On Being Friends: Different perspective, from different framings

Lotus Effect

Master Don Juan
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Hey guys,

Disclaimer:
- - - - - - - - - - - -
I know my way around chicks, but,
Recently I have some life changing events, that got me into a completely different position from where I was before, confort wise.

If some of you followed my latest posts, earlier this year I've met with my highschool crush (Dy), had a relationship with her, and pretty much moved from Brazil to Portugal, because of her, just to be promptly dumped.

So, I was in a new country, in a new city, in a new job, without my friends, family, or anything familiar, and the only thing that I knew discarded me, so it really brought me down to stage 1.

This thread is not about this, or her, or oneitis, this thread is about everything that unfolded after that, and, the "Friendzone"
(This story bellow happened in the short time span of a month, from September 18, to October 30)
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I'll give you guys some context, in order for you to understand the different framing

Dy - HB 9, Single Mom, 1 kid, Divorcee, 33 yo:
She said: 'Lotus, you are being too heavy, I need something lighter. Let's just be friends' <---1st Perspective: Bad Frame

It crushed me, but, after long years my gut knew the proper response. Which was: 'Sorry, I have absolutely no interest in being friends with you'

It wasn't hard for me saying it, because I knew that there's no other way (even though the AFC in me kickecd and screamed in regret for days on).
She got ultra mad, and kicked me out of her house. She said I was just like the other guys and whatever, I said I wasn't, 'cause I was being honest with her and being honest with me. I didn't want to be a boy toy after all we had.

I knew all my flaws, in needyness, and being overly available and clingy. But there was nothing I could do.
By the time, she was the only thing real here in Portugal, and I tried to hold onto that.

So I left, and that was that. Just a quick note, I had a motorbike accident, broke the collar bone 2 minutes after I left her place. Went to the hospital and had a surgery. The 5 days I was there, she never went to visit me. She called me a week later just to check how I was, and that was the last time we spoke.

And from that moment on I was out of place and underdressed (also recovering from a broken heart and collar bone op)

What are you suposed to do in such situation? Can't workout, only work. Can't go out, only rest?
Back to the basics. Worked around my schedule, routine and habits. Read some Ryan Holiday, Marcus Aurelius, The Prince, Art of War, Mode One, No More Mr. Nice Guy and the good and old Book of Pook, to put me back on track.

And it did!

So after a while, I was out on the field, and decided to go back to my natural state of direct gaming.
» Note: Direct game has been working for me for a long time now, and after reading Mode 1, it just gave me more certainty about it. «

Kirs - HB 8,7, Divorcee, 29yo:

Long story short, met this German chick (Kiki), and after 20 minutes of talk just said that I find her really atractive, and I wanted to make out with her, and since we are grown ups, I could still talk to her like a regular person, but now she knew what I really wanted, and she could do whatever the f she wanted with that information. She blushed.

I could see that she was into me, so I left her in purpose (false time constraint), but when I saw her again, she decided that she wanted to leave, and told me that She understood how I felt about her, but she rather be friends! This time, with this chick, I said of course, why not, you are a fun chick. Let's do it.

Patience is the refined sense of confidence. <---2nd Perspective: Good frame.

One day she texts me, telling me that she wanted to do some Muay Thai classes. I can't because of my collar bone, but I took her to the place. She got out super excited. It was a fun action date. She was super touchy feely, but since she decided to rather be friends, I took the high road, and remained friendly towards her.

So I invited her to my place, got her inside, and was super friendly on my words (not on my actions though). She left. I knew I had her from that moment on, and again, I got nothing but time, so I let her walk.

Last friday she said she wanted to go out to the Muay Thai classes again, but since I had a date, I said let's do it monday. She was in. So monday came, and so came she. I told her, let's meet at the mall, she said, 'why not at you place?'... >:) tell me about friendship huh. She got home, left her jacket there on purpose, and we went to the classes. On our way back, again super excited from the endorphyn, once we got home, I told her it was cold and that she needed to warm me. One thing led to another, and she went from friend to friend +!

