diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
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Isn't it interesting how society seems to be conditioned to think that personal pleasure is a bad thing?
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Pleasure = bad
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TurboOverCubicInches
Don Juan
Yes. It's simple. Read up on history. Pleasure makes happy people. Happy people equals empowered people. Empowered people equals people who cannot be easily controlled.
It really depends what types of pleasure. Persuit of pleasures that comes at the expense of someone is the real problem.
If a person wanted to have sex to gratify his or her self but has AIDS/HIV, is it okay for him/her to start sleeping around without telling others for pleasure? Pleasure without an ounce of responsibility is a bad thing.
On the other hand, going your own way to lead your own life, goals and not to the standards of what others expect and want of you (if you categorize that as pleasure of life) is fine.
There is the spending of money on a extravagant and vacuous lifestyle, while keeping a minimal and/or unaccountable amount for the child. All this FROM the father's child custody payment who rarely gets to (or at all) see the children like say... this woman and in even worse cases like this story. I find repulsive, disgusting and vile.
If a person wanted to have sex to gratify his or her self but has AIDS/HIV, is it okay for him/her to start sleeping around without telling others for pleasure? Pleasure without an ounce of responsibility is a bad thing.
On the other hand, going your own way to lead your own life, goals and not to the standards of what others expect and want of you (if you categorize that as pleasure of life) is fine.
There is the spending of money on a extravagant and vacuous lifestyle, while keeping a minimal and/or unaccountable amount for the child. All this FROM the father's child custody payment who rarely gets to (or at all) see the children like say... this woman and in even worse cases like this story. I find repulsive, disgusting and vile.
I disagree completely. Everywhere I look, I see a culture completely devoted to pleasure.
In the United States at least, there is perhaps no more potent symbol of great wealth and power than the ability to indulge one's basest desires and not only avoid all consequences, but be loved for it.
The salaries of entertainers (athletes, actors, musicians, etc.) are second only to those of the capitalist overlords. To me, that is a strong indicator of the importance society places on pleasure.
Even religion is sold in terms of pleasure; either eternal bliss in Heaven or watching everyone you don't like burn in Hell.
A population can be just as easily enslaved through pleasure as through pain. "Bread and circuses" kept the Roman mob docile; an emperor who couldn't deliver them in abundance wouldn't live long. Prosperity is always a better tool for keeping a population satisfied and servile than propaganda and a police state. The reason it is never used is because it is not pleasurable for the rulers, who like the good little ubermensch-wannabes they are, greatly prefer to enrich themselves and brutalize their subjects instead.
In the United States at least, there is perhaps no more potent symbol of great wealth and power than the ability to indulge one's basest desires and not only avoid all consequences, but be loved for it.
The salaries of entertainers (athletes, actors, musicians, etc.) are second only to those of the capitalist overlords. To me, that is a strong indicator of the importance society places on pleasure.
Even religion is sold in terms of pleasure; either eternal bliss in Heaven or watching everyone you don't like burn in Hell.
A population can be just as easily enslaved through pleasure as through pain. "Bread and circuses" kept the Roman mob docile; an emperor who couldn't deliver them in abundance wouldn't live long. Prosperity is always a better tool for keeping a population satisfied and servile than propaganda and a police state. The reason it is never used is because it is not pleasurable for the rulers, who like the good little ubermensch-wannabes they are, greatly prefer to enrich themselves and brutalize their subjects instead.
doctoroxygen
Master Don Juan
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Ditto Visceral. Western culture is singularly devoted to the pursuit of pleasure. I make this claim with no moral judgment either way.
Shiftkey
Master Don Juan
I also disagree. If this were true, obesity wouldn't be the problem that it is today, and more people wouldn't vote for American Idol than the president.diplomatic_lies said:
By pleasure...do you mean as in lust or selfishness? I'm pretty sure that's a Christian/religious influence [sorry, don't take this out of control and make it a thread over religion].
One could argue that pleasure is one of the driving forces of mankind...that everything we do is for the feeling of pleasure. I think it matters more what you mean by pleasure.
Personally, I don't think that hedonism is advocable. Like I've been told (and it seems to make sense)...most hedonistic pleasures either gets old, or you lose it. It isn't genuine pleasure...there's nothing inherently bad about that, but it's all about searching for pleasure outside of yourself...
People are exploited through media, fast food, drugs, and such...seemingly because their lives are so dull or because they don't think for themselves to the degree that they should. It's taking the burden of oneself off of the self and into larger self of society. Seems to me that hedonistic pleasure without thinking of the long-term consequences breeds disease, decrepit health, and lack of any real/lasting pleasure.
One could argue that pleasure is one of the driving forces of mankind...that everything we do is for the feeling of pleasure. I think it matters more what you mean by pleasure.
Personally, I don't think that hedonism is advocable. Like I've been told (and it seems to make sense)...most hedonistic pleasures either gets old, or you lose it. It isn't genuine pleasure...there's nothing inherently bad about that, but it's all about searching for pleasure outside of yourself...
People are exploited through media, fast food, drugs, and such...seemingly because their lives are so dull or because they don't think for themselves to the degree that they should. It's taking the burden of oneself off of the self and into larger self of society. Seems to me that hedonistic pleasure without thinking of the long-term consequences breeds disease, decrepit health, and lack of any real/lasting pleasure.
DrMetallica
Master Don Juan
American culture is much more conservative in nature compared to cities like Paris and London. Moral decay all around, I was shocked. Those cities, from what I experienced, are entirely devoted to FUN!
Tomatoes
Master Don Juan
Humans cant be happy!
If your not happy your not happy.....
If your happy you will start to get hit by the "Law of Diminishing returns" which will make you unhappy....
Best off staying around the middle. Content.
If your not happy your not happy.....
If your happy you will start to get hit by the "Law of Diminishing returns" which will make you unhappy....
Best off staying around the middle. Content.
diplomatic_lies
Master Don Juan
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I've watched tv, eaten fast food, gambled, drank alcohol; and it hasn't gotten old, nor am I worse for the wear. My magical secret is that I was able to moderate myself.
Notice - the problem isn't hedonism, the problem is a lack of moderation. We're attacking the wrong source.
Create Reality
Master Don Juan
Bull**** in Moderation.