Ph.D Archaeology

[AAAgent]

Well after years and years of parents telling me no, cousins telling me no, and friends telling me no, fvck it! I'm pursuing my Ph.D in Archaeology.

This took a huge chunk of frustration out of my daily life to finally know what i want to do. Before this my goal was to find a job and pay off my debt which i have done besides school loans. Since then i've been rolling around in Corporate America figuring what the hell i'm doing with myself.

I won't make millions, I may not be able to have a family but fvck all that. It's better than not knowing what i want in life and doing something just because its logical. I love history, war, travelling, getting down and dirty. My entrepreneurial spirit will thrive on the side. I've already bought study materials for the GRE and started studying.

I've always been interested in reading about wars, ancient mythology, history, classical literature, etc.

I think i'm all set in life. I have a career/goal/dream, i'm getting my motorcycle and working towards my license, in pretty good shape and hitting the gym consistently, and no longer have to worry about what i'm doing with my life. All i have to worry about is what i need to do for my life.

I know so many people that are doctors, nurses, pharmacists, accountants not because they want to be but because it pays well or their moms and dads told them to do it. I'm not one of those people. Never took to authority real well.

 

[Road Demon]

I suggest you read:

The Disposable Academic -Why doing a PhD is often a waste of time
in the Economist Magazine

http://www.economist.com/node/17723223

And if you do go PhD, make sure you got Top 20 program in the Nation and GET IT FULLY PAID FOR. NO LOANS. Why not work full time and get a masters to statisfy your intellectual needs.

Careers such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, accountants are much better choices.

Cheers,
RD

 

[AAAgent]

I'm actually working FT now while studying for my GRE's to get into a Masters program and then i will apply for a Ph.D program. You're right about the funding part. I'm going to do everything in my power and more to make sure I get FULL funding.

I'm also not getting a Ph.D to raise my value, social status, etc. I'm doing it for my love of learning about a cultures past, present, and possible future. I've survived through this piece of sh1t financial economy having to fight my way to survive, finding work while having a PhD i'm pretty sure won't be much more difficult than that.

 

[Road Demon]

Having a PhD is a significant liability in a bad economy, if companies can chose between a masters level with 4-5 years experience that can do the job vs. a freshly minted PhD with no experience in the field, who do you think they are more likely to select? In an academic setting, with much less grant funding than 10 years ago can be very significant challenge to fund your position and do your research. Know with a PhD, you are competing for a more senior level position like manager or director, rather than a technician spot.

Post PhD expect a being a Post-Doc making 40K for 1-5 years.

Doing a PhD is bad economy might have some merit as Most PhD stipends are between 15-27K/yr + health insurance with tuition remission.

The PhD is perhaps the most difficult life journey you can make that takes 5-6 years. On average 10 people start a PhD, 4 actually complete it. It is not that difficult to get into with decent GRE scores and say a GPA 3.3/3.5, but more difficult to finish than say a MD, JD, or PharmD.

What is required for a PhD is about a year of courses, and then 4 years of research where you must contribute to the understanding/knowledge of your field through a publication. If you don't publish your thesis in a quality peer reviewed journal, that PhD is not worth much. As post PhD you need to publish and get grant money to be successful.

A PhD can help get you laid, lol. It does help with status.

 

[AAAgent]

I'm not normally a person that goes around flaunting my status. I tend to find that attitude pompous and somewhat unattractive so i don't do it too much. I have done it before though for the girls.

I'm assuming you have your PhD by the way your talking. I would like to pursue my PhD directly but sadly it would not be likely possible with my GPA and degree. My degree is totally unrelated to archaeology and my gpa sucks. It was hard enough obtaining experience and interviewing skills to land me my job now.

finding a job is a lot like finding a girlfriend. I've bombed so many times, made myself look stupid, ive *reached* for jobs that i hopelessly wanted but knew i would never get. But slowly and steadily i acquired field skills, experience, and presentation skills that finally landed me a job. The hard work, persistence, and dj attitude of seeking to always enrich your life is what got me there. In the beginning i definitely felt unworthy of any position but i still had to try. By the end of my job hunting, i knew i was worth what i was selling myself for and more. Even though i was broke, i had the attitude of "look if you don't want me, your loss. I'm one of the most creative, persistent and hard working individuals you'll likely come across."