Tild - HB8,5 Single mom, 2 kids, 37yo:

In between all this hot mess, I've met a Portuguese chick (Tild), whose at the time, was dating this french guy.
So from ground zero, I was into the friend zone.

We partied and whatevs, but, since she was actually portuguese, I aimed for the friendzone, considering I knew no one in the city, and she is like super well connected. That night we just bonded as friends. On our way home, I deciced to flip the script, and before anything could ever happen, I told her:

'Hey Tild, you are a super fun chick to be around, let's be friends!' <---3rd Perspective: Awesome Frame

We went out a second night. That time she wasn't with the guy, and I kindda brought her into my world. I was in a large group of people that I was the central piece (Kirs was there as well), and other 2 chicks from the office, so lot's of social proof and DHV.

That night I did not made a single move, she introduced me to her cousin, which was instantly into me, and I ditched an Israelly chick to leave the place with her. We shared a cab home. And that was that. Didn't spoke to her again.

2 weeks after, she texted me inviting me over to a party. First stop, her place. Over there I played the friend role, again saying one thing, but acting in a more sensual vibe, and we all know, only the sexual one's gets the girls. Her cousin showed up, we went to the party, and my frame was badass. I got there with two hot chicks, so all the chicks in the party wanted to talk to me... you know the drill.

And so I did spoke to all the chicks, improving my value by the minute in Tild's eyes. By the end of the night, I got the cousin. Not my type, so I was aloof, which made her invest even more. So we bounced to another club, and by then I was on fire, talking to everyone. It didn't take long for Tild to come up to me and kiss me.

We went back to her place, made out, slept, and then she made me coffee, and drove me home, with a kiss goodbye.

- - - - - - -

So, my point here is, being "friends" or in "the friendzone" is not all the desperation it is painted to be. It is all about your framing, and how you proceed with it.

In the first scenario, I was already in a relationship with the chick, and displayed lot's of beta behaviour up until the point of no attraction. In that particular case, being in the friendzone would be like dead in the water. So the best course of action was to bail, go No Contact, and cry alone in the dark. That situation is hopeless, and being friends does no good for you, and all good for the chick.

In the second case, I accepeted being friends, because we have just met, and I knew she had an attraction spark, so patience was key (also having a backup chick to maintain me occupied). Eventually, by being a fun guy to be around, not doing regular stuff, things could spark. As they did.

And in the last case, I choose being friends because it was beneficial to me. The girl knew all the cool places in town, so being around her, was a key to many doors. Also, being a hot chick, blonde with green eyes, this is always good social proof for the other chicks to lean on me.

- - - - - -

Bottomline:

As with everything, you gotta look from which perspective you are coming from, and what frame you are imposing. So yes,I agree with pook in all of his lessons, but, depending on the outlook, you should not abandon all hope if you enter the friendzone.

You might even reap some benefits from it!

Thats it guys! Have a nice week
 

Lotus Effect

Master Don Juan
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Everything you're saying is suspect because you continually grade wall-nearing or post-wall women with kids at 8.5+

I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that your HB meter is thirsty.


Take a look at your d*ck, let's you see that footprint on it? It's yours.


Your entire "frame" here is how to own your friendzone status... You're making a virtue out of what you MUST endure (AKA "slave mentality").
sorry that you think like this mate, and I’m even more particularly sorry that you act out in such a manner out in a web forum!

as I’ve said in the post, I know my way around chicks. Being doing this for far to long now, and am well comfortable with direct game. And as I’ve also said, I’ve got of balance because I lost all points of reference in my life by moving to another country in a new job.

