Nice Guys & Jerks & Why You Need To Listen...

[Omen]

Some of you I am sure have read the books by Pook and KillaPetehog, or some other sort of book and discussion about this topic, but have never really believed it or listened to it. You think it is nonsense, and you think that it's the WOMAN you keep approaching who is the problem, and not you.

Let me tell you a small story real quick. When I was in high school, I never worried about any of this stuff, and for me, relationships just kind of happened.
"Hey Omen, I like you" "Ok, me too" Or..."So and so likes you, so you should talk to her." There was never any of this stuff we read about going on in my head at that time. I just had girlfriends.

I have been brought up with good morals, and have always respected women and have always treated them the best I could. What I was about to realize was that the way I did it, was the WRONG WAY, and that I had to change my ways real quick or I would be in trouble.

Not until I was about 24 or so, did I actually have to go out and get a girlfriend, or approach. It was always there, so I had no idea what to do or how to act. "Just Be Yourself" I thought.

I remember moving back, and decided to go after this girl who I thought maybe I had no chance with, but I wanted to try. We started talking, we went out to eat every so often, and hung out. Eventually this happened more and more. I always called, always did nice things for her, complimented her,and even took her gifts. YES, GIFTS. I would drop them off at her house before she woke up. Man how cool is that? NO WOMAN can resist that. Little did I know it was like a punch in the face.

We would go to the gym, hang out at my place and hers, i'd spend the night at her parents, eat dinner with them, and vice versa. We were inseparable. One night she even laid her head on my shoulders when we were watching a movie. I was thinking... Yes, finally she is coming around.

I did this stuff FOR A YEAR. Yes, for a year. I was the nicest guy in the world to her, and she felt REALLY comfortable around me. One day we were in the car coming home from her parents and I spilled my guts. I was like... Ok, if I cant do this now, it'll never happened. I waited long enough to let her feel how I was. Then the whole FRIEND deal came out, and we went round and round, and she said... I never felt that way. I asked her WHY she played me the way she did? I was like... You dont come over and eat dinner with my family unless you plan to be my girlfriend. I told her... Do you see any other girls I know coming over for dinner?

Needless to say I was beside myself and it all ended and I never spoke to her again, and haven't that much. I saw her yesterday, but never said anything to her.

I then thought... FVCK, I did everything I was supposed to do, and NOTHING. Maybe she was still messed up in the head from other relationships or what not.

So time passed....

I read more and more on this site and from Pook and Killa and all of that stuff about nice guys and jerks. I said... This cant be true, I just find the wrong women. (WRONG AGAIN)

I then thought... Maybe I should field test this.

What I did then, was I would be the nice guy as I was, but took note. Now I did this with girls who were 17 or 18 and around there because they were good practice since I would more than likely not have a REAL relationship with them. I even took chances and did this with girls I actually had interest in. BUT, I said to myself, i'll take that chance, to find out if all of this is true.

I picked out a girl at work, and then I always flirted with her, always gave her compliments, and did everything under the sun for this girl. Little gifts, notes, and many nice things. "Hey Omen, can you go get me that?" YES I WILL (CHUMP)

On and on it went. One day I overheard her say.... "Guys try too hard" I then asked her out down the road and NOTHING. I e-mailed her and she said nothing.

Damn, was it the wrong girl again, or were people RIGHT about the whole nice guy vs jerk thing?

Cant be I said to myself, so I chose another target at work and did the same thing. Nice as I could be, to her I had feelings, etc etc. Spilled my guts to her. Hmm.... Nothing again. She went after this guy who was a total D*CK.

GRRR! I thought.

Then I decided to totally change everything about the way I was. I said... I'm going to be confident i'm going to be charming, i'm not going to do all of this stuff i'm not supposed to do. If a woman says do this, i'll tell her... You have two hands, so get it yourself.

I will do this but still be GENUINE like suggested by the DJs on here.

I was a new me, and decided to approach with the new me and not the old me.

I chose another target and this time didnt play the nice guy I was molded into for so long that it almost stuck. I changed the whole "Be yourself" ordeal. With this approach, I still made a few mistakes, and when I did, I picked up on them, and tried to rebound. I realized I was getting a little more attention, and that the girl was actually chasing me a bit.

Did I find the right girl, or did I just HAPPEN to get lucky that this girl like the way I approached, and how I wasnt a little baby, or how I didnt shower her with gifts? This cant be right I thought to myself.