Once again, i'm pursuing this field because i won't be happy doing anything else nor would i settle doing something i don't really enjoy. I do want to be an entrepreneur but i can do that on the side which correctly reflects how it isn't my main focus. I really want to learn languages, cultures, travel, and possibly teach.

I spend a lot of my time doing retarded crap that would never benefit me in the corporate world. I look at why tree's shake the way they do and ponder how it is the bark is shaped the way it is (what it had to go through to evolve to that shape). You ever watch rain droplets flow and travel? One droplet, the main droplet paves the way and the rest just automatically follow. They all converge onto the leaders path. When it rains down a windsheild or window, if you look carefully only a select few droplets will make it to the bottom. The ones that do are the ones that pave the way for all the other droplets.


anyways, I've wasted a decent amount of time. Luckily it was now while i'm young.

I dabbled in nursing, chemistry (pharmacy school), business, law, finance (M&A, PE, etc.), and history. It's really relieving figuring out where you belong/want to do, etc. as opposed to wandering around hoping you'll figure it out eventually. That's how some people end up miserable.

 

[Speculator E]

In the physics community, there are physicists with PhD that admit they got it because of their love of physics and ignored the economic reality of the situation. There is currently a glut of science PhD and most of them end up working for years as low paying post-docs. It can be years before they can find a stable job, and that's only if they are one of the lucky ones. Finding a job for these scientists is a constant struggle. Even needing to move all over the country just to work, and not necessarily a high paying job.

You better be sure you're doing this for the right reasons and you better be sure you researched your employment opportunities thoroughly. There are some situations where the advice of "doing what you love" does not apply.

 

[JT7890]

Here's my two cents on this:

Road Demon

And if you do go PhD, make sure you got Top 20 program in the Nation and GET IT FULLY PAID FOR. NO LOANS. Why not work full time and get a masters to statisfy your intellectual needs.

Well, you can't get a PhD until you FIRST get a Masters, so he's going to need to get a Masters anyway. Number two, depending on what area he goes into (whether his position is for a profit or non profit entity) the government loans can be damn near forgiven now due to a new law created in 2007. I suggest the OP read go here: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PSF.jsp. You can add in Stafford Loans and Grad Plus Loans on this program. You can put together a pretty good strategy to get damn near all or a significant portion of the loans forgiven even.

And number three, DO NOT go to a top 20 school in the nation. You will rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in DEBT. I never understood why alot of folks go to these big names schools really just for the "name" and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in DEBT, when they could have received the same benefit, same program, at accredited and credible colleges for a fraction of the cost.

Road Demon

Careers such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, accountants are much better choices.

NO THEY ARE NOT if you aren't talented in those areas. Some people seem to think that every doctor or lawyer for example, is just rolling in dough and that's not so. I know a number and work with a number of doctors and lawyers that make well less then $100k a year and some can barely keep the lights on.

Do what you are TALENTED IN.

Road Demon

The PhD is perhaps the most difficult life journey you can make that takes 5-6 years. On average 10 people start a PhD, 4 actually complete it. It is not that difficult to get into with decent GRE scores and say a GPA 3.3/3.5, but more difficult to finish than say a MD, JD, or PharmD.

This is way off base.

College is an individual experience, what you put in you get out; it has NOTHING to do with how other people failed or succeeded. Hell if that's the case, let's look at the numbers on Associate or Bachelor programs, and how an even BIGGER number of people start those programs and don't finish. If you have the drive, determination, dedication, and resources available at the school you are attending, you CAN complete your program.

AAAgent

I'm assuming you have your PhD by the way your talking. I would like to pursue my PhD directly but sadly it would not be likely possible with my GPA and degree. My degree is totally unrelated to archaeology and my gpa sucks. It was hard enough obtaining experience and interviewing skills to land me my job now.

There's PhDs out there that only require a Masters degree to let you in. I would assume that if you received a Masters degree your GPA has to AT LEAST be over 2.5 or 2.8 depending on the school you are going to, for me to complete my Masters I need to keep a 3.0. Also seeing as though you haven't started your Masters yet, there are joint Masters-PhD programs out there that you might want to look into.

Also again I repeat you don't have to go to a school that will cost $200,000 for the PhD, there are a TON of choices out there to choose from that can get you the PhD in about 3-4 years at a fraction of the price that are accredited, receive Title IV funding, etc. I KNOW because I'm starting a PhD in December of this year when I'm done with my Masters in the Fall.

