Please help me bulk up..sick of being skinny!

[djinhell]

Hi guys, this is my first time posting on the health and fitness section, but I've finally accepted my body needs work and I hope you guys can help me.

My body type is not the typical body..I do beleive I had a high metabolism which means its near impossible for me to add weight.

Im 23 and I am 6ft 5in and weigh around 12st (168 pounds).

The main areas of my body i want to bulk up are my arms and my chest. I hate being a skinny guy and not having the manly chest and arm muscles.

I hope you guys can give me some pointers for how to get weight and bulk up rather than being the skinny tall guy.

I understand diet is of great importance, so if you can also list me foods I should be eating and how often I should be eating in a day etc.

Thanks in advance guys

Dj In Hell

 

[ssj4halo]

If you are seriosely committed to this I recommend Anthony Ellis' Gaining Mass program designed just for ectomorphs(people like us with fast metabolism). I know how it feels man. 5 7' in high school and I only weighed 110 lbs. That was 3 years ago. Now I am over 150 lbs. It can totally be done. Dont give up.

For a quick run down go check out the sticky threads. I'll try to sum it up, you can pm me if you want elaboration/questions about anthony ellis's program and why I suggest it.

Nutrition:

6 meals of protein a day which add up to about 200g protein.(or more).
Eat a lot of carbs. Mostly starchy carbs towards the end of the day.
Eat lots of monounsaturated fats/polyunsatuated fats.
drink lots of water.
dont buy any supplements...yet. Get your diet in order. thats when you can actually supplement(after ur diet is in place)

Get rid of any sugary carbs like sodas, chips, cookies, and all that other junk food.

Training:

We are ectomorphs so more is not better. Stick to smaller workouts and more rest days. ONe day for legs, one for back/biceps, and one for chest/shoulder/triceps.

Look up how to properly do these excerices and what they are. Anyways, focus on COMPOUND excersices, not isolation. Stay AWAY from machines and pullys, stick to free weights.

Here are all excercies you have to do: Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Overhead Press, Dips, Pull ups, bent over rows, and bicep curls at the end of your back workout.

Workout three times a week. I think thats a pretty good start point.

 

[djinhell]

Thanks for the replies guys. Halo, I am looking into the anthony ellis thing right now. It seems eating is a crucial part of me bulking up.

Kerpal, yes I really am 6ft 5in. are you serious about drinking a gallon of milk a day, will it make that much difference?

cheers guys

 

[ssj4halo]

kerpal-did you read what I wrote after that? I said at the end of your back/bicep workout, which is totally fine as long as it is 2-3 sets.(which i guess I should have elaborated on ).

dj- if you do get anthonys program, understand this. you can basically get ALL that information for free from here and other sites. The reason why I suggest it is that it lays everything for you. You dont have to do anything. It switches up your workouts every 3-4 weeks(which a lot of new people, like myself a while ago, didn't know how to do if it werent for the program). On top of that, the book gives scientific explanations(dumbed down) for hormones related to mass gain(if you want to know what exactly you are doing), and how each fats, carbs, protein work. It talks about supplements and how they are good/bad. Lays it all infront of you with you not needing to do any research. It also sites all the facts if you want to get proof of what he is saying is right or wrong.

On top of that you get access to massology.com its a forum with people just like us that can help you no matter WHAT the question is. We actually started a friendly mass competition last week if you want to join.

Just remember, im not trying to sell you anything here. Its something I wish someone told me when I first started lifting. Last of all, as I said before, you can get ALL this information for FREE if you read through the stickies here and follow the suggestions. They are some great stuff here! THe only reason why I bought the program was because I didn't what was right and what was wrong for me. But the stickies in this site are DEAD on. they work. So it is really your call on whatever you choose. Good luck!

 

[I-tallionStallion]

We have two excellent threads on here for building muscle - Where to start and simple diet in the Vault in the H&F forum. Of course Rippetoe is great, Iron Addicts Simple powerlifting - Pick one of these. As long as your doing Deadlifts, incline barbell bench, and deep Squats - that is really all that matters for the most part. All of those are compound lifts that work your whole body. Start a journal on here after you choose one. FYI I chose "where to start: Option B" for a whole year and made excellent gains.

Milk is great but if your senstive to carbs or lactose there is other ways to gain weight. Protein shakes and raw eggs are a great help.

 

[CaptainJ]

Either do the Starting strength routine, or stonglifts 5x5. Fvck those muscle group splits days, they do nothing.

