Neil Strauss: The Game

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I'm starting this thread for a few reasons so please read carefully before you post here:

1) to see the reactions to my and other people's critique at Neil Strauss amazing pile of cr*p

2) to see if I could fill in the holes at the people who support his cr*p

3) to try and get to the truth of the book and why it was really written

4) for me to establish how this forum lays in regarding such beliefs

5) as an exercise for myself in logical, consistent debating

replied will be spread out over time for me to accumulate my thoughts over anyone's objections etc. . . So note that this is not just a debunking thread, but almost a stream of consciousness debate happening as well.

So to start off I've read about 1/2 of the book. As I read it I slowly realized that Strauss was talking cr*p, he was pandering to the reader. A reviewer call Dennis Littrell on amazon.com put it best:

The only thing being "penetrated" here is your wallet, December 20, 2006

Reviewer: Dennis Littrell

This is fashioned as the "bible" for pick up artists: the cover is faux black leather on which the title of the book and some artwork are imprinted in gold. The pages are gilded and there is a red ribbon sewn into the binding to allow the aspirant to keep his place for future reference, possibly in case he gets tongue-tied.

HIS place, note. This book purports to teach young guys how to pick up chicks, how to elicit the "doggy dinner bowl look," i.e., "the entranced expression a woman gets in her eyes when she is attracted to a man who is talking to her." (Glossary, p. 441) The underlying premise is that it doesn't matter if you are short and balding and still live with your parents. If you've got a good line and exude confidence and know how to manipulate people, the babes will swoon. You are not required to be an alpha male.

In other words, this is a book biz hustle aimed at ordinary joes who aspire to be Don Juans. I think what Neil Strauss, who previously coauthored a book called, I kid you not, "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star," asked himself one day was, how does the "average frustrated chump" (see Glossary) who has no money, no talent, no future, no looks, no build, no charm, and no education get what he really wants--that is, chicks in bed just for the asking? Well, he doesn't, he concluded after some thought. And then he asked himself the real question: how can I as an aspiring literary artist take advantage of this situation? What is it that these guys believe or want to believe? If I can tell them that their belief is true, then I will have them laying down cold hard cash for a book of pure unadulterated BS.

Bingo, it hit him! You gotta have real insight into the female mind. That is what they want to believe since that can be learned. Of course he would have to pretend to acquire some plausible techniques, like how to present yourself, how not to come on too strong, but firmly with confidence and a devil may care attitude, and how to conduct yourself, always confident, never, but never, needy.

And so, fingers flying over the keyboard, Strauss spun out a list of steps. Begin with a warrior's or hunter's stance. Therefore Step 1 would be "Select a Target." It's a game after all--that's the key psychology. Picking up chicks is just a game. They know it. It's high time you knew it too. "Step 2: "Approach and Open." Business-like. All the nerds in the cubicals will relate to this terminology. There would 9 more steps including Step 6 "Create an Emotional Connection," and Step 10 "Blast Last-Minute Resistance."

He liked that expression, "blast!"--kind of sexual and warlike at the same time. After all this IS the battle of the sexes. Maybe even "Blast through Last-Minute Resistance..." But no, that would be too blatantly sexual. Woman want it, but they don't want to be reminded of that fact. They want finesse, firm finesse of course.

Strauss spent some time with some rock/porn star type mentalities masquerading as members of a "secret society of pickup artists"--guys who live in places like Encino with names like "Mystery" and "Style." Right! Isn't that what some women want in a man: mystery and style?

Actually what they really want is value, of course, or as they say in evolutionary psychology, men with resources. And this is what Strauss discovered and why he named Step 3 "Demonstrating Value," which for the targets of his book could be taken as: you can fake it.

Mystery, who Strauss tells us is "producing Basic Training workshops in several cities around the world, due to numerous requests" lays out the "Sex Magic" in his "Mystery Method" workshop beginning on page 35. Some highlights:

1. Smile when you walk into a room. See the group with the target and follow the three-second rule. Do not hesitate--approach instantly.

4. Neg the target with one of the slew of negs we've come up with. Tell her, 'It's so cute. Your nose wiggles when you laugh.' Then get her friends to notice and laugh about it.

10. Sit with her and perform a rune reading, an ESP test, or any other demonstration that will fascinate and intrigue her.

And so on.

