Nice Guy or Jerk? Who Has More Potential?

[:]

Nice discussion

 

[mahon83050]

NICE GUYS FINISH LAST NO MATTER HOW TALL AND HANSOME YOU ARE! SAD BUT TRUE...I AM A PRIME EXAMPLE!

 

[:]

"It pays to be a prick."

 

[Struggling]

Lets not be foolish,
We all know the jerk gets the girl.


Its stupid to not think so. It goes against reality.

Your friend in this dating game,
Struggling

 

[SomeGuy]

10 Reasons Women (who aren't Heartless *****es!) Date Jerks Instead of Nice Guys

- It's more fun to complain about them to her friends.
- Guys who actually like her just aren't challenging or exciting.
- When she does date nice guys, they turn into jerks anyway, so why not save time and go for the jerk in the first place?
- She won't get as emotionally attached to a jerk, so she'll be more in control.
- All the other women want them, so they must be worth having.
- Affection means more when it comes from a guy who doesn't normally give it.
- Guaranteed to cheat on her so someone else can endure his lack of lovemaking skills most of the time.
- No need to feel guilty for abusing or deceiving them.
- Jerks will actually tell her when they don't like what she's doing instead of getting mad about it six months later.
- She was looking for someone she can't trust, and won't care about too much, who will abuse her mentally and financially, but she didn't know any lawyers.
http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/datejerk.shtml

Is that the type of woman you want to attract?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Still kicking this post around. I have to admit, I've changed my opinion after a recent relationship.

I was a "nice guy" for way too long. Gradually I changed, or at least I thought I did. When a mutual friend hooked me up with my latest ex, I heard all the stories of how jerks always dumped her and hurt her. I was determined not to be a jerk to her. If anyone was going to get hurt or dumped, it would be me.

It didn't take long until I slipped back into nice guy. And from nice guy to almost AFC, again. Even after spending so much time on this site. I don't even need to go on to tell you about the LJBF speech I got after a little over two months with her. Two months of little sex, spending the night with her only twice, and lots of making out. I spent about $100 on her for Valentine's Day, after only dating her for about 6 weeks. The last week we were together, I even sent her a nice (not mushy) "thinking of you" card. I never said I loved her or anything like that, but I was still too nice.

I found that she had a history of dating jerks, even though she said she wanted a nice guy. Gee, I never heard that before. I fell for everything, and became a total chump. I got my heart, self-esteem, and confidence crushed.

SO, I've decided for guys like me, it's better to become a total jerk. You can only take so much of this $hit from b**ches before you snap and become a jerk. It's what most women really want anyway. Don't ever believe the B.S that they want a nice guy. I did one too many times, but never again. The next time a woman says something ludicrous like, "I wish I could meet a nice guy", or "I like nice guys" Just say ,"Horse-$hit!" and smile, ignore her response, and don't ever take anything she says seriously, again.

 

[:]

Originally posted by SomeGuy:
10 Reasons Women (who aren't Heartless *****es!) Date Jerks Instead of Nice Guys

- It's more fun to complain about them to her friends.
- Guys who actually like her just aren't challenging or exciting.
- When she does date nice guys, they turn into jerks anyway, so why not save time and go for the jerk in the first place?
- She won't get as emotionally attached to a jerk, so she'll be more in control.
- All the other women want them, so they must be worth having.
- Affection means more when it comes from a guy who doesn't normally give it.
- Guaranteed to cheat on her so someone else can endure his lack of lovemaking skills most of the time.
- No need to feel guilty for abusing or deceiving them.
- Jerks will actually tell her when they don't like what she's doing instead of getting mad about it six months later.
- She was looking for someone she can't trust, and won't care about too much, who will abuse her mentally and financially, but she didn't know any lawyers.
http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/datejerk.shtml

Is that the type of woman you want to attract?