Drink a gallon of milk a day too along with your workout routine. A person your height should be about 215lbs

www.stronglifts.com

 

[Smack]

Too much of you guys have read too much dogma and as such bark out your respective programmes as the only way to go. Well you're wrong. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rippetoes will probably work fine. So will the chest/shoulders/triceps, back/biceps, legs split (although I'd add in legs to the back and biceps day and hit do each part every 5/6 days for increased frequency but it doesn't really matter), and so will Ironaddict's routine (I've done it, by the way, and it is excellent). So will all the other tried and tested beginner routines.

Just pick one and do it as written and do it for as long as possible and eat! It's not rocket science.

Regarding the gallon of milk a day: whilst it's true that it has a lot of carbs and lactose in it, someone who is only 168 lbs probably is very carb tolerant (or he'd be a lot fatter) unless he is really, really skinny fat. I'd go with the gallon of milk a day and if you notice too much fat gain stop.

 

[ssj4halo]

Too much of you guys have read too much dogma and as such bark out your respective programmes as the only way to go. Well you're wrong. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Rippetoes will probably work fine. So will the chest/shoulders/triceps, back/biceps, legs split (although I'd add in legs to the back and biceps day and hit do each part every 5/6 days for increased frequency but it doesn't really matter), and so will Ironaddict's routine (I've done it, by the way, and it is excellent). So will all the other tried and tested beginner routines.

yea, you are right. Some might be better than the other ones, but if you aren't gonna put 100% in it then the difference in the results of whatever program you choose doesn't really matter. Hm hope that made sense.

 

[djinhell]

does this sound good?

Thanks for responses guys, you'll have to forgive me, im totally new to this, and getting so confused BUT...here is what im going to attempt to do...I beleive it is Rippetoes. (Im a student, so I can spend the summer committing and getting used to this)

Week 1:

Monday - Workout A
Wednesday -Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:

Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
**2x8 Dips (if you cant do these or no assist machine then do Decline Dumbbell Bench Press with your hands Facing each other)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Pendlay or Bent Rows (or power cleans)
**2x8 Chin-ups (recommended mainly if doing the cleans)


Im a bit confused with the diet aspect, and I must admit, so much eating really sounds unappealing.

Meal 1 - Shake +Raw Eggs
Meal 2- Beef/veggies
Meal 3- Shake + Raw Eggs
Meal 4- Beef/Veggies
Meal 5- Shake+ Raw Eggs
Meal 6- Chicken Or Tuna/ Fish Oil

lots of milk and water

Is something like the above what I should be eating? and what kind of shakes are they, presumably its some kind of protein shake mixture?

If im going to do this I want to do it right. I beleive my height and body type seems to make great difficulty out of bulking up, so i dont want to commit and get no results, so your input would be very much appreciated :rockon:

 

[Quagmire911]

If I were you, I'd start a log on here so we can help you out. Also, ironaddicts.com is a great source of info.

Rippetoe is fine, stick to it.

A diet like that is what you are looking at. Initially you should be aiming for 250grams of protein and over, then you should be aiming for 300-350g (based on your weight). The rule is 1.5g-2g of protein per pound of bw. Shakes can vary quite a lot, the one I used was:

4 raw eggs+ 2 scoops whey- Lots of protein

You don't need to go down the milk route, although you can if you tolerate carbs and milk well. Otherwise I'd stick to beef and eggs as your main source of protein. My diet when I was in gain mode was:

Meal 1- 4 eggs, two slices of toast, orange juice
Meal 2-4 raw eggs + 2 scoops of whey
Meal 3-3-4 sandwiches with meat of my choosing
Meal 4-4 raw eggs+ 2 scoops of whey
Meal 5-200-250g of meat and veggies, there could be potatoes or bread
Meal 6-200-250g of beef and veggies or more eggs

This gives you an idea. If eating is a problem I'd highly recommend getting betaine hydrochloride, it helps you to digest food and most people are deficient in it. More people would do a lot better if they incorporated it.

I know guys that are tall and haven't got a lot of muscle. I've seen them at the gym once or twice and they struggle with form. That should be your main concern in the first few weeks, getting your form sorted. Getting to the stage where you can lift the weights in a smooth and controlled manner, with both sides of the body contributing equally. Don't let your stronger side take more of the weight.

I would also do incline barbell bench press at this stage, it is safer and learning to flat bench requires time and patience.

Good luck.

 

[djinhell]

If I were you, I'd start a log on here so we can help you out. Also, ironaddicts.com is a great source of info.

