Ok, so I have officially hit a wall ...

[Firefly]

I posted this in the general thread, and then realised that this forum might have specific insights which would be useful.

Ok, so I have officially hit a wall ...
I am feeling so sick and tired of everything right now.

I have spent the last six years trying to make myself a better man. My achievements include:

* Getting into grad school at a top ten university.

* Establishing my own successful business (which I am now winding down to a part-time gig after a change of career)

* Becoming registered to become a health professional, and getting a position with one of the largest health providers in my country.

* Losing 30 kg (60 pounds) over the last couple of years. I am still heavy, but now people comment that I look muscular rather then fat.

* Getting a part-time position organising events for alumni and students at my university, where I get to meet a ton of gorgeous young women. I also have a ton of social proof - Because I have events which bring 100+ people to bars, many venues in my local area know me and the staff come out to say hello, offer me free drinks etc. I also get free invites to movie premieres, theatre openings, that sort of thing.

I know I should be happy with what I have achieved. But none of this seems to have made a bit of difference when it comes to romance or sex. In the last six years, I think I have had less then 30 one night stands and one f*ck buddy. Pretty much every one night stand I had seems to result in the woman never wanting to speak to me again. When I am interested in a relationship, the woman ends up running away when I express interest and f*cking some douche. Half the time when I talk to a woman, she loses interest in minutes and wanders off, or does not even want to meet up.

I am out of ideas. I don't know what else I can do. I want to just give up, stop meeting people, stop working out and just buy a g*damn XBOX and sit at home and play all day, which would probably have gotten me the same results over the last six years.

BUT I REFUSE TO F*CKING DO SO. I WILL NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO BECOME THE PATHETIC GUY I WAS BEFORE. JUST BECAUSE THIS ONE PART OF MY LIFE IS LACKING DOES NOT DIMINISH MY SUCCESS EVERY WHERE ELSE.

But I don't know what I can do to improve this one part of my life. I am willing to follow pretty much any suggestions you guys have right nowm because I have no f*cking idea.

 

[3countriesPlan]

Well you got everything working out fine but you might really be lacking in the se.x department. 30 is actually a pretty good number, most guys on this board won't ever get 30 in their lives. I've only had a few one night stands, usually the girls are all over me the next week wanting to gobble some d1ck, try to give them a better experience in the sack maybe. If that's not the problem then maybe you should stop banging the hoochies and go for better quality girls.

 

[Warrior74]

So you are telling us that you want a relationship.

Where are you meeting these girls? Clubs?

What sort of girls are they?

You say women walk away when you talk to them, what exactly are you saying?

Is there incongruency? Do you look one way and come off another?
Do you even know? Can you find someone you really really trust to be honest and discreet to ask? What is your real reputation?

In all of your improvements how much have you actually applied game on top of everything else?

Is your sex game on point? Do you know what your doing in the bedroom? Be honest with yourself.

If you want to identify a problem you have to ask tough questions and kill your ego to get the answers. If any of this make you feel angry or bad or defensive, that's probably an area you need to explore. That might be the problem and your ego is hiding it with emotion so you don't have to face those weaknesses.

 

[jophil28]

Is there incongruency? Do you look one way and come off another?
Do you even know? Can you find someone you really really trust to be honest and discreet to ask? What is your real reputation?

Good words from The Warrior.

I have always said that women need 1) an honest girlfriend and 2) a full length mirror.
And we men need the same kind of reflection from our good male friends.

To the OP.
There is something not quite "right " about your story. You should be beating 'em off with a crowbar after all the improvements that you have made. Something is still missing.
Perhaps you might post back about your "game" style.

I have a friend who is buff, confident, ****y and funny with women and always out there moving it along, BUT he cannot get a date. Why because he just "plays" his favorite alpha games instead of asking women for their number and following it up with a date invite..
HE just does not close the deal properly.
I have seen him spend hours opening and chasing a woman in a club and towards closing time he says to her," Soooo, when are were going out ?"
Guess what happens next ?

 

[window]

my guess is low self esteem...it will never come from external q's for e.g I drive a bmw, I have a good body, I've had 30 one night stands. Perhaps this is what you are trying to convey to women when you talk to them (which is a major turn off to them). On an aside note I'd never be interested in a woman who has had 30 one night stands ? it is nothing to be proud of imo.

My suggestion is to take up some sort of spiritual pursuit be it yoga, meditiation or just walking along the beach in contemplation. This will take care of your inner world as well as the outer and provide some balance.

 

[Firefly]

There is some great advice coming here!

