Paradox of the Don Juan.

[switch7]

I've not been on this forum that long and I'm by no means a DJ or carry the DJ mind set as of yet. I do however think I am grasping the theory which I think in some cases others may have muddled so I just want to point something out and would like to hear others thoughts on this.

From what I have read, Don Juan is a mythical character and in reality from what I read about this guy he was probably very insecure and could only hold himself together with his ability to seduce women, which probably involved spinning a lot of plates.

To me 'Don Juan' is a label that has multiple interpretations from person to person.

Everyone comes here in the beginning because they want to become a Don Juan and get a laid multiple times a week and/or not get screwed over by women. They want a quick fix approach and to get out there and get balls deep. The twist in this is that to achieve this you have to start to not care about women or outcomes. This is the reality and also the paradox.

Like playing golf; if you know you really gotta land that ball on the green from 150 yards then there's a good chance you won't(outcome dependant). But if you aren't too fussed where it lands but still aim in the direction of the green there's a good chance it will land on the green. (outcome independent)

I've read a lot of threads on here and a lot of them are titled 'Girl gone cold one me, been dumped, how do I keep her?' etc. These are usually first time posters, hell I was one of them when I first joined.

Now a lot of guys say the solution to this is, 'get over it and spin more plates.' Getting over it I agree with but spinning plates when you have a faulty mindset.. I don't think this is the answer, not yet anyway. Spinning plates before you have dealt with your own self worth issues is like redressing a wound every week to hold off infection, but never seeing it fully heal. Its what asw's do.

The way I see it to is forget about women full stop until you create a life that makes you happy or at least until you see significant improvement in your self worth, and become more independent of women and life's outcomes. After that you won't let a woman, person, situation ever affect you again because you will have the inner tools to handle it. And then by all means you can spin plates as a means of enjoyment but not as a means of keeping an ego intact.

I really think being a don juan, or at least being a healthy minded don juan (alpha male), is not about getting women, it's about becoming the best version of yourself. After that the women will come as bi product. But by that point women really will be of little importance to you anyway, just a bonus, something to keep you occupied when you have a spare hour in your fulfilling lifestyle.

In my eyes there's a lot of irony in becoming a don juan, as there is with lots of other worthwhile endeavours in life. The pot of gold you find at the end of the rainbow isn't always the same pot of gold you had in mind when you started out. Either way, its still a nice pot of gold.

Your thoughts?

 

[Reykhel]

The game is played in the field and practice makes perfect

I've not been on this forum that long and I'm by no means a DJ or carry the DJ mind set as of yet. I do however think I am grasping the theory which I think in some cases others may have muddled so I just want to point something out and would like to hear others thoughts on this.

From what I have read, Don Juan is a mythical character and in reality from what I read about this guy he was probably very insecure and could only hold himself together with his ability to seduce women, which probably involved spinning a lot of plates.

To me 'Don Juan' is a label that has multiple interpretations from person to person.

Everyone comes here in the beginning because they want to become a Don Juan and get a laid multiple times a week and/or not get screwed over by women. They want a quick fix approach and to get out there and get balls deep. Lot of assumptions there The twist in this is that to achieve this you have to start to not care about women or outcomes. Agree to a certain extent. This is the reality and also the paradox.

Like playing golf; if you know you really gotta land that ball on the green from 150 yards then there's a good chance you won't(outcome dependant). What about taking a penalty? You want to score right? you're not going to die if you don't however But if you aren't too fussed where it lands but still aim in the direction of the green there's a good chance it will land on the green. (outcome independent) Yes but there's a better chance if you're game is right. Practice makes perfect my friend.

I've read a lot of threads on here and a lot of them are titled 'Girl gone cold one me, been dumped, how do I keep her?' etc. These are usually first time posters, hell I was one of them when I first joined.

Now a lot of guys say the solution to this is, 'get over it and spin more plates.' Getting over it I agree with but spinning plates when you have a faulty mindset.. I don't think this is the answer, not yet anyway. Spinning plates before you have dealt with your own self worth issues is it always self worth issues? is like redressing a wound every week to hold off infection, but never seeing it fully heal. Its what asw's do. You're making the assumption that men coming here have self-worth issues. This would be solid advice if it was the NC thread.

The way I see it to is forget about women full stop until you create a life that makes you happy or at least until you see significant improvement in your self worth, and become more independent of women and life's outcomes. After that you won't let a woman, person, situation ever affect you again because you will have the inner tools to handle it. And then by all means you can spin plates as a means of enjoyment but not as a means of keeping an ego intact. Very assumptive

I really think being a don juan, or at least being a healthy minded don juan (alpha male), is not about getting women, it's about becoming the best version of yourself. After that the women will come as bi product. A HUGE MISCONCEPTION But by that point women really will be of little importance to you anyway, just a bonus, something to keep you occupied when you have a spare hour in your fulfilling lifestyle.

