pac/dlh and diaz/katsidis

[6-heads lewis]

Im sorry to anyone who followed me.

Im embarassed by Oscar, and more importantly Im embarassed by myself.

I won't offer any more advice. Good luck to you all.

 

[Gaucho]

6 heads, I can name you 200 boxers who aged overnight, how many can you name me who didn't?

Simply put, DLH was a HIGH probability to win this fight, but he just couldn't get off. It happens to nearly every fighter out there at one point later in their career. DLH has enjoyed a very long and prosperous career and will go down as an all-time legend of the ring. The golden era of boxing is over. Only fight left I am interested in is Pac V Mayweather. Boxing is a dead game, will probably take 20 odd years for it to revive when the next crop of legitimate talents come through.

Your pick was a very fair one. Sports bettng is like any other game, a probability, nothing more. And like you, I thought this was an extremelly high probability win for Oscar. All logic pointed to the fact and I have made some very healthy money on boxing betting.

I am CLOONEY, changed my name as I have nothing left to do with dating advice etc due to the forum going to dust. Not many constructive opinions here (though still a few), more just loud mouthed bitter boys who like to call themselves men.

Hope your doing well.

 

[SuavePlaya]

DLH is trash like I said in the other thread about DLH. How many significant fights he won hmmm like none. Every big bout he had he lost how can anyone consider him a legend lol. The man has a big fan base that doesnt mean he is a legend. 6-heads atleast you admit you made a stupid mistake by picking a trashy oscar against manny. Gaucho on the other hand won't ever admit he is wrong, he argued with me that he is on the same level as floyd mayweather when everyone and their mother knew floyd wasnt even going hard. Gaucho told me on the other thread that forbes was good competition lol. Gaucho you don't know sh1t about boxing now go cry that your mexican hero got ko'd like what happens in most his significant fights.

 

[6-heads lewis]

Thanks Gaucho/Clooney. It's good to hear from you again, I always respected your boxing opinions.

Thanks for the encouragement, it's time for me to take a break from this game. I put so much time and money into it, and it all went to sh!t. Based on the evidence available, any competent boxing analyst would come to the same conclusion.... well I backed that conclusion with a huge sum, and I lost it all.

I'm glad to hear from you, I hope you stick with boxing/stock market, or whatever has brought you success. This loss has made me re-evaluate my direction in life, and how much control I really have over my fate.

If Manny/Floyd happens, Im big on Floyd. Or at least that's what I say now, I may have to re-evaluate my gambling career. But Floyd wins that one, whether or not I have money on it.

Good luck friend.

 

[6-heads lewis]

Clooney, ignnore suvaeplaya. You're a good predictor and I respect your picks. Oscar was only KOd once in his career, by a 160lber, and a bodyshot.

This was extremely unpredictable. Rationally, I shouldn't be so embarrassed as this was completely unpredictable, like Forrest-Mora 1, but Im drunk and a sad, so Im harder on myself than I should be.

We should talk through PM as more boxing comes up. I don't care much for the general forum dwellers anyway. I already have a big chunk on Torres over Holt +175 next week, after that it's time to take a break. Maybe spend some time with my estranged family.

 

[Gaucho]

Yeh, I don't care much for guys like SuavePlaya so I don't even waste my time.

It's all probabilities, so betting all on one fight is not smart. Nobody gets 100% of picks right, all you want to do is find an edge over the odds, no matter how small, if you have one, in the long-term, you can win big, but trying to make it in a few bets takes away the law of probabilities and large numbers and the probability is that you will blow up.

I bet on boxing for fun. But the markets are where all my success comes. PM me next time before a fight if you want to talk. Or I will send you my email, this way, I don't have to deal with a bunch of idiots throwing out their junk towards anyone who will listen. I don't follow boxing as closely anymore though, all my time goes towards the financial markets.

 

[SuavePlaya]

LOL 6head, I'm glad you lost your bet because a blind man could have made a better bet than you have. Please gonzo you know i'am right I mean if you don't think i'am right lets just dig up the old oscar thread and see how many times you responded. The reason you should ignore me because you really have nothing to say I'am right once again. This was a great night for boxing to see oscar go. I take that back I would love to see oscar fight fobes again because like you said fobes is such a great fighter LOL.

 

[Gaucho]

Encase you haven't noticed Suave, your junk is being ignored.

If it wasn't so easy to see through your junk analysis, then some may give your picks some credence. Follow the boxing world with a passion and maybe some will listen, until then, you are like the other 1000000000000 big mouth boxing 'fans' I have come accross in my time in the sport.

Funny how such a sweet science gets so many looser trashpots following it.