Yes

 

[CasaNova 666]

Nine Breaker: I agree with you about nice guys finishing first because I am currently in a 3 year LTR with my girlfriend, and just until a several months ago, I have been the jerk. And guess what....I always finished last in situations. I admit at first, my jerk attitude got her, but as da LTR progressed my jerk attitude started ****ing up are relationship. She would alwayz do stupid **** behind my back because of me being a jerk. At first I thought, maybe this jus aint da right girl and maybe she is just a *****. So I tried to be nice, and I finished first. Her behavior of being a ***** stopped. But, I have been a jerk to her for so long dat my jerk personality crept back into the picture, and as soon as it did the same old emotionally painful **** started happening again. She would say, I did dis and dat to get you back for being so mean to me. Howeva when I was nice, it neva, eva happened. Our relationship is utterly flawless. My girlfriend comes from a family of Lawyers that str8 up spoil her. She gets treated like a princess, so anything less then a nice guy for her won't work. A jerk would never win with her, period. Short term, maybe. Long term, forget it. but, Nine Breaker, I do have a question for you: me being in this LTR and all....what would be your opinion on how I should continue this relationship...should I be the str8 up nice guy, or kinda mix them up. I told you a lil bit bout our past in dis post, so what would be your opinion on me finishing first with her and keeping this relationship brewing??

------------------
Sycho

 

[Wyldfire]

No woman ever left a man or found a man unattractive because he was "nice". She leaves and isn't attracted to lactating boobs. A nice guy would be miles ahead of the jerks if he just grew some balls and stopped being so needy.


[This message has been edited by Wyldfire (edited 04-20-2002).]

 

[stockholder]

Originally posted by Wyldfire:

No woman ever left a man or found a man unattractive because he was "nice". She leaves and isn't attracted to lactating boobs. A nice guy would be miles ahead of the jerks if he just grew some balls and stopped being so needy.

You're assuming every woman thinks like you Wyldfire. Not everyone is as understanding and tolerant (and you're not even that tolerant

)like you. There are some out there who do things that go beyond everyone's wildest imaginations. You couldn't possibly know what they do to guys because you've never dated them.

(and I'm not talking about guys here people(hate at least twice as much guys than chicks))


edit: agree nice guys should stop being too nice


[This message has been edited by stockholder (edited 04-20-2002).]

 

[lordclem*]

Originally posted by Nine Breaker:
Personally, I'd have to side with the Nice Guy. Why? The Jerk, although you may say he has confidence and the looks or whatever, is really in the worst position. His confidence is false, it is more ****iness than anything else. He lacks the feelings and the drives to care about someone who isn't himself. His confidence is hollow, and if someone should shake at the foundations of his confidence then the tower that is his self-esteem will surely crumble into dust.

HOW DO *YOU* KNOW THIS?
why will he crumble?he does not care what people think,she dont like him? NEXT!you dont like him, FCUK YOU.someone get in his way he kicks their ass or just ingores you/her/it and moves on

i know loads of jerks who get the best women,and i dont mean just in looks,smarts etc. and they do the bullsh!t cheat whatever and queit a few still want these guys after they have been dumped/dumped him(he goes back and has sex with her when HE wants,this girl also does some bullsh!t and contacted him over some really stupid thing) its amazing.
there was this really hot girl in high school,she would give none of the 'nice guys' or the smart ones the time of day.
then got and when out with the "jerk" who kicked her about for two years then DUMPED HER!
i belive the jerks have more potential that nice guys,its what i have seen. we are "held back" (or in place) by OUR rules and what we think we should be like.they move in the world by THIER rules.
tell me of a great man that was a nice guy.

and i belive that when nice guys find out that they were failing because they did what women told them to how to you think they (we,me) feel pissed .granted we tend to just get on with(after a while). but i belive deep in the resessess of us mind we feel royaly fcuked...these feels fuel the "never again" mentality.
jerks were gets sex while we wanked..now we are geting sex/ltrs by coping some of the things they do.
and some jerks ltrs were amazing anything this one guy done was simply blanked out by his girlfriend!cheating stealing drugs fights.might have got a little rocky but you know what SHE put in the effort and "fixed" them.plus they date more thus have more change of finding "that speical person"(if they exit)

 

[Flyguy3663]

I personally would have to go with the "Confident Nice Guy". I know for a fact that when you are confident in yourself and feel comfortable with yourself then women notice this and if they like the way you look then you should be straight. A lot of guys on this board hate to admit to the truth. And that is that "LOOKS DO MATTER" to women. Why the hell do you think she lets someone walk all over her? Cause he is good looking or had good confidence and dominates her. Women like to be dominated and controlled to an extent. I'm not talking about abuse or anything but they like to feel protected and like you are in control. As far as being a total prick to get laid. I dunno about that. In order to be able to treat women like crap and keep sleeping with them you have to either be great in bed or exceptionally good looking.

