Opinion on Bums

[Desdinova]

With all the fvcking programs and job openings in my city, there shouldn't be any homeless.

I've seen and heard so many goddam tricks and stories to get people to part with their money, and it's sick. A co-worker of mine ended up giving a guy $20 because his car broke down. Then he came back and needed a $10 deposit for a gas can. He then walked his ass over to the beer vendor across the street. When I told her she got scammed, she was pissed off.

There's a guy I see on my way home from work every day. He told my woman that he has a terminal health condition and only has like 6 months to live. That was 2 fvcking years ago when he was skinny. He's gained a 5hitload of weight since then. Terminal my ass.

I've heard and seen so many goddam stories, and it makes me sick. I've busted my ass to get to where I am. These people really don't have any excuse. If I'm going to help people in need, I'll donate to a food drive or to some charity (which I have done many times). Those programs are in place to help people who are having trouble in life, and at a couple points in my life, I've turned to them for help. There's absolutely no reason why others can't get help from one of these programs instead of begging on the streets.

 

[speakeasy]

Same with telemarketers. Why are their telemarketers? Because the same people that bit*h about them buy stuff from them, or donate money to them via the telephone. Same with door-to-door salesmen.

Or spammers!

 

[Alle_Gory]

Or spammers!

Or Starbucks.

 

[STR8UP]

Why don't get you pissed about the root of the problem and why they became homeless?

And what, may I ask, would be the "root" of the problem?

 

[theunflushables]

And what, may I ask, would be the "root" of the problem?

My unsolicited opinion, the root of the problem lies within the system. Why is it high schools (like I attended) have a 99% graduation rate compared to the schools in urban areas (where I live now) that have a 50% graduation rate? Why is it a white family can get a loan for a house yet a black family can not? Why is it one white, blonde, attractive, b1tch disappears and the media is in a frenzy but people of every color disappear every day but the media remains silent? Why is it that hard drug use is more prevalant in urban areas than suburban areas?

The answer to all these questions isn't neccisarly racism (even though it still exists), but classism. If you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, the world is yours. Do you think those born with that opportunity are going to let those less fortunate partake in the experience? Not at all! Why share their fortunes?

The whole system is set up to allow those lucky few and their future generations to prosper off the rest of the population who study in their school systems and then take jobs at their factories because there is no other choice. The unlucky, making minnimum wage at their job have to feed their families crap like McDonald's because it is cheaper than a healthy dinner. After stuffing their gobs full of fatty food, they are subjecated to watching sh1t television programming to keep their minds distracted from how much they are being fvcked by the self-replicating system that is keeping them down!

With that, I must say, wine makes me smarter!

 

[speakeasy]

My unsolicited opinion, the root of the problem lies within the system. Why is it high schools (like I attended) have a 99% graduation rate compared to the schools in urban areas (where I live now) that have a 50% graduation rate? Why is it a white family can get a loan for a house yet a black family can not? Why is it one white, blonde, attractive, b1tch disappears and the media is in a frenzy but people of every color disappear every day but the media remains silent? Why is it that hard drug use is more prevalant in urban areas than suburban areas?

The answer to all these questions isn't neccisarly racism (even though it still exists), but classism. If you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, the world is yours. Do you think those born with that opportunity are going to let those less fortunate partake in the experience? Not at all! Why share their fortunes?

The whole system is set up to allow those lucky few and their future generations to prosper off the rest of the population who study in their school systems and then take jobs at their factories because there is no other choice. The unlucky, making minnimum wage at their job have to feed their families crap like McDonald's because it is cheaper than a healthy dinner. After stuffing their gobs full of fatty food, they are subjecated to watching sh1t television programming to keep their minds distracted from how much they are being fvcked by the self-replicating system that is keeping them down!

With that, I must say, wine makes me smarter!

There are people who got big inheritances and what not and blew it on cars, cocaine, partying and women. Hell, look at Micheal Jackson, he was wealthy enough to buy the Beatles catalog. Now the guy is so broke he lost his own house. People make bad decisions and they go into downward spirals. Not every bum on the street is a victim of society.

