Paradox

[bat soup]

I've found that terms like "chase" and "passive" are relative and framed from the male perspective on Sosuave.

True, women don't approach like men approach. They do chase. Many men can't get out of their logical minds and see the more-than-obvious initiations that women make. I would say 80% of the time, when a man thinks he's been successfully audacious with a woman, he's really just played his part without realizing her audacity - because it's subtle. At some point she gives him control - and she gives him plenty of opportunities to fukk it up.

But this is Sosuave, the terms are framed by men, which is fine - whatever helps them improve. I'm seeing a different paradigm. The whole ball field and all nine innings.

It's true that women are subtle. Incredibly subtle, unless you know what to look for. And then it's glaringly obvious.

 

[Vantagepoint34]

I agree wholeheartedly. I have stated around here countless times that the best women operate this way. The best you’ll do perhaps is you’ll get swiped on by a woman on OLD. That by itself is the indicator of interest. From there, be a man & initiate. Otherwise the chick will select from those men who are acting like a man and initiating...all you are in an online dating profile is a paragraph & a few photos. Pretty low investment. Understand that, cast a wide net, and contact women. You’ll do fine.

I don’t do OLD, and the couple of times I’ve tried I’ve lasted a week and that’s it. Too much of a time sink. I meet men going about my life rather than online...and I find I meet the kind of men I’d like to meet by going places I like to go.

As to other posters crying about “well you couldn’t survive if you were men....?” How childish. If females were males we’d be male, right, so just like men. But we are women. Men desire the company of women. That’s not news. Women have strengths on different things than men, which again should be understood. Men and women are built to complement one another. And how healthy women approach the mating realm is different than how men approach it.

I know men who expect to be chased after. Without exception the women willing to chase are less attractive, less desirable, less of a package than a woman who requires effort from a man. These women are also insecure and needy/clingy, which gets old fast. In other words expecting women to chase is selecting for a sub optimal slice of the market. Sure you can get laid doing that if you as a guy has game. But you will end up with the crazies and psychos who are insecure and too unstable to develop a quality interaction with a quality man.

And then you’ll wonder why you don’t have a quality relationship at some point. You take on the female/feminine role when you expect the woman to chase. That puts the woman in the masculine role of the hunter. Healthy women don’t do that. They are feminine and demure & wait for a man to approach them. That is the natural order of things.

Expecting women to chase sets you up to have relationships with domineering women...also not natural. But passive men typically end up with??? Domineering women. Don’t set it up that way.

Men approach/initiate, women respond. That is optimal. Even today in 2021.

No. Wait a minute...rebuttle here. You don't agree Males in the future don't get wiped out? 2021 has changed. The normal girl that lives at the gym was interrupted by gym closures. Ladies have veras Fat put on weight. It's well known women don't handle the extra weight(that's a big dynamic). Look at the science predicted only women are left. Orange tans prevail. We've met in the past for sure lol small world :crazy:

 

[BeExcellent]

I've found that terms like "chase" and "passive" are relative and framed from the male perspective on Sosuave.

True, women don't approach like men approach. They do chase. Many men can't get out of their logical minds and see the more-than-obvious initiations that women make. I would say 80% of the time, when a man thinks he's been successfully audacious with a woman, he's really just played his part without realizing her audacity - because it's subtle. At some point she gives him control - and she gives him plenty of opportunities to fukk it up.

But this is Sosuave, the terms are framed by men, which is fine - whatever helps them improve. I'm seeing a different paradigm. The whole ball field and all nine innings.

Those are fair points Sam. Women will signal interest in subtle ways. Not always but often. And men miss these signals often unless they know what to look for.

I’ve also seen women act very overt toward high value men. I’ve had women hit on the man I’m dating shamelessly and in an aggressive sexualized way (offers for BJs etc.)...interestingly enough my guy has told me about the overture, and that while he finds it flattering he also finds it weird and tasteless...which ultimately is a turn off rather than a turn on. And it tells me which women in my social environs are vipers. That is useful information to have.

 

[BeExcellent]

No. Wait a minute...rebuttle here. You don't agree Males in the future don't get wiped out? 2021 has changed. The normal girl that lives at the gym was interrupted by gym closures. Ladies have veras Fat put on weight. It's well known women don't handle the extra weight(that's a big dynamic). Look at the science predicted only women are left. Orange tans prevail. We've met in the past for sure lol small world :crazy:

Not sure where you are located but this is not what I’m seeing in my area nor is it what my almost 19 year old son sees. Well. His GF has put on some weight over the last year. But he is still the man leading that relationship and she defers to him as should be the case.

I remain fit & trim & really never missed a beat. Socializing became more dependent on social circle & social connection for awhile but life was still going on. Just had to be more creative and private. So best to be well connected.