There is a lot of this sort of thing, some kind of technique or some sort of line that some of the guys that Strauss talked to used or wanted to use at some bar or Hard Rock Café on some mindless twentysomething. Clearly Strauss believes it's all about technique, and I would say most women would agree. But that's NOT the kind of technique they had in mind.

The book is also filled with lots of dialogue, obviously imagined or reconstructed from notes, the kind of dialogue you find in popular novels. In fact, what this book is, is a novel in the guise of being a self-help book. Doesn't that just scream best seller?

The best part of the book is the Glossary. It's a collection of phrases and jargon that Strauss picked up on his travels. I gave a couple of examples above. Here's another one, perhaps the central one in the book: "FMAC--noun [find, meet, attract, close]..." We used to have one similar when I was young called "the four ef's": FFF&F. That does NOT stand for "Fat-Faced Fanny's Faloon" which was the name of a bar in Hermosa Beach. Maybe still is.

Bottom line here: Strauss is a pretty good writer so this is diverting and somewhat entertaining if you're under forty. If you're under thirty and a card-carrying nerd it might get you to salivating. If you're a teenage boy, this really IS the Bible.
 
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Francisco:

I'm going to try and take this from a different angle.

Noob:

He was never an AFC, nor a PUA. That's my point. Neil Strauss is a con artist. You say it doesn't teach people anything? Well it does, because he's trying to reinforce people's beliefs in the book, so just for you here's Dennis Luttirell's line once again:

In other words, this is a book biz hustle aimed at ordinary joes who aspire to be Don Juans. I think what Neil Strauss, who previously coauthored a book called, I kid you not, "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star," asked himself one day was, how does the "average frustrated chump" (see Glossary) who has no money, no talent, no future, no looks, no build, no charm, and no education get what he really wants--that is, chicks in bed just for the asking? Well, he doesn't, he concluded after some thought. And then he asked himself the real question: how can I as an aspiring literary artist take advantage of this situation? What is it that these guys believe or want to believe? If I can tell them that their belief is true, then I will have them laying down cold hard cash for a book of pure unadulterated BS.
pure unadulterated BS sums up the book exactly.

Joey Jeremiah: you are one of those believers who want to believe what you want to believe:rolleyes:
 
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additional comments, added to as time goes by to keep thread going:

I was thinking what kind of person would want to read/believe in Strauss's book, so at the top of my head it would be:

1) socially awkward boys who have no understanding of women and think there is some magic key to getting anyone you want - after all it is just technique isn't it??!!!

2) men who have been humiliated and dumped by someone they are really into and hope to use what is expounded here to "get their revenge" at the woman who dumped them, sort of like saying: "look, I can get someone better looking than you!"

3) ugly men who would pay for any kind of hope that works like this would give them

4) average males who want to up their "game" and be able to get someone hotter since this book give them that - or so it claims

. . . . and so on, you get the idea

There are a lot of very messed up people in this forum, and also those who haven't got a clue, but before we proceed with further let me lay out my simplistic beliefs, anyone can freely comment:

1) you cannot force anyone to want to want to f*ck you, they either do or they don't. And it's not down purely to technique (more on this later), it is heavily based on looks. If you don't like that please look around you and question yourself about your past history. I've heard about all these cliches about the fat. balding guy with a supermodel and the reason he's with her is because he's not got game. But you miss a point: he is NOT you, and you don't know what extend their relationship is. Are you not using a cliched example in order to give you hope?

2) women are not, contrary to what I said previously, a numbers game. It's much more difficult to explain than that. But it is not a numbers game. What it is, is a game where they choose you and you choose them, nothing more. Also, following the other posters, nobody actually loves you for what you are, everyone uses everyone else. So if someone wants to be with you, it because you are like a drug to them, you make them feel good, they want to f*ck you etc. . . People cannot help these feelings, because your feelings are what makes you the person you are, even if they get you in trouble, and even if they cause pain to yourself or others. For example I could have a oneitis over a very pretty girl, but if she doesn't feel the same nothing is going to happen: her feelings have caused me pain, even though she may not have meant it. There are other posters here who would say that, following Strauss, I could have changed her feelings, could have made her want to f*ck me, if I knew how to act and what to do. I find the latter idea utterly retarded and offensive as we go onto the next point
 
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cont . . .

