SamTheHobit
Master Don Juan
What do you think are the negatives in pua 'rules' that hinder your chances in gaming women?
"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"
I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.
The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.
Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.
Negatives of pua theory
- Thread starter SamTheHobit
- Start date
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
There's plenty of pitfalls in the theory.
Let me tell you about this one recurring pitfall of mine.
I am too harsh for myself. If I lose congruence in front of a girl, I might think that I fvcked things up, when everything is actually just fine.
For example, there was this girl at the club who was there with her friend, who was waiting at the bar. I wanted a drink too, so I went to the bar, tapped the barman on the shoulder and ordered both our drinks. I figured her friend would give me money, but then she didn't and she let me pay for her coke!! I was like WTF!! I told the main girl I liked that I couldn't buy her a drink unless she gave me cash. She said it was fine. I sort of got pissed off and went for a cigarette.
I felt as though their perceived value of me had dropped. I'd been tricked.
It's important to remember that you only need to pass about 7/10 ****-tests, or 15/20. Girl's aren't all looking for perfection, but many of us are.
It's also important to remember to do whatever works with a specific girl. You might learn a special demeanor of being a bit more of a jerk, but if you meet a sweet girl who you like and haven't seen in a long time, it would be smart to let the whole jerk persona slide for a while. Don't change yourself too drastically and enforce it upon a girl who hasn't seen you for a while. Just let them learn from observation that you've changed.
Let me tell you about this one recurring pitfall of mine.
I am too harsh for myself. If I lose congruence in front of a girl, I might think that I fvcked things up, when everything is actually just fine.
For example, there was this girl at the club who was there with her friend, who was waiting at the bar. I wanted a drink too, so I went to the bar, tapped the barman on the shoulder and ordered both our drinks. I figured her friend would give me money, but then she didn't and she let me pay for her coke!! I was like WTF!! I told the main girl I liked that I couldn't buy her a drink unless she gave me cash. She said it was fine. I sort of got pissed off and went for a cigarette.
I felt as though their perceived value of me had dropped. I'd been tricked.
It's important to remember that you only need to pass about 7/10 ****-tests, or 15/20. Girl's aren't all looking for perfection, but many of us are.
It's also important to remember to do whatever works with a specific girl. You might learn a special demeanor of being a bit more of a jerk, but if you meet a sweet girl who you like and haven't seen in a long time, it would be smart to let the whole jerk persona slide for a while. Don't change yourself too drastically and enforce it upon a girl who hasn't seen you for a while. Just let them learn from observation that you've changed.
a) There is no unified set of PUA "rules." In fact there are some different schools of thought and they have some conflicting ideas.
b) These aren't hard and fast rules. They are guidelines. If they work for you, use them. If not, discard the ones that don't.
I think it's rarely a good idea to embrace any set of beliefs/doctrines/practices wholesale. You have to come up with a field-tested system that works for you. What works for others may not necessarily be congruent with who you are.
Every different PUA method has its strngths and weaknesses. It's probably best tomread a variety of sources and arrive at a balanced perspective.
b) These aren't hard and fast rules. They are guidelines. If they work for you, use them. If not, discard the ones that don't.
I think it's rarely a good idea to embrace any set of beliefs/doctrines/practices wholesale. You have to come up with a field-tested system that works for you. What works for others may not necessarily be congruent with who you are.
Every different PUA method has its strngths and weaknesses. It's probably best tomread a variety of sources and arrive at a balanced perspective.
Like everything else, it depends on what your intentions are, what you're looking for, who you're seeking after, etc. When a relationship-minded guy tries some of this stuff on a relationship-minded girl - he'll probably fall flat on his face. She won't be impressed by his player antics and lifestyle - even though he thought thats what she would respond to.
This is actually a very common scenario, and problem. Dude chases wrong women, gets burned, becomes a pua, chases after the right women, gets burned. It's like we go around in circles - doing everything backwards, and coming to irrational conclusions based on illogical experiences with the wrong people. Grouping everyone together, thinking everyone responds to the same things, is the same way, looking for the same things, etc. Just nonsense, really.