 

[theunflushables]

There are people who got big inheritances and what not and blew it on cars, cocaine, partying and women. Hell, look at Micheal Jackson, he was wealthy enough to buy the Beatles catalog. Now the guy is so broke he lost his own house. People make bad decisions and they go into downward spirals. Not every bum on the street is a victim of society.

Agreed, there is the crack/meth/herion addict who finds himself out on the street because of the decision they made to try a certain drug out. However, I do feel not enough is spent on general education for inner city youth and police enforcement is a joke. My brother is a teacher and he had to student teach in an intercity school where the teachers are not provided the materials to teach the students and they have no support from the administration. He has also teached at suburban schools where if a kid looks at you funny they are expelled from the school district (bit of an exagerration but, the point gets across)

However, a lot of these people who need help are let down by the system. For example: Here in Michigan, the state stopped funding mental hospitals back in the late 80's to early 90's. That means those who had mental issues, but did not have the means to fund their treatment were shown the door. Most of these people did not have family who could afford to take care of their hospitalization or afford to take them in to their homes. Now these mentally ill people wander the streets.

Here in Grand Rapids, we have one guy named Doc, he was an actual doctor until his wife and son were murdered and he went bat sh1t mental and ended up on the streets. Recently he had a heart attack and was treated at a local hospital but again he was released out to the streets.

This winter we also had a homeless man freeze to death because he was on the sex offender list. He comitted his crime 20 years ago, served 11 years in prison and was released on to the streets. When it got really cold this winter he was turned away from the shelters because of his past. Yes, what he did 20 years ago is horrendous, but he did not deserve to freeze to death in below zero temperatures hudled up next to a van for his only shelter.

There was also a man found frozen to death in an elevator shaft in Detroit. I'm not sure of the circumstances of his death, but no human being should be treated like that regardless of what they did.

 

[STR8UP]

The answer to all these questions isn't neccisarly racism (even though it still exists), but classism. If you're born with a silver spoon in your mouth, the world is yours. Do you think those born with that opportunity are going to let those less fortunate partake in the experience? Not at all! Why share their fortunes?

The whole system is set up to allow those lucky few and their future generations to prosper off the rest of the population who study in their school systems and then take jobs at their factories because there is no other choice. The [/b]unlucky[/b], making minnimum wage at their job have to feed their families crap like McDonald's because it is cheaper than a healthy dinner. After stuffing their gobs full of fatty food, they are subjecated to watching sh1t television programming to keep their minds distracted from how much they are being fvcked by the self-replicating system that is keeping them down!

With that, I must say, wine makes me smarter!

Are you KIDDING me?

You live in AMERICA in 2009 dude....get a clue. Your only excuse in this day and age is MENTAL INCAPACITY.

The system rewards the "lucky" huh? Actually, the system taxes the middle class harshly to support a few people who are temporarily down on their luck, and a whole sh!tload of freeloaders who take advantage of the system.

Some of the richest people in the world started out with nothing. I personally had to endure the humiliation of "free lunch tickets" in school. I went with my mom to pick up food stamps and government cheese a couple of times.

My family went through some hard times due in part to a big business account of my father's going bankrupt which sunk my family for awhile. Didn't stop my parents from finding a way to send my mom to nursing school, and it sure as hell didn't stop me from starting multiple businesses, owning real estate, living in the best part of town, and **GASP** even experiencing some trying times myself.

So the whole "downtrodden masses" argument is bullsh!t. An excuse.

And as for all of that racial crap.....we now have a president of african decent, and it just so happens that the highest paid person I now who works for someone else (a commissioned sales rep which means he EARNS every penny) is a black guy who grew up in the streets of Philly.

Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has them, and they all STINK.

 

[STR8UP]

First of all, you can't fix stupid. Fortunately for a lot of people they aren't actually stupid, they are simply lazy, and the system DOES reward laziness to an extent.

And for the unfortunate people who actually ARE mentally ill, well, i kinda feel for you, but it's not really my problem. In days past the people who were unable or unwilling to contribute to society were left to fend for themselves. The idea of social services is a good one so long as it is only to TEMPORARILY help those who otherwise have no other options (you pay in for awhile and take out if it is absolutely needed) but our liberal government thinks these "entitlements" should continue as long as a person is feeling "unlucky".