Just a few responses:

1. I was not bragging when I mentioned I had about 30 one night stands in the last six years. Apart from one FB, they were pretty much all the sexual encounters I had. An average of sex five times a year isn't exactly something I feel like bragging about it

2. The majority of women I meet tend to be international visitors; either exchange students or other visitors to the city. I am not really a nightclub kind of person.

3. I do have concerns about my sexual technique; Having mainly one night stands means I don't really have that many opportunities to practice. Should I be looking at sex manuals, or are there other ways I can pick up my technique?

4. I was being emo and self-pitying when I said that women walk away from me. This was after two nineteen year olds decided to leave an event I was hosting after about five minutes, but I have since remembered how fickle girls that age can be. Usually I am very good at having conversations with women. I am finding that this is a problem though, as this often seems to make women put me straight away into the friend category. In fact, several of the ONS seemed to cut off communications with me after because they said they had seen me as a "friend they could trust", after a single night of conversation.

5. I do need work on my game. At the moment, I often use the exclusive invites I get to movie premieres and other events as an opportunity to ask women out, but I am already concerned that maybe seen as supplicating straight off the bat.

6. Self esteem is definitely a problem, My issue is I have already accomplished so much - what do I need to do now to make myself good about myself?

 

[Jitterbug]

6. Self esteem is definitely a problem, My issue is I have already accomplished so much - what do I need to do now to make myself good about myself?

If you're chasing those achievements just to impress women and get dates or relationships, you will forever feel both inadequate (because someone better than you in one of the categories can get hotter chicks) AND like you're wasting your effort for nothing (because some bum who has nothing compared to you can also get hotter chicks). Neither is good for your self-esteem.

Instead, try enjoying your very commendable achievements for what they are and measure them by their own objective standards, not by the women you pull (which may have nothing to do with them).

For example, I used to be fat & unfit. Initially I went to the gym to get in shape to attract women, just like any man would. Had I been obsessed with that, I'd be still measuring my success by how many chicks I can pull with my new improved physique, which is a recipe for disappointment. However I'm now enjoying my physical transformation purely on the strength gains I've made - and that is going by the poundage I'm loading on the barbell in each training session, or at competitions. Funnily enough, because my goal and achievements in weight training are not that of a typical gym rat (mirror physique + pulling chicks), women find my passion with weight lifting fascinating and always find excuses to touch & check out my body. But even when I'm not doing well with women (or especially when I'm not doing well), weight lifting still is a source of great passion & joy for me and always gets me in a good mood.

That's probably a long winded way of saying: try to appreciate what you have, instead of obsessing over what you think you deserve based on what you have.


Your #4:

A Perpetually Friend Zoned guy is often a good conversationalist. He talks to a woman's brain. My good friend is one of those.

A seducer talks to a woman's pvssy. Some of the really good ones I've observed often talk in W0manese - it's like an entirely different language that makes no sense and bores us men out quickly. Half of the time it appears that they are really annoying the sh!t out of the woman, if you view it from a man's perspective, but it just means they're really pushing her buttons.

Some men just have that natural talent, the rest of us try to learn that (which is called Game). If you're not yet good enough at talking like that, I suggest not talking so much to women. Saying nothing at all will probably make you more attractive than a whole night of stimulating conversation (congrats, you're now her straight gay-BFF). Every time you interact with a woman, try talking less and get her to talk more and most importantly, DO more things with you. Whatever you say must be with the purpose of trying to see how much you can get away with pushing her buttons. Keep a mental score sheet and see how well you're travelling in that regard.

 

[iqqi]

The definition of a ONS is that it only lasts for ONE night.

If you are looking for more than that, maybe you need to change your tactics and/or your outlook.

 

[Solomon]

Has anyone thought that maybe the OP is just bad at sex?

















(Not saying the other reason aren't valid but knowing what you doing in the sack will keep them coming back)

 

[RepM]

Pretty much every one night stand I had seems to result in the woman never wanting to speak to me again.

Why is that mate? My gut feeling says that's the problem..
Do you go for your own satisfaction only? Who's in charge in bed? You or the girl? Girls like to follow a strong man, but you prob. know that.
Do you pillowtalk to much? Do you talk about a relationship with ONS?
If you're bad at sex.. Ask for pointers, some of us actually know how to do it right.

Hell, I dont know. But if I were you I would look in that direction.

Good luck and never give up. Maybe you're closer than you think!

 

[Colossus]

It sounds like you def want a relationship.

However, there has to be something in your behavior or your sexual skills with these women that is putting them off. This is probably a multifactorial problem. I would consider the other suggestions posted.

Generally, if a woman is into you personally she can overlook less-than-amazing sex, for a time anyway. So I dont think that alone is the problem. I have a hunch there may some sub-surface desperation on your part that is sending out vibes loud and clear.