In my eyes there's a lot of irony in becoming a don juan, as there is with lots of other worthwhile endeavours in life. The pot of gold you find at the end of the rainbow isn't always the same pot of gold you had in mind when you started out. Either way, its still a nice pot of gold.

Your thoughts?

I get your point and I see where you're coming from. However I don't agree with everything you've written.

Improve your love and love your life and women will come as a bi product etc is something that said here often. However I think it's a slight misconception.

Why? It gives the impression that as soon as your life is excellent and you're not caring about women, then suddenly hordes of women will start showing up at your door. It's simply not the case. How many people have their own house, nice car, good social life are in great shape etc but they are USELESS WITH WOMEN. This advice gives the impression that once your life is in order and fun you'll wake up one day and "here come the bvtches"

no matter how good your life is you still need a skill set in order to obtain poon. Which let's face it....we as men want poon. The difference in not caring is simply knowing you can get poon anywhere, so no one woman is special, therefor why would you care about anyone woman? You can still be outcome independant and still want the poon. You want the poon like you want a nice meal. What if I want steak but my favorite restaurant is closed? Am I going to kill myself? no? I'll just go to another restaurant. Am I dependant on steak? No but I fvcking really enjoy it.

I don't believe anyone needs to "give up women until they improve their self worth etc etc" Why can't you do the two things at the same time??? and how will you know when you're ready to get back in the game? The game is played in the field.


I don't think it's a paradox. It's actually arriving at a FULL CIRCLE. It's the full circle that many don't yet grasp...

 

[zekko]

I really think being a don juan, or at least being a healthy minded don juan (alpha male), is not about getting women,

I don't think the terms "Don Juan" and "alpha male" are interchangeable, exactly. They are describing two different things.

It gives the impression that as soon as your life is excellent and you're not caring about women, then suddenly hordes of women will start showing up at your door. It's simply not the case. How many people have their own house, nice car, good social life are in great shape etc but they are USELESS WITH WOMEN. This advice gives the impression that once your life is in order and fun you'll wake up one day and "here come the bvtches"

Yeah, I think that can work for some guys. It just depends on what their lifestyle and their issues are. If a guy is very social and is always meeting new people (chicks included), and he has his sh!t together, he will likely not have to try too hard to get women. If a guy has some social hang ups or self esteem issues, he may have to do some work. If his sexual market value is low, he may have to do some improvement. Many guys will have to be the aggressor/pursuer in order to get women. It just depends on what his sticking points are, if any.

 

[switch7]

I get your point and I see where you're coming from. However I don't agree with everything you've written.

Improve your love and love your life and women will come as a bi product etc is something that said here often. However I think it's a slight misconception.

Why? It gives the impression that as soon as your life is excellent and you're not caring about women, then suddenly hordes of women will start showing up at your door. It's simply not the case. How many people have their own house, nice car, good social life are in great shape etc but they are USELESS WITH WOMEN. This advice gives the impression that once your life is in order and fun you'll wake up one day and "here come the bvtches"

no matter how good your life is you still need a skill set in order to obtain poon. Which let's face it....we as men want poon. The difference in not caring is simply knowing you can get poon anywhere, so no one woman is special, therefor why would you care about anyone woman? You can still be outcome independant and still want the poon. You want the poon like you want a nice meal. What if I want steak but my favorite restaurant is closed? Am I going to kill myself? no? I'll just go to another restaurant. Am I dependant on steak? No but I fvcking really enjoy it.

I don't believe anyone needs to "give up women until they improve their self worth etc etc" Why can't you do the two things at the same time??? and how will you know when you're ready to get back in the game? The game is played in the field.


I don't think it's a paradox. It's actually arriving at a FULL CIRCLE. It's the full circle that many don't yet grasp...

Thanks for your reply Reykhel (btw I have been enjoying you posts)

in regards to this: "I really think being a don juan, or at least being a healthy minded don juan (alpha male), is not about getting women, it's about becoming the best version of yourself. After that the women will come as bi product. A HUGE MISCONCEPTION But by that point women really will be of little importance to you anyway, just a bonus, something to keep you occupied when you have a spare hour in your fulfilling lifestyle.
"

What I mean is, if you can take control of your life and get to where you want to be outside of getting women; socially, creatively, financially, body and health wise, spiritually, whatever your values as a person are, then I think adding that extra tick to the 'game' box shouldn't be too difficult when you have all the other boxes ticked. You would have already built up a confidence through tackling your previous endeavours ready to tackle 'game'.

