On the eve of the NBA draft...Oden or Durant?

[backbreaker]

pretty self explanatory

I for one would go with Durant, even though he's not a center

1) Oden has lived off the ESPN gravy train ever since he was in high school. while he is defiantly a top 5 player.. he's not the next Ewing. He has no offense.. little to none. He's not as athletic, he has back problems and a right wrist that won't heal.

2) I can't ever remember a player coming out like Durant. Jonathan Bender was the closest thing, and he would have been a superstar if it weren't for injuries, he couldn't put 10 games together without his knees acting up.

 

[Bling]

Oden. You don't see players with that dominating stature often. I don't care if he puts up 20 pts a night for the rest of his career, and Durant puts up 25. You can always neutralize Durant, you can't neutralize a Greg Oden. Greg Oden can control the tempo of the whole game. He can slow it down if the team needs it, and he can sit it out while his team runs right by him for fastbreak points. Durant can't, it's actually to his advantage to speed up the game. Oden will demand double teams immediately and free up other players. Durant will have to earn that respect. Durant is a big man that plays like a SG. He hasn't developed the strength to compete down low yet.

It's kind of like Shaq vs. Kobe. Kobe might score more, but look how many Kobe NBA rings he has without Shaq. Shaq has made all three NBA playoffs, two Eastern Conference Finals, has helped blossom Dwayne Wade, and most of all, one ring. Kobe hasn't even made it into the second round. I don't care if it's the East vs. West stuff. Not making it into the second round just says he can't control the game enough to win a 7 game series. Making it to the NBA Finals at 34 or what he is says he can still control the game.


And you know what? I really want Durant. He's an all-star in this league. He's a complete beast. Add him to any team, and you make them a playoff team immediately.

 

[backbreaker]

but it makes no difference if oden can't play because of injuries.

the same argument was made with the dream and Sam Bowie/Jordan... granted.. houston didn't LOOSE, they got 2 rings out of it, but the bulls got the best player ever and 6 rings.

everyone said the same thing about the kandy man when he came out. just because you are big and somewhat athletic.. you have to have skill.

oden will not demand double teams.. he can't score against someone as athletic as he is and that is his size yet.. and while they don't have players AS good as he CAN BE.. they have a hell of alot of players that are as good as he is now. theres 1 or 2 on every NBA bench. he has no jump shot.. no hook.. he dunks and has a 3-4 foot jumper that he shoots over 6-9 players n the big 10. put him against say.... Jamal Magloire and see how many shots he wll hit.

he will be a great player, I'm not saying he wont'..but offensively he's not in the same stratosphere as Durant.

to put it in perspective, NO PLAYER HAS EVER done what Durant did in his freshman year.. none. Ever. Not one.



Oden is the best DEFENSIVE prospect I have seen in a while... maybe ever

but you don't draft defensive prospects number 1 overall.

 

[backbreaker]

ODEN!!!!


He has talent with no ceiling.

The team that will get ODEN or DURANT is a team that's looking to rebuild. Most likely..Portland.

And the team that’s in last place or getting any of those players…I’m putting money down are teams that have a weak PF/C.

You aren't looking for a championship on the 1st year..you're looking for a dynasty. Durant is sick as well, but Oden is the type of player you only see once in a decade.

Oden has awesome athleticism, size, defense, strength, rebounding, potential and he can swat shots...a skill that is becoming more and more rare in the NBA. I mean this guy can swat as much shots, if not more than Big Ben, Emeka Okafor, Tim Duncan..etc. And as we all know, it's not just about the shots you block, it's all about the shots you change.


It's really a tough call between Durant and Oden, but you always go for the rare position...that can make or break your team. Most teams that are just one inch away from the playoffs or the championships or the finals are BEGGING for a big PF/C that can crash the boards, swat shots, and make a nightmare on the opposite end of the court.

Small forwards are a dime a dozen.

Shooting guards are everywhere.

The two most rare positions in the NBA..are POINT guards and EXCELLENT PF/Cs. You can count them. I can count a ton of SFs and SGs that are good..but there literally only like 5 GOOD CENTERS…IN THE ENTIRE NBA.