 

[Firefly]

I think Jitterbug's comment about confusing good conversation with sexual interest might have been one of the cruxes of my problem.

I am beginning to realise that so many times when I thought I was building the foundations of a relationship with a girl by spending a lot of time talking to her, I was in fact I was either boring her to tears, or at least simply establishing myself as a really awesome person to talk to, you know, when she was tired of sleeping with the guy who turned her on emotionally.

I *****ed in the past about female friends wanting nothing to do with me after we had a ONS, but I am beginning to realise this was my fault too. I framed our relationship in non-sexual terms through lots of polite conversation, and then when I suddenly made sexual overtures and got them into bed, it would have been a jarring change for them. By acting non-sexual, I made our relationship non-sexual, and they felt I had "betrayed" this relationship by changing it into a sexual one. Irrational, but that is how they feel.

So in the last two weeks I tried something different. When I was out with a girl, I did nothing but talk about sex. Incessantly. If the topic changed, I would somehow bring it back to sex. I would also constantly tease and ridicule the woman, with the express intent of getting an emotional rise out of her. I am quickwitted in conversation, so I was confident that I could do this without being coming across as "sleazy" or socially inept.

So far the results were:

1. Went out with an all-female group of acquiantances from my university. I maintained sexual and playful conversation the whole evening. I focussed most of my attention on a particularly snotty HB8, mainly because I didn't care if she thought I was weird and never spoke to me again. At one point, I saw her glance briefly at two guys on the street while we were walking to a club, and I said "hey, why don't you go talk to them and catch up with us later" and literally shoved her towards them and kept walking with the group so she had to come running after me. The change in her reaction to me was like night and day. Whereas before she never bothered talking to me when I tried to make polite chit chat with her, by the end of the night, she was laughing at everything I said and making comments like "what has gotten into (firefly)?". She also suggested we go out for ****tails when she got back from travelling, in two weeks time.

2. Drinks with an asian law student. Kept on making fun of her the entire evening. Ended up making out with her in the bar, and then going at it in the bathroom (classy!). Unfortunetly, she let it slip that she was still a virgin and I have this rule about not letting girls have a drunken one night stand as their first time so took her back to her apartment. Scheduled to meet up again when she returns from her trip (it is semester break here, so a lot of international students go travelling now).

3. Took a nineteen year old out to a movie premiere. Did the whole confident sexual thing. She ended up ending the night early, and not accepting my Facebook invite a few days later.

OK, so my approach may still need some work. . In my defence, she is very young and shy (first time away from home), so I may have come across too strong. I also heard from a few mutual friends that she said she had a good time that night, so at least I did not totally offend her.

4. Drinks with another student. I had met her a few times, but only briefly so I had not had time to establish a non-sexual vibe with her. I also met her mainly at social functions I had organised, so I had high levels of social proof. Ended up making out with her at the bar until she remembered she had a boyfriend who only left the country a week ago. Later saw on her Facebook that she said that she had "a great night out" with me.

At the moment, I am also changing the way that I talk to a 9.5 that I am currently platonic buddies with. In our last FB Chat, we talked about nothing but sex and she ended by saying "I dislike you" and ending the conversation. In the past, I would have panicked and apologised or at least tried to get back in touch. Now I am thinking any emotional reaction is better then no reaction, so will wait and see how it pans out. Am a little uncertain about this one as she is a good friend, but I have to be honest and admit I want to sleep with her just as much as being her friend.

So any thoughts or comments? Am I getting better, or am I heading down the wrong path?

 

[Jitterbug]

Much better than before (#1 with the 8 is gold), but you're at risk of appearing as a try-hard for talking too much about sex. If you're gaming inside a social circle, you risk damaging your reputation. All it takes is some cluey guy or some scornful girl, who wants to c0ckblock you, to bring that up and make you a joke.

Instead, aim to appear as a sexual man non-verbally. It's not what you say, it's how you say things, body language, facial expressions, touches (or lack of touches in some cases), the way you dress up (or down). It's sexual tension we're going for here. Movies from the golden era of Hollywood are full of examples of when the dialogue and the setting are not erotic, but the sexual tension is high between the couple.

And as you discovered, emotional reaction is what you should go for, the stronger the better. Intellectually stimulating convos have a way of suppressing such emotional reaction, which is why when you have a great time talking (as perceived by you) to a girl, it rarely goes anywhere.

You'll also have to fine tune your level of being sexual to the girl. For some (like the shy chicks) you have to dial it all the way down to build comfort and rapport first before slowly move it up.

All of this take a lot of practice so be patient.