NBA Finals

[SmooveMooves]

Anyone into basketball here?

Part III of a legendary trilogy taking place. The best team in the history of the NBA vs the best player since Michael Jordan. Who you got? I got the dubs in 5.

 

[EyeBRollin]

It's a joke. The second best player in the NBA joins a team that already won a title, has four all stars, and had the best single regular season ever. Warriors will win.

I feel bad for LeBron. No one has faced the level of competition this dude has faced in NBA finals over his career.

 

[SmooveMooves]

It's a joke. The second best player in the NBA joins a team that already won a title, has four all stars, and had the best single regular season ever. Warriors will win.

I feel bad for LeBron. No one has faced the level of competition this dude has faced in NBA finals over his career.

I'd be willing to say ever. He's the greatest player who has played toughest competition ever. The Warriors are the best basketball team that has ever been in the NBA.

 

[samspade]

On one hand, I hate these all-star teams that are being assembled. On the other hand, we get to see a lot of great players in the Finals. Last night's game was disappointing - the Cavs were hanging tough til the third and then turnovers caught up with them. Durant was everywhere on the court too. I'd like to see the Cavs repeat, but Lebron will have to will it to happen. Their shots weren't falling either, and the Warriors were...sometimes it's not your night. NBA is a jump shooter's game right now.

No prediction but I hope it's an entertaining series. I've been enjoying seeing LBJ in the Finals year after year, win or lose.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'd be willing to say ever. He's the greatest player who has played toughest competition ever. The Warriors are the best basketball team that has ever been in the NBA.

Yup. Add to the list:

Warriors X2
Spurs X3 (their 2014 team was their best team ever)
Mavericks with Dirk + Jason Kidd
OKC with. KD, Westbrook, Harden, & Ibaka

 

[Reyaj]

Michael Jordan is still the GOAT

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

The current GSW team is not much different in terms of quality to Jordan's Bulls - i.e. probably three or four of the top ten best in the league. That being said, 16/17 ppg averages for the top 3 clutch players on both teams are almost identical, though call it half a dozen points in GS favour. Don't see there's any reason to sympathise with LeBron. Personally, I would have preferred Isaiah Thomas to have a made it through, this year in particular. Pound for pound I think he's a better player anyway.

Having grown up in the Jordan era, I've never particularly rated LeBron, nor anyone else since. Ray Allen and Kobe were fun to watch because they were more similar to Mike. But when you got guys the size of power forwards like LeBron and KD basically playing as two gaurds, the game can become very boring. The way it's going, the NBA will just be 5on5 seven footers in ten years time. Lacking variety and finesse of days gone by.

 

[zekko]

Someone pointed this out the other day on TV, I thought it was interesting. Jordan had great Hall of Fame coaches, both in college and the pros. LeBron came directly out of high school, and it's often seemed like he's had to run his teams himself. Where does his great basketball mind come from?

 

[samspade]

For a long time you couldn't convince me that anyone would be better than Jordan. But what Lebron's done has been amazing. One thing a writer pointed out that I hadn't considered: When Jordan retired to play baseball, the Chicago Bulls went 55-27 and took the Knicks to 7 games in the semifinals. When Lebron left the Cavaliers, they won 19 games; when he left the Heat, they won 37.

 

[Reyaj]

For a long time you couldn't convince me that anyone would be better than Jordan. But what Lebron's done has been amazing. One thing a writer pointed out that I hadn't considered: When Jordan retired to play baseball, the Chicago Bulls went 55-27 and took the Knicks to 7 games in the semifinals. When Lebron left the Cavaliers, they won 19 games; when he left the Heat, they won 37.

No doubt Lebron is a great player but he isn't the GOAT. Jordan never lost in the finals... I've watched both play and you just knew Jordan wouldn't allow his team to lose, nobody could dominate a game like him.

 

[samspade]

No doubt Lebron is a great player but he isn't the GOAT. Jordan never lost in the finals... I've watched both play and you just knew Jordan wouldn't allow his team to lose, nobody could dominate a game like him.

GOAT is subjective but it's a fun argument. Yeah Jordan never lost in the Finals, but he lost plenty of times in earlier rounds, including the first round. Those count, too. Lebron's teams never lost in the first round, and he's been in eight Finals to Jordan's six. If Finals are all that matter, then you could make an argument for Bill Russell or Kareem being better than Michael. Or you could say Scottie Pippen is better than Lebron because Pippen never lost a Finals, either.

I get what you mean about MJ's killer instinct and competitiveness though. I think Lebron might be the better all-around basketball player. I suppose his story is still being written.

 

[Reyaj]

GOAT is subjective but it's a fun argument. Yeah Jordan never lost in the Finals, but he lost plenty of times in earlier rounds, including the first round. Those count, too. Lebron's teams never lost in the first round, and he's been in eight Finals to Jordan's six. If Finals are all that matter, then you could make an argument for Bill Russell or Kareem being better than Michael. Or you could say Scottie Pippen is better than Lebron because Pippen never lost a Finals, either.

I get what you mean about MJ's killer instinct and competitiveness though. I think Lebron might be the better all-around basketball player. I suppose his story is still being written.

Once Jordan hit his prime he never lost in the finals, or even a playoff series except for the one year he left to play baseball perhaps (my memory isn't serving me right now). Bill Russell and Kareem are definitely ahead of Lebron on my all time list because of the reasons you stated. I don't believe either of them are undefeated in the finals though or won as many consecutive ones as Jordan did in his prime?

