Newbie-Need some inputs

[rust&bone]

Hi all,

I wrote some stuff to a girl after talking for couple of nights.
I am an Indian. It was a traditional marriage alliance.And I opened up to her thinking she is finally the one.Acted like an AFC.

I would like to believe I am average chump but not frustrated because I never needed a girl to be happy.Because my basic nature is of a very confident guy. I was always good at sports.I am good at body language and just know when a girl likes me.I have been hit upon by girls many times.

The problem with me is I am looking for something which is very pure in terms of heart and soul. Kinda looking for a soul mate and not a virgin.For an Indian from India I am pretty broad minded.

I am 32, never kissed a girl and I have been in only two one sided relationships and yes I showed plenty and all classic AFC features which you can think of.Yes, I have been abused by both the girls.The first one was very difficult to come out of as it was my first love.Took me nearly 2 years to become normal.I don't drink or smoke.No matter how down and out I am, I don't drink or smoke.
The only reason I was able to survive the first two girls was because, no matter how much I begged and lost my dignity, I would walk out if there was fundamentally wrong in what was said or done by the girl.It's like my fundamentals were very sound on love and life in general.I would do a clean cut, no matter how much I was in love with them.

Looking back and going through the BPD threads, I believe both the girls were BPD's.I am 100% sure about the second girl.The girl was divorced..didn't believe in marriage or men.Had tons of male friends and was flirting, lying all the time.

I have been going through the forum for the last few days as I finally said to myself, to hell with the nice guy. I have a problem here and no one is going to solve this for myself except myself.I read the book by David Deangelo by the way. It was a revelation.I realised that I may be the nice guy and all that and may see the bigger picture, but the fact is girl's are just hard wired to behave the way they do and there is nothing I can do.I may fall in love with a girl in 5 minutes and tell her everything and when she takes me for granted, I will walk but the impression she will always have of me is that of a wussy. I want to change that.

I even checked if I am showing any signs of NPD, but realised..I love who I am but I have the balls to truly love another person. A narcissist would never do that.
I know I am not perfect and yes, I believe I have my own deep scars which I am not aware of.

So, I meet this third girl in my life in a traditional Indian marriage alliance and she was a very cute girl and she was as old as me.I liked her and fell for her because I felt she needed a shoulder and really needed someone to talk to.During the meeting, she was mirroring my body language and I felt she liked me too.It was a yes from my side and it was a yes from their side too.
But, then came to know she wanted to know more about me and whether we are compatible for each other or not.

The first night I talked was good but the second night I opened up to her and after that she showed the classic signs of ignoring me and it didn't work out after that.I wanted a closure and finally she said this to me"I don't feel it and I will not tag you around. So please move on"She did tell me,"Can I give you a suggestion. Never give too much importance to a girl".

I said thanks for being decisive and left it at there.
I finally sent her this SMS--
"
I wanted to say this to you...

I know where it all went wrong.
And I do understand when you say.."I don't feel it..."

On a humorous note... you shouldn't have read all those
"Mills and boons" stories.

I will tell you why...

See, a woman's mind and heart doesn't need logic.
It needs magic.

A woman is attracted to the personality,style,communication of the man...

A woman gets complimented often.It's all hard wired for her in her genes.And she just prunes men out before she decides, this one is for keeps.

If you ask a woman, what kind of a man you want...
she will say, I want someone nice, honest, sincere...yada yada..

But in real life ...that's not what she does or is looking for.It's far from reality.

Fact is a woman doesnot and cannot choose who she is attracted to.She can't help it. It's beyond her control.
It's a evolutionary process handed over to her over generations.

Let's take the example from your Mills and Boons stories..
You'll find something interesting... the stories usually start with a
male character that is wild, often abusive, untamed, and generally a not very-
nice kind of guy...Sure, by the end of the book he's usually calmed
down a bit, but you always know who he REALLY is underneath.

Attraction.Attraction.Attraction.It has no reason nor logic girl.

I realize that women don't really care if you're a
nice guy. "Nice" doesn't light up their emotions and make them
feel A GUT LEVEL ATTRACTION. What does make them feel it? You
guessed it... teasing, humor, unpredictable behavior, and that
magical combination of ****y and funny.

I do understand the picture you have in your head of your man.


It's not like I had a eureka moment now.
I knew the rules of the game and just chose not to play.