This is actually a very common scenario, and problem. Dude chases wrong women, gets burned, becomes a pua, chases after the right women, gets burned. It's like we go around in circles - doing everything backwards, and coming to irrational conclusions based on illogical experiences with the wrong people. Grouping everyone together, thinking everyone responds to the same things, is the same way, looking for the same things, etc. Just nonsense, really.
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
SharinganUser
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 1,776
- Reaction score
- 50
Some people let it take over their life and they get obsessed with "game."
The huge problem I see with PUA theory is that it's mostly fake. It can also cause you to become delusional and complacent. For example, if you go round acting confident and ****y, convincing yourself that you have everything it takes to get women, then you're not going to put the effort into improving yourself.
If you look at a lot of PUA guys, even those at the top of their field, they're mostly quite pathetic. What's worse is that they don't even know it.
The DJ path, on the other hand, focuses more on improving who you are and increasing your value. Of course, there are some tricks, rules and games everyone needs to know in terms of dating, but it's more about entering a room and having everyone respect you, about having a presence, natural charm and charisma, natural confidence.
Instead of "gaming" or tricking women into being with you, they will be with you because you make them weak at the knees and fulfill their fantasies.
If you look at a lot of PUA guys, even those at the top of their field, they're mostly quite pathetic. What's worse is that they don't even know it.
The DJ path, on the other hand, focuses more on improving who you are and increasing your value. Of course, there are some tricks, rules and games everyone needs to know in terms of dating, but it's more about entering a room and having everyone respect you, about having a presence, natural charm and charisma, natural confidence.
Instead of "gaming" or tricking women into being with you, they will be with you because you make them weak at the knees and fulfill their fantasies.
Viagra4Soul
Don Juan
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 4
Using 'PUA' at this age, with women of a similar age, is a waste of time.
By this stage, you've seen almost everything, lived almost all of it, and had almost every thing put on you. PUA looks like a child's game from the outside, and any woman worth 2 cents will simply laugh at you.
Although DJ has far more intrinsic value, it also has many of the same problems. By this age, both the guy and the target get far more out of the situation by simply communicating and understanding where each is at.
By this stage, you've seen almost everything, lived almost all of it, and had almost every thing put on you. PUA looks like a child's game from the outside, and any woman worth 2 cents will simply laugh at you.
Although DJ has far more intrinsic value, it also has many of the same problems. By this age, both the guy and the target get far more out of the situation by simply communicating and understanding where each is at.
SharinganUser
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 1,776
- Reaction score
- 50
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Communicating and understand where each other is at? Are you kidding?
Gray The Prince
Master Don Juan
SharinganUser said:
Dude he's new here. Don't be too hard on him.
"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"
You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.
She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.
Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.
Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.
Viagra4Soul
Don Juan
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 4
Your 28 - you're incapable of understanding anything I'm saying.SharinganUser said:
Keep quiet now pup...
There's two issues I have with it:
1) The fact that it is _theory_ to begin with, so you end up theorizing, playing with ideas in your head, devising strategies etc... Instead of living life and having a good time in the company of women. Doing stuff is way more important than thinking through each action or reading or itemizing IOIs.
2) Some of it misuses science/psychology to "prove" its claims, leading to some warped ideas that don't make any sense. Again, this is the result of getting way too into theory. People should learn from guys who have gone out and tried things, not from a journal of neuroscience study they don't even understand.
So to sum up, the problem is any time the theory starts overtaking what is important which is doing real stuff in the real world, and getting real results.
1) The fact that it is _theory_ to begin with, so you end up theorizing, playing with ideas in your head, devising strategies etc... Instead of living life and having a good time in the company of women. Doing stuff is way more important than thinking through each action or reading or itemizing IOIs.