Speculator E

You better be sure you're doing this for the right reasons. There are some situations where the advice of "doing what you love" does not apply.

He has time, he still has to complete the Masters. Here's what I will tell you, look OUTSIDE THE BOX. You do NOT have to go to the first University down the block or the one with the huge name and rack up $200,000 in college debt. Shop for a college with a credible program at the fraction of tuition costs, UNDERSTAND the financial aid programs out there along with the various repayment programs, UNDERSTAND the benefits in the tax code from tuition/loan interest, and also, if you have the time you could try doing AmeriCorps on the side as they will provide a living stipend and a college grant towards the end. Now, some AmeriCorps programs won't allow you to do it while you are attending school, but the one I went to part time allowed me to continue going to school as during that time I had all online courses during that semester. Also if you are at the poverty level right now in income, consider the IDA (individual development account), I did that program twice. The IDA is where you will save a set amount of money each month for at least one year, once you hit your savings goal they will match it either 3 to 1 or 4 to 1.

Also another thing I would recommend is that you hang around COLLEGE PEOPLE more and obtain ideas from them. People that are not in college or not pursuing said degree ALWAYS provide their misconceptions on college that will lead you in the wrong direction. Either they will tell you what specific program you ought to major in (as if they KNOW your talents) or they will tell you as a whole that college as a whole (no matter if we are talking a Bachelors, Masters, or a Doctoral program) is all a waste of time.

 

[Road Demon]

Speculator E has provided very Sage Advice.

I'm not trying to derail your goal, I'm just trying to Inform you of the long journey ahead. You seem very passionate about your choice, and if your do something that is your passion then it is not work. The PhD is 5-7 years, it is very difficult to finish in less than 4 unless it is professional PhD, like a Psych D.

There is law of diminishing return in terms of income on education past the masters degree, except for professional doctorates like MD, JD, and PharmD. This is because the time in school does not offset the lost income while school.

As far as your GPA, you need a 3.0 to get into a Quality Grad School PhD Program, but hopefully you will have stronger GREs to improve your application. I would recommend that if your undergraduate grades are decent then apply directly to PhD program (no Masters) assuming acceptable GRE scores and good interview.

A quality PhD program should provide tuition remission and a source of funding, say 15-27K through a research grant or a teaching assistant-ship. I would not recommend taking out extensive loans to get a PhD, as the return on investment might not happen. You should be aware that govenment education loans are not discharged with bankruptcy.

If your undergraduate GPA is under 3.0 you might want to get begin a Masters, be a rock-star and aim for 3.5+ GPA and then transfer into a PhD program after 1 year. You will likely be able to transfer 12-20 Masters credits into a PhD program, but that depends on the reputation of the school your are transferring credits from.

I have a Science PhD & Post Doctoral Training from a Tier 1 National Research University.

Go to the best PhD program you can attend, but choose mentor with high visibility in the field with good research, grant funding, and publication record. There are some very good mentors at State U schools. NO online garbage PhD programs that are waste of money.

A PhD does automatically confer status. ie high social value and makes you more interesting, assuming you don't flaunt you knowledge, have normal social skills, and treat people equal to yourself.

Work hard and you will successful.

 

[AAAgent]

I'm not really sure what JT is talking about.

directly going for a PhD is not likely to happen as i said since my GPA is well below 3.0. Therefor i've opted to pursue a masters first. I plan on getting atleast a 1300 on my GRE's and great letters of recommendation. I'm trying to work out volunteering on a dig this spring for 1 month. I've got the connections to potential land a spot but i need to work out whether or not i'd be able to take a 1 month vacation off of work straight.

first of all, i'm not going to a PhD program were i have to pay. I wouldn't put myself in that position. Second i'm going to work towards getting decent funding as well.

I'm pursuing East Asian archaeology and i'm fluent in speaking mandarin/cantonese, i have basic understanding of korean reading/writing/speaking, and i have about 8+ classes of japanese. I pursued the east asian languages hardcore in my undergrad.

any PhD archaeology program requires you to get highly skills in 1 foreign language and proficient in atleast another 1-2. Language skills will go a long way in ANY field. It's still my goal to be fluent in all East Asian languages. I'm currently working and saving money for my masters.

edit---

JT7890

The majority of your information was not informative or helpful.