The first time a girl meets a guy she wants to know if she’s dealing with someone on her level. She wants
to know if you’re playing in her league. She wants to know if you’re speaking
her language.She wants to know if you’re comfortable in your own skin around her.

I know the way I acted the 2 nights I talked with you and I have my reasons for that.
I wanted to be honest and that was a massive mistake.


Nothing changes my confidence.Nothing... and I ain't a ass kisser or a wussy in general.

It's not like women don't get attracted to me.I shut a girl down on the 4th of this month, the way you did to me yesterday.The only difference was I was harsher.

It's funny when one can see the bigger picture.
Yup, life ain't fair. It doesn't owe us anything. You take what you get and you run with it.

We humans idealize a lot.
We say things like “I want a woman to like me for who I am”.Well, in the ideal world things don't work that way.
And that means you have to manipulate.

The Wussy is a manipulator. Even when he’s whipped and caving to the girl's
demands, he manipulatively pretends to be happy with “going along with her
way” instead of taking into consideration his own needs. He hopes he can
get closer to her and hold onto her by doing everything she wants.

The funny part is I am able to look at whats happening to us at a subconcious level, things you are not even aware of.
The way you thought you could see through me.


I guess that's enough theory for a day..
U and I.when words run dry.
She doesn't try.Nor do I.
We are on par. She just is.I just am
and we just are.
The twain shall never meet.And that's the way it is."
------------------------------------------------------

So that was that guys. I Know what mistakes I have made.
And I did go through that stage where I wanted the girl back.
But I don't think this relation will work in the long term purely because she comes from a dysfunctional family.
Her Father and mother don't get along and are living separately.She does drink socially and has a social life.
It's rare for a Indian girl not to get married for this long. Her father has a drinking problem too it seems.

she stays with her father.She did tell me she doesn't believe in marriage.And it was her family issues that led her to get used to drinking.
The only question I had was, if she was a really a mature girl she would have gotten married by now. And not put up with her father and mother.
I asked her, "How are you managing all this" and she answered,"I am taking it one day at a time".I feel she is depressed.

I found her very sensitive.It was like she can have past relationships but was
uncomfortable when I told her my past.Was it just jealousy...I don't know.She never shouted or disrespected me.
But I was the one doing the talking and she was just listening.She didn't reveal much about her.

I asked her," I don't know why you are the way you are and if someone somewhere left you cold and you ended up building a fortress"
She answered saying,"I don't think I can do what you are asking me to"

I am pretty sure, she has lot of baggage in there.
She is mature and knows the mating rituals..it seems she got played by a player who was better than her.Or she has other guys in the queue.
Felt she was unable to make decisions and panicked.She never loses her temper.I do believe she is a nice girl but I cannot conclude because I had not known her for long.

I don't want to go back and it's been more than 30 days of NC.As I said, when I cut, I do a clean cold cut.

Please let me know your opinions guys or ask me for more info.I fell for her because I was trying to be a savior I guess.
I know I can't save her.

 

[Gunner26]

Hi all,


I would like to believe I am average chump but not frustrated because I never needed a girl to be happy.Because my basic nature is of a very confident guy. I was always good at sports.I am good at body language and just know when a girl likes me.I have been hit upon by girls many times.

Sorry, but body language is something very difficult to understand, it's one thing to know the signs, another entirely to read them effectively. You say that girls have hit on you, did this lead anywhere?

The problem with me is I am looking for something which is very pure in terms of heart and soul. Kinda looking for a soul mate and not a virgin.For an Indian from India I am pretty broad minded.

Ok no worries here, personal preference, I get it, but you'll be very, VERY hard pressed to find a girl that you think is your soul mate. And although I'm pretty young I understand that a person you believe to be your soul mate one year, may well have changed 5 years down the line. My advice here is to really think if you can find the perfect girl, it's like that in the movies for a reason, because it's a fantasy we all wish to come true.

I am 32, never kissed a girl and I have been in only two one sided relationships and yes I showed plenty and all classic AFC features which you can think of.Yes, I have been abused by both the girls.The first one was very difficult to come out of as it was my first love.Took me nearly 2 years to become normal.I don't drink or smoke.No matter how down and out I am, I don't drink or smoke.
The only reason I was able to survive the first two girls was because, no matter how much I begged and lost my dignity, I would walk out if there was fundamentally wrong in what was said or done by the girl.It's like my fundamentals were very sound on love and life in general.I would do a clean cut, no matter how much I was in love with them.

