Older women

[Old Buck]

I recently became involved with a woman who is 42, while I am 38. Although I have dated and/or slept with a few older women over the years, it never progressed very far so this is the first relationship I have had with someone older than me. We were introduced by mutual friends, I called and asked her out, we hit it off on the first date. She is very attractive, has a nice career, takes good care of herself, and is great company both in and out of bed. Throw in an awesome personality and sense of humor and I wonder if I haven't met my soul mate after years of believing sh!t like that only happened in the movies. She has only one marriage in her past and no children. She said she wanted kids but it didn't seem to be in God's plan that she have any. She seems to be comfortable around my children and them around her. At this point, there aren't any negatives. She has been divorced for many years and doesn't seem to be anxious to re-marry. She has told me about several men she dated who actually pushed the marriage issue but she didn't feel it was the right guy at the right time so she passed on the proposal. The reason for this post is, since I have never been in a relationship with an older woman I was wondering if someone on this board has, and if they could tell me what to expect from her in the coming months, generally speaking. It may not be any different than a 25 year old but I have a sense that due to her being more mature and successful than the average girl the usual rules may not apply. With all the qualities this girl has, I don't want to f*ck it up and always look at her as the one who got away.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Your asking to predict what a woman will do? You're kidding, right?

The only advice you need is what she's already given you. She knows what she wants and she doesn't like to be pressured into those things.

Slow your roll and enjoy the moment.

 

[JoeBlack]

I wouldn't approach it any differently than any other woman. Definately don't walk around on egg shells, trying not to **** things up.

Be yourself, put no pressure on and behave as you should with every other girl.

 

[Latinoman]

The issue here is not the fact that she is 42. The issue here is that she might be hitting the menopause thing within the next 5 years. I know several men that are involved with girlfriends that are going through the menopause (goes from denying their men from sex to complete changes in mood swings - all hormonal stuff that they cannot control). Do your research and read about it.

You are 38. Starting your second life. In reallity (and regardless of what society has told made us think in the past), you SHOULD be in your complete masculine prime (when physical, professional, experience, etc. are combined).

My point is...she might still look great now. She might still be sexual now. But...she might not be in 2 or 3 or 5 years. Would you be able to live with that?

Another thing...she is a career woman. And she wants kids. I know several in that age group that have gotten pregnant.

All I'm saying is thread carefully. EVERY woman, regardless of age, is going to show their "best". Some might try to bait a man and then do the switch thing after they are married. Younger women can afford to show their true selves early. Older women don't.

I don't buy the "ALL of them wanted to married me but I didn't want to marry" story. I truly don't. Unless she was dating losers or men for sex.

To answer your question...treat her like you would treat another woman you are dating. I truly don't see the difference (I'm amazed when a man in his upper 30s adjust his behavior when they are dating a woman that is 21, same applies here - no adjustment necessary, simply be masculine).

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I wonder if I haven't met my soul mate after years of believing sh!t like that only happened in the movies.

Repeat this to yourself over and over again:

There is no ONE. There are some good Ones and there are some bad Ones, but there is no ONE.

At 38 you cannot afford to continue to believe horsesh!t romanticism idealizations. This is the soulmate myth, disabuse yourself of this fairytale now.

That said, I'm 38 as well, and I can tell you in all honesty that were I to find myself single tomorrow morning, the last woman I would entertain would be 4 years older than me. I'd be sarging in the 24 to 30 zone, and 30 would be pushing it.

 

[Latinoman]

I saw the "soulmate" thing...and was about to say something. "Soulmate" is a woman remark or a romatism thing created for the purpose of selling chocolates and flowers.

I find it absurd that mature men believe in this concept.

 

[Old Buck]

It was never my intention to "entertain" an older woman. On the contrary, I have always went for the younger ones and several of my buddies are amused that I am now with an older babe after, as they so eloquently put it, hustling so much young pvssy over the years. Since my divorce became final at the age of 35, I have dated several women in their early 20's all the way up to the early 40's. The younger women seem to have a lot of issues and many of them give the impression they are after my pocketbook and/or want me to raise their kids. Also, anyone more than 10 years younger than me is from a different generation and it seems we have less in common. I married a woman 8 years younger than me and we see how that turned out. Although I am not wealthy, I am upper middle class with substantial assets and that sometimes makes a woman see dollar signs if she isn't established in a career of her own. My girl now makes great money and has a body many 25 yr. olds would kill to have. I am surprised to find myself with someone 4 yrs. older because I, too, have usually regarded women in their 40's as past their expiration date and only good for a quick roll in the hay. But I don't know that I have ever had this kind of connection with a girl before. After less than 3 months together, we practically finish one another's sentences and enjoy doing anything and everything together. With that said, I agree with you Rollo there is no "one" person out there that we are meant to be with but at the same time, I think if one holds oneself to the age range of 24-30 then you are limiting the options. I have an range of from ten yrs. younger to five yrs. older and even then it can be adjusted if I meet somone who intrigues me. I have lived long enough to know there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Sinistar]

Everyone's advise seems spot-on here, especially Rollo & Latinoman. I'd like to add in a few other angles.