 

[theunflushables]

Are you KIDDING me?

You live in AMERICA in 2009 dude....get a clue. Your only excuse in this day and age is MENTAL INCAPACITY.

The system rewards the "lucky" huh? Actually, the system taxes the middle class harshly to support a few people who are temporarily down on their luck, and a whole sh!tload of freeloaders who take advantage of the system.

Some of the richest people in the world started out with nothing. I personally had to endure the humiliation of "free lunch tickets" in school. I went with my mom to pick up food stamps and government cheese a couple of times.

My family went through some hard times due in part to a big business account of my father's going bankrupt which sunk my family for awhile. Didn't stop my parents from finding a way to send my mom to nursing school, and it sure as hell didn't stop me from starting multiple businesses, owning real estate, living in the best part of town, and **GASP** even experiencing some trying times myself.

So the whole "downtrodden masses" argument is bullsh!t. An excuse.

And as for all of that racial crap.....we now have a president of african decent, and it just so happens that the highest paid person I now who works for someone else (a commissioned sales rep) is a black guy who grew up in the streets of Philly.

Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has them, and they all STINK.

This is the whole Horatio Alger Jr. myth that anybody with the willpower can make something of themselves. The truth is for every person who can claw themselves out of dire straits, there are thousands who can not. You may be part of the fortunate few who live a good life, but you're an exception. There are honest hard working people out there who are very close to losing it all. I work for a repossesion company. Every day I see people lose their cars and their homes becuase these corporations that they worked for decided to move their company to a country where they could pay their workers a dollar a day. Rarely do I see people not pay their car notes because they just don't want to. But I shut up and do my job because I don't want to join them when their house gets foreclosed.

Be grateful that you and your family made it through the hard times, because there are so many families that did not.

Also, I do not blame racism, as I see people from all races suffering. Classism is the cause.

 

[SuavePlaya]

Be grateful that you and your family made it through the hard times, because there are so many families that did not.

I agree with this statement.

I'll get you the records and what not. But listen to me, son. Don't disappoint me on this or some other guy will be putting their fat **** up little Miss Freud's ass. - Frank Costello

 

[Maxtro]

Here's how you fix the homeless problem

If they are so whacked out by mental illness, or addiction and they can't take care of themselves, why are they still living?

 

[Colossus]

Interesting thread.

I live in a major city as well, and it has soured me a bit on the homeless. Know why? Because I see the same bums day in and day out on my way to and from work asking for money. They have the same lines, the same canes, stand in the same crowded places where they hold out a cup and ask for spare change. One guy even has a cell phone!!! I'm not heartless, but when I see the same bums every freaking day asking me for money, I just ignore them.

Occaisionally I do give money. A lot of them are mentally ill, and sometimes I just feel compassion. But I rarely do this. 90% of them are career bums and will use it for booze and be back the next day getting free health care at the hospital. As long as they are getting money they will keep hanging around.

 

[STR8UP]

This is the whole Horatio Alger Jr. myth that anybody with the willpower can make something of themselves. The truth is for every person who can claw themselves out of dire straits, there are thousands who can not. You may be part of the fortunate few who live a good life, but you're an exception. There are honest hard working people out there who are very close to losing it all. I work for a repossesion company. Every day I see people lose their cars and their homes becuase these corporations that they worked for decided to move their company to a country where they could pay their workers a dollar a day.

I put in bold the parts which cry of victimhood and unaccountability.

Every guy on here b!tches about how women are perpetual victims and do not hold themselves accountable for their actions, yet we speak of people in general whose financial situation is grim as if they are simply "victims".

Bad sh!t happens to EVERYONE homes....myself included. It's how we prepare for and deal with bad times that determines, NOT the fact that we lost our job and instead of saving for a rainy day we went out and ran up the credit cards on a new plasma and Wii with a bunch of games.

Rarely do I see people not pay their car notes because they just don't want to. But I shut up and do my job because I don't want to join them when their house gets foreclosed.