I myself am finally finding the ground in between prick and nice guy. I am nice to people who are nice to me or who I like but if I don't like them I don't bother with them. And the only time I treat a girl like $hit is when she is being a ***** or just needs to be put in her place. I don't consider myself to be an expert but I do know that women want a "Hott Guy" just as much as we want a 7,8,9, or above.

CONFIDENT NICE GUY wins over Jerk and nice guy

 

[SomeGuy]

Originally posted by Wyldfire:

No woman ever left a man or found a man unattractive because he was "nice". She leaves and isn't attracted to lactating boobs. A nice guy would be miles ahead of the jerks if he just grew some balls and stopped being so needy.B]

Women can kiss my personal arse. The one tonight wanted leather and whips. Aren't there any normal ones out there???? To bad she was rejected tonight. I like "nice" women.

hehe, I might just leave this up, hehe st*ned and drunk

( though it was funny )

[This message has been edited by SomeGuy (edited 04-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by SomeGuy (edited 04-20-2002).]

 

[WizardOfOz]

Nice Guy or Jerk? Who Has More Potential?

The potential is there for everyone of us.

Who will achieve the most?

The ones that want it the most.

Go make it happen!

(that was my 5 cents worth)

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Posted by Wyldfire:

No woman ever left a man or found a man unattractive because he was "nice". She leaves and isn't attracted to lactating boobs. A nice guy would be miles ahead of the jerks if he just grew some balls and stopped being so needy.

Just out of curiosity Wyld, what do you consider a needy, lactating boob?

With my last girlfriend, I only called her once a week. I only went out with her once a week. On a couple of occasions I even told her she should go out with her friends some night, instead of always going out with me. On our first 3 or 4 dates, I didn't ask for another date or tell her I would call her at the end of the evening. I wasn't playing games with her, I just wasn't sure if I liked her enough to date her again. I believe in taking things slowly, and can't see how that can be seen as needy.

Now, I admit this woman never had feelings for me to begin with, but tell me what you consider being needy. My friends tell me that I'm too nice with women. I fail to see how my behavior is "needy". I like my space in a relationship. I like to take things slow, and give the woman I'm dating her space. I am just too nice. I don't give women a hard time often enough, or play games to get them feeling things for me. I'm decisive, confident, and always have a plan for dates, etc.

If I were to change my behavior, which I'm slowly doing, then I would cease to be "nice". (by most people's definition) Why? Nice guys don't tease women. Nice guys don't give women a hard time. Nice guys don't play hard to get, and send mixed messages. Nice guys often turn off their sexuality. Nice guys don't talk enough, come across as boring, and generally leave a woman feeling nothing. In my opinion, these are the main problems of "nice guys".

These problems may cause a guy to be needy. They may stem from a lack of balls. But, lack of balls and neediness were never problems with me. *(I had the courage to ask out, and have relationships with women that most guys would never have the courage to even approach. Although, I have to admit my choice in women may be bad, as these women had reputations for dating jerks/badboys.)* To eliminate these "nice guy" behaviors, a guy ceases to be "nice". You can still treat a woman with respect, but you stop being "nice" when you do what it takes to get her to respond emotionally.

 

[Wyldfire]

Dr_Feelgood...

Being "nice" honestly has nothing to do with it. If you put the woman's wants ahead of your own needs or smother her with attention it's too much pressure. You touched on another big thing, which is being boring and dull. Do you like to be around someone who doesn't have anything interesting to say or whose company inspires you to really want to take a nap? Probably not. Women are the same way. Maybe you came across as being a bit dull, but I assure you, it isn't about being nice.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Thanks for responding, Wyld. As far as me being boring to this girl, it's a possibility. Even though, she said I was a lot of fun. We always did something fun and different on nearly every date.

I still think I may have been a bit dull to her. But, I disagree with you that this has nothing to do with being nice. I remember in one of your posts you stated that if a guy really wanted to interest you, he had to do lots of witty bantering and really give you hell. That's part of what I'm getting at.

True "nice guys" don't do that sort of thing. Jerks always do. That's why David DeAngelo's ideas work so well for nice guys. In essence, they give a guy a chance to be like the jerk, by being ****y and funny. But, he can still be a nice guy by respecting the woman and treating her well. This involves witty bantering, and giving her hell. I think this idea would benefit a lot of nice guys. However, some nice guys(like me) have to go to being an extreme jerk, first. In a sense, I think that this behavior makes one cease being a "nice guy", by the definition most of us use. It makes a guy either a jerk, or a "good guy". A real man. A good guy can be nice, but he's never too nice. Thus, you'll never hear anyone refer to him as a "nice guy".

