Need help with Frame and **** Tests

[JimmyMack]

It's been about 6 months since I have last posted so I have a few things I wanted to share. I have definitely won some, lost some in these past months and here are some of the things I've taken away.

- Dating a female version of an AFC was great insight into the beta behavior that can turn one from hot to cold. Can't recall specifics right now but all the usual things...was too available, offered up way too much of herself and left no mystery, always tried to please way too much. In the end I told her I wasn't ready for anything and didn't want to see her get hurt.

- Dating a female version of an Alpha was great insight into where my game was still lacking. Ironically enough she gave me the "I don't want to see you get hurt". (I immediately thought of the George Castanza Seinfeld episode) Karma kings were smiling on that one. Her game was so tight it really threw me off for awhile and made me realize I have much more room to evolve.

- If a girls says she is a horrible liar; she isn't and she just did. Women like this lie through the passive behavior of omission.

- Dating a bartender is like dating a stripper. Every one of her co-workers probably wants to bang her and all of her customers do for sure. My confidence and inner game was strong until bad drug habits came into the picture. Addiction is a tough one to compete with. (Not to suggest that all strippers or bartenders are addicts).

Currently, I know I need to work on my inner-game more and I'm okay with that; however, I still need work on understand and passing **** tests as well as establishing/re-establishing my frame. I hear both of these things being used in passing but I can't seem to find definitive info on either. Would anyone be able to post some links or help better define/explain how I can work on understanding and getting better at both **** tests and framing? I've searched but I can only find it mentioned in passing.

Thanks

 

[Colossus]

A sh*t test is an attempt, either conscious or not, to put you in a place where you're at a loss for a response or forced to face a contradiction (often perceived) between your words and actions. The underlying reason for the sh*t test is usually to reveal your true feelings or motives on something. That's how I look at it anyway.

Women have a remarkable ability to remember what people say. Men say a lot of things and forget a lot of things, and this is usually where we get tripped up on sh*t tests.

The short answer is there really isnt any one formula for 'passing' them, you just need to learn more about them and see some patterns to anticipate the right response.

Framing is a bit more of a straightforward topic---it comes down to two key elements: How confident you are in yourself and your other options, and the frame with which you enter the relationship; whether it be a STR or LTR. You've seen the type of behavior that can cause a woman (and a man) to LOSE frame, so you know that losing it is much easier than gaining it back. One of the all-time classic sosuave threads is "how do i get her back?" The wise answer is it's almost never worth the time and effort. Your resources are, 99 times out of 100, better spent working on new prospects.

A simple way to think about frame is the degree to which you are in need. A man in need of sex is not going to have frame with anything but a super-swamper. A man in need of female companionship is not going to win them over with his charms. Think about the times you've had frame with a woman. She was probably really interested in you, right? Maybe to the point she was acting needy or being way too available....and likewise when YOU were into a woman so much that she had the frame. This is a simplification, but you can see where I'm going with it.

Your frame is going to vary from girl to girl. The pickup "gurus" who tell you you can have frame with every woman you approach are full of sh!t. It's an illusion that cannot be maintained. What you CAN do is maximize your 'frame-rate' by selecting women with high interest only. Some things are beyond your immediate control, like social status, wealth, and physical prowess. A famous musician is going to have automatic frame with women because his perceived value is so much higher than the average joe. Women are naturally hypergamous (having the tendency to "marry up"), so they will be drawn to men in the upper echelons of wealth, status, and power. That's a more extreme example, but take that and put into the view of your own life. You cant have frame with a woman if you dont bring something superior to the table. That can be your looks, your charm and confidence, your money, your career, or even a certain skill or attribute you excel at. Guys tend to lose frame when they feel it's in the bag and become too available, open, or needy. Just think back again to the female AFC you dated. Even if the girl was hot, how long would you actually be interested in a woman who was constantly calling, asking you where you've been, why you dont spend more time with her, etc...? It drives men insane, and that same behavior will drive women away for good.

The best way to ensure that doesnt happen is to spread your energies out. Have hobbies and commitments. Date multiple women. When or if you find one you wanna be exclusive with, keep up with all of your interests and friends. Flirt with other women. Get numbers. You dont need to cheat, just remind yourself from time to time you know how to play.

 

[JimmyMack]

This is great! Thanks so much for taking the time with it; definitely makes more sense now. There've been a few times when I am able to use the 'agree and amplify' method and it's worked well, but there have definitely been other times when a girls behavior will just go right over my head.

Also, all the good relationships I've been in have ultimately failed because, in hindsight, my frame has changed after the few months. (I love the thread about this which is along the lines of passing the ultimate **** test)

It also seems like the **** tests are a way for the girl to try and change the dynamic of the man's frame(?)

I can think of one example that was pretty interesting to watch go down:

My boss at work had his wife come in to help out one morning. Both are a good looking couple - girls come in and flirt with him all the time and she is pretty smokin'. The environment is definitely in favor of his frame: it's his place of employment, she's working under him, his employees show him respect etc.

At one point she asks in a semi-whiny voice "I'm thirsty...can you buy me a water?" I instantly perked up because I was able to recognize this as a **** test and was curious as to how he would handle it.

