Need a little guidance

[Mr. Goods]

Over the past couple of weeks, I have discovered some things about myself and my game. My friends and I went to a local bar a couple nights ago to catch up (we've all been running around doing different things) and they brought up the following (the 1st and 3rd were more them, the 2nd is more me, but they agree):

-Though we like to go to bars and see what girls are around, my style of game is much more geared towards dating than one night stands.
-This is very true with me. Maybe it had to do with my upbringing (big values with me are respect, trust, having a strong base, and not putting myself in a position to look/do something real bad), but I definitely look for "dateable girls" more than "one-night stand girls." Going to bars and bars/clubs are a good time, but it completely wipes out my strengths. My friends say I am a very good conversationalist, can supply witty comments, and am intelligent enough to talk about a lot of things. At a bar/club with loud music, I can't do this. Additionally, it seems a girl being intelligent makes me more attracted to her - again, not really a plus at bars/clubs. My friends are absolutely right.

-I'm pretty much f*cked when it comes to girls in my hometown.
-This one we all knew. Back in high school, about five years ago, I was a too-skinny "nice guy" who was too naive about girls/dating/etc. Girls would often play me and try to take advantage of me. Fast forward to now, where I am home a lot more regularly ever since I graduated college this past May, and I've completely changed. I have built up enough muscle that people think I'm on steroids (I'm not) and I have plenty of swagger - I don't take sh*t from anyone. Despite the improvements, girls have visibly tried to convince themselves I have not changed one bit. They either A.) Look at me like they just saw a ghost and quickly disappear, or B.) Will act as if I'm still "high school Mr. Goods." When this quickly backfires, they struggle through the rest of the encounter. Even if some girls appear nice, they will cut me off the instant I try anything past the initial run-in.

-When it comes to meeting girls and trying to move things along with dates, I "blitz the house;" basically, I try to move very quickly, probably too quickly.
Seems like an accurate assessment. Back in high school and early on in college (before or during the very early stages of my changes), I was way too patient, afraid to ask a girl out due to some really harsh rejections in the past. As you could predict, this landed me in the "friend zone" or I reached a point where my opportunity was gone. I was too passive and too "scared off" by my earlier rejections.
Fast-forward to now, and I probably have the opposite problem. I focus on moving things forward almost immediately. If I spot/meet/run into a girl and get to know her a little bit, I will ask her out quickly thereafter. The problem here is that not much comfort is established in such a short time frame. I would rather move things quickly than have something drag on for months and see no results. I feel it's best to strike while the iron is hot and I feel moving things quickly limits a girl's ability to play games and puts me in the driver's seat. However, it seems I am too aggressive/fast with trying to make something work. I'm not patient enough.

I need a little guidance on how to balance my game, thus allowing the best results:
-Since I am apparently doomed in my hometown, is it time to go online? I don't have much faith in the free sites these days (tried PoF briefly...didn't work), but maybe there is a very good dating site that does cost a few bucks.
-Is there a way to use my strengths-that-are-more-geared-towards-a-relationship (intelligent-worldly/holding a good convo/humor and wit) in a bar setting? I don't grope everything I see and don't have great dance moves. I also am not a big drinker and won't get drunk.
-Is there any way I can temper my dating aggressiveness while not being too passive? Sure, it's great to get to know a girl, but I don't want to wait too long so I'm in the friend zone/she loses interest. I'd also like to make a move while the iron is hot and before she has a chance to play many games (since I will then call a girl out on her power games, she stomp away in a huff and I never hear from her again).

 

[runner83]

Hey mate, these are my thoughts:

Over the past couple of weeks, I have discovered some things about myself and my game. My friends and I went to a local bar a couple nights ago to catch up (we've all been running around doing different things) and they brought up the following (the 1st and 3rd were more them, the 2nd is more me, but they agree):

-Though we like to go to bars and see what girls are around, my style of game is much more geared towards dating than one night stands.
-This is very true with me. Maybe it had to do with my upbringing (big values with me are respect, trust, having a strong base, and not putting myself in a position to look/do something real bad), but I definitely look for "dateable girls" more than "one-night stand girls." Going to bars and bars/clubs are a good time, but it completely wipes out my strengths. My friends say I am a very good conversationalist, can supply witty comments, and am intelligent enough to talk about a lot of things. At a bar/club with loud music, I can't do this. Additionally, it seems a girl being intelligent makes me more attracted to her - again, not really a plus at bars/clubs. My friends are absolutely right.