32 and never kissed a girl? Were these relationships serious, I mean you got pretty hung-up on that first girl considering it took you 2 years to get over her, and you never even kissed. How long did they last? It seems that you got way too invested early on, acted like an infatuated fool, then she said something you didn't like and you left, after realising that you had acted like a complete tool. Not to be a downer, but they probably didn't take 2 years to get over you.

Looking back and going through the BPD threads, I believe both the girls were BPD's.I am 100% sure about the second girl.The girl was divorced..didn't believe in marriage or men.Had tons of male friends and was flirting, lying all the time.

I have been going through the forum for the last few days as I finally said to myself, to hell with the nice guy. I have a problem here and no one is going to solve this for myself except myself.I read the book by David Deangelo by the way. It was a revelation.I realised that I may be the nice guy and all that and may see the bigger picture, but the fact is girl's are just hard wired to behave the way they do and there is nothing I can do.I may fall in love with a girl in 5 minutes and tell her everything and when she takes me for granted, I will walk but the impression she will always have of me is that of a wussy. I want to change that.

Your biggest problem is that you fall for girls too easily. You've put her up on that pedestal before you've even got to KNOW her. That is naïve of you, it is also not love. I'm sorry put you cannot love a girl so soon, if you do I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with your perception of love. I'd say it was lust, but considering the fact you have never kissed a girl I'm ruling that one out. Perhaps you like what you see, she says some stuff you agree with, and then you project your perceptions of perfection onto her, before really getting to know her, and boom you're 'in love'

I even checked if I am showing any signs of NPD, but realised..I love who I am but I have the balls to truly love another person. A narcissist would never do that.
I know I am not perfect and yes, I believe I have my own deep scars which I am not aware of.

Ok this is just a weird thing to say. It doesn't take balls to 'truly love another person' it takes a lot of things, a willingness to overlook somebody's imperfections, patience, chemistry; but not balls (unless your using them literally )

So, I meet this third girl in my life in a traditional Indian marriage alliance and she was a very cute girl and she was as old as me.I liked her and fell for her because I felt she needed a shoulder and really needed someone to talk to.During the meeting, she was mirroring my body language and I felt she liked me too.It was a yes from my side and it was a yes from their side too.
But, then came to know she wanted to know more about me and whether we are compatible for each other or not.

So after 5 minutes you managed to figure out she needed somebody to talk to about her problems? That is the number one way to the friendzone right there my friend. Also why does her needing somebody to talk to make you fall for her? How do you know she was mirroring your bodylanguage and not the other way around, did you try to test your theory by leading her? Did her body language change to match yours shortly after you re-positioned? Did she take a sip of her drink seconds after you took some from yours? Was her body open? Facing you? I'm sure that you felt she was mirroring you, but it's one thing to figure out to see the signs, but another to get the context correct, and make an accurate assumption. Normally you will sort the signs you see to suit your own wants/needs.

The first night I talked was good but the second night I opened up to her and after that she showed the classic signs of ignoring me and it didn't work out after that.I wanted a closure and finally she said this to me"I don't feel it and I will not tag you around. So please move on"She did tell me,"Can I give you a suggestion. Never give too much importance to a girl".

Right there, this is where you should have stopped, and moved on.

------------------------------------------------------

Literally what the **** did I just read?!?! WHY would you send this to anybody? It's like an essay on attraction and logic. Girls don't want to hear this, guys don't want to her it. And the fact you tried to point out that you rejected a girl prior to meeting her was a bit of a AFC thing to do, almost like you were trying to tell her you were a desirable male, when in fact she can tell that you are not. It also suggests you are not in control of your ****, I mean who feels the need to send a girl something like this after meeting her twice? And if this was your masterplan to get her back, it did not work at all. Seriously never send anything like this to anyone ever again

So that was that guys. I Know what mistakes I have made.
And I did go through that stage where I wanted the girl back.
But I don't think this relation will work in the long term purely because she comes from a dysfunctional family.
Her Father and mother don't get along and are living separately.She does drink socially and has a social life.
It's rare for a Indian girl not to get married for this long. Her father has a drinking problem too it seems.