A few minutes went by where he didn't say anything. Then he slowly walks over to her with a big McDonalds cup and says "Here, you can have the rest of my iced tea - some of the ice is melted but it will quench your thirst just as well." And he walks away.

The way she looked at him, I could practically hear her tingle all the way over where I was. Pretty well played.

 

[The_411]

+1 to Colussus

Another way to think of it is that ****e tests are a woman's way to fish out beta behaviors.

That's why you need congruency because the s-test can come at any time and in any form and just knowing the answers to some of them might get you in the door but you will get blown out.

Your frame is the identity you hold to and live by it allows you to defeat **** tests because you focus on what your core belief system is and if a girl doesn't mesh with your beliefs and blows you out then she wasn't worth it anyway.

 

[squirrels]

- Dating a bartender is like dating a stripper. Every one of her co-workers probably wants to bang her and all of her customers do for sure. My confidence and inner game was strong until bad drug habits came into the picture. Addiction is a tough one to compete with. (Not to suggest that all strippers or bartenders are addicts).

Dating ANY particularly hot girl is like that...any girl who's ultra-feminine and has a lot of "shimmer" to her. She's going to have a ton of male suitors, a ton of male friends hoping to make the jump to "suitor", and a bunch of jealous guys being "haters" hoping that it'll distinguish them from the others. Even her married male friends are hoping for a porn-style menage-a-trois with her and the wifey.

You have to understand that these women are basically grown up little girls. Project YOUR intention onto them...bring them into your life and give them a role to play. Don't tolerate any of their nonsense...women like that have very little of their OWN identity, no matter how much they try to tell you there's "so much more to me". There isn't, or she wouldn't have to tell you about it. She's simply gone through life taking pieces of the men who have coveted her and making them her own.

Treat her well, but don't give her all of the credit she demands, unless she EARNS it. The second you start to buy her bullsh!t, she will drop you like a hot lump of coal.

 

[JimmyMack]

@squirrels

Yeah I agree about the dating hot girls in general. The thing with the bartender chick was that everything was pretty awesome. The attention she got didn't bother me and I knew she was head over heels for me. I was the prize and maintained by confidence without trying to prove myself to her. I'm definitely looking for an eventual LTR and she was a great match.

However, the substance abuse thing really got to be a problem. I wonder how many guys here have also struggled with that emerging and ruining a relationship?

The problem was two fold: she did a lot of X and blow. 10 years ago I had serious problems with that, got better, moved on and am all good. I knew I couldn't change her and was okay with her going off and doing her thing. However, I am aware enough that if I was around it and had a few beers I would be spiraling back down into that world.

The other thing was that she would drink a lot at work. We didn't see each other that much and when we did she would show up pretty buzzed. I told her I wasn't cool with that and she did the classic addict thing: you're not my dad, I don't drink that much, what's the big deal - everyone at work is doing it and I'm the one with the problem etc. The relationship ended and unfortunately to her and her friends, I'm the one painted as the over-controlling BF which can be a bit of a scarlet letter in a small city.

I know I did the right thing here and am okay with it, but it's sad how addictions can cloud perspective and ruin relationships; especially when addicts surround themselves with addicts.

 

[Poonani Maker]

@squirrels

Yeah I agree about the dating hot girls in general. The thing with the bartender chick was that everything was pretty awesome. The attention she got didn't bother me and I knew she was head over heels for me. I was the prize and maintained by confidence without trying to prove myself to her. I'm definitely looking for an eventual LTR and she was a great match.

However, the substance abuse thing really got to be a problem. I wonder how many guys here have also struggled with that emerging and ruining a relationship?

The problem was two fold: she did a lot of X and blow. 10 years ago I had serious problems with that, got better, moved on and am all good. I knew I couldn't change her and was okay with her going off and doing her thing. However, I am aware enough that if I was around it and had a few beers I would be spiraling back down into that world.

The other thing was that she would drink a lot at work. We didn't see each other that much and when we did she would show up pretty buzzed. I told her I wasn't cool with that and she did the classic addict thing: you're not my dad, I don't drink that much, what's the big deal - everyone at work is doing it and I'm the one with the problem etc. The relationship ended and unfortunately to her and her friends, I'm the one painted as the over-controlling BF which can be a bit of a scarlet letter in a small city.

I know I did the right thing here and am okay with it, but it's sad how addictions can cloud perspective and ruin relationships; especially when addicts surround themselves with addicts.

I'm currently involved with one (fvcked her 7 times over the past month and a half). Her quote boyfriend unquote is actually married she told me a couple of weeks ago. She told me how she's tried to get him to kick his wife out of his house so that she could move in. lol I just go on fvcking her and she knows that I'd never let her come stay with me. I've expressed that Very clearly. In fact, she don't know a whole lot about me. I'm very general about my sh!t when I am with her. I do not tell her where I work (don't want her coming up there and surprising me, I mean, she's hot and cool, and I wouldn't mind my co-workers seeing her from a distance picking me up in her car or something, but I wouldn't want them to meet her. She's just too not like them (all married) or me even. I just want her for a fvck. Nothing more.