I dug a little deeper into more reading and realized that WOW, maybe I was just wrong all of the time.

After the approach, I never turned back, and never went back to the nice guy. I will STILL open the door for a woman and pull her chair out at dinner and give her my coat if she is cold and in a dress, but that is the GENUINE stuff. Not the CHUMP stuff.

I myself have realized that what was preached was true. I used to hate the jerks and tell myself at least i'll finish, even if it is last.

So the point of the story is that if you dont change your ways, you may get stuck forever. I know it is hard to change, but CHANGE IS GOOD. So for those of you who read this, and are STILL the NICE GUY. I am walking proof, and the studies I did are proof that that's the way it is, and will be.

If you stay the "Nice Guy", you will be just like one of the girlfriends she has. YOU'LL be the crying shoulder when she is sad and has problems.

The thing that made me change is that I had proof what I was doing wasnt working. I used to make excuses, and you can make all of the excuses you want, but it wont help. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

If you WANT the woman, you have to get on track with the rest of the guys you despise. Too many of us I think have it in our brain that being a jerk means slapping a woman, cursing at her, disrespecting her, and all of that. This is NOT what it means.

All it means is that you dont succumb to their every wants, and treat them like princesses and queens. When you realize how to change for the best, you'll be so happy you did. You'll think... Damn, why didnt I change earlier.

It was a hard road for me, and took me many years, but I am there. Nothing in life is easy, and we all learn from our mistakes. I made a mistake believing that the nice guy I was is what all women wanted. FVCK society and other people I said. Now, I am here.

It may not be the easiest thing for you to do, but if you dont, you'll be like all of those cartoons in KillaPetehogs updated book. DONT BE THAT GUY.

Anyway, I wanted to post this since it was a life experience and how I learned the hard way. I just hope others dont have to go through the same thing as I did years ago.

 

[micon]

absolutely correct stuff here! everyone who still insist on acting the same way should read this and start to make lessons out of this.

 

[Omen]

absolutely correct stuff here! everyone who still insist on acting the same way should read this and start to make lessons out of this.

And one thing to note about my life lesson, is that it takes time to adjust if you are not use to those ways. You cant expect to change overnight. You have to gradually start somewhere.

You need to pick something like confidence, or quit with the gifts and what not. Little by little you'll see improvement. If you have to test it, test it. Say you work with a girl, and you like her. She says... X, can you go get me a pop out of the vending machine? DONT. Use something clever to tell her to get her own pop. I've always said... You have two feet and two arms, so get it yourself. But I say it in a voice that isn't rude, but more like... Wow, a guy that doesn't jump at my every command tone. DONT try and do it all at once or you will fail miserably. And dont get too pissed if you screw up on occasion. I catch myself on occasion, and smack myself, or go... Dangit, why didnt I DO/NOT do that, or why didnt I say that, etc. You know how AFTER the fact you should have done/not done XYZ? It will happen, but improvement is improvement, and you will eventually learn from your mistakes.

 

[Joe The Homophobe]

Good post and congrats on behaving like a man around women. It is hard to change but most of the time the first step is to realize that what we think is "good" is wrong.

I like the point you made about "being yourself" just doesn't work. Many guys refuse to change saying they want girls to like them for who they are. That is a nice thought (but the poor fellas will remain lonely). There is no shame in changing your self a bit to attract women. Just like you change yourself when you go for a job interview (clean cut, dress well) you have to change yourself to attract women. Nothing wrong with being a little more unpredictable, fun, ****ier and funnier. These are all qualities that women love and you are only adapting to the situation. For a job you are on your best behavior because it requires it, for women you have to do other things which lead you to success.

Sure we would all like a girl that will love us for who we are, but if you are not getting any girls who will be there to love you for who you really are?

 

[nando]

good job bro, what's the killpeteshog book?

 

[Omen]

good job bro, what's the killpeteshog book?

It's actually the revised DJ Bible.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=122576

 

[AJTD]

Some of you I am sure have read the books by Pook and KillaPetehog, or some other sort of book and discussion about this topic, but have never really believed it or listened to it. You think it is nonsense, and you think that it's the WOMAN you keep approaching who is the problem, and not you.