Listening to boxing opinions on an internet forum reminds me of listening to the guys down the local pub giving tips and opinions to their mates.

I'm sure I will get a reply, as you are so desperate to be heard. :rock:

 

[War Against Betaism]

I was very disappointed in this fight, it didn't look like Oscar put up a fight at all, I guess Pac is just way too quick but I seriously thought this was going to be an evenly matched fight for 12 rounds. At least Pac didn't disappoint in the second reason on why people love watching him, his post fight interviews.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

DelaHoya dogged it. He saw he didn't have enough, yet didn't try to fight back, even if it meant he would go out on his back. He avoided that humiliation, and took the easy way out, the "Compasionate corner stops the fight" approach.

HBO didn't even mention JM Marquez as the only fighter who give Pac trouble, and who has the style to beat him, or at least make him look bad or like he's been in a fight, every time they would fight. Instead they'll hype up Hatton, and other "has beens" and "never were's" as great opponents for Pac.

Many propers to Manny Pac, he took care of business, and did what he was supposed to do to a fighter who did what DLH did. DLH didn't just "age overnight", he's been slowing down and really handpicking his opponents, forever, specially since getting stopped by Hopkins. Mayweather could have stopped him, except that Floyd would, does, and did anything to avoid any kind of risk, so he slapped him and danced around him, instead of doing what Pac did to close the show.

 

[Gaucho]

Yep, all those hand picked opponents! :crazy:

DLH has one of the best resumes in boxing (regardless of who you think he beat). The fight against BHOP was a JOKE! He had no business as a middleweight, he couldn't even penetrate the defence of Sturm, how was he ever going to take out BHOP?

After that, he especially hand picked opponents, Mayweather is a sure fire win and Mayorga is no danger to anyone, Forrest and Mosley prooved that!

Many many fighters age overnight, DLH had NOTHING left in him. He just couldn't get off. Since when has he stood in a corner, not even using his legs, let alone fighting back? Ageing overnight doesn't mean you are in your prime, then past it instantly. Of course he hasn't been prime for many years now, but that was the end of the road. That was so reminiscent of Jones V Tarver 1, except Jones didn't get beat up nearly as bad cause Tarver had no ability to let fire either.

Agree on one thing though, Marquez gave Pac trouble, I had JMM winning the first one rather comfortably.

Oh and DLH definately dogged it, risking your brain when your body just stops working anymore, is as dumber thing as you could ever do! Dogging it to me, would be fighting again and doing the same, when it's obvious his long career is over.

 

[DJKid]

I knew this was going to be a tough fight to pick... when I thought about it objectively a day before the fight I would have picked Pac because of his youth, hand speed, and frankly the fight means more to him..... however being a big DLH fan right before the fight I had the feeling Oscar was going to connect on a big left hook and put Manny to sleep. I felt that way until about the mid rounds when Oscar was just getting battered. I never imagined it would be a massacre like it was. It really surprised me that Oscar wasn't even punching back and I was astonished to see him against the ropes taking that exuberant punishment.....

He never said no mas though and I think he showed a lot of heart staying on his feet and taking his lumps.....

Gaucho I agree that Oscar has a great career. What he did as an ambassador for the sport is really what's unprecedented though....

I'd love to see Manny and Floyd go at it..... This is another one which I'm ambivalent on.... Manny may be just as fast which will make things interesting. However Floyd has an impregnable defense.... well unless its perhaps tested by the 1 P4P figher

 

[Gaucho]

Yeh, Pac V Mayweather would be interesting. I hope it happens. Hatton is a good fighter, has some decent names on his resume, but not a great fighter by any means.

Pac would make things awkward with his style and speed. I think he may give Mayweather a bit of a worry. But I wouldn't like to see Pacs face if Mayweather times him with one of those rights on the chin.

Either way, Pac V Mayweather or Pac moving down and taking on JMM in a 3rd fight are the only real ones I am interested in.

Boxing is terrible at the moment IMHO.

 

[6-heads lewis]

First, thanks for the invite Gaucho, I'll PM you as big fights come up, then we'll talk in emails. Up until this Oscar bout, I was on a ridiculous hot streak, when it lasts too long you forget you can still lose on any given night. This was the first losing weekend I've had in about 2 months, and it wiped out about 4 months worth of profits. lol. I know a sharp who put nearly his life savings on Oscar, now he's up the creek. You're absolutely right about money management Gaucho, this was my downfall.