Very rarely do you see players that can average at least 15 points and 2 blocks in a game. Fuk, I can name them right now.

You got Shawn Marion, Emeka Okafor, Shaq, Josh Smith, Tim Duncan, yao, Elton Brand...and I think that's about it.

Good PF/Cs are so rare it's not even funny... SFs and SGs are everywhere...but good Centers and point guards are not...and those 2 make or break a team.

There are a LOT Of teams that would be awesome if they just had a decent PF/Cs like Oden.

ie. the Celtics, the Warriors, the Lakers, the 76ers, the Nets, The New orleans hornets, Sac Kings, Sonics, Bucks, washington wizards..etc.

and most of the teams that MADE or reached the playoffs had a BIG...ie. the Rockets (Yao Ming), the Cavaliers (Ilgauskas and Gooden), the Chicago Bulls (ben wallace) , the Miami Heat (Shaq), utah Jazz (boozer and Millsap), Spurs (Tim Duncan), Phoenix Suns (Amare..kinda and Marion), Denver Nuggets (camby and ..that other guy),

I have a feeling Oden is going to be better than Dwight Howard. And having a player like that is a huge upgrade to any team.

ha ha..btw, don't compare Olowokandi to Oden. They’re entirely different.

Having an awesome Powerforward/Center is crucial to the game. You can't stop Shaq. You can't stop Duncan. You can't stop Dwight Howard.

and you can't stop Oden.

this mistake you are making is overlooking the other prospect.

any other year, literarly, besides the year Lebron came out... it's a no brainer.

Durrant is not like any other player you have ever seen. Not even KG. KG doesn't have his quickness and doesn't have the range he has, nor the ball handling skills... not that he is far off.

Durant will come into the league next year and be a top 15esque player. he's THAT good. you can't guard him. he's a legit 6'9 if not taller, has a 7'2 wingspan, is as quick as shawn marion off the floor and can dribble by 90% of the small fowards in the league. He's 19 and already has a polished back to the basket game and can shot 3's form NBA range like free throws.. and actually make them (unlike lamar odom).. upper 80% free throw shooter, great offensive rebounder.. do I need to go on?

AS A FRESHMAN IN THE BIG 12 avg 25 a game.

we aren't talking josh smith or Darius Miles here. that's the point I'm trying to get across.

Plus, don't sleep on portlans big men. They have Zach Randoplh.. who I'm not a huge fan of but he's there. They have Lemarcus Alderidage who this time last year was the next KG.. hype but still he is going to be a very very good PF in due time. It's not like they have a bunch of small forwards running around.. okay they do, but they also have some big men also.

the only thing that really gets me is that Oden has played on talent laden teams his entire life. He has yet to show any offensive game besides dunking.. he is an excellent Defender, i'll give you that, but he is sitll foul prone.. very much so. And has a bad back, and a bad risk, and to make matters worse he looks like robert parish, whihc is a definate turn off. And it'ssuposed to be a "slam dunk" of a pick.

What I see when I see Durant is a KG equse player who is more is more offensivly talented. You put him on portlands team, with Roy and LA and that team in 2 years is SCARY good. Not that Oden is a bad pick, I don't think you can make a bad pick in this situtation...

 

[DJDamage]

You can't go wrong in either of those picks and both picks have a chance to out do one another. Portland is in the tough position here because Seattle would just take who ever drops. I did hear in the pre draft camp in Portland that Oden was good but not great while Durant just wowed them. However the latest I hear that both Roy and Aldridge really liked Oden and think Portland would take him so take it for what its worth.

In the NBA draft its always better to select a player based on talent and not on need. Therefore I would choose Durant over Oden but to be honest I would still feel bad about it.

 

[ConantheLibertarian]

The Lakers, Spurs, Pistons and Heat have won the last 9 finals. What did they all have in common? Durant is a great talent, but Oden gives you that inside presence that is sought after by so many. And I think it would be easier to teach a guy offense who is already a beast defensively, than the the other way around. He's 7'2" 280, he'll learn how to use all that.