Let me tell you a small story real quick. When I was in high school, I never worried about any of this stuff, and for me, relationships just kind of happened.
"Hey Omen, I like you" "Ok, me too" Or..."So and so likes you, so you should talk to her." There was never any of this stuff we read about going on in my head at that time. I just had girlfriends.

I have been brought up with good morals, and have always respected women and have always treated them the best I could. What I was about to realize was that the way I did it, was the WRONG WAY, and that I had to change my ways real quick or I would be in trouble.

Not until I was about 24 or so, did I actually have to go out and get a girlfriend, or approach. It was always there, so I had no idea what to do or how to act. "Just Be Yourself" I thought.

I remember moving back, and decided to go after this girl who I thought maybe I had no chance with, but I wanted to try. We started talking, we went out to eat every so often, and hung out. Eventually this happened more and more. I always called, always did nice things for her, complimented her,and even took her gifts. YES, GIFTS. I would drop them off at her house before she woke up. Man how cool is that? NO WOMAN can resist that. Little did I know it was like a punch in the face.

We would go to the gym, hang out at my place and hers, i'd spend the night at her parents, eat dinner with them, and vice versa. We were inseparable. One night she even laid her head on my shoulders when we were watching a movie. I was thinking... Yes, finally she is coming around.

I did this stuff FOR A YEAR. Yes, for a year. I was the nicest guy in the world to her, and she felt REALLY comfortable around me. One day we were in the car coming home from her parents and I spilled my guts. I was like... Ok, if I cant do this now, it'll never happened. I waited long enough to let her feel how I was. Then the whole FRIEND deal came out, and we went round and round, and she said... I never felt that way. I asked her WHY she played me the way she did? I was like... You dont come over and eat dinner with my family unless you plan to be my girlfriend. I told her... Do you see any other girls I know coming over for dinner?

Needless to say I was beside myself and it all ended and I never spoke to her again, and haven't that much. I saw her yesterday, but never said anything to her.

I then thought... FVCK, I did everything I was supposed to do, and NOTHING. Maybe she was still messed up in the head from other relationships or what not.

So time passed....

I read more and more on this site and from Pook and Killa and all of that stuff about nice guys and jerks. I said... This cant be true, I just find the wrong women. (WRONG AGAIN)

I then thought... Maybe I should field test this.

What I did then, was I would be the nice guy as I was, but took note. Now I did this with girls who were 17 or 18 and around there because they were good practice since I would more than likely not have a REAL relationship with them. I even took chances and did this with girls I actually had interest in. BUT, I said to myself, i'll take that chance, to find out if all of this is true.

I picked out a girl at work, and then I always flirted with her, always gave her compliments, and did everything under the sun for this girl. Little gifts, notes, and many nice things. "Hey Omen, can you go get me that?" YES I WILL (CHUMP)

On and on it went. One day I overheard her say.... "Guys try too hard" I then asked her out down the road and NOTHING. I e-mailed her and she said nothing.

Damn, was it the wrong girl again, or were people RIGHT about the whole nice guy vs jerk thing?

Cant be I said to myself, so I chose another target at work and did the same thing. Nice as I could be, to her I had feelings, etc etc. Spilled my guts to her. Hmm.... Nothing again. She went after this guy who was a total D*CK.

GRRR! I thought.

Then I decided to totally change everything about the way I was. I said... I'm going to be confident i'm going to be charming, i'm not going to do all of this stuff i'm not supposed to do. If a woman says do this, i'll tell her... You have two hands, so get it yourself.

I will do this but still be GENUINE like suggested by the DJs on here.

I was a new me, and decided to approach with the new me and not the old me.

I chose another target and this time didnt play the nice guy I was molded into for so long that it almost stuck. I changed the whole "Be yourself" ordeal. With this approach, I still made a few mistakes, and when I did, I picked up on them, and tried to rebound. I realized I was getting a little more attention, and that the girl was actually chasing me a bit.

Did I find the right girl, or did I just HAPPEN to get lucky that this girl like the way I approached, and how I wasnt a little baby, or how I didnt shower her with gifts? This cant be right I thought to myself.

I dug a little deeper into more reading and realized that WOW, maybe I was just wrong all of the time.

After the approach, I never turned back, and never went back to the nice guy. I will STILL open the door for a woman and pull her chair out at dinner and give her my coat if she is cold and in a dress, but that is the GENUINE stuff. Not the CHUMP stuff.