2) Some of it misuses science/psychology to "prove" its claims, leading to some warped ideas that don't make any sense. Again, this is the result of getting way too into theory. People should learn from guys who have gone out and tried things, not from a journal of neuroscience study they don't even understand.
So to sum up, the problem is any time the theory starts overtaking what is important which is doing real stuff in the real world, and getting real results.
Alex DeLarge
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 845
- Reaction score
- 25
A lot of it is just a placebo effect.
-A dude thinks "Oh, girls don't want to talk to me. Woe is me!"
-He learns game and develops routines
-He then thinks "I can't fvck up this conversation or I fail and lose her! Stupid sh1t tests!"
-He is then incredibly self conscious about conversation thus leading to insecurity
-He is insecure then fails.
In reality, this guy could've definitely just talked to girls and had normal conversations rather than throwing out canned openers, neg hits, etc.. But he thought he needed this to learn how to communicate with women, like it's some big master puzzle when in reality, you're both attracted to each other and just want to fvck.
Sure you can't sound like a wimpy mouse in a conversation, but it doesn't have to be all planned out. As long as you're a funny dude, witty, intelligent, and have a grasp on sarcasm.. You're good to go with conversation.
Outside of conversation with chicks, a lot of the PUA stuff is just common sense really. Things like Kino, number close, kiss close, fvck close.. etc.
Girls like to be touched when they're even a tiny bit comfortable around you
Girls like when guys ask their number
Girls like kissing
Girls like sex
As long as you overcome those hurdles, you don't need to learn game.. You just gotta act and know what you want in a girl. I was dating an awesome girl a while ago and she asked me on the 2nd date if I was seeing anyone else.. I simply said "No, just you right now".. It's not a sh1t test. She's not going to think you're some clingy loser and dump you. Some girls just don't like dudes that date multiple chicks. If a girl dumps you for only dating her, then she's a fvcking idiot with no common sense.
Later on this girl actually did dump me cause I went out with a different girl one night and I ran into her. I'm kinda glad she did that because it really woke me up and helped me realize that not all girls are cool with that, and not all girls date multiple men at once.
-A dude thinks "Oh, girls don't want to talk to me. Woe is me!"
-He learns game and develops routines
-He then thinks "I can't fvck up this conversation or I fail and lose her! Stupid sh1t tests!"
-He is then incredibly self conscious about conversation thus leading to insecurity
-He is insecure then fails.
In reality, this guy could've definitely just talked to girls and had normal conversations rather than throwing out canned openers, neg hits, etc.. But he thought he needed this to learn how to communicate with women, like it's some big master puzzle when in reality, you're both attracted to each other and just want to fvck.
Sure you can't sound like a wimpy mouse in a conversation, but it doesn't have to be all planned out. As long as you're a funny dude, witty, intelligent, and have a grasp on sarcasm.. You're good to go with conversation.
Outside of conversation with chicks, a lot of the PUA stuff is just common sense really. Things like Kino, number close, kiss close, fvck close.. etc.
Girls like to be touched when they're even a tiny bit comfortable around you
Girls like when guys ask their number
Girls like kissing
Girls like sex
As long as you overcome those hurdles, you don't need to learn game.. You just gotta act and know what you want in a girl. I was dating an awesome girl a while ago and she asked me on the 2nd date if I was seeing anyone else.. I simply said "No, just you right now".. It's not a sh1t test. She's not going to think you're some clingy loser and dump you. Some girls just don't like dudes that date multiple chicks. If a girl dumps you for only dating her, then she's a fvcking idiot with no common sense.
Later on this girl actually did dump me cause I went out with a different girl one night and I ran into her. I'm kinda glad she did that because it really woke me up and helped me realize that not all girls are cool with that, and not all girls date multiple men at once.
omkara
Senior Don Juan
The ideal of PUAs and Tyler Durden and Roosh and all them is the Dos Equis commercial guy - the "most interesting man in the world." I don't see that guy and think, wow I want to be that guy. A lot of the achievements that are considered worthwhile to PUAs and DJs are external and seem geared towards impressing other people. I don't want to travel around the world to impress people, have a fashionable job, have six-pack abs, make 300K a year, have a jet plane, a sports car, or any of that crap. I want to be a man of character and substance, not flash. Thing is, that guy is always going to lose out to the Dos Equis guy, no matter how much he perfects his game.
