New program: Need feedback.

[Fuglydude]

I've been planning a new program, as I've been doing the same stuff for a while now. The new program will retain aspects of my old program, but incorporate many new exercises, rep schemes and a whole new training day. Your feedback is appreciated.

Currently sitting at 5'8" - 180. Bf% (10-12). Would love to have a 500 lb deadlift and 400 lb squat.

Aims of program:
- Increase squat/deads/push strength.
- Maintain reasonable body composition. I know this will be accomplished by proper nutrition/sleep/rest.

* Aim is to to train 7x w/ weights per 2 weeks. My schedule isn't stable and can change w/ short notice so I need to be flexible w/ my program. I know my body well enough, and I've been training long enough to know when my body isn't ready to train again.

* In 2 weeks:
- 2 push/pull days.
- 2 core days (focusing on lower back/abs/obliques)
- 2 squat days.
- 1 Max effort deadlift day.

I'll only give the core movements on each day. I'll do accessory work as well.

On first inspection the routine looks to be quite tiring to the posterior chain. However, if I get adequate rest between sessions and "fill in" w/ the push pull day, I'm confident that I can make gains and really strength my posterior chain. I think I will have to go w/ higher reps/lower weights at the start on the core day to prevent too much exertion on the posterior chain.

Push pull day:

- Dumbell bench (3-4 sets)
- Dumbell row (3-4 sets including krok row)
- Dumbell shoulder press (3-4 sets)
- Wide grip pull ups. (2-3 sets)
- Reverse Grip barbell bench (2 sets) ... barbell bench gives me rotator cuff issues, but I can tolerate reverse grip bench.
- Will do ligher ab work on this day as well.

Squat day:

- Heavy squat work (ATG 5 reps) ... will only do 1-2 sets of low rep work.
- 20 rep squats (1-2 sets max)
- Box squat (2-3 sets... higher rep ranges)
- Weighted pull up (3-4 sets)
- Leg press?
- Can incorporate weighted dips here too (1-2 sets)

Core day:

- Zercher box squat (heavy - 5 rep range) (2 sets)
- ATG front squat (heavy - 5 rep range) (2 sets) ... I find heavy z and front squats really hit my abs.
- Romanian Deadlift (2-3 sets)
- Good mornings (2 sets)
- Back extension (2 sets)
- Side bends (2 sets)
- Other exercises?

Max effort deadlift day: (This can even be done 1x/month if I don't feel adequately recovered).

- Heavy DL (max wt for 5-6 reps - 1 set)
- 1 RM max pull (2-3 sets)
- Weighted dip (4 sets)
- Deadlift then Static hold (2 sets)

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[Quagmire911]

It looks like your trying to squash a lot in, and if intensity isn't regulated you may overtrain fairly quickly. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'd simply things down to:

Monday- Oh press
Wednesday-Deadlift
Friday- Bench
Monday- Squat
Wednesday- Repeat

Follow a 5/3/1 template for the main lifts, and then add in 2-4 assistance exercises. 2 complex such as chins/leg press/dips/rows depending on the day, and then if you want 2 iso's like skullcrushers/curls.

You could vary the assistance from week to week. You also could do variations on the big lifts. Sub in dips for bench. Box squats for squats. Push press, rack deads, whatever.

I read a Jim Wendler quote the other day, basically about him keeping it simple. That way he can make small changes and see results again.

He also says assistance is just that, assistance, and not as imporant as the big stuff. Yes it helps, just don't overcomplicate it and f*** things up.

And btw, if you want a stronger "core", get up to standing ab wheel rolloutsx10.

That's my two cents,

Quagmire

 

[Jitterbug]

I'd do 20 rep squat BEFORE your heavy squat, not after. After you've completed a set of 20-rep squat, heavy squats just seem easier. But do experiment with it and see which one you prefer.

Also, maybe do heavy squat as you'd approach deadlift. Do 20 rep squat for a month then backsquat heavy once a month, instead of doing both every week. That way your CNS won't sue you for abuse.

If you're keen for more exercises, add these two: powercleans and overhead squat (I'm alternating front squat and overhead squat). The former is fantastic for building explosive power (which helps everything including DL) and the latter is for flexibility & core strength & overall athleticism. They will make you a better athlete.

 

[CaptainJ]

Looks complicated. Maybe you'd be better off doing an already existing intermediate routine.

 

[Colossus]

Comments in red.

Push pull day:

- Dumbell bench (3-4 sets)
- Dumbell row (3-4 sets including krok row)
- Dumbell shoulder press (3-4 sets)
- Wide grip pull ups. (2-3 sets)
- Reverse Grip barbell bench (2 sets) ... barbell bench gives me rotator cuff issues, but I can tolerate reverse grip bench.
- Will do ligher ab work on this day as well.

Standing Barbell OHP is preferable.
No need to do "lighter" ab work. Hit 'em heavy 2-3x per week.

Squat day:

- Heavy squat work (ATG 5 reps) ... will only do 1-2 sets of low rep work.
- 20 rep squats (1-2 sets max)
- Box squat (2-3 sets... higher rep ranges)
- Weighted pull up (3-4 sets)
- Leg press?
- Can incorporate weighted dips here too (1-2 sets)

Too many squats. You're getting your higher reps with the 20-reppers. Pick ONE primary heavy variation and get strong at it for 3-4 weeks.

Also, 1-2 sets is not enough (with the exception of 20-reppers). If you're going to do an exercise do it hard and aim for 3-5 work sets.

