okay i have a question

[backbreaker]

seriously, i was sitting here and this just popped in my mind.

We here ackloweldge that we don't like feminism. I don't like it, it's not sexy and it ****s up relationships. This is all true.

So, hypothetically speaking, say you take a woman out to dinner, shouldn't you pay for the dinner?

This is purely hypothetical. i'm not a dinner date guy, but isn't' it a tad bit hypocritical to say we do not like feminism, yet at the same time, demand a woman to pay her half? isn't that like saying women shouldn't work the same jobs as men, then get mad when your GF can't pay the car bill?

Now yes, you shouldnt' be taking a woman you aren't laying it to out to dinner i get that.. but hell, replace dinner for put put golf it's the same principle.

thoughts?

I've always paid.. my thing is, and i've always went by this, if i am a woman and i ask for your time, i will pay, no questions asked.

if a woman mentions she wants to go out, i expect her to pay her half.

So if i'm sitting at home and a woman i called me that i went out with last week and says she wants to go to get coffee and then maybe go bowling, i fully expect for her to pay for her own coffee and her shoes and her ball and her 2-3 games we bowl.

If I call a woman and say be ready we are going out, she should not have to bring her pocket book, that's how i have rolled when i am on the dating scene


anyway, thoughts?

 

[DangNammit]

I used to always pay... not anymore. I agree that if you ask her out, be prepared to pay. I think a woman is a class-act if she offers to pay her share... it's been my experience that most don't even offer.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I have no problem paying for her dinner, if she gives up the pvssy. It's kind of like buying dessert, for me.

 

[jafyk]

Well, I think the first time you go out with her it's a gesture on your part to pay for her. Even though we have equal rights theses days and what not. If you don't pay she judges you by this.
if she invites you out, then she should pay for herself, although a lot of women think that just because they are going out with you, that entitles them to free stuff...in this case I think it's an assumption on her part that you'ill pay and on yours that she'd pay for herself. I think it's something both people should discuss without it being awkward. I've met girls that I've paid for and who have paid for me as well.

 

[jophil28]

The financial division on dates is a great "test" of any new woman.
THe way that she deals with the costs of going out together in the first month or so will tell you a TON about her expectations and her sense of entitlement.

BB wrote about his experiences, and his closely mirror mine.

The person who initiates or sets up the date should pay at least half of the bill.
Having said that I look to a new prospect to get us a couple of drinks or late coffee even if I have invited her out , paid for dinner and do the driving.

 

[SoldMySoul]

My neighbor is a good looking older lady and hits on me from time to time as I do her. Earlier tonight she mentioned us going out to eat and plainly pointed out to her on her dime!!!!

Whoever asks pays!!!! Since the majority of the time a man does the asking he is the one that pays.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I've always paid.

Me too. I will bet the price of a cheap Chinese dinner that whatever girl I am dating is not trying to just scam me out of a free meal. If I am wrong, then I am only out the fifteen or so bucks for her meal, and if she bolts then it's my fault for being a bad judge of character.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

If I ask, I always pay.

It's also been my experience that whenever girl makes a move to split the bill, at least on the first couple of dates, she's trying to keep you at arms length. I usually lose interest after that.

Once after a couple dates with this one girl, she called and suggested we get together. We met, we had a couple drinks, and then she made no move to pay, despite being the one who initiated the date.

That was the last I ever saw of her, as I lost all interest after that.

My attitude is that I'm paying, and I'm choosing where we go. If she doesn't like it, then she doesn't need to go along.

 

[Kailex]

Well, first of all, my first date is ALMOST NEVER dinner.
And if she insists that it should be dinner, that's an automatic NEXT from me. I've had it happen in the past few weeks and it was no skin off my teeth to dismiss a woman based on that.

BUT, if it were to happen, first date, I'd most likely pay DEPENDING on the circumstances.

I never deal with absolutes, so I can't say there's a gold standard on which I go by for dinner dates. The circumstances are never the same when asking a woman out on a date, let alone a dinner date. If I make the first move to ask and there's a restaurant I want to go to, then I'll pay. Other than that, there's no air-tight iron clad rule for me.

 

[zekko]

We here ackloweldge that we don't like feminism. I don't like it, it's not sexy and it ****s up relationships. This is all true.

So, hypothetically speaking, say you take a woman out to dinner, shouldn't you pay for the dinner?

That's a good point, Backbreaker. You're exposing a little bit of hypocrisy that goes on here, well thought out. I suppose the answer is that since women insist on feminism, and it IS here, they should pay their share (for those who don't think you should ever buy a girl dinner).

It's interesting that so many guys in this thread are okay with buying dinner. Usually you hear stuff like "Let the b!tch pay for her own food". But I guess that's mostly the younger guys over on the general forum. It probably doesn't bother the Mature Men over here so much. I know I could care less, this is definitely not a subject I feel passionately about. The younger guys seem to get very angry over it. Maybe it's the different upbringing. Or the rising cost of meals.

 

[squirrels]

I always pay on dates.

While it sounds "chumpish", bear in mind that I don't take a girl anywhere ridiculously expensive on a first date. A couple of games of bowling or a round of mini-golf is not a big expenditure for me. If she offers to go "dutch", I'll let her, but it's not necessary.