After sobering up and recovering from the shock, I don't regret the bet at all. I regret the size of the bet, but this shouldn't have been a close contest. People talk about speed vs size, athleticism, etc., but if the same DLH that came to fight Mayweather showed up against Pac, it would have been a blowout win. I've analyzed this bout on many forums forums so there's no sense it doing it again, the bottom line is Manny struggled against a counter-puncher with a timely jab at 130lbs. In fact, I had him losing both Marquez fights, and comfortably to boot. Oscar is a superior technician to Pac, he SHOULD HAVE been a strong-chinned, tall tactician with a long jab and great counter left hook, with a 12lb size advantage. This SHOULD HAVE been a blowout win for Oscar, only those absolutely closest to him knew that he was dehydrated/over-trained/shot. There's no way I could have known that. I wish I knew and had consulted a nutritionist, they probably could have explained Oscar's weight situation, and how it would affect him. I hear reports that he lost the weight far too early in camp, so his body couldn't handle putting it back on so quickly. Compare that to a Margarito who makes weight the day of the fight, then comfortably rehydrates 14lbs and has 12 rounds of energy in him.

Steve Forbes was a defensively slick counter-puncher with an iron chin, the kind Oscar gets frustrated with. If that Oscar showed up to fight Pac, he'd still win convincingly.

I'm letting myself off the hook for the bet, not the size of the bet. I fvcked that up hard. When I heard Oscar was 147, and I saw him walking to the ring sucking on ice and looking dead serious, I should have known something was wrong. How foolish of me.

Oscar was flat the way Forrest was flat against Mora, and the way Williams was flat against Quintana. It happens. Forrest proved he isn't shot in the rematch, it was just a bad night. I still think DLH is a bad stylistic match-up for Pac, and if he came to the ring in the high 150's like he should have, he'd have a big size and power advantage, and wouldn't have been bullied to that extent.

I almost don't want to see Pac-JMM 3. If it happened, it would be at a higher weight than Marquez is comfortable with, he can still make 130. Pac would probably force 140lbs. It would be tragic to see JMM lose at 140lbs then be written off as another Mexican fighter Pac dominated, even though JMM won the first 2 fights. History would show Pac as being superior, when if you watch the two bouts, he's anything but. JMM's entire career has been somewhat tragic and disappointing, I'd hate to see him going out on a losing note.

I've heard rumours of Pac-Floyd. If Floyd takes this, it's not a money grab, his work ethic is almost unmatched in the sport. If it's at 147 lbs I have a late KO win for Mayweather. If it's at 140 it's more debatable. Pac showed signs of improved defense and head movement against DLH, but fighting an immobile shell is different from a P4P great in his prime. It would be close through 6, maybe even Pac ahead, but Mayweather would figure him out and pull away like he always does. .

 

[6-heads lewis]

Yep, all those hand picked opponents! :crazy:

DLH has one of the best resumes in boxing (regardless of who you think he beat). The fight against BHOP was a JOKE! He had no business as a middleweight, he couldn't even penetrate the defence of Sturm, how was he ever going to take out BHOP?

After that, he especially hand picked opponents, Mayweather is a sure fire win and Mayorga is no danger to anyone, Forrest and Mosley prooved that!

Many many fighters age overnight, DLH had NOTHING left in him. He just couldn't get off. Since when has he stood in a corner, not even using his legs, let alone fighting back? Ageing overnight doesn't mean you are in your prime, then past it instantly. Of course he hasn't been prime for many years now, but that was the end of the road. That was so reminiscent of Jones V Tarver 1, except Jones didn't get beat up nearly as bad cause Tarver had no ability to let fire either.

Agree on one thing though, Marquez gave Pac trouble, I had JMM winning the first one rather comfortably.

Oh and DLH definately dogged it, risking your brain when your body just stops working anymore, is as dumber thing as you could ever do! Dogging it to me, would be fighting again and doing the same, when it's obvious his long career is over.

While I don't like Oscar, I agree with you about his resume. The best arguments against him are: 1) Feasting on Trinidad leftovers, or fighters after they have proved beatable 2) Not giving rematches to Whitaker and Quartey 3) Ducking Vernon Forrest. All of them have merit. But still, Oscar has showed a tremendous chin and has fought top-level competition.

In Jones-Tarver 1, Tarver showed him too much respect. Jones won in the centre of the ring, Tarver on the ropes. Jones was weak and exhausted, he could have been physically pushed to the ropes more often. Tarver was afraid. Manny saw that Oscar had nothing and went in for the kill with reckless abandon, as he should have.

Oscar has tarnished his legacy, and has let down the boxing community. If he was in this bad condition, he could have pulled out of the fight. He'd lose a lot of money and piss off a lot of people, but he'd be back to fight another day in better condition, and he'd still have his pride and legacy. A healthy DLH beats Pac easily imo.