First of all, your entire post has hint/subtext of the Rescuer/Savior thing. Not crazy overboard stuff, but it's there just under the surface. Mainly I picked up on this from the chat about the past marriage, not in God's plan for her to have kids, etc.

Next, you have slept with and dated other older women - and they didn't work out. Perhaps they weren't the exceptions and it is quite possible this gal will wind up on that very same list.

Last Point....

It may not be any different than a 25 year old BUT I have a sense that due to her being more mature and successful than the average girl the usual rules may not apply. With all the qualities this girl has, I don't want to f*ck it up and always look at her as the one who got away.

Its kinda silly that a single word (bold/highlighted) tip off what you're really thinking. You know that a relationship with this woman will most likely be quite different than that of a 25yr HB. She carries more baggage, will become increasingly concerned about her appearance, body, etc.

And the most important point, from your words you appear to already be losing the control frame:

She has told me about several men she dated who actually pushed the marriage issue but she didn't feel it was the right guy at the right time so she passed on the proposal.

I think she is communicating to you that she is one the doing the qualifying, chosing, dumping, etc. Shouldn't it be the other way around.

I chimed in because for years I sought relationships with older women. They never worked. It was always a struggle for control, partly because they assume (and at certains time were) more mature. And they always had a past which a real man would have given more thought and realized it wouldn't be going anywhere. Instead I took the ridiculous AFC route, felt sorry for them or whatever that beta/wussy feeling was which which was simply a mask for the rescuer/savior attempt for intimacy. And we all know in the end, the chickie is not going to settle down with that guy.

I didn't even see your question the first time I read your post because the majority of your post was qualifying her. If things were going awesome I don't think you would have even posted. To answer your question:

If you do what Francisco d'Anconia & JoeBlack advise, take things very slowly, don't get serious and all throughout, get/keep/assert that you're in control perhaps it will might out.

My money says that "in the coming months" you will want to get more serious. She clearly ain't going there and it will suck. If she gets attached to your kids and/or they get attached to her it might suck even more.

I stand 100% behind Rollo's advice regarding younger women. This site helped me see the core mistakes I had been making. I now refuse to date older women. Besides the younger women I've been dating in general seem less b!tchy, more optimistic, have more fun, higher esteem, rarely bring up past relationships and have much better bodies.

 

[MightyMate]

I only make LTR with women older than me +2.

 

[grinder]

Two questions:

1) What do you want to do? Marriage, "settle down". Sounds like you are angling in that direction. I won't bust on you for the "so*lmate" word (yes, it does deserve sensoring) but this kind of thinking presupposes a narrow outcome.

2) Kids: need to get that totally cleared up. What do both you and she really want? It's a slow-motion train wreck if either of you is not clear.

 

[Chrispy]

Grinder's on the right track. It sounds to me that you're in a comfortable situation. Grinder's questions are the right one - what do you want out of it in the next while? Do you both want the same things?

 

[Latinoman]

This is what still bothers me: the fact that she had to mention that she had several men proposed to her in the past and that she said "no". Men that were involved with her in relationships.


I find that very fishy. I find that (the fact that she even had to mention it) a red flag.

I mean, she WANTS kids. She is matured and was proposed by several of the men she was involved with.

Is she trying to tell you that

1- at her mature age
2- and wanting kids
3- she was turning down marriage proposals
4- from men she choose to be involved in relationships?

It makes NO sense. In fact, it is telling me that this is an INSECURE woman trying to OVERsell herself. Try to tell you very subtlely that she is THE PRIZE.

She is looking for a husband. Make no mistake about that.

Another thing...what typically work with this (and any woman)? If it is not $$$, or any sense of security...then is PURE MASCULINITY.

You talk about "soulmate" and "connection". You are in fact, talking like a woman. Let's assume that the reason she turned those men down was legitimate (assuming she indeed turned then down). Then, if you don't act more masculine, my guess would be that you will be next. That's assuming that what she is telling you is the truth. However, you are YOUNGER and you are UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. So, maybe that's what she is looking for. No too many fish swims in her pond...(e.g. men in her age group are more interested in women considerably younger). So, I believe she will want to marry somebody like you and her "I'm not interested in marrying" (although, she want's kids) is pure b.s. That's my guess. I might be very wrong too.