Scottie Pippen is one of the most over rated players ever in my opinion. The year Jordan left he couldn't get the Bulls there. As a matter of fact for all those who try to say "well Jordan played with Pippen who was great" I would honestly say Lebron played with "Dwayne Wade" who is a great player (and actually won a championship on his own before Lebron got there) and Lebron still lost to the Dallas Mavericks with that "super team" with Bosh too. I think after that happend the comparisons should have stopped. Dwayne Wade was better than Scottie Pippen in my opinion. I think his stats and the fact that he could carry his team to a championship as their ace player proves that.

I will admit though if Lebron does find a way to beat these Warriors again he could be in the discussion. I don't see that happening though.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

GOAT is subjective but it's a fun argument. Yeah Jordan never lost in the Finals, but he lost plenty of times in earlier rounds, including the first round. Those count, too. Lebron's teams never lost in the first round, and he's been in eight Finals to Jordan's six. If Finals are all that matter, then you could make an argument for Bill Russell or Kareem being better than Michael. Or you could say Scottie Pippen is better than Lebron because Pippen never lost a Finals, either.

I get what you mean about MJ's killer instinct and competitiveness though. I think Lebron might be the better all-around basketball player. I suppose his story is still being written.

I found this intresting:

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/galler...rs-golden-state-warriors-greatest-best-053017

Although I disagree with the conclusion. Because in my mind one thing that Lebron seemed to always lack compared to Jordon was killer instinct. Plus Jordon was more fun to watch.

Although, I will be the first one to admit that Lebron can do some things that Jordon couldnt because of his size, strength and agility.

At the end of the day tho they are there to win games, championships and rings, the end.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

When Jordan retired to play baseball, the Chicago Bulls went 55-27 and took the Knicks to 7 games in the semifinals. When Lebron left the Cavaliers, they won 19 games; when he left the Heat, they won 37.

This doesn't mean LeBron is better than Jordan, it just means LeBron is (usually) the go to guy on a team of nobodies; except maybe while he was at the Miami.

The point should also be made about opposition. It's GSW vs Cavs for the third straight year. One team 12-zip, the other 12-1 in the play offs. LeBrons only real competition in the league are Stephen Curry and KD, and even they are both on the same team.

By comparison, that Bulls team would beat today's Cavs. Though I'm not sure about GSW.

 

[EyeBRollin]

No doubt Lebron is a great player but he isn't the GOAT. Jordan never lost in the finals... I've watched both play and you just knew Jordan wouldn't allow his team to lose, nobody could dominate a game like him.

Jordan didn't have competition anywhere near what LeBron has faced. This Warrior's team would wipe the floor with any of those Bulls teams. Th 2014 Spurs team LeBron lost to probably would as well. They had the highest offensive efficiency in NBA playoffs history, the Big 3 with Prime Tony Parker, Kawhi Leonard, and a 12 deep bench.

 

[EyeBRollin]

No doubt Lebron is a great player but he isn't the GOAT. Jordan never lost in the finals... I've watched both play and you just knew Jordan wouldn't allow his team to lose, nobody could dominate a game like him.

Jordan would get washed by this Warriors team. Blown out. Wouldn't even be close. They have 3 dudes on the floor that can guard him (Green, Igodala, Thompson) , and a 4th that would bother him (Durant).

I'm sorry (not really), no team in NBA history can match up offensively & defensively with the Curry, Thompson, Igodala, Durant, Green lineup.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

These are the 96 all stars. Look how much competition Jordan has. He is a level above everyone else granted. But there are two whole teams of pretty solid guys there who might have/did win championships.

Curry is the only player today anywhere near able to compete with LeBron today. And even then, Curry is the better player and LeBron the athlete.

 

[samspade]

Bill Russell and Kareem are definitely ahead of Lebron on my all time list because of the reasons you stated. I don't believe either of them are undefeated in the finals though or won as many consecutive ones as Jordan did in his prime?

Bill Russell and the Celtics won 11 championships, including 8 in a row! (So two more than Jordan's 6-0 streak.) They lost two in the late 50s. Caveat: There weren't many teams back then, and the lane was narrower so it was a center's game. I mean, who's going to average 50 points a game or score 100 like Chamberlain did? However on pure #winning, Russell is the gold standard - he blows Jordan out of the water.

Kareem won 6 with two teams, but I'd say he was second banana on those Lakers teams. He powered one of the greatest teams of all time, the 1971 Bucks, as a very young man. The also lost a close one in 1974.

I've seen this written elsewhere but - if I were putting money on a game of one on one, Jordan would get the nod. If I were picking teams for 5-on-5, and I had first pick, it's a no-brainer: Lebron James. He seems to me the superior basketball player. But that's by a hair.

I love the 90s Bulls and to me watching Jordan was like getting to watch Ali or Ruth or Jim Brown. I knew he was the best ever and enjoyed it.

Anyway this will all be moot in 15 years when Antetokounmpo wins his 10th ring.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Curry is the only player today anywhere near able to compete with LeBron today. And even then, Curry is the better player and LeBron the athlete.

This is an irresonspibly silly statement. Curry is no where near as good or valuable as LeBron James. One could make the case he is more "skilled," but that doesn't count for much.

Curry is the fourth best player in the NBA, behind LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, and Kevin Durant.

 

[zekko]

Basketball is a team sport. I've never understood the "undefeated in finals" argument. If Jordan had gone to a seventh final and lost, would that have wrecked his legacy? Getting to another finals would be another accomplishment.