 

[backbreaker]

Durant is already a better defender than Dirk and s more of an inside player than Tmac.. tmac is more athletic (might be the most athletic person I have ever seen.. I played against him in HS... words can't describe how easy the game comes to him)

KG is a GREAT player. you put him on a REAL team (hopefully today) and he is an NBA top 50 type player. So I understand where you are coming from.

but have you ever seen a player in the last 15 years or so with this kid's skillset at 19? Lebron wasn't close to this polished coming out of highshool. he still can't shoot as good as Durant can, he doesn't ahve the post game Durant has... everything else is up for grabs

 

[backbreaker]

Durant isn't too skinny. Brandon Wright is too skinny. 6-9 and 220 is fine for the position and style he plays

 

[wayword]

Oden's athletic for a big guy...but let's not overhype it. The big man with the highest vert in the Draft is actually ~7' Yi Jianlian with a 3-step ~38" vert. By comparison, Oden's running vert is 34", although he has a slightly higher standing reach of 9'4". With which he can reach 12'3" on the backboard - 3" shy of Dwight Howard.

Centers also have one of the longest learning curves because they operate in such heavy traffic and are most often the ones who get double-teamed. They take a lot more physical abuse too and so if Oden is injury-prone, that could lead to a lot of IR time. It's a tough position to play and that alone is going to present a challenge to him. Which is why so many big men prospects ultimately don't pan out to much...

Durant is a great scorer with great moves, but unfortunately he's pretty unathletic. In the pre-Draft "combines," he was surprisingly basically ranked LAST (78/80)! At 6'9", he only has a standing vert of 26" and a running vert of 33.5". But his saving grace is a ridiculously long-armed standing reach of 9'2"! But while his skills may have compensated for that sufficiently in the college ranks, there may be a slight question of if they also will in the NBA.

Ultimately, everyone gets so hyped up with the Draft...but the fact is you always have a lot of big busts and Cinderella stories once they all get in the League. Nobody really knows how these guys will turn out until they actually play for a few years.

 

[backbreaker]

when you are 6-9 you don't have to jump 5 feet in the air.

skill set wise durant is unmatched. Athleticism.. I 'd never thought I'd see the day that a Jap is the most athletic guy int he draft... he's good. real good. I've been hearing about this kid for the last 5 years. he is to me clearly the 3rd best player in the draft.

 

[Bling]

Oden outran Durant in the workouts. Oden beat Durant in the vertical leap, agility drill and three-quarter sprint. We're talking about a guy that can outdo Durant at something he's suppose to be better than Oden at. I think you're arguing Durant just so you can be one of those "I told you so" people.

 

[backbreaker]

naw.... people are saying that because he avg'ed 25 a game, was the national player of the year as a freshman, and is virtually unstoppable on the offensive end of the court.

An I told you so player would be Brandon Wright, who if he gained 30 or so pounds of muscle, could be a beast in the NBA

 

[backbreaker]

naw.... people are saying that because he avg'ed 25 a game, was the national player of the year as a freshman, and is virtually unstoppable on the offensive end of the court.

An I told you so player would be Brandon Wright, who if he gained 30 or so pounds of muscle, could be a beast in the NBA

i for one dont' put my stock in workouts. I've seen these players play for the last 3 years.. I know what are and are not capable of.

with all of that said, a Portland scout was quoted as saying "he's the most talented player I have ever scouted".. so his workouts couldn't have been THAT bad

 

[ValleyDJing]

1) Oden has lived off the ESPN gravy train ever since he was in high school. while he is defiantly a top 5 player.. he's not the next Ewing. He has no offense.. little to none. He's not as athletic, he has back problems and a right wrist that won't heal.

Two Questions bro...

1) What are you smoking? and...
2) Where can I get some?