 

[Old Buck]

Having children with this woman is out of the question because she cannot have them. The topic came up about her having been proposed to by several men when we were discussing past relationships. I asked why a certain couple of her's ended because it seemed like, from her description of the men, that they were pretty good guys. She said they were at the point where they wanted to take it to the next level but she didn't feel comfortable with it so the relationship ended. Although insecurity can be covered up, she comes across as very confident and down to earth. I find it a positive that she doesn't seem to care about marriage because neither do I. Because I do have children, my legacy is secure and marriage isn't important to me. Someone made the comment that I seem to be afraid of losing my assets to a woman and only want someone in my income bracket. That is true. My ex-wife tried her hardest to ruin me financially and I am not interested in being some girl's meal ticket after I have worked hard to get where I am. Any man who doesn't understand that hasn't been through an expensive, no-holds barred divorce and quite frankly isn't qualified to discuss it. I posted to see if someone on this board had more experience than me dating older women but a wide range of interesting points have been raised. Some need clarifying. One of those is who is the prize and who is in control. That would be me on both counts. I have established to her that I make the rules and she is fully aware that I am very capable of spending my time with younger broads. She has told me more than once she is thankful she met someone who makes her feel excited and full of anticipation after years of dating men (both older and younger than her) who failed to really interest her. I know women can talk B.S. also, but her actions coincide with her words. She is hot enough to have any man she wants, except those on this board who refuse to date a woman over the age of 30. However, I have been careful not to shower her with comments about how wonderful she is. Apparently that strategy has worked because she almost broke things off between us last week because she said I was "hot and cold" and she was afraid of getting hurt. I have gathered she is used to having the upper hand in relationships and I think that is why she finds me so intriguing. She says no one has ever figured her out as quickly as I did and that seems to amaze her. A couple of you guys are giving me grief about the term "soulmate". She used that word in describing how she felt about me and I just repeated it, unaware I would get ripped to shreds. In closing, I am at the point where I would like to be in an LTR with the right woman who won't try to push me into marriage. At 38, between work and the children, who I have custody of, it's hard to find the time and energy to date multiple women. Also, I am not near a major metro area such as Dallas or Atlanta, which has a unlimited number of single, career women without a ton of baggage. This girl has no negatives I can see as of yet and to those of you who think I should drop her because she is 42, I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Women who take care of themselves can look good indefinitely and besides, as long as we neither one care about marriage, one phone call is all it takes to break it off and be back on the prowl.

 

[Latinoman]

Although insecurity can be covered up, she comes across as very confident and down to earth. I find it a positive that she doesn't seem to care about marriage because neither do I.

All of them come as very confident and down to earth. But the fact is...if you come into the relationship KNOWING what to expect (based on statistics and the "norm" - don't buy the "but she is out of the norm" crap), you can see those things well. I'm currently seeing one that is about the same age as yours. I am doing it for a number of reasons...the main one being that I just got divorced and want to take a break from "sarging", while I focus on my children.

And trust me...your woman wants to get married. You and I are perfect candidates for marriage. Women know that. She knows very well that if she uses the "M" word, she will scare you. Therefore, expect one of those "switch" things women typically do later in a relationship. Trust me on this..."sex" is their best weapon. The "sexual" security is another myth. Most of those women are near menopause. Once they reach menopause, their sexual desired can go to ZERO (not their fault, just hormonal). Now, the reason they are willing to do more "sexually" is this: that's the only way they can compete with the younger women. You have to know those things BEFORE you decide to get seriously involved with any woman.

I notice you RATIONALIZE everything she does. My question is...then why come in here and ask for advice if you only want to hear certain things?

Some need clarifying. One of those is who is the prize and who is in control. That would be me on both counts. I have established to her that I make the rules and she is fully aware that I am very capable of spending my time with younger broads.

She is in control. You see? You are the one going to message boards asking questions. She is NOT. Do you see me coming into this message board and asking what to do with my older girlfriend? Nope. Why? Because I am certainly in control. See the difference?

She has told me more than once she is thankful she met someone who makes her feel excited and full of anticipation after years of dating men (both older and younger than her) who failed to really interest her.

I'm sure she has said the same to other men. Not all...but some. Especially in the early stages. Now, if she says that to you...hmmmm...6 months into the relationship...then I can see that. Another thing, you use the "soulmate" and "connection" terminology. You don't strike me as a man that is any different than other men as to get such a high interest in a woman this early in a relationship like to bt categorized way above them. Are you a "bad boy" in a suit? Here is my guess: she wants to MARRY you.

She is hot enough to have any man she wants.

In YOUR eyes, she is the prize. Listen, fix that mentality or risk gotten dumped for another man (and she can and will do that if you don't change that mentality and the oportunity arises). She is 42 and very succesful in her career (e.g. put her careers first). And she is divorced. Trust me... her "fish pool" for very good men has narrowed considerably. She is not 28. She is not 29. She is not even 30. She is "hot" enough to get laid. In fact, ANY woman can get laid, regardless of age. The issue here is RELATIONSHIP.