And...here's the big thing...I DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING in return. That is where most guys get burned by the whole "paying her way" thing. They act like the more money they spend on the girl, the more she OWES him some affection in return.

If a guy pays for a girl and then acts like, "I just paid your way...what are you gonna do for ME", it puts IMMENSE pressure on the girl. Any "good girl" is going to hate you for making her so uncomfortable. Any "bad girl" is going to abuse it, use you for all you're worth, then leave you hanging with blue-balls.

I believe in generosity on a "pay-it-forward" basis, with no obligation. If I do something for you or give you something, it's because I felt like doing it, not because I owe you anything and not because I expect you to owe ME anything. Continued lack of recpirocity will sometimes be met with less of my time, but I understand some people just can't afford to drop money.

In fact, when I go out with friends, when they start haggling over how to split the check, if the debate lasts too long, I'm the guy who will throw in a couple extra bucks just to settle the dispute...of course, not without giving them a little sh*t for what I call, "dreidel-fighting". (you figure out the off-color reference)

Now...on a "first date", if I go out with a girl to the pool-hall, I'll usually pay for the pool and maybe the first drink. After that, if she decides she wants to throw down shots...she's on her own. I'll send HER to the bar to buy drinks for ME.

So how do you screen out girls who are just using you for a free meal once in a while? You pay attention to how they react to you. Are they GOOD COMPANY? Do you enjoy spending time with them? Are they engaged with you in conversation and in the mutual activity? Do they seem to enjoy your presence? Do you enjoy theirs?

A girl who's just using you for a meal is going to bore the ever-living sh*t out of you at dinner...she'll have little to say and she'll answer everything a vacuous, less-than-interested way. You'll end the dinner thinking, "meh, that was lame". And then you just don't bother calling her for date #2.

Same way in a bar you can tell the difference between a girl who wants to hook up with you and one who just wants to bum drinks off you. It's basic social dynamics.

 

[Jeffst1980]

The truth is that feminism gets blamed on here for a lot of unrelated problems, without being explicitly defined. Certainly all feminists are not man-hating lesbians out for revenge on the world, as some threads would lead you to believe.

The idea of social EQUALITY comes from feminism, and I don't think any one will argue that this is a bad thing. All human beings should have equal rights.


Now, where we differ is when we discuss gender differences --i.e. women are more emotional, men are more direct communicators, and the like. Some feminists acknowledge that this is the case unequivocally. Others believe it to be socially conditioned and just an aberration that appears due to thousands of years of patriarchy. But really, it does not matter the cause, only that they exist. This is the "first principle" from which all PUA game has sprung; if gender differences did not exist, the rules would have to be rewritten. Perhaps in another thousand years the more extreme feminists will be proved correct, and we will live in a gender-neutral society. However, this is not going to happen anytime soon, because ALL straight women are STILL attracted to strong, masculine alphas.

All the problems with divorce laws, child support, paternity cases, etc. should be blamed on the MEN that created and passed these laws, not the feminists. Men outnumber women about 5 to 1 in congress. The real culprit is political correctness in general, and how it has been employed in the legislative process, in place of reason. There will be a backlash against this soon enough.

As for paying on dates--I say do it, at least early on, because it makes her feel like a woman. It's hard to be an alpha male leader-type while saying, 'gee, so do you mind splitting the bill? All I have is a twenty." Of course, I won't take her on an expensive date early on, and I won't buy all her drinks. I'll buy, say, the first one for her, and then we'll each pay our way. That way, she'll still remember being treated and all those good feelings, without it looking like i'm buying her attention. Whatever you do, it should come off as casual and unforced.

I'm also against the gender-flipping in some PUA circles--men painting their nails, grooming excessively, trying to relate to girls by becoming more feminine, etc. While this will work on certain girls (young girls in particular), it never seems all that natural and probably leads to friendzone more often than not. If you "trick" a girl into giving you her number under the premise of going shoe shopping together, you are not really setting a strong, masculine frame. The videos of flamboyant PUAs getting phone numbers are meaningless to me, because girls will give their number out to anyone nonthreatening. You want to establish the male/ female polarity from the onset; this way, you will never end up in friendzone. Women do not hang out 1 on 1 with masculine men just to talk.

This is not to say be a macho d-bag and try to prove how manly you are to girls you meet; that's going to far in the opposite direction. You want to engage girls in a suave manner while implicitly stating your intent. Don't ever put a woman on a pedestal, but don't treat her as you would your guy friends, either. Make sure you are constantly testing her compliance; you should be leading her at all times, so that her job is simply to say, "ok." That's an ideal date.

 

[zekko]

All the problems with divorce laws, child support, paternity cases, etc. should be blamed on the MEN that created and passed these laws, not the feminists. Men outnumber women about 5 to 1 in congress. The real culprit is political correctness in general, and how it has been employed in the legislative process, in place of reason. There will be a backlash against this soon enough.

Not soon enough. I keep waiting for the pendulum to start swinging the other way, but it never does. Not just with this, but with all sorts of different tendencies society and bureaucracies keep moving towards.

I suppose it may have to swing back at some point. I'm just not sure at all I'm going to be around to see it.

The videos of flamboyant PUAs getting phone numbers are meaningless to me, because girls will give their number out to anyone nonthreatening.

Good point.