First off, you obviously haven't done your research on obtaining a PhD in a field that requires extensive research and field work. Not many people go for PhD without atleast having their tuition reduced to a manageable cost if not fully covered. Don't know where you got the hundreds of thousands from. Heck i know not only people in social sciences seek covered tuitions but business (econ), and sciences (chem, physics) PhD grads. It's common sense. Who the h3ck would be seeking a PhD if it put them in a situation where they would spend the rest of their lives paying off only tuition? Like undergrad wasn't enough?!

Secondly, what kind of idiot would not aim to get into the best school that they could possible get into. Do you know how hard it is to get a good field experience? You need to go to a school that has good funding, department, and faculty specialized in particular field so that you actually have a chance at getting experience. A credible school just won't cut it. This is why its so competitive.

3-4 year Phd?? that's ridiculous. I don't know what field your generalizing that for but PhD's on average for sciences and social sciences are around 7 years. 5 years is possible but pretty tough.

I never said you could. You can't go directly into a PhD program, you have to get a Masters first. I said you could potentially do a joint Masters-PhD program as some universities carry this.

You don't need a masters first to get into a PhD program. I could attempt to go straight for it but i am lacking severely in credentials. That is why I'm going for a masters first.

I don't see how i can be competitive by going to a credible/mediocre PhD program that will probably not have enough funding, forcing me to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars where i obtain a ****ty 3-4 year PhD with no field experience.

Before you give advice, please atleast do some research on the particular topic.

Archaeology is a subset of Anthropology in the social sciences. Anthropology is already a pretty small and unique field of study and Archaeology gets even more specific.

 

[JT7890]

I'm not really sure what JT is talking about.

I pretty much spelled everything out.

directly going for a PhD is not likely to happen as i said since my GPA is well below 3.0.

I never said you could. You can't go directly into a PhD program, you have to get a Masters first. I said you could potentially do a joint Masters-PhD program as some universities carry this.

first of all, i'm not going to a PhD program were i have to pay. I wouldn't put myself in that position.

Good luck on that.

 

[synergy1]

I'll put this out there from a technical background regarding a PHD: if you don't have the grades to be a shoe in for a masters program, there is very little hope you have the metal to complete a rigorous PHD program. With a sub 3.0 in a non technical field, I very much question your capabilities within even a masters program - all this contingent upon what has been stated here, as there could be more which factor into it. As a point of reference, I finished my undergraduate program with a GPA significantly higher than the mean, and still struggled to complete a solid masters thesis ( research is serious business!) - I would not have made it through a PHD in my field or it would have been very slow.

Ask yourself a practical question; why do you need a PHD to do this? If you are so interested, whats stopping you from starting the research/ work right now? You know you don't need to go to school to be an expert on something, you can do it for free and just as well if you are a critical enough thinker.

 

[Yotsuya-san]

A PhD can help get you laid, lol. It does help with status.

Forget it. To them, it only means you may make more $$. Doesn't say anything about how interesting they'll find you. Degrees in liberal arts and humanities (such as literature or social sciences for example) are generally much more interesting to most women despite the fact that science degrees (like the ones I have) are so much more difficult to achieve. It's not the effort, it's the subject matter that they identify with. Women identify with subjects that have more human content, regardless of the degree and the difficulty of the subject.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

I generally would advice against a PHD in the social sciences unless you have a way to get it paid for otherwise the degree will never pay for itself.

You don't need a PHD to be an archaeologist and according to this site http://acra-crm.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=12 an archaeologist with a Master's Degree only makes about 10k less than a person with a PHD.

The problem with most recent PHD graduates especially in the social sciences is there are way more graduates than available jobs. A guy I know recently completed his PHD in philosophy and can't find a job with his degree. He's now contemplating moving outside the United States to look for work. Many PHD graduates wind up toiling away for years as assistant professors making only 35-45K a year. Finding a tenured position at a major university is akin to winning the lottery.

 

[JT7890]

AAA I'm not trying to get into a pissing match, but I will explain more on what my post was hinting on.

The majority of your information was not informative or helpful.

First off, you obviously haven't done your research on obtaining a PhD in a field that requires extensive research and field work. Not many people go for PhD without atleast having their tuition reduced to a manageable cost if not fully covered.