I can guarantee you, I’m pretty confident and self relient, but being alone with no family friends or even coworkers in a completely alien place can take a heavy toll on you. Try it and tell me later. (And add a bone crushing accident to top it)

as Chowda said above, there is no magic bullet, and each situation was different from the other. But accepting or not being friends depends from where you are coming, and what are your goals. That’s the whole point of this thread.

go read some pook, and you will see exactly this wisdom there

the last chick, tild, I truly wanted to be friends. Gatekeeper much! If you fail to see the benefit from this, than there is nothing I could tell you.

and about the scores, they are solid, I’m pretty picky about looks and body! if you don’t believe than I can’t care less about it. Chicks are working out too much as well

have a nice one mate
 

All_Kindz_Of_Gainz

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sorry that you think like this mate, and I’m even more particularly sorry that you act out in such a manner out in a web forum!

as I’ve said in the post, I know my way around chicks. Being doing this for far to long now, and am well comfortable with direct game. And as I’ve also said, I’ve got of balance because I lost all points of reference in my life by moving to another country in a new job.

I can guarantee you, I’m pretty confident and self relient, but being alone with no family friends or even coworkers in a completely alien place can take a heavy toll on you. Try it and tell me later. (And add a bone crushing accident to top it)

as Chowda said above, there is no magic bullet, and each situation was different from the other. But accepting or not being friends depends from where you are coming, and what are your goals. That’s the whole point of this thread.

go read some pook, and you will see exactly this wisdom there

the last chick, tild, I truly wanted to be friends. Gatekeeper much! If you fail to see the benefit from this, than there is nothing I could tell you.

and about the scores, they are solid, I’m pretty picky about looks and body! if you don’t believe than I can’t care less about it. Chicks are working out too much as well

have a nice one mate
So you play the puzzy friend, you spent time on her taking her to do things on your time with the hope of fvcking her. Not looking good man, you time is valuable, you shouldn't be bending backwards to try to fvck women, like taking her to classes, going to the mall etc, that's for guys with thirty mentality.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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Attractive men and women cannot just be friends, if you are it’s because of restraint, on the man’s part.

There is ALWAYS sexual tension, which makes true friendship impossible.

I’d be amazed if any man who is being honest would not tap an attractive female “friend” were she to offer. The ones who say otherwise are friendzoned, which is the only construct that works and as a result you’re chumped.
 

All_Kindz_Of_Gainz

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Ok there Mr Alpha
Doesn't have to do with Alpha, my time is valuable and if a girls says she's not interested I don't play the friend card, don't take her on dates as friends, don't take her out to do things as friends, with the covert contract of "If I play my friend card right, I'll get laid"
 

bat soup

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It's not friendship itself that is bad. You could start as friends and progress to something more. Sometimes within about 5 minutes.

What's bad is the "just friends" talk. That's the kiss of death. It's a limit. A negative. A stop board. If a woman really means it, which sometimes she doesn't.
 

Lotus Effect

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I guess you haven't got the point.

The first chick I got LBJF after aLTR with her. That's bad, and that's why I said 'No thanks, I have no interest on being friends with you' and never spoke to her again. I did it because being her "friend" would not add ANYTHING good for me. Only pain, frustation and bitterness.

That's common knowledge.

The second chick I knew that there was sensual tension, so her being friends was just some reasoning on her part. The main reason why I know that is becauses after that, she asked me out, went to my place and we hooked up. There was no chasing tail on my part.

Besides that, this weekend she invited me on a road trip with her, with her paying the car rental and the gasoline and pretty much everything. Free lunch!

And the third chick, as I've told you guys time and time again, is benefical for me being friends with, because I am new in town. I don't know anyone is this country, so as any normal human being, I need friends. I'm not trying to push anything, if it happens it as once did, it happens, but the benefit on being friends with her far outwheight the benefit of pumping and dumping.

She pretty much knows everything and everyone. Again, not taking her to dates, not paying anything to her. She is just carrying me along to parties, bars, and making me meet knew people, for example, her cousin which I also hooked up, and a 19 yo surfers, hot AF.

All I'm trying to tell here is how you read things, and what kind of benefit you gain from different relationships with other human beings, male or female.
 
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