Case in point, I have a younger friend who claims that he has had little social skills for a long time. So, a few months ago, he decided to become fearless, and just start saying whatever was on his mind. Needless to say, he put his foot in his mouth a lot, insulted people sometimes, and became a bit of a jerk. Result- he gets girls a lot now.

I'm taking a similar approach, but not trying to overdo it, like my friend. Sometimes, the most interesting things you can say, you don't. You might be afraid of offending someone, or an argument. This is a big problem with nice guys. In a way, I guess it is a lack of balls. You can start conversations, go on dates, and even have relationships; but, unless you're willing to be yourself, be fearless, and go out on a limb, you'll bore people quickly.

This is just one of the many things I've learned. You did raise some good points, Wyldfire, and I see that maybe I haven't looked at myself objectively enough. But, I'm starting to see things from a different perspective, and changing my behavior accordingly. I'm not being fake by doing this. I'm simply growing up and being confident enough to be myself, and put my needs first. Maybe we just have a different defintion of nice. Either way, whether we agree or not, thanks for your insight. It's been helpful.

 

[Wyldfire]

It's a very big mistake to think being a "jerk" is going to get you anything of value. It won't. The ONLY women who put up with jerks are women with low self-esteem. Any decent man will NOT want anything to do with that kind of woman. Jerks don't have any better staying power with women than AFCs do. They get unhealthy women who need chaos and someone to reinforce their self hatred.

I am not attracted to someone who is a jerk towards me. Witty banter and teasing is something I enjoy, but not if it's mean, hateful or insulting. I'll play along with a guy who behaves that way for awhile, but he won't be attractive to me at all. My fiance was hilarious, witty, teased a lot, was playful, very animated and outgoing...an extrovert. He was also someone who treated a woman very well. He would brush my hair, write poems to me, love letters, and all the things that the guys here mention that should make a woman leave you. I loved him more for those things. There was a healthy balance of those things...he didn't do the same things everyday so it didn't get old and he always surprised me. I never knew what sweet surprises were in store. As for his sense of humor...one of his favorite things to do drove me nuts, but it was funny and almost cracked me up while I wrestled to get free. He was a very big man...benched 500lbs. He would grab my face in his huge hands and try to pick my nose with a huge Cheshire cat grin spread out across his face. He was the nicest, kindest, most loving and romantic man I have ever known. He never had a problem getting any woman he wanted. He broke damn near every rule that is mentioned on this site, but he still never had any problems attracting and keeping women.

My ex husband is a full fledged jerk/@sshole/pr*ck. I left in in 1994. Since that time he has had 3 girlfriends. The first one was an alcoholic psycho and that lasted less than 6 months. He had moved in with her and she kicked him out. The second one moved in with him. She was with him about 3 months or so and moved out. He got his first girlfriend in about 5 years about 6 months ago. She lasted about a month and then dumped him. His father and brother don't want to have anything to do with him. He has no friends and every friend he has ever made he has alienated. He buys books like "How to Make Friends for Dummies". His own kids don't even want to spend time with him and try to avoid talking to him on the phone, he's such an @sshole. That's what the life of a jerk REALLY looks like...and it's not someplace any guy on here should seek to go.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I think I understand what you're getting at. While some of my problems with women may have been my fault, I've also chosen some bad women.

My last girlfriend was a 37 year old single mom. The man who fathered her child only stayed with her for a few months. She reportedly has had very few long-term relationships, none of them lasting more than a year. She almost always stayed with the jerks, and usually dumped the guys who treated her good, when another jerk came along.

I got this information from several reliable sources, after she dumped me. I see that the problem was probably more with her than with me.

Perhaps I don't need to become a total jerk. Maybe I just need to take more risks, be a little less shy, and just get a little more experienced with women. I still think that David DeAngelo has the right idea. And it sounds like that is what your ex-boyfriend was like. I don't want to become the so-called "man" your ex-husband was. But, the behavior of your ex-boyfriend sounds like something good and realistic for me to shoot for.

Thanks again for clarifying things, Wyldfire.

 

[SoSuave.com]

Moved to Archive. Reply there.