If your goals are congruent with becoming the Dos Equis guy, then it's fairly easy to become the DJ/PUA. If you truly don't want to be that guy, but think you have to to get the hot girls, then you will not be motivated to achieve those goals and there will be inner conflict.
If your goals are congruent with becoming the Dos Equis guy, then it's fairly easy to become the DJ/PUA. If you truly don't want to be that guy, but think you have to to get the hot girls, then you will not be motivated to achieve those goals and there will be inner conflict.
omkara...if you 'truly don't want to by that guy' (dos equis dude).....then with all due respect you should be above wanting hot chicks.
problem solved
get an hb 4 or 5 chick and settle down...she'll be more than grateful to have you.
problem solved
get an hb 4 or 5 chick and settle down...she'll be more than grateful to have you.
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
omkara
Senior Don Juan
I think you're probably right. I probably would be happy in that type of situation. I need to hang out here just to figure out how to get 4's and 5's though. There is a lot of competition for them.
sighsigh
Don Juan
If you take it too seriously you turn into a raging misogynist whose marriage won't last longer than a year.
Atom Smasher
Master Don Juan
Good gaming entails:
1) Go out and fail with impunity. It's a game.
2) Dress a little above what your "competition" is dressing. Show a sense of style and wear clean shoes. Women judge you by your shoes. Shiny armour almost completely makes up for average or even bad looks, Sir Recovering AFC.
3) Improve yourself a little each day.
4) Be satisfied with tiny, incremental improvements. They will add up to critical mass in due time.
5) Chat and be sociable with everybody, male and female, throughout the entire day.
5) Send lots of money to Atom Smasher in gratitude for his formularizing it for you.
1) Go out and fail with impunity. It's a game.
2) Dress a little above what your "competition" is dressing. Show a sense of style and wear clean shoes. Women judge you by your shoes. Shiny armour almost completely makes up for average or even bad looks, Sir Recovering AFC.
3) Improve yourself a little each day.
4) Be satisfied with tiny, incremental improvements. They will add up to critical mass in due time.
5) Chat and be sociable with everybody, male and female, throughout the entire day.
5) Send lots of money to Atom Smasher in gratitude for his formularizing it for you.
SharinganUser
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 1,776
- Reaction score
- 50
Viagra4Soul said:
Experience isn't simply measured in years. I understood everything you wrote, I just disagree with it on a fundamental level. It's this sensitive "white knight" nonsense that is the why most guys come here in the first place. Maybe when you get a little more experience, you'll be able to open your eyes to the world and understand what I am saying, pup.
I have several female friends and I hear so much that can be construed as this stuff nowadays.
I think the biggest failure of PUA-ism is that is conducted by guys with little to no social sense. They believe "act like a jerk" is the first, last, and only way to get the girl. They cannot fine tune it to where it belongs. For example just about every bad boy I KNOW acts nice in the beginning. Aspiring PUAs don't seem to understand that bad boy stuff works well only when the girl is already into you. Otherwise you are just a d!ck. But PUAs aren't around enough relationships in their daily life to understand this. And they don't seem to understand it doesn't work for all (or perhaps even most) women out there.
I think the biggest failure of PUA-ism is that is conducted by guys with little to no social sense. They believe "act like a jerk" is the first, last, and only way to get the girl. They cannot fine tune it to where it belongs. For example just about every bad boy I KNOW acts nice in the beginning. Aspiring PUAs don't seem to understand that bad boy stuff works well only when the girl is already into you. Otherwise you are just a d!ck. But PUAs aren't around enough relationships in their daily life to understand this. And they don't seem to understand it doesn't work for all (or perhaps even most) women out there.
"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.