NO OFFENSE?! Let me say this first I f.ucking hate everything Ohio State and I'm gonna tell you right now...Oden is a pimp! He did all that s.hit this year with one hand for god's sakes! Against Florida in the championship game he put up 25 f.ucking points! Thats unholy! That Florida squad was the best college basketball team of the last decade, maybe longer.

 

[wayword]

The Summer League play has been revealing so far...

Looks like I was on-the-mark with my post #12.

Oden was able to bulldoze his way through the collegiate game...but with the higher athletic level of the NBA - he's lost a lot of his physical advantage (even got a shot blocked in his opener) and now needs better skills down low to compensate. Which he currently lacks since he didn't need them in college. End result is that he's become a foul machine and far less dominant offensively.

Meanwhile, Durant has the opposite problem. His polished skillset compensated for his unathleticism in college ball. However, this may not prove enough at the next level here - and his unathleticism is becoming a liability. Midway through the Knicks game...he already had his shot BLOCKED 3X and probably felt the pressure on the others (going 2-for-10).

Yi has also had a rocky start...but has made some highlight plays and quelled any doubts about being too soft. He can bang down low and go up strong for shot blocks...and dunk whenever possible. He also showed a lot of crunchtime poise with his buzzer-beating game-winning turnaround jumper against the Cavs.

My future predictions?

Oden can still adapt and become a formidable center. He just needs to upgrade his skills. Nothing new here - standard procedure for NBA centers due to their longer learning curve. Although, his questionable health may become a liability. Seriously, the guy looks like he's already 40 - wtf?

Durant may become limited by his unathleticism. Which is much harder to improve than your skills. Which means his game may already be "maxed out." If so, he might get relegated to becoming just a good role player. I'm not sure if he can become an All-Star.

Yi may actually have the most upside here. He's already got the athleticism and great fundy skills. I think he can hit the ground running and become an immediate impact player. But longterm, he needs to gain more power for the low post and maybe extend his range to the 3. And also work more on defense. Unfortunately, being stuck on the Bucks may impede his progress if he can't get the right training and support there...

The interesting thing here is that conventional American wisdom labelled Oden & Durant as the "safe" "no-brainer" picks and foreign prospects like Yi as very high-risk. And there was some truth to that. But with globalization, playing fields are levelling and scouting is going to be more on an individualized basis in the future. I think the NBA is going to diversify a lot more like baseball has - as sports become more popular in other industrializing countries as they get more leisure time.

 

[backbreaker]

i can't believe you called someone who scored 18 points in his opener a role player. that's funny (Durant)

Durant is athletic enough. he's not the most athletic guy in the world... Look at Gerald Wallace.. doesn't get much more athletic than him. I actually played against him in HS at a regional tournment... he wasn't even that good then. he wa athletic as fvck and can do what he wanted, but his basketball skill set, to be that highly ranked of a player, left alot to be desired.

At 6'9 I don't know what the hell you are expecting.. he's not Vince Carter. But he 's long enough to get his shot off over just about any SF in the league which is all I care for, and can hit his shot and knows how to score. Dirk isn't the most athletic guy on earth either and he was the league MVP

basic basketball skills..shooting, rebounding, ball handiling, will get you a long way. even in the NBA. It's not all about athleticism although you do need it to a varying extent.

The first time I saw oden I didn't see what everyone saw in him.. is he big? yeah, and he's not BAD but he's not the next Bill Russell or anything. he's not THAT athletic and he isn't/wasn't in the same planet as Ewing, Morning or O'Neal coming out of college.

 

[backbreaker]

Two Questions bro...

1) What are you smoking? and...
2) Where can I get some?

NO OFFENSE?! Let me say this first I f.ucking hate everything Ohio State and I'm gonna tell you right now...Oden is a pimp! He did all that s.hit this year with one hand for god's sakes! Against Florida in the championship game he put up 25 f.ucking points! Thats unholy! That Florida squad was the best college basketball team of the last decade, maybe longer.