It also wouldn't work because you went overly AFC in your interactions with her, and you became infatuated after the first meet, you put her on the pedestal, and then acted like a chump on the second meet. Then you sent that stupid Email I'm afraid to say. The girl may have issues, but I think you have to look at yourself first to find the problems, there has to be a reason why you are 32 and have never kissed a girl, unless you are waiting until after marriage.

she stays with her father.She did tell me she doesn't believe in marriage.And it was her family issues that led her to get used to drinking.
The only question I had was, if she was a really a mature girl she would have gotten married by now. And not put up with her father and mother.
I asked her, "How are you managing all this" and she answered,"I am taking it one day at a time".I feel she is depressed.

I found her very sensitive.It was like she can have past relationships but was
uncomfortable when I told her my past.Was it just jealousy...I don't know.She never shouted or disrespected me.
But I was the one doing the talking and she was just listening.She didn't reveal much about her.

You need to shut up, ask her open ended questions and get her talking about herself, that's how you build comfort with a girl. hey like to talk about themselves. Nobody girl wants to hear a guy talk all about his life, unless they are his mother.

I am pretty sure, she has lot of baggage in there.
She is mature and knows the mating rituals..it seems she got played by a player who was better than her.Or she has other guys in the queue.
Felt she was unable to make decisions and panicked.She never loses her temper.I do believe she is a nice girl but I cannot conclude because I had not known her for long.

I don't want to go back and it's been more than 30 days of NC.As I said, when I cut, I do a clean cold cut.

At least this is good, you haven't started grovelling at her feet. Forget this woman, go out and meet more.

QUOTE]

See the blue, also I cropped a little, else it'd be too long.

Gunner

 

[Gunner26]

Also

1. Go meet some women, talk to all of them and start flirting. If you want that 'soul mate' go and find her. 3 girls in a decade is not good. it will also help stop you getting so damn infatuate with any girl you seem to talk to.

2. Realise that your behaviour is inherently AFC, your hope for a relationship involves you being able to talk freely about your feelings, this is something that will work against you the majority of the time, because most women don't want to hear about a mans struggles.

3. Never send a stupid email like that again to anybody.

4. Don't place all the blame on the girl, there are things you could have done better to ensure that she remained interested.

5. Body language is hard as **** to nail down, try not to focus on it so much, it detracts from your conversation skills as well because, unless you are trained in reading it, half of the interaction you will be thinking about whether her eyes looking at the floor mean she is bored of you.

Gunner

 

[rust&bone]

Thanks a ton Gunner.
You are spot on everything you said.Regarding that mirroring thing. Yes, everytime I was taking a sip, she was taking a sip too.
Yes, my basic nature is AFC and I am going to change it.
Yes, I did go through that phase of validation.And realised there has to be something fundamentally wrong with me in the first place and not the other way around.The first relation lasted some 5-6 and she would go and come back but would want to be a friend. Everytime she wanted to go, I let her go because I believed, if a girls not into into you, then she is not into you.Looking back and reading all this stuff I realise it's my fault.The second one lasted a couple of years and I did a clean cut.
See...my problem is, I never flirt or try to check out girls. I act as if I am holier than thou.It's time to break the cycle.
If there is anything I do right, it's when I am not talking to a girl and communicating with me body language.I feel as if I am being James Bond. I stare down a girl and don't back off if she is looking back at me.

The girl I put down was someone I never talked to and she fell for me purely on my body language. She said, she even recorded my voice and keeps listening to it.I know the times I could have taken stuff with a girl to a physical level with the second girl in my life. She was always touching... you know the kino thing.Squeezing my palms while holding hands.But, me being the nice guy, just wouldn't go to the next level even when I can read the signs.
Let's leave all that aside.. and as you have said, it's time to work on myself.

Update: I have also realised that I have the "Nice Guy" syndrome.
It's going to be an uphill task as that means I am showing a lot of passive aggression when things don't work my way.It's like I was so nice to her, what more could I have done.I realised, I have a lot of trauma from my childhood and the way I grew up.Never had much of a relation with my father growing up and at some point I made a 180 degree turn from him saying to myself,"I will never be like him".He was abusive and that's why I have ended up being the nice guy.

I can handle the girls part but I am not sure I can stop being the nice guy.Somewhere along the line I lost my masculinity. Need to work on that. This site has been amazing.

I have finally come to grips with my situation and believe I can come out being a better MAN.