Vitali Klitschko pulled out against Rahman, and was mocked for it and lost a payday. But he preferred to keep his standing in the boxing community than show up injured for a payday, so he healed and came back. Oscar went into the fight a dead man walking, and took a beating in exchange for a paycheck. He put up NO resistance. I'd have more sympathy for him if he at least went for a desparate KO for a few rounds, rather than doing literally nothing but waiting for the corner to stop it.

 

[SuavePlaya]

sixheads and gaucho just admit it you got a fetish for DLH. Sixheads you knew oscar was a dead man walking with his injuries or w/e you are trying to say, but yet you still made the bet on him that makes alot of sense and your credibility on giving boxing advice. If you think a healthy DLH can take on manny you need your head examined. Gaucho you think oscar is a legend for fighting Mayorga LOL yeah he beat a guy that smokes and eats fried chicken during training.

 

[Gaucho]

Man, the thing is, I find in boxing, you have the most BIAS fans EVER! They criticize the hell out of particular fighters and suck on the nuts of others!

It's why I can't stand talking about boxing anymore. Only a couple of guys I can even take serious who tell it how it is regardless of who they like watching.

As for Tarver, he just didn't have the punch output in him to take advantage of an idle Jones. Any other decent fighter, like even Johnson, did what should have been done to a man who was over the hill and couldn't get off. Yep, that's right, Jones aged over night.

Agree on Pac V JMM, would be at a higher weight and favour Pac IMO.

Yeh, if you want to bet, you have to apply money management or you are simply a gambler, not a speculator.

A lot of guys say BHOP avoided all challengers above middle like Toney and Jones after he moved on and beat up on smaller men and bums, Marciano beat an old Joe Louis and blow up light-heavies, Leonard avoided Pryor and took Hagler on as a shell, not to mention, Duran in the rematch was fat and a bum, Pac beat up old great Mexicans who were already past it, hang on, wait for it, Robinson avoided Charley Burley!!!!!!! Boxing is so subjective and you can pick holes in any single fighter if you want!

Looks like that kid is back and trying to stir trouble with his in-depth knowledge Yawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[DJKid]

First, thanks for the invite Gaucho, I'll PM you as big fights come up, then we'll talk in emails. Up until this Oscar bout, I was on a ridiculous hot streak, when it lasts too long you forget you can still lose on any given night. This was the first losing weekend I've had in about 2 months, and it wiped out about 4 months worth of profits. lol. I know a sharp who put nearly his life savings on Oscar, now he's up the creek. You're absolutely right about money management Gaucho, this was my downfall.

After sobering up and recovering from the shock, I don't regret the bet at all. I regret the size of the bet, but this shouldn't have been a close contest. People talk about speed vs size, athleticism, etc., but if the same DLH that came to fight Mayweather showed up against Pac, it would have been a blowout win. I've analyzed this bout on many forums forums so there's no sense it doing it again, the bottom line is Manny struggled against a counter-puncher with a timely jab at 130lbs. In fact, I had him losing both Marquez fights, and comfortably to boot. Oscar is a superior technician to Pac, he SHOULD HAVE been a strong-chinned, tall tactician with a long jab and great counter left hook, with a 12lb size advantage. This SHOULD HAVE been a blowout win for Oscar, only those absolutely closest to him knew that he was dehydrated/over-trained/shot. There's no way I could have known that. I wish I knew and had consulted a nutritionist, they probably could have explained Oscar's weight situation, and how it would affect him. I hear reports that he lost the weight far too early in camp, so his body couldn't handle putting it back on so quickly. Compare that to a Margarito who makes weight the day of the fight, then comfortably rehydrates 14lbs and has 12 rounds of energy in him.

Steve Forbes was a defensively slick counter-puncher with an iron chin, the kind Oscar gets frustrated with. If that Oscar showed up to fight Pac, he'd still win convincingly.

I'm letting myself off the hook for the bet, not the size of the bet. I fvcked that up hard. When I heard Oscar was 147, and I saw him walking to the ring sucking on ice and looking dead serious, I should have known something was wrong. How foolish of me.

Oscar was flat the way Forrest was flat against Mora, and the way Williams was flat against Quintana. It happens. Forrest proved he isn't shot in the rematch, it was just a bad night. I still think DLH is a bad stylistic match-up for Pac, and if he came to the ring in the high 150's like he should have, he'd have a big size and power advantage, and wouldn't have been bullied to that extent.

I almost don't want to see Pac-JMM 3. If it happened, it would be at a higher weight than Marquez is comfortable with, he can still make 130. Pac would probably force 140lbs. It would be tragic to see JMM lose at 140lbs then be written off as another Mexican fighter Pac dominated, even though JMM won the first 2 fights. History would show Pac as being superior, when if you watch the two bouts, he's anything but. JMM's entire career has been somewhat tragic and disappointing, I'd hate to see him going out on a losing note.