I like intelligent girls as well. I can't stand bimbos just for s*x. Have you tried quieter bars where music is not so loud? I have the same problem and my hearing in a loud club environment seems to be even worse that for others.

Success in the club environment can be difficult, unless you have a good physical prescence. Having said that though, I am only 5'8" and have had girls approach me to make out.


-I'm pretty much f*cked when it comes to girls in my hometown.
-This one we all knew. Back in high school, about five years ago, I was a too-skinny "nice guy" who was too naive about girls/dating/etc. Girls would often play me and try to take advantage of me. Fast forward to now, where I am home a lot more regularly ever since I graduated college this past May, and I've completely changed. I have built up enough muscle that people think I'm on steroids (I'm not) and I have plenty of swagger - I don't take sh*t from anyone. Despite the improvements, girls have visibly tried to convince themselves I have not changed one bit. They either A.) Look at me like they just saw a ghost and quickly disappear, or B.) Will act as if I'm still "high school Mr. Goods." When this quickly backfires, they struggle through the rest of the encounter. Even if some girls appear nice, they will cut me off the instant I try anything past the initial run-in.

How big is your home town? Even say a town of 100,000, I would have thought there would be enough supply of pvssy that you wouldn't have to put up with sh*t from girls who knew the old you.


-When it comes to meeting girls and trying to move things along with dates, I "blitz the house;" basically, I try to move very quickly, probably too quickly.
Seems like an accurate assessment. Back in high school and early on in college (before or during the very early stages of my changes), I was way too patient, afraid to ask a girl out due to some really harsh rejections in the past. As you could predict, this landed me in the "friend zone" or I reached a point where my opportunity was gone. I was too passive and too "scared off" by my earlier rejections.
Fast-forward to now, and I probably have the opposite problem. I focus on moving things forward almost immediately. If I spot/meet/run into a girl and get to know her a little bit, I will ask her out quickly thereafter. The problem here is that not much comfort is established in such a short time frame. I would rather move things quickly than have something drag on for months and see no results. I feel it's best to strike while the iron is hot and I feel moving things quickly limits a girl's ability to play games and puts me in the driver's seat. However, it seems I am too aggressive/fast with trying to make something work. I'm not patient enough.

This is only something that can be fixed with experience and learning to find the balance. But better to make the "ho say no" than to be LJBF.

I need a little guidance on how to balance my game, thus allowing the best results:

-Since I am apparently doomed in my hometown, is it time to go online? I don't have much faith in the free sites these days (tried PoF briefly...didn't work), but maybe there is a very good dating site that does cost a few bucks.

It may be a bit different for me. I set up a POF profile around New Years and since then have had about one girl a day initiate / contact me, ranging from girls who didn't meet my criteria but might be good for a quickie through to some girls who might be keepers.

I would only rate myself as "slightly above average" in terms of overall physical looks, but some girls have called me "cute" or "s*xy" just based on my profile pics.

I would still suggest online dating as one part of your portfolio, but don't spend too much time on it. Instead have a good pic and profile, and the girls should (or may?) come to you. This is how it works in Aus, but may be different for you.

Sites that I have used before with success: POF (Currently), RSVP (paid, might be Australia only), Match.com (paid). In my opinion, E-Harmony is a waste of time, but I haven't tried it for that reason.

PM me if you want to get details of what I have in my profile.


-Is there a way to use my strengths-that-are-more-geared-towards-a-relationship (intelligent-worldly/holding a good convo/humor and wit) in a bar setting? I don't grope everything I see and don't have great dance moves. I also am not a big drinker and won't get drunk.

Try a quieter club where the crowd is likely to be more upscale. This will have to be determined by "in the field" research.