This statement speaks volumes. first of all, I never said anything about people not wanting to pay. I'm sure they would be happy to pay to fuel an unsustainable lifestyle if someone else handed them the money, they are simply unwilling to do what it takes to maintain said lifestyle.

Why do you think the world is in the mess it is in right now? Because the evil banks were greedy and loaned money to poor, unwitting VICTIMS? No, it is because the world of the past few decades got used to living a debt ridden consumerist lifestyle of "buy now pay later" that finally imploded on itself.

The second thing this paragraph says to me is that yo are defending these mentally competent folks in one breath, and in the other breath you outlined the solution that YOU have found and that OTHERS could folllow to get themselves out of their mess, and that is to "shut up and do my job because I don't want to join them when their house gets foreclosed."

I understand that people can lose their jobs. It happens, so you should be prepared. Whose fault is it that you didn't spend the money you were making wisely? Whose fault is it that you chose to pop out six kids?

I even understand that it is possible to suffer a health crisis which can send you into a total financial meltdown. Actually, my business partner broke his neck in a car accident a little while back. It forced me to take on double my work load, since he was basically incapacitated for six months.

Had he not been prepared for such an event he might have been devastated. Had he been rendered paralyzed it would have made it a lot harder for him to recover, but he would have no doubt made it happen.

Be grateful that you and your family made it through the hard times, because there are so many families that did not.

Words like "unfortunate" are insulting to people who make their own fortune. Unfortunate is being the victim of a traumatic accident, not being an able minded and able bodied person who is poor.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Bad sh!t happens to EVERYONE homes....myself included. It's how we prepare for and deal with bad times that determines, NOT the fact that we lost our job and instead of saving for a rainy day we went out and ran up the credit cards on a new plasma and Wii with a bunch of games.

That's true in alot of cases. But what if you fall TOO much. Let's say you lose your job, your car, your house, your woman leaves you (obviously) and you have no family. You're going to be on the streets until you figure it out.

Why do you think the world is in the mess it is in right now? Because the evil banks were greedy and loaned money to poor, unwitting VICTIMS? No, it is because the world of the past few decades got used to living a debt ridden consumerist lifestyle of "buy now pay later" that finally imploded on itself.

It's not just that. Everyone is to blame, including the banks. They PROMOTED this type of spending because they made lots of money off the interest. Obviously the people taking these kinds of deals with no chance of paying back are morons, but so is the bank for dealing with them.

 

[theunflushables]

I put in bold the parts which cry of victimhood and unaccountability.

Every guy on here b!tches about how women are perpetual victims and do not hold themselves accountable for their actions, yet we speak of people in general whose financial situation is grim as if they are simply "victims".

Bad sh!t happens to EVERYONE homes....myself included. It's how we prepare for and deal with bad times that determines, NOT the fact that we lost our job and instead of saving for a rainy day we went out and ran up the credit cards on a new plasma and Wii with a bunch of games.



This statement speaks volumes. first of all, I never said anything about people not wanting to pay. I'm sure they would be happy to pay to fuel an unsustainable lifestyle if someone else handed them the money, they are simply unwilling to do what it takes to maintain said lifestyle.

Why do you think the world is in the mess it is in right now? Because the evil banks were greedy and loaned money to poor, unwitting VICTIMS? No, it is because the world of the past few decades got used to living a debt ridden consumerist lifestyle of "buy now pay later" that finally imploded on itself.

The second thing this paragraph says to me is that yo are defending these mentally competent folks in one breath, and in the other breath you outlined the solution that YOU have found and that OTHERS could folllow to get themselves out of their mess, and that is to "shut up and do my job because I don't want to join them when their house gets foreclosed."

I understand that people can lose their jobs. It happens, so you should be prepared. Whose fault is it that you didn't spend the money you were making wisely? Whose fault is it that you chose to pop out six kids?

I even understand that it is possible to suffer a health crisis which can send you into a total financial meltdown. Actually, my business partner broke his neck in a car accident a little while back. It forced me to take on double my work load, since he was basically incapacitated for six months.