3) from a sample of the female population, we at best probably are only attracted to about less than 1% of them. The rest are old, fat, ugly, retarded, crazy, etc or a combination of the whole mix. I agree that not everyone goes for the same women, but we can all sort of agree on who is attractive and who is not. We can also agree that this percentage of the attractive and SINGLE women is relatively small, and always will be. So from a statistical point of view we can therefore infer that the chances of getting one of these attractive women in having feelings for us is necessarily non existent - you'd have to be very lucky, or extremely wealthy/good looking. The latter point is over looked because Strauss's believers would argue that you just have to do certain things. but I could argue what's to stop these other people doing certain things who read the same book?

4) more importantly, whether you liked it or not, you yourself are a product of evolution. You may not like that, but with it implies that the process that got you into being in the world was not random. It implies that your mum selected your dad via a deeply prejudiced and selective processe, influences by factors beyond their control. For Strauss to go against this takes the biscuit, since you are a product of that process.
 

Gangster Of Love

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IT WAS NONE OF THE ABOVE.

The reason the book sold well is because everybody who read it and took it for what it was, a novel type of entertaining boo, liked it. Neil Strauss is an accomplished writter. He was even before The Game. A lot of women liked the book? Believe me, if it was a How To book for picking up girls, they would not have liked it as much. It was written soap opera style, so most enjoyed it.

If somebody bought it because it is a "Manual for picking up girls", then they purchased the wrong book.

Will it help some? Off course. A lot of us who read it could relate to the character (which is what good writers are able to do for their readers). He showed how it is possible to change and become a more attractive person. Showed how most women are simply bored by the all too common geek who is just boring.

There are several things that are probably BS, but you take what works for you, if anything, and take it for what it is.
 

sparky0000

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He is selling to the Middle American idiot who is doomed from the start unless he leaves American shores. The numbers' game dictates that you are going to have a rough time if you stay in America. Most females are fat. Stats prove this. Most have plenty of money and don't feel the need for a boyfriend at the moment. Most are pampered and worshipped from the moment they begin school. The Middle American dude is up against all of this. The book and the DJ stuff gives him hope. Gives him hope that he can beat the numbers' game. Much like the chumps who try to beat casino games. They are driven by hope. Both groups see guys just like themselves (your DJ heroes are just plain odd looking) and ask, "Dude, if he can do it so can I!!!" Again, hope is what drives the business.

The smart guy doesn't play casino games. He IS the casino. He invests in gambling stocks rather than time and money trying to get the "right" cards. The poker craze (much like the DJ craze) is filled with guys who like to swim upstream. They just refuse to do basic math. The same goes for the wannabe DJ.

Conclusion...You probably won't get rich playing cards, and you probably won't get much competing with 100 guys for the one decent looking girl in your neighborhood.

Solution...
For those wanting to make money remember, TIME = MONEY. Boring and simple but it works. Getting rich quick is only a good idea if you are the man behind the idea.
For those wanting amazing girls. Find a place with good genetics where you are the hunted not the hunter. The concept can be explained in one sentence. That sentence won't make me rich. Writing about how I transformed myself into a stud over a long time will make me rich. Talking about cruising cool bars and clubs in LA is sexier than talking about finding a legit taxi driver in Belarus. I really doubt if Mr. Middle America can even find Belarus on the map.
 

wolf116

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Fantastic book! very fast paced read and hard to put down. I learned a lot from this book as it was my introduction into the world of pickup. It really got me pumped to learn all I can about pickup.

Do I use any of his corny lines/tricks? of cause not. Do I use some of the ideas? Definitely.

From the second I put down this book I never treated women the same.

Most of my success with pickup is due to Juggler and Gunwitch though.

My friend uses MM and it works!
I'm just too embarrassed to even stand near him when he sais "If I wasn't gay you would so be mine"

If I never read the game I would not be on this forum now.
 

Tazman

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I like this discussion.
darwinian_sympathiser said:
everyone uses everyone else.
This realization was probably the hardest truth for me to accept, especially since I'm no different from anyone else in this regard. In fact, I've had to try and deny this in order to comfort myself and behave as if I never thought about it. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss...
 

Kev07

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I think it's a good book for a few reasons.