Rippetoe is fine, stick to it.

A diet like that is what you are looking at. Initially you should be aiming for 250grams of protein and over, then you should be aiming for 300-350g (based on your weight). The rule is 1.5g-2g of protein per pound of bw. Shakes can vary quite a lot, the one I used was:

4 raw eggs+ 2 scoops whey- Lots of protein

You don't need to go down the milk route, although you can if you tolerate carbs and milk well. Otherwise I'd stick to beef and eggs as your main source of protein. My diet when I was in gain mode was:

Meal 1- 4 eggs, two slices of toast, orange juice
Meal 2-4 raw eggs + 2 scoops of whey
Meal 3-3-4 sandwiches with meat of my choosing
Meal 4-4 raw eggs+ 2 scoops of whey
Meal 5-200-250g of meat and veggies, there could be potatoes or bread
Meal 6-200-250g of beef and veggies or more eggs

This gives you an idea. If eating is a problem I'd highly recommend getting betaine hydrochloride, it helps you to digest food and most people are deficient in it. More people would do a lot better if they incorporated it.

I know guys that are tall and haven't got a lot of muscle. I've seen them at the gym once or twice and they struggle with form. That should be your main concern in the first few weeks, getting your form sorted. Getting to the stage where you can lift the weights in a smooth and controlled manner, with both sides of the body contributing equally. Don't let your stronger side take more of the weight.

I would also do incline barbell bench press at this stage, it is safer and learning to flat bench requires time and patience.

Good luck.

Thanks very much for the reply quagmire.

I think I will drink milk, but I dont think I could manage a gallon a day lol.

a couple of questions though...

-I like the look of your diet, but on meal one, how do you cook the eggs?

-with the why protein and raw eggs shake, do you add water aswell?

-as for the meat, in sandwiches can it be the packs of meat you get from supermarkets, or do I have ro roast beef and chicken constantly?

-also, are the timings of meals that important, or is it ok as long as I get those meals down through the day?

many thanks

 

[Quagmire911]

I had the eggs poached. You can make them however you like. I forgot to mention I also had a scoop of whey in the orange juice.

With the whey and eggs, I added a little water yes.

It can be the packs of meat yes. Just try to get a good quality, and remember you need to be getting enough protein. A lot of these packets rip you off because they don't have a lot in them.

Timing isn't overly important. If youre 2 hours between one meal and the next or 4 hours it isn't a big deal. Try not to have more than 4 hours between meals though, and if youre eating 6 this isn't really possible anyway (if youre getting enough sleep). Thats the great thing about shakes, their very conveinient. Carry them around in a bag, keep them close, and then you can down them in 30 seconds.

This stuff isn't set in stone though. You don't have to have 6 meals, although it is more likely to work and a good idea for beginners. You can have 4, 5, 6 as long as you are getting in the calories and protein. 3 can work, but it would be a pain in the ass eating that much at every meal.

Some other stuff to think about:

If you aren't gaining weight and protein is at 2g/lb add in some fats. Olive oil is good as it is quite calorie dense.

If youre getting to fat you need to lower the amount of carbs. You should be doing cardio and not going overboard on carbs so as to keep fat in check.

Good luck.

 

[djinhell]

Thanks for the replies guys. I am starting from tomorrow..got my supplies ready..except whey protein..I will have to pick that up tuesday.

I will be starting a new thread to log my daily progress..Im sure I will have more questions from tomorrow and onwards

 

[Smack]

And a version better suited for the vast majority of people attempting it. Rows target more musculature, are safer and easier to learn than power cleans. Power cleans are a very technical lift - one which you're going to be doing wrong, most certainly, unless you have someone qualified to personally coach you. Olympic lifters have a much higher injury rate than bodybuilders or powerlifters. The rows are a better option for someone who just wants to bulk up and get stronger.

 

[Smack]

I disagree with that. I'm not sure why everyone makes it seem like it's so hard to teach yourself to do power cleans. You're jumping and catching a bar on your shoulders - it's really not that difficult. I think it's just the same reason most people, even those who know better, do quarter-squats instead of full squats - they're just lazy. I also don't think rows target more musculature than cleans. Rows pretty much target the upper back, cleans use almost the entire body other than the arms.

Well if that's what you think cleans are then you're wrong. They, like all fast momentum lifts, are an extremely complex and technical lift. Anyone who knows clean form says this. Poliquin, Siff et all.