No offense dude, but I've been playing basketball pretty much my entire life. I grew up in a basketball family. I played basketball at a pretty damn high level, AAU national level. I've played on the same team as future NBA players (Joe Johnson, Ronnie Brewer) and alot of college players as well (Bam Doyne, Mike Jones (who is my cousin), and other players who most people probably don't know). I've played against what would be now considered an all start team.... Tracy McGrady (10th grade, high school tournment), Damien Wilkens (Peach Jam), Dejaun Wagner, Tyson Chandler. I've played against Corliss Williamson a number of times over the last 6 years in varous tournments around little rock.

I don't go for hype. I know what i see when I see a good player or not. Oden is just not THAT damn athletic. Nor is he that polished. He's just big. cAN HE BE Good? sure. he has the potential. but everyone thinking he was the second coming of Wilt needed to slooow down. I would have traded that first pick, he wsn't worth it in that state espically with his back problems.

A player I really like, and I'm starting to like even more than Durant, is Brandon Wright. On horrible advice from his agent (not to work out against anyone) he slipped in the draft. If he puts on 30 pounds, he would be the 2nd or 3rd most skilled big man i the NBA in the next 2-3 years. he has every low post move you can imagine. he's more athletic than Durant or Oden.. he's just too damn skinny. and despite his longness and smallest, he has the largest wingspan I have ever seen, he's a legit 7'0 and he is a TRUE low post player that can run like a damn cheetah.

 

[wayword]

i can't believe you called someone who scored 18 points in his opener a role player. that's funny (Durant)

But only on 5-of-17 (29%) shooting... Look, when your FG% drops below 40%, especially below 30%...you're wasting possessions and becoming a liability. But, maybe that was just jitters and I'm "assuming" he will regain some accuracy soon.

Now, am I a prophet or what? This just in:

Oden Likely to Miss Rest of Summer League

In THE OREGONIAN, Jason Quick writes "Greg Oden opened his mouth wide as if he were sitting in a dentist's chair on Monday. At the back of his mouth, his tonsils were so swollen that only a small passageway, about the size of a green grape, was evident. Because of the obstructed air passage and the pain that accompanies the swollen tonsils, the Trail Blazers on Monday made a spur-of-the-moment decision: Oden's tonsils need to be removed within the next three or four days, probably ending his involvement in the Trail Blazers' summer league play after just two games."

Sure, it's not joint-related...but I'd still be concerned if Oden suffers from poor overall health in general and may be injury-prone. And getting banged up down low game-in and game-out is not going to be helping matters for him...

Of course, lots of rookies have rough starts in the Summer League but go on to achieve greatness. So, everything now is still highly speculative. Can Durant's length and skills compensate for his unathleticism? Can Oden stay healthy and pass the long 5 learning curve? Will Yi get the right experience to maximize his potential and become a future All-Star? Guess we'll find out...!

 

[backbreaker]

But only on 5-of-17 (29%) shooting... Look, when your FG% drops below 40%, especially below 30%...you're wasting possessions and becoming a liability. But, maybe that was just jitters and I'm "assuming" he will regain some accuracy soon.

I was kinda hoping none noticed that

5 for 17 is horrible... but that's his shots not falling. I'll take that over 10 fouls anyday of the week

 

[wayword]

I was kinda hoping none noticed that

5 for 17 is horrible... but that's his shots not falling. I'll take that over 10 fouls anyday of the week

Ha ha, nice try..

I didn't watch the game, so I don't know what the real reason here was:

- If he was missing open shots that he normally makes...then maybe that was just rookie jitters - and recoverable.

- But if he was missing shots because they were being more strongly contested - and he was thus pressured to rush them, alter them or take them at a longer range...then that would be due more to his unathleticism and harder to correct.

Let's not forget - 2006 #3 draft pick, Adam Morrison, was also a great unathletic shooter in college - but has arguably "flopped" in the L so far. His PER was just a little over 7 (about the worst starter in the L)...compared to the league average of 15. Durant better hope he doesn't become this year's Morrison - a high lottery pick capable of having a few good shooting nights with a lotta minutes...but otherwise often inconsistent and little else. I don't think he'll do that poorly since he's much longer...but he still might fall in that general direction.