I've heard rumours of Pac-Floyd. If Floyd takes this, it's not a money grab, his work ethic is almost unmatched in the sport. If it's at 147 lbs I have a late KO win for Mayweather. If it's at 140 it's more debatable. Pac showed signs of improved defense and head movement against DLH, but fighting an immobile shell is different from a P4P great in his prime. It would be close through 6, maybe even Pac ahead, but Mayweather would figure him out and pull away like he always does. .

I think the Pac vs JMM fights were scored pretty accurate. JMM needs to stop getting knocked down if he wants to win a decision. The only person IMHO to beat Pac while he's been in his prime is Erik Morales in their first fight. That also was a close contest but i had El Terible edging him out. Of course Pac came back and crushed him the next two times.

Regarding Pac and Mayweather... this one would be interesting... One thing for sure is that I would not have the moxi to bet Floyd by KO against any elite fighter.... You know he plays safety first even if he is a step above his opponent.

My first thoughts on this one is that Floyd would win based on his superior defense.... however Pac's speed and tenacity could prove otherwise. Unlike Zab Judah Pac is relentless and mentally strong along with his speed being on par.


You want a good bet, bet Antonio Margarito to KO Shane Mosley

 

[DJKid]

Man, the thing is, I find in boxing, you have the most BIAS fans EVER! They criticize the hell out of particular fighters and suck on the nuts of others!

It's why I can't stand talking about boxing anymore. Only a couple of guys I can even take serious who tell it how it is regardless of who they like watching.

As for Tarver, he just didn't have the punch output in him to take advantage of an idle Jones. Any other decent fighter, like even Johnson, did what should have been done to a man who was over the hill and couldn't get off. Yep, that's right, Jones aged over night.

Agree on Pac V JMM, would be at a higher weight and favour Pac IMO.

Yeh, if you want to bet, you have to apply money management or you are simply a gambler, not a speculator.

A lot of guys say BHOP avoided all challengers above middle like Toney and Jones after he moved on and beat up on smaller men and bums, Marciano beat an old Joe Louis and blow up light-heavies, Leonard avoided Pryor and took Hagler on as a shell, not to mention, Duran in the rematch was fat and a bum, Pac beat up old great Mexicans who were already past it, hang on, wait for it, Robinson avoided Charley Burley!!!!!!! Boxing is so subjective and you can pick holes in any single fighter if you want!

Looks like that kid is back and trying to stir trouble with his in-depth knowledge Yawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

I agree. Gaucho don't give up on boxing yet though.... there's a lot of talent out there that could make for some great fights down the road. Some are on their way out but I'll name them anyway for short term interest at the very least.

Antonio Margarito (I think you could literally hit this guy with a steel pipe and he'd take it)
Miguel Cotto
Joe Calzaghe (might have 1 more fight left)
Chad Dawson (awseome fighter)
Kelly Pavlik (tough kid... even though he got schooled by BHOP could make him better)
Arthur Abraham (European middleweight king)
Manny Pacquiao (the 1 P4P fighter in his prime!)
Floyd Mayweather (you know he's at least coming back for 1 more fight)
Chris Arreola (finally a good potential American heavyweight)
Alexander Povetkin (could be the heir to the Klitchkos for heavyweight supremacy)
Andre Berto (just awseome)

and many more especially in the lighter weights....

Don't give up on boxing yet!

 

[Gaucho]

Yeh, there are definately a few good fighters out there. Berto is one very interesting guy. Really he, Williams, Cotto and Margarito that are the guys to watch at welter at the moment. Wish Williams would come down and fight some of them instead of moving up.

Mosley V Margarito will really tell how much Mosley has left. I thought he and Cotto were pretty evenly matched, but he looks to be ageing for sure. I would expect Margarito to win.

But wouldn't put Calzaghe on that list, he doesn't have many fights left in him. Saw most of his career, I always thought he was a great great fighter and it's why I picked him over Kessler and BHOP. Kessler should dominate the super-middles for some time, hopefully he and Dawson can do a deal and see who is the best of the future.

Agree on Mayweather, he may take it easy and be careful against Pac, but a timed lead right may do some serious damage. Also depends in he brings his pillows into the ring. His gloves are rediculous sometimes.

As for Manny V JMM, in the first fight, other than the first round, I had JMM dominating most of the fight and thought he won it easily. But Pac definatley improved since then and added some more dimensions to his game. Vast improvement from him in recent years.