Rows do target more musculature than cleans. They target the lats, rear delts, biceps, brachialis, spinal erectors and hip stabilisers. Plus you're getting more time under tension with rows than cleans which is a big factor in gaining muscle mass. And you've got an eccentric portion as well (and it is the eccentric portion of the lift that 'builds muscle' to be basic and use crude terminology).

I'd like to see a source for your claim that O-lifters have a higher injury rate than powerlifters or bodybuilders, but even if it's true, I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. The vast majority of people here just want to look pretty at the beach, not participate in competitive weightlifting, so it's not really a valid comparison. They're not going to be training twice a day 6 times a week or pulling themselves under a double bodyweight barbell anytime soon.

Source: it was from Ironaddics.com. Powerlifters and bodybuilders apparently have an almost identical injury rate but oly lifters are way higher.

If you want to look pretty at the beach then rows are superior to cleans.

Rippetoe himself on rows:

(http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3142)



Cleans will help your deadlift a lot more than rows will.

Rippetoe says a lot of stupid things, this being one of them. Every other 'expert' agrees that rows are an excellent movement. It's why every other routine has rows in them. And rows will help your bench a lot more than cleans will.

 

[Smack]

That is what cleans are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

And where did I say cleans were not complex or technical? They are more complicated than the deadlift or bench press, but definitely not something you can't learn on your own.

Well again I'm relying on the fact that some of the biggest proponents of the Olympic lifts, like Poliquin, don't recommend that people learn them on their own.

But cleans use almost every muscle in the body, except for the arms. Rows use mostly the arms and upper back. They don't use the legs at all for example.

For a very short period of time. There is very little time under tension in the clean compared to the row, and no eccentric portion.

Also, cleans will help your deadlift a lot more than rows will, and a stronger deadlift will make you bigger (and prettier ) than a stronger row.

You don't need to do cleans to get a strong deadlift. I've seen Andy Bolton's training and did not see cleans. There are some guys with monster deadlifts like Coan who do cleans, but they are the minority.

Rows have more of an 'aesthetic' effect, hence why bodybuilders do them rather than cleans.

Do you have a link?

Search for "olympic".

What else does Rippetoe say that you think it stupid?

Plenty of things, from a Q&A at Elitefts he says safety squat bar squats are 2/3 less effective because there is no hamstrings involved, that trap bar deadlifts are dangerous because the bar is not stabilised against the hips, and that you can squat what you can set up in a monolift.

The guy is a moron and I wouldn't take his advice past the beginner stage.

If you want to get big and/or strong for anything other than a bench press competition, a strong deadlift is more important than a strong bench press. And cleans will help your deadlift more than rows will.

If you're at the stage where SS is the best thing for you then you don't need anything other than deadlifting to get better at deadlifting. And once you are past that stage then there are tons of other more effective lifts that are better for hypertrophy that will benefit your deadlift more (e.g. rack pulls, snatch grip deadlifts, deficit deadlifts).

 

[Smack]

We're talking about power cleans here, not the full snatch and clean and jerk. Although i still think you can learn the latter on your own, they are more complicated than the power clean.

Well that's just your opinion and it contradicts some of the best strength coaches who are proponents of olympic lifts of athlete's opinions.

You don't need cleans, but they sure do help. And many powerlifters (including Bolton, Westside Barbell, etc) do speed work, which serves the same purpose as cleans - making you more explosive, which has a carryover to the deadlift.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that, and they do not use a complicated lift like cleans for DE work anyway.

Again, a strong deadlift will be more 'aesthetic' than a strong row. A stronger deadlift will make more muscles bigger than a stronger row, and more muscles = prettier. And cleans will make your deadlift stronger than rows will.

We're going round and round in circles here. But missing out a horizontal pull leads to an underdevolped physique and can also lead to postural problems. There are two presses in the programme, ergo there should be at least one upper pulling movement.

I don't know about the SSB squats, didn't understand the monolift comment, but I agree with him on the trap bar. I never really understood the point of using a trap bar anyway.

Ever used a trap bar? Why don't you phone up Joe Defranco, Louie Simmons or someone else that gets extremely good use from the trap bar?

IMO cleans/speed work are better than all of those as an all around movement for increasing the deadlift. I see rack pulls and etc. as more of a way to work specific weak points.

In which case you're wrong. I've never known of anyone use cleans and cleans only to increase the deadlift. Deficit and rack deads are extremely popular for increasing the deadlift - even by those that do do cleans.

 

[EFFORT]

Power cleans are a great exercise but extremely unnecessary for people just trying to build a pretty body.