I myself have realized that what was preached was true. I used to hate the jerks and tell myself at least i'll finish, even if it is last.

So the point of the story is that if you dont change your ways, you may get stuck forever. I know it is hard to change, but CHANGE IS GOOD. So for those of you who read this, and are STILL the NICE GUY. I am walking proof, and the studies I did are proof that that's the way it is, and will be.

If you stay the "Nice Guy", you will be just like one of the girlfriends she has. YOU'LL be the crying shoulder when she is sad and has problems.

The thing that made me change is that I had proof what I was doing wasnt working. I used to make excuses, and you can make all of the excuses you want, but it wont help. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

If you WANT the woman, you have to get on track with the rest of the guys you despise. Too many of us I think have it in our brain that being a jerk means slapping a woman, cursing at her, disrespecting her, and all of that. This is NOT what it means.

All it means is that you dont succumb to their every wants, and treat them like princesses and queens. When you realize how to change for the best, you'll be so happy you did. You'll think... Damn, why didnt I change earlier.

It was a hard road for me, and took me many years, but I am there. Nothing in life is easy, and we all learn from our mistakes. I made a mistake believing that the nice guy I was is what all women wanted. FVCK society and other people I said. Now, I am here.

It may not be the easiest thing for you to do, but if you dont, you'll be like all of those cartoons in KillaPetehogs updated book. DONT BE THAT GUY.

Anyway, I wanted to post this since it was a life experience and how I learned the hard way. I just hope others dont have to go through the same thing as I did years ago.

Thank you Omen. I really needed this post. I'm still somewhat of the nice guy, gradually getting out of this mindset though. When you have been nice almost all your life it is going to take time to change but it is possible. Infact I lost my previous gf for being too nice, giving her compliments all the time, gifts, telling her "I love you" all the time. Never again dude, never again. I'd rather be a confident, Dominant Man, not a doormat or emotional tampon for women.

 

[penkitten]

good post!!

 

[Omen]

Thank you Omen. I really needed this post. I'm still somewhat of the nice guy, gradually getting out of this mindset though. When you have been nice almost all your life it is going to take time to change but it is possible. Infact I lost my previous gf for being too nice, giving her compliments all the time, gifts, telling her "I love you" all the time. Never again dude, never again. I'd rather be a confident, Dominant Man, not a doormat or emotional tampon for women.

No problem boss. You hear about the topic, so I thought it would help those who want to see a real life story. I know something like this would have helped me long ago. I would have seen that someone went through all of that, and that I probably shouldn't do the same.

It is a hard mindset. When something is burned into it, its hard to change that. And for me it was harder cause it didnt start becoming an issue till I was older. I just had girlfriends in high school, and then as I got older I really had no idea what was going on since I never had to approach or anything that is talked about here. I actually had to DO SOMETHING. And I just thought... I'll be myself. And being myself was that emotional tampon. I was the "too good to be true guy" The "I wish more guys were like you" guy.

I had an LTR for a year when I was 24, and I got the woman like cake. Her friend introduced me to her, we clicked, we went out. I used nothing on here. After this one ended, I saw that minus the friends around, and not being in high school, things were about to change. And did they ever.

But I suggest you practice. I STILL practice. Like I said. I'll take some young girl I work with, and practice on her. If I mess up I dont really care too much. I make note of what it was I did and fix it. I did this about a week ago. TOTALLY messed up but rebounded enough it went better.

You aren't going to get it right everytime. But make sure you dont be so much of a jerk you forget what it means to still be genuine, and be a gentleman.

For instance it was cold one day and ice was all over the car, and a girl at work and I went out at the same time and I helped her scrape her window. The weather was miserable, and it was a gentleman thing to do.

Dont forget there is a line you draw. You TOTALLY dont want to forget what it means to be the above. If a girl says... Hey go get me a snack, or can you go do this pretty please, and does a puppy dog face,or what ever, know that they are seeing if you will do their every move. Ha Ha... CHUMP she says... He'll do what ever it is I want him to do. He's like a little kid. DONT GET INTO THAT.

 

[slaog]

I learned the hard way too after many years thinking I was unlucky. I'm still making mistakes but I have managed to build up an understanding of whats happening and slowly I'm making less mistakes.

It's important to learn from past mistakes. Always beware of mood changes in women and try to analyse what you did or didn't do. Of course it's best to analyse this things after you've met. Just have fun etc when talking to women.