Had he not been prepared for such an event he might have been devastated. Had he been rendered paralyzed it would have made it a lot harder for him to recover, but he would have no doubt made it happen.



Words like "unfortunate" are insulting to people who make their own fortune. Unfortunate is being the victim of a traumatic accident, not being an able minded and able bodied person who is poor.

I do agree with you that materialistic greed does play a large part in our current economic crisis, but what about those who can't even afford to be greedy?

I will use myself as an example. I work a full time job that pays pretty poorly for the business I'm in. With rent and utility bills figured in I am left with very little for my modest living expenses. I use that mostly for food and gas. Maybe once a month I will go to a bar and spend 20 dollars that night. Other than that I don't really spend my money on things I don't need. My most recent high end purchase was 30 dollars for a pair of headphones and even that made me feel guilty. I have been putting money aside, but at such small intervals, that if I lost my job, once my checking account was depleted, my savings would be cleaned out within a week.

So, how is it that I am supposed to save up money "just in case" if I am barely getting by right now?

Now, think about those people who grew up in the intercity and attended substandard schools. Here they are now, flipping hamburgers at McDonald's at 8 dollars an hour (or some other ridiculously low amount) because they were not given the same educational opportunities as their counterparts in the suburbs. They might not have a dime saved up, what happens when they lose their job?

The harsh truth is, there are certain things that are beyond ones control. If we could control everything in our lives we'd all be sleeping with a different supermodel each night. If you are dealt bad cards in life it is extremely hard to get a better hand. Those who are able to do it go on to tout the wonders of capitalism, entrepeneurship and free trade. Those who do not claw themselves out become slave to their bourgeoisie masters, earning substandard wages to continue to keep them down. Of those some slip even further down into homelessness.

And yes, before you ask, I do consider myself to be a socialist. Nothing like Leninism or Stalinism where the state controls every aspect of your life, but democratic socialism like in modern European countries.

 

[STR8UP]

I will use myself as an example. I work a full time job that pays pretty poorly for the business I'm in. With rent and utility bills figured in I am left with very little for my modest living expenses. I use that mostly for food and gas. Maybe once a month I will go to a bar and spend 20 dollars that night. Other than that I don't really spend my money on things I don't need. My most recent high end purchase was 30 dollars for a pair of headphones and even that made me feel guilty. I have been putting money aside, but at such small intervals, that if I lost my job, once my checking account was depleted, my savings would be cleaned out within a week.

So, how is it that I am supposed to save up money "just in case" if I am barely getting by right now?

So what you're telling me is that it is impossible for you to either

a) Get a better job

b) Work more hours at your current job

c) Get a second job

d) Start some kind of a part time business

e) Cut your living expenses by getting a roommate, driving a cheaper car, cutting your cable bill, etc?

I would be willing to bet that you are accustomed to a certain lifestyle, working a certain number of hours, living a certain way, etc. but aren't in any way "stuck" with your current situation.

Here's a good analogy for ya.

Some people have a genetic predisposition for obesity, just as some are genetically predisposed to being skinny, and everything in between.

Does that mean that a skinny person can never put on weight? Does this mean that a fat person will always be fat?

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

 

[theunflushables]

So what you're telling me is that it is impossible for you to either

a) Get a better job

b) Work more hours at your current job

c) Get a second job

d) Start some kind of a part time business

e) Cut your living expenses by getting a roommate, driving a cheaper car, cutting your cable bill, etc?

a) I don't know where you are at, but here jobs are scarce. I've been looking but nothing has turned up yet.

b) All OT has been frozen. Completely stupid because we had a record breaking month in January, close to 5,000 cars repossessed, you'd think they would offer more OT to keep up with the demand.

c) I am looking for a second job as well, but my 11.30am to 8.00pm schedule does make it a bit hard unless I were to bartend (which I'd love to do) but I have yet to find a bar that hires inexperienced people to work the bar.

d) How do you start a business without capital? Not trying to make an excuse, I've just haven't read up on entrepeneurship.

e) Living expenses have been cut. I have a roomate, I drive a 95 Olds Achieva that cost 1,200 dollars (I don't think I could go much cheaper without it being a lemon) PLPD coverage on the car. The only really frivilous thing is the extra 10 dollars a month for the sports package on the cable.