In regard to people coming here that don't have self esteem/ self worth issues. I think a lot of people cover this up very well with ego. Some people will be very open with their issue; needy and upset over a woman screwing them over. Others will hide it; the aggressive and 'not give a fvck' type. Both are in a sense desperately trying to piece back together their ego.

The ones who say don't display anger or upset over the outcome of a situation with a woman, or are not clinging on to try and get back a oneitis, but just ask for advice how to better deal with the next lady situation. Those are the ones who have no underlying issues and who are ready to learn 'game' in my opinion.

Like you say there is nothing wrong with building up a game skillset whilst also building other areas of your life but I think a lot of people will solely focus on building this skillset without building other areas of their lives because they still have the mentality that getting a women/women is the answer to all their problems.

 

[switch7]

From what I have read, Don Juan is a mythical character and in reality from what I read about this guy he was probably very insecure and could only hold himself together with his ability to seduce women, which probably involved spinning a lot of plates.

we're not actualy talking about some mythical guy that once was. at least im not. i dont even like the term Don Juan. its pretty corny to me. but when i talk about being a DJ or Alpha, im referring to the right mindset that leads to the ideal course of action. you incorrectly put the focus on acquiring women here. yes this is a seduction forum, but there are no canned routines or specific set of universal behaviors that will attract all the beautiful women of your dreams to you. i dont even like the term self improvement. a famous guy once said "self improvement is masterbation". i prefer self enlightenment. and thats what game has evolved into. a mental awakening. what we now refer to as the red pill. which brings to the point that you are going through that in-between phase. you have unplugged from the matrix. you see the ironies and paradoxes everywhere. youre sensitive to the world around you now. its the reason you started this thread.

To me 'Don Juan' is a label that has multiple interpretations from person to person.

yes. the same as alpha male.

Everyone comes here in the beginning because they want to become a Don Juan and get a laid multiple times a week and/or not get screwed over by women. They want a quick fix approach and to get out there and get balls deep. The twist in this is that to achieve this you have to start to not care about women or outcomes. This is the reality and also the paradox.

seduction is paradoxical, contradictory and ironic in nature. to understand it you need to embrace this.


Now a lot of guys say the solution to this is, 'get over it and spin more plates.' Getting over it I agree with but spinning plates when you have a faulty mindset.. I don't think this is the answer, not yet anyway. Spinning plates before you have dealt with your own self worth issues is like redressing a wound every week to hold off infection, but never seeing it fully heal. Its what asw's do.

The way I see it to is forget about women full stop until you create a life that makes you happy or at least until you see significant improvement in your self worth, and become more independent of women and life's outcomes. After that you won't let a woman, person, situation ever affect you again because you will have the inner tools to handle it. And then by all means you can spin plates as a means of enjoyment but not as a means of keeping an ego intact.

wrong. this is just another paradox in itself. you think "in order to get A i must fix B first". in reality, in order to fix B you MUST do A. there are some things in life that you cannot prepare or study for. the only thing will teach you is getting your feet wet.

I really think being a don juan, or at least being a healthy minded don juan (alpha male), is not about getting women, it's about becoming the best version of yourself. After that the women will come as bi product. But by that point women really will be of little importance to you anyway, just a bonus, something to keep you occupied when you have a spare hour in your fulfilling lifestyle.

said every pimple faced nerd in HS ever. the truth is, women, like everything else requires WORK AND EFFORT. the better you get at it, the easier it might get but it doesnt change this fact. lately i have little desire to actively pursue women unless they make it disgustingly easy. 8 years ago i'd hit the clubs/bars/lounges and everywehre in between hard and put in work to get names, numbers, dates etc. if i said i enjoyed the initial exchange and early stages of picking up women to get the lay id be lying. its boring.

In my eyes there's a lot of irony in becoming a don juan, as there is with lots of other worthwhile endeavours in life. The pot of gold you find at the end of the rainbow isn't always the same pot of gold you had in mind when you started out. Either way, its still a nice pot of gold.

Your thoughts?

like i said, the goal should be enlightenment. any joe schmoe can hit the gym and get ripped get stylish new clothes and learn to be aloof to pique the interest of some stupid girls. your freedom comes when you start to realize thats all for nothing and thats OK. thats when you start to live life on your own terms.

Great post. I appreciate your reply. You are right I feel like I've finally unplugged and I'm starting to see the real truth. And I don't just about women but about everything that has been fed to us by society.