Core day:

- Zercher box squat (heavy - 5 rep range) (2 sets)
- ATG front squat (heavy - 5 rep range) (2 sets) ... I find heavy z and front squats really hit my abs.
- Romanian Deadlift (2-3 sets)
- Good mornings (2 sets)
- Back extension (2 sets)
- Side bends (2 sets)
- Other exercises?

Again too many squats. The posterior chain is very easily over trained and you are overdoing it IMO. Back extensions are worthless. Side bends good but you need to use 100-150+ lbs.

Max effort deadlift day: (This can even be done 1x/month if I don't feel adequately recovered).

- Heavy DL (max wt for 5-6 reps - 1 set)
- 1 RM max pull (2-3 sets)
- Weighted dip (4 sets)
- Deadlift then Static hold (2 sets)

Too much for a ME day. Pull like this: 10, 10, 5, 5, 3, 1, 1, max....or something similar. It doesn't make any sense to do a rep-max then do a max effort.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

It seems like you are hesitant to let go of old habits and exercises. In a nutshell I think this is too complex for your goals and you could accomplish more in the same amount of time with the 5/3/1. If you want the eBook PM me and I can send it to you. It really does offer the best in training economy and gives you plenty of room for tailoring it to your current needs.

 

[Fuglydude]

Thanks for the comments guys...

Jitterbug, I've tried doing high rep work prior to heavy work. High rep work really kicks my ass and makes it hard to do heavy work! I did 20+ bodyweight pull ups one work out and when it came time to do the weighted pull ups (it was in the 90 - 100 lb range) I barely got 5-6 reps when I can normally easily crank out 8. As far as powercleans, I do them as a warm up, typically do: 65 x 5, 85 x 3, 95 x 1. I think my max is around 103-105 kg right now. I do dumbell overhead squats on occasion, often pairing them w/ pistols.

Colossus, I guess old habits die hard. My past routine variations have kept me in reasonable shape and I've earned tens of thousands of dollars from dancing when I was using those routines. I know its time for a change, but its hard to leave a program that has lead to that kinda cash! I guess things will change as now I am dancing less. Good points about overtraining the prosterior chain. Thanks for offering me the 5/3/1 program... I have it, and am in the process of finishing it.

Quag, my recovery is adequate even w/ minimal sleep when I'm on cycle, but things are quite different when I'm off. An abbreviated 5/3/1 style routine will likely be a lot better when I'm off.

Due to pre-existing rotator cuff problems, I have issues benching or doing military press w/ a bar. I do variations of these exercises w/ dumbells, and my body can tolerate this. I think I'll be okay to bench/military press w/ a bar as long as I start very light and progress slowly. I'm gonna say my 1 RMs for bench is 180 lbs and for military press 90 lbs. I will continue to do accessory work w/ incline dumbell press and dumbell shoulder press.

Here is a new proposed routine that follows the 5/3/1 template:

Military Press day:

- Military press (3 x 5) (follow 5/3/1 format)
- Weighted pull ups.
- Dumbell shoulder press.
- Bicep curl
- Lateral/anterior/prosterior dumbell raise.

Squat day

- Squat (3 x 5) (5/3/1)
- Leg press
- Lunges
- hamstring work
- Calve raises

Bench Press

- Bench (3 x 5) (5/3/1)
- Incline dumbell press
- Kroc row
- Reverse grip bench
- Tricep Push down

Deadlift

- Deadlift (3 x 5) (5/3/1)
- Weighted Dips
- Dumbell Side bends
- Sit up
- Other core movement?

Comments, criticisms, suggestions are appreciated.

Thanx

 

[Kerpal]

I think that looks pretty good... keep it simple. I don't know how your body works, but for me 5/3/1 worked great for my bench and deadlift but when it comes to squatting I need more stimulation than 5/3/1 provides. My squat plummeted while on the program. You might be different though, that program works for a lot of people. May as well try it and find out.

 

[Quagmire911]

That looks like a great start. Get the main stuff done, push your last set.

If progress is slow or you overtrain, you can cut back on some assistance. As you have said though, since you're on you'll likely get away with more. But I would deload every 4th week like he says, or every 4th wave. Also remember what he says- look at each assistance exercise and ask yourself why you are doing it. Is there or a reason? Not just because you feel like it.

You have said about your past program helping you stay in shape- I really don't see where the huge difference is going to be here. Your doing the main lifts, and plenty of assistance. Keep the diet clean and you will do fine. If anything, you could put on muscle if you eat more. You aren't going to wither down to 170 and become tubby though, relax. As long as the big 3/4 are there, your body composition is going to then be based upon your nutrition and your cardio.

Also I'd remind you if/when you come off permanently, you also won't wither away to nothing. I've read plenty of guys that do this and keep getting stronger. Perhaps more slowly, but it still happens.

Give it hell,

Quagmire

 

[Fuglydude]

Thanks for the feedback guys... I do like the simplicity of the 5/3/1 approach.

Quag, I'll have to come off for several years when I move to the states and basically until I get established, but once I'm done having kids and am in my late 30s/early 40s, I'm gonna be on for the rest of my life... Hopefully by then I'll have a 600 lb deadlift and 500 lb squat! I know I don't need AAS, but they definitely help things a lot. Funny thing is I haven't really changed my doses for the past several years... not sure why it keeps working even at the same doses. Most guys typically have to start increasing doses.

I'll be off cycle in a couple of weeks and will try out this new routine... mean while, I've got 2 more weeks to get to some new personal bests!

 

[Colossus]

New program looks great Fuggs. Simple, effective exercises---all bases covered.

I think you'll like the 5/3/1; it's just progressive programming---weight training 101. I made great natural gains with it.