The idea that humans are suddenly going to devolve to a degree where males go away and females reproduce a la some amphibians under population/extinction pressure like spontaneous generation is just a strange sci fi infused view. If someone is leading with those sorts of ideas out in the world, normal women are going to find that whack (if they even understand the biological reference at all) and that isn’t going to appeal.

Men need to learn the basics of social interaction. Trouble is many men do not realize they are clueless. That in itself is an issue.

 

[Visionist]

Men need to learn the basics of social interaction. Trouble is many men do not realize they are clueless. That in itself is an issue.

I'm rarely social in the sense of making plans to spend time with friends. When I'm with people however I tend to become the centre of the interaction process, and if I'm not I consider the interaction a waste. When I'm around people I consider to have higher value than me it can go either way. If I don't see them as competition it's easy to befriend them. Usually however I face chronic social anxiety and some strangers even display open hostility without provocation.

I haven't seen my best friend since October last year. We text each other briefly every few days.

I have a difficult time defining what I am socially.

 

[Vantagepoint34]

Not sure where you are located but this is not what I’m seeing in my area nor is it what my almost 19 year old son sees. Well. His GF has put on some weight over the last year. But he is still the man leading that relationship and she defers to him as should be the case.

I remain fit & trim & really never missed a beat. Socializing became more dependent on social circle & social connection for awhile but life was still going on. Just had to be more creative and private. So best to be well connected.

The idea that humans are suddenly going to devolve to a degree where males go away and females reproduce a la some amphibians under population/extinction pressure like spontaneous generation is just a strange sci fi infused view. If someone is leading with those sorts of ideas out in the world, normal women are going to find that whack (if they even understand the biological reference at all) and that isn’t going to appeal.

Men need to learn the basics of social interaction. Trouble is many men do not realize they are clueless. That in itself is an issue.

Well from new findings in science which describes body types of women. Leans toward two body types young and fit. Also which applies to both still have difficult times in the gym in general. Considering men's bodies which mold and can drop excess pounds into 16% bodyfat quickly. Yea connection or in professional life I keep an aura of social proof which is hard to describe. We aren't in extinction. Yet the world faces drought conditions. Also is leaning towards famine (if you follow the mayan calendar) so signs say drought/famine has lead something only compared to from older hollywood movies. If we're still basing formula on the ideal woman of a fleixible/giver that is loyal with integrity and high interest level. Most modern or the younger generation on spongebob seems like they learned to be non-flexible takers(modern women that don't counteroffer)ex. I want pizza my gf say no she rather have tacos or even case of furninture I want the blue couch she says red couch. Meaning it's the paralell and dynamic of relationships to not go along(also can be screened withing first six months of dating with only solution to next said lady in question). If anything guys can work confidence but scenery like the modern office take the man's control and challenge. If anything we presently are pioneering a work from home ability. To date something like work from home in the past was more scrutinized and frowned on by the workforce with their commuting/new cars. Haha. I've been in south Florida since 96' so the pool of supermodels,fashionistas, and overweight women is always fluctuating. I thought growing up in NY was fun yet SF is always changing and finally fluctuating.

 

[Vantagepoint34]

This is something in dating advice that has always bugged me. On the surface at least, it appears to be a contradiction, or a paradox:

Women supposedly hate it if the guy wants her more than she wants him (very bad for attraction).
But if a guy cold approaches, isn't that an indication that he wants her more than she wants him? She's certainly not the one wanting him here, he's the one who went up to her.

Obviously not talking about a situation where she sends him a thousand IOIs before he approaches.

OP I love daygame in the Mall. Almost in my mid 30's sadly I'm turned off by bar/cruise type enviorments. The hard one is if you don't game the mall. Only leaves with two options running game at the casino possibly a restaurant type like starbucks. My Pua skills have stayed the same only have one DD book by memory. Occasionally use it. April 2020 was my last date. The hispanic pool of women in Orlando/SF is limited. Have considered in the past vacations in California or chicago respectively. So finally love Mall day game to this day. More field reports coming up in future. Finally on a guy wanting a girl more than vice versa. You can negate it by using an air of mystery. 20 years ago women loved mystery. Today not so sure if mystery is being dismissed as passive or women are into pump n' dump. Once again have to consider game in europe or Russia in a serious way.

 

[zekko]

OP I love daygame in the Mall. Almost in my mid 30's sadly I'm turned off by bar/cruise type enviorments.

I don't think it's sad at all, it's a trash environment, especially when you reach a certain level of maturity.

I used to love going to the mall and looking for girls to flirt with. There was a certain energy there you could feel, and there were always lots of young, attractive girls because girls shop and buy a lot of clothes. Plus back then hanging out at the mall was a thing. Now days many malls are on the downslide, if not gone altogether. Also, being an old bastard, a trip to the mall just isn't the same as when I was younger, it doesn't have the sense of potential it once did. Enjoy it while you can.