1. neil strauss might have never done that stuff (who knows) but it's still interesting

2. i would DEFINETELY recommend to AFCs to read this book (or just read the bible) it is an easy way to open their eyes to the fact that kissing a girl's ass isn't going to get them anywhere.
3. I think it's a good book, not for learning, but it's entertaining, i've found myself laughign out loud every now and then.
 

Master Bates

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I thought the first half of the book was actually a pretty interesting account of his transformation. The second half, basically the Project Hollywood portion of the book, felt like one long episode of The Real World or something. Definitely the weaker half of the book.
 

Phyzzle

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I hate to say it, but I 100% agree with the troll (the guy who got banned for using the "font of death".)

The reviewer from Amazon.com did not read the book. Plain and simple.

None of the critiques make any sense whatsoever. They seem to be talking only about the titles of the chapters and the blurb on the back of the cover. The O.P. read only half.

I actually read it, and it was pretty good. I learned a few things:

1. Tyler Durden is a pr!ck.

2. Even though sosuave is a bunch of 14 year olds with social anxiety disorder, and zero field reports, it's still not as creepy as the rest of the seduction industry.
 

Master Bates

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Phyzzle said:
I actually read it, and it was pretty good. I learned a few things:

1. Tyler Durden is a pr!ck.

2. Even though sosuave is a bunch of 14 year olds with social anxiety disorder, and zero field reports, it's still not as creepy as the rest of the seduction industry.
Ha, agreed on both accounts. "Tyler Durden" really came off as an obnoxious tool in the book. Mystery also didn't really seem like someone to look up to at all, at least after the first several chapters of the book.
 

Marcopolo

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I really doubt if Mr. Middle America can even find Belarus on the map.
Hey, now, I know where Belarus is, in fact, I even know where Minsk is. I was banging a Belorussian Hottie,...in California. She came over here with a 42 year old overweight millionaire.
 

COD

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NEIL STRAUSS.............ROCKS..........BOOK IS GOLD........there are very few books that are collectors items.

its a good read
 

ricorico

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Marcopolo said:
Hey, now, I know where Belarus is, in fact, I even know where Minsk is. I was banging a Belorussian Hottie,...in California. She came over here with a 42 year old overweight millionaire.

A guy I know used to bang a 24 year old hottie from Siberia who married an overweight American guy . I guess it's cold in Siberia so the fat guy looked like at catch at the time cause he was great for keeping warm..
 

Latinoman

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wolf116 said:
Fantastic book! very fast paced read and hard to put down. I learned a lot from this book as it was my introduction into the world of pickup. It really got me pumped to learn all I can about pickup.

Do I use any of his corny lines/tricks? of cause not. Do I use some of the ideas? Definitely.

From the second I put down this book I never treated women the same.

Most of my success with pickup is due to Juggler and Gunwitch though.

My friend uses MM and it works!
I'm just too embarrassed to even stand near him when he sais "If I wasn't gay you would so be mine"

If I never read the game I would not be on this forum now.
You know how I learned? My father (when I was 15 or 16) used to take me to bars in the Island, not to drink, but to keep him company and introduce me to his childhood friends. And he was a master pick up artist and truly a man that knew how to deal with women in general.

I started to read that Book in the bookstore (I don't $$$ on that)...and I personally found it funny.
 

ricorico

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I had a friend who'se father was from the caribbean. The father was a PUA of all time. He could get women of every color. his advantage? He worked out and kept his body fit even though he was past 40. He dressed really well all the time, the father was as metrosexual as it got. nails,hair,cologne,the works. But he would attract young girls 18 and over like flies because he knew he had to look good to get their attention. His dad would then give lines of BS to keep them around. The father was so good, he even had a 20 year old hottie stalking him. Now that's a true pimp!!
 

Gangster Of Love

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Latinoman said:
You know how I learned? My father (when I was 15 or 16) used to take me to bars in the Island, not to drink, but to keep him company and introduce me to his childhood friends. And he was a master pick up artist and truly a man that knew how to deal with women in general.

I started to read that Book in the bookstore (I don't $$$ on that)...and I personally found it funny.
Good for you. That is the main factor missing growing up for a lot of us. To have an effective role model/father figure when learning how to socialize and deal with the ladies is just priceless. You've had the advantage, which I must admit, I am envious of, of having had that for half your life. Would love it if you continue to share some of that knowledge you got from your pop. Awesome.
 
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