There's no PhD program that doesn't require extensive research and field work. The PhD I'm starting next year will be a PhD in Business with a Management specialization. My PhD is not fully paid for but I have shopped around to get it down to a "reasonable" cost. The cost for the entire program that I have selected will be between $40k - $50k for the entire thing.

As far as getting it paid for in full, hell, I'm open to ideas on how to do this if you have them? I have researched grants and scholarships and they are very competitive to obtain. There's assistantships out there and stipends, but you have to do some type of direct work for the school or teach part-time, I'm not seeking my PhD to teach and I don't have time to work for the school I've chosen. So what other ideas do you have in my situation?

If you don't get it free or covered, what are you going to do then? Not go?

Don't know where you got the hundreds of thousands from.

Well the conversation was about TOP schools. Most of these schools for a graduate program can range from $13k to $20k a year or more. Say it takes you ten years to get done with the PhD, that's $200k on tuition alone.

Heck i know not only people in social sciences seek covered tuitions but business (econ), and sciences (chem, physics) PhD grads. It's common sense. Who the h3ck would be seeking a PhD if it put them in a situation where they would spend the rest of their lives paying off only tuition? Like undergrad wasn't enough?!

Well, what do you do when you can't get it for free? Not go or shop around to find a lower costing school with the same program structure and benefits so that you can manage paying for it?

Secondly, what kind of idiot would not aim to get into the best school that they could possible get into.

Because they can't get it for free and have to pay out of pocket. Thus, they shop around because the tuition is TOO HIGH at the very TOP and popular schools. I can get an accredited and credible business degree without going to Harvard.

Do you know how hard it is to get a good field experience? You need to go to a school that has good funding, department, and faculty specialized in particular field so that you actually have a chance at getting experience. A credible school just won't cut it. This is why its so competitive.

Well, ultimately it's your choice, if you can get funding for it go for it. I don't have funding for mines, so I have to do what I have to do.

As far as how hard it is to get good field experience, again, I'm a business major. I'm not JUST going to school only, I'm working in the office, investing, AND going to school. So I am IN the field while ALSO in the classroom.

3-4 year Phd?? that's ridiculous. I don't know what field your generalizing that for but PhD's on average for sciences and social sciences are around 7 years. 5 years is possible but pretty tough.

Yes 5 - 7 years is an average, depending upon how fast you work through the program and the type of instructors you have. Some people take alot longer and some never finish.

You don't need a masters first to get into a PhD program. I could attempt to go straight for it but i am lacking severely in credentials. That is why I'm going for a masters first.

Well, for my major you do at the institutions I've researched.

Before you give advice, please atleast do some research on the particular topic.

Listen, there's more then one way to do something. I provided my perspective based upon my situation and what I'm doing and did. My entire college career has been based upon thinking outside the box, however, you seemingly have a more modern traditional approach, to each his own.

Your "way" is not the "only" way.

 

[AAAgent]

Just updating for anyone interested in pursuing a PhD in a history related subject. I ended up deciding to test the waters first and i applied to a whole bunch of gigs for archaeology. Most of them you have to pay for but luckily i found one that i didn't have to pay for. It was a great experience diving underwater in the Mediterranean but after 3 weeks, actually even before 3 weeks were over, i realized i didn't want to do this. It's a fun lifestyle but its impossible to make money, have a home, have a family, and your stuck in very bad weather/conditions generally as most places un-explored are far away from civilization/cities.

I was expecting all of this but then you see the people there, some are having fun sleeping with women from different cities and traveling while others are stuck with long distance girlfriends/wives but i realized i want to be the guy who funds the organization. While we are out there doing all the dirty work, the millionaire who started the organization is living in the most expensive hotel in the most expensive room in the entire city. The main chaperone who watches us, has a stack of money the guy gives him and pays for all of our food and arranges everything. He shows up to eat dinner and leaves (doesn't touch his wallet because his butler/our chaperone guy covers it). We pick him up every morning in his boat so he can go dive for fun and search for buried treasure/shipwrecks. When he's done, he takes off all his stuff and we drop him off at the hotel and go back to cleaning his gear, etc.

So although it was a great experience, i would like the option of doing that when i want to, not doing it all the time because i have to.