Apparently that strategy has worked because she almost broke things off between us last week because she said I was "hot and cold" and she was afraid of getting hurt. I have gathered she is used to having the upper hand in relationships and I think that is why she finds me so intriguing. She says no one has ever figured her out as quickly as I did and that seems to amaze her.

She almost broke things, because that's a "control" thing. She didn't want to break it...she wanted to make you THINK that she COULD break it anytime she wanted too. Something that I used to use in the past. Something my current girlfriend has used too on me...to quickly learn that is not going to work. And why is she afraid of getting hurt? You said it...she is not "interested in marriage". (I like when they try the "vulnerable" approach. It always work). Hmmmm...does it make sense? And by the way...you have NOT figured her out yet.

A couple of you guys are giving me grief about the term "soulmate". She used that word in describing how she felt about me and I just repeated it, unaware I would get ripped to shreds.

She is a woman. She is supposed to use it. In fact, if you ever use that crap word, use it when you try to get in the pants of a woman (some fall for that crap). Don't use it when you communicate with Alpha males. Furthermore, why if she does NOT want to marry...she is using the "soulmate" word?

At 38, between work and the children, who I have custody of, it's hard to find the time and energy to date multiple women. Also, I am not near a major metro area such as Dallas or Atlanta, which has a unlimited number of single, career women without a ton of baggage.

THAT I understand. Trust me...I understand you 100% in this particular case. And I sympathize with you in this particular issue.

This girl has no negatives I can see as of yet and to those of you who think I should drop her because she is 42

That's the main issue in here. She has PLENTY of negatives. EVERY woman has negatives. Maybe they are not as bad as other women in that age group. But they are worst than MOST women in the 28-31 age group. Furthermore, you refuse to see them. I see them. I acknowledge them. And I make my decisions understanding perfectly the consequences of my decision. You are not doing that. You are trying to live a fairy tail. That's the issue.

I'm not preaching against dating or even marrying older women. I'm preaching that you MUST understand the consequences of doing such act. You still, should pick a woman based on what you want in life and how she fits into those plans (including values, sexuality, career/retirement goals, children, etc.).

Women who take care of themselves can look good indefinitely

When you are 45, she will be almost 50. Make up, surgery, and that crap does miracles. And menopause is something that NO WOMAN can control. That's why when they suffer of menopause, sexually speaking is a balance, because men are also decreasing sexually (assuming they are 10+ years older than them). That's nature.

besides, as long as we neither one care about marriage, one phone call is all it takes to break it off and be back on the prowl.

Don't try and B.S. us. If she dumps you today...you would go back to her crying.

 

[Old Buck]

Interesting analysis, Latinoman. You raise some questions that I will have to take into account if the relationship with this girl continues to progress. There are other opinions you have expressed I that I don't agree with but they could turn out to be right on the money as well. I will dispute two points you made, the first being about who is in control. I posted on this board for one reason only: I have had little experience with older women beyond the proverbial one night stand. I sought insight from someone who has been there and done that. While I know it is a losing battle trying to predict what a woman will do, it never hurts to get info from someone who has taken the same fork in the road. I have never looked at this message board as a place to post only if one has a perceived problem with a woman, but rather as somewhere men can exchange information and share experiences. The second point, which I find rather amusing, is the line about if she dumped me today I would go crying back to her. While I will admit that up until my mid-20's I had many AFC tendencies, I have NEVER went crying back to a woman when I was dumped. For one thing, I was the one who usually broke things off and also, I subscribe to the theory of "never let 'em see you sweat. Even on those occassions when I wanted to act like a pvssy and beg to be taken back, I didn't. It's hard to really know a person's character on this board so I will overlook that comment. Time may prove you right in every other respect but that last one will never come to pass.

 

[Latinoman]

sought insight from someone who has been there and done that. While I know it is a losing battle trying to predict what a woman will do, it never hurts to get info from someone who has taken the same fork in the road.

That's actually a good point. And I'm very interesting on your experience as it develops. So, please...keep us inform. In fact, disregard my previous comment and ask questions or share ideas.

I have NEVER went crying back to a woman when I was dumped.

Some peope go back "crying"...and they do it for a "manipulative" reason. In another words, they were not crying for real. What they truly were doing was making her guard go down...and eventually: BOOM. A lot of manipulative players use that technique.

Now, if she dumps you (my girlfriend) did that once or twice at the begining...you can actually tell her: Nope. That's not begging. That's actually telling her that the relationship is not over. Of course, you can do that in a way that is "nice". "Crying" = BEGGING. THAT is the part that is WRONG. You should never BEG affection from anyone. But you can certainly put pride aside and discuse the "why do you want to end things?" discussion. That helps you understand if she is using this as a manipulative tool or as a way of crying for attention. If she TRULY wanted to dump you...she would have done that long time ago or would have started "sarging" for another man.

The other points in my post are very valid and you should strongly consider them.