took me a while to come around to the idea of getting married in the first place. when we met i was pretty hell bent on being single / staying out of the government contract deal

This reflects my view on marriage.... I just can't see the benefits of it.

, but as we lived together i started seeing the benefits of putting a ring on her finger more and more,

What were the benefits you experienced from putting a ring on her finger that couldn't have been experienced without it?

 

[EFFORT]

Only marry a woman with more money than you.
That way you're a star when you bring up a prenup.

SH

Not sure how this happened but my Uncle was married to a Doctor who made a considerable amount more than he did, and he's been paying her money for the past 18 years and still owes her money.

 

[backbreaker]

This reflects my view on marriage.... I just can't see the benefits of it.





What were the benefits you experienced from putting a ring on her finger that couldn't have been experienced without it?

well, I liked her alot, and while she was okay being with me, she's always wanted to be married. she was willing to not be married, at least on the outside, but everytime something would happen, and we got into an argument, it all came back to her being scared i was going to leave her for someone else. my wife is a few years older than me too.

so as long as we were not married there would be this 800 pound gurllia in the room. Not only that, she really is a catch.. 34 years old, still wears a size 3 pants and can jog 5 miles quite easily everyday, great in bed, no feminist BS, smart as a whip, very down to earth, no real baggage.. she's the type of woman that if I wasn't ready to marry her someone else would without hesitation. So I came to the conclusion that it was not realistic for me to think we would live together for ever and never be married, especially with her being 34 years old (32 at the time i proposed) and her being in the downward of her prime.

She never came out and said it,. but she didn't have to. The last big time argument we got into, when she stalked me because of the messages i had on my phone only to find out i was meeting my assistant lol, told me clear as day this couldn't go on for ever like this and that if we were to be together if I really wanted to keep h er in my life we would have to be married.


I had the exact same viewpoint.. I just didn't see the benefits, but as I got oldwer I realized that wasn't a very realistic viewpoint long term. Let me rephrease.. I akin it to breeding thoroughbred horses.

IF you know anything about breeding thoroughbreds you know that the really good sires, can and do easily command 6 figures per breeding. So if I have a mare and I want to bred to say, Tapit, I have to cough up $125k just so my mare can get fvcked by Tapit which takes all of 1 mintue. Not all sires are this expensive, but there are some. \

Every year when the sire prices come out, you will hear everyone bellyhooiong about how they will never pay this much to breed to a sire, and they make a point beucase, whenj you look at the numbers, it's just not realistic. A thoroughbred cost a little bit around $3k a monthy to keep in trainig in california, so that's 36k just to have a thoroughbred in training. Plus the 125k you spent to breed for this horse. Not including keeping the horse at a farm when he's born, breaking the horse, any additional traveling or vet bills you are at.

So with a horse like that, you are easiliy 300k in the hole before your high priced horse ever steps foot on a race track. lol, IF he steps foot on the race track. About 1/3rd of the horses that are born evrey year nefver step foot on the track for one reason or the other.

Very few horses will make 300k in their lifetime. Let's say this horse I paid for, could run a little. wasn't a super star or anything but had a little run. He won a maiden, won an allowance, came in 2-3rd in some non graded stakes, then as he got older I had to drop him into a claiming race where he was clamed off me for 40k. That might be around 160k-200k right there, maybe if you are lucky.

To win 300k and all the money come to you, you have to basically be a graded stakes caliber horse. And less than 1% of all horses born every year are that.

so basically what I am saying is, you are virtually guaranteed to lose money. So everyone says that these breeders are raping the horse owners.

but here is the thing. lol, the people who own tapit and announced he was booked for 125k in November, are over booked 1 month later and are turning away clients. They announced in november his fee, already a full book of 110-120 or so mares.

People who want to win big tine races will happily pony up the money because he produces big time race horses. Also and this is getting into the more techncal aspects of horse racing, but owners of really good mares (Female horses), that are really high class, will bred to really high class sires like tapit to 1. have very classy female babies or 2. to have a 7 figure or close to 7 figure yearling int he sales, so even though they are spending 125k to bred, they might make 800k off the sale at the end of the day becuase of the class of the mare combined...too much info lol) or that can win the kentucky derby the breeders cup, etc. He's that calibur of sire. Not all of his horses do, but him and a few others produce world class calbiur race horses at a higher clip than most sires.

What those breeders who are complaining do not realize, as did I realize when I was 22-23 years old, hell 24-25 years old, is that the catch/desired object, has the ability to dictate terms. Because if you don't pay them, there will be a line of people behind you that will.

If you are hell bent against marriage, you will be dealing with left overs for the vast majority of your life. All the catches want to get married and because they are serious catch hes, they will and probably marry well, because they are catches. There is no world where these HB9's are walking around with great credit, down to earth, no baggage that are just dying to shack up with you for the rest of your life with no ring lol. There is no world where Megyn Kelly isn't going to get married if she doesn't want to. Dude if megyn kelly, lol with her 2 kids got divorced tomororw there would be a line of rich dudes around time square camping out to date her out. Spinning plates, should be a process to determine a who is LTR material, not a life style IMHO.

I by no means am saying you should drop everything the second you see a decent looking woman. But if you find a woman that is honestly worth keeping around, you are an idiot if you don't think there is a line of guys that won't quickly put a ring on her finger if you won't. and she knows this. My wife knows she is attractive, and she's a brit too and it just drive guys (like me) crazy with that accent. If i broke up with her tomorrow she would probably have a date by new year's, and would probalby find someone suitable for her within a year or 2 at most, no doubt in my mind, if that's what she wants. And because I honestly love her and see the benefits of having her around, we compliment each other quite well, I wanted to do what i had to do to keep her around.

IN my perfect world she would hate the idea of marriage, but the world is not perfect. If I didn't, the alternative would be the fighting over trust /commitment happening to the point, where she found another guy who was suitable that would marry her and she would leave and while I'm ***** whipped or antyhing, letting a girl who passed every plate spin, **** test, and spending 3 years with me with flying colors, the mother of my son, and woman who I trust with my own life and who crazy about, walk because I wouldn't sign a marriage document, is pretty silly IMHO.