-Is there any way I can temper my dating aggressiveness while not being too passive? Sure, it's great to get to know a girl, but I don't want to wait too long so I'm in the friend zone/she loses interest. I'd also like to make a move while the iron is hot and before she has a chance to play many games (since I will then call a girl out on her power games, she stomp away in a huff and I never hear from her again).

- 1st meet - go for light kino and a kiss (and escalate if she goes along with it)

- 2nd meet - go for s*x - if she is into you, she will give it up by then

- 3rd meet - if she didn't have s*x on the 2nd meet, then try for it now.

If you don't have s*x with a girl within 3 times of seeing her (and there is no legitimate reason), then go no contact and try other girls.

Also, calling out a girl for any reason = EPIC FAIL. It only shows you cared:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=176859

Better to go NC (without announcing) and see what happens.

 

[Mr. Goods]

Thanks Runner. In response to your comments:

-Way to represent the shorter guys! I'm 5'7". I have a very athletic physical frame, now I just need to utilize it with women. The quieter bar idea does not sound bad. The problem is, girls around here seem to go to only the louder bars. The quiet bar my friends and I hang out at...not too many women lately.

-100,000 people in my home town? I wish. Try 10,000 tops. My town isn't "tiny," but it's not big, either. This means many of the girls I see went to high school with me as well.

-I agree. Better to be too aggressive than too passive. I feel I get thrown off by a girl who will reject me, but then get with someone who is not only very passive, but also shows signs of clinginess/need/desperate and the girl will say he is nice. Finding a balance is key, but it's not easy.

-When I tried PoF, I got plenty of profile views, but no girls contacted me. I sent some quick notes to girls on there, but never got a response. If I was to get into online dating, I'd go for a site that is credible and one where getting results is more likely. PoF is free, which is good, but as I said before, my success was non-existant.

-A lot of the games girls try to play with me are more disrespectful and not "fun." I can joke around with fun. I do not handle disrespect well. When a girl tries to play me for a fool, they will know it didn't work. It seems the minute I out-wit them or prove immune to their tactics, they leave forever.

-I do care, which is a double-edged sword. I will always put my best foot forward, but I also get frustrated when something doesn't work. No-contact might work, but it doesn't fit with my "aggressive" mindset. With no-contact, things have not happened. I feel my chances at least change if I try to shake it up.

 

[Veridin]

I need a little guidance on how to balance my game, thus allowing the best results:
-Since I am apparently doomed in my hometown, is it time to go online? I don't have much faith in the free sites these days (tried PoF briefly...didn't work), but maybe there is a very good dating site that does cost a few bucks.
-Is there a way to use my strengths-that-are-more-geared-towards-a-relationship (intelligent-worldly/holding a good convo/humor and wit) in a bar setting? I don't grope everything I see and don't have great dance moves. I also am not a big drinker and won't get drunk.
-Is there any way I can temper my dating aggressiveness while not being too passive? Sure, it's great to get to know a girl, but I don't want to wait too long so I'm in the friend zone/she loses interest. I'd also like to make a move while the iron is hot and before she has a chance to play many games (since I will then call a girl out on her power games, she stomp away in a huff and I never hear from her again).

-You can meet girls online, but it is a lot of work. The women all send messages to the most good-looking men in a dating site, and ignore the rest. You can still meet a lot of quality girls there though, but you have to send out a LOT of messages. A hundred at the very least. But, that still takes less time than two nights at a club.

-The second question - I don't know, I have always gotten girls from other places than clubs. I always thought the club scene was a bit stupid. The girls talk to guys there thinking that "We're just having fun!" while the guys pretend it is so in the hope of getting sex. It is possible to find girls in other ways, and more relaxed too.

-Making a move on a girl on the third date is always accepted, I think.

 

[Mr. Goods]

-Making a move on a girl on the third date is always accepted, I think.

It seems this is the consensus. Of course, I need to get to the third date first. I tend to overthink certain things, but I feel getting dates consistently isn't so hard. I can inconsistently get dates lol, but none have developed into anything big.