 

[STR8UP]

Well, it sounds as if you are living within your means.

People always have TWO options when it comes to getting ahead.

One option is to cut expenses. If you are already living modestly there might not be much fat to trim.

The second option, the BEST option, IMO is to increase your income. If you read any of Kiyosaki's stuff he talks about not denying yourself of the things that you desire.....you just have to figure out a way to pay for them. And this is really the best way to look at it because it motivates you. It is based on the idea of EXPANDING your world instead of contracting it. You can contract things only so much, but you can expand them infinitely.

The problem most people have with money is that they see it in only one, two, or three dimensions.

Those who see it in one dimension are only concerned about getting by day to day. Nothing saved, no assets, just paycheck to paycheck living.

People who see it in two dimensions are the kind who realize that there is another side of the coin- how much you spend. They control what they spend in order to save for a rainy day.

The third dimension is where most of the middle class comfortably (in theory anyway) resides. They understand that the more you make and the more you save, the more you have left to INVEST, and they manage to acquire some assets such as a 401k,etc.

The people who will probably never have to worry about being homeless are the ones who think of money as having MANY dimensions. They understand that it goes beyond earning, saving, and investing, it's also about CREATING.

You say "I don't know how to go about starting a business with no capital", and that shows me that you haven't realized that there are more than three dimensions. It sounds to me like you aren't earning enough at your current job to allow you to live a decent lifestyle and be able to invest, let alone think about CREATING.

The great thing about this is that part of the word CREATING is CREATE. And you can CREATE by getting CREATIVE.

There are thousands of ways to start a business with little money....you just haven't taken the time to go to the bookstore or the library to do some research.

How much is "a lot" of money to you? Is $500 unobtainable?

The reason I ask is because i am in the process of starting a couple of businesses on a shoestring budget. One is producing a series of informational videos. I already had the camera, lights, editing software, etc., but if I didn't already have these items it would have cost me about $500 to set it up. When they are finished I plan to sell them for $30-$50 each. That means that with this business alone, if I manage to sell 4 videos a day at an average of $40 each, well, do the math. That's a nice little side income, wouldn't you say?

I am also starting a business that involves "personal care" products. I will be spending about $10,000 to launch three different products, but if I were to put a little more of my own labor into it I would have been able to get in for less than $3000 total. The $3000 is mainly for product which has a retail value of close to $20,000. Worst case I sell it to a distributor for $4-$5k and wash my hands.

Granted, the only reason I am able to do a lot of this stuff is because I have TRIED AND FAILED at many things in the past, but I have taken with me valuable lessons that I am using. I started out trying a whole bunch of stuff, now I have skills in marketing, sales, graphic design and other media, etc. that allows me to do a lot of stuff others can't do or that would cost them an arm and a leg.

What's my point? Well, if a farm boy from the midwest who grew up lower middle class with nothing more than a high school diploma can make things happen, almost anyone can. You can sit around and make excuses all day long (not you personally), but at the end of the day, the people who get out there and try stuff and aren't afraid to fail are the ones who eventually get the payoff. And the ones who sit around and complain about being the victim of their circumstances just might find themselves without options and maybe even HOMELESS, because they didn't bother to try.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The easiest ways for me to make money have always been to find the tasks that everyone hates the most and offer to do those for money. Even when construction work was hard to find, I could always get work putting up fiberglass insulation, because almost everyone hates doing it. A lot of people don't like to mow their own lawn, either. That's why enterprising suburban 12-year-olds with lawn mowers can make as much money as grown men.

Another good place to look for lessons in industriousness is immigrants, in any country. They typically have a strike or two against them already, simply due to who they are. But there really is work to be had for pretty much everyone, if you are willing to work hard enough to find it. Most people won't work a lot of jobs in construction, clean hotel rooms, or work in a slaughterhouse. That is why undocumented immigrants in the US can always find work. They will do what other people won't.