mystery method bootcamp -- anyone here gone to one?

[Derek Flint]

As for 48 Laws of Power, I don't need to engage in low-life behavior like being Manipulative and being a Back Stabber. It's not what real men do, or need to do.

As for Peacocking, I stand out from the crowd with my words and actions, not by dressing like a Faggot, wearing nail polish and make-up.

 

[xdreamz]

in my opinion, mystery method is great in understanding social situations and types of lines that would best suit the type of results you want. but there are too many routines and stuff that are downright fake and useless if you ask me.

i've seen some of his DVD's and they're ok with some alright stories he includes "fake it till you make it" is his line which i guess is a proper way to put all this stuff.


i liked how he put all these kinds of different ideas for comfort material and attraction material (DHV stuff) false disqualifyers, reverse role playing, compliance even interesting things to talk about, that kind of stuff is classic.

btw 48 laws of power is a great book i would recommend it to anybody....

 

[zerocelcius]

in my opinion, mystery method is great in understanding social situations and types of lines that would best suit the type of results you want. but there are too many routines and stuff that are downright fake and useless if you ask me.

i've seen some of his DVD's and they're ok with some alright stories he includes "fake it till you make it" is his line which i guess is a proper way to put all this stuff.


i liked how he put all these kinds of different ideas for comfort material and attraction material (DHV stuff) false disqualifyers, reverse role playing, compliance even interesting things to talk about, that kind of stuff is classic.

btw 48 laws of power is a great book i would recommend it to anybody....

How can you say MM is too fake, but recommend "48 Laws of Power"?

 

[zerocelcius]

The "48 Laws of Power" are based on false everything, manipulating, and back stabbing. Should we save our money and not buy that book too?

Quotes from 48 Laws:

“You can recognize these supposed nonplayers by the way they flaunt their moral qualities, their piety, their exquisite sense of justice. But since all of us hunger for power, and almost all of our actions are aimed at gaining it, the nonplayers are merely throwing dust in our eyes, distracting us from their power plays with their air of moral superiority. If you observe them closely, you will see in fact that they are often the ones most skillful at indirect manipulation, even if some of them practice it unconsciously. And they greatly resent any publicizing of the tactics they use everyday.


Law 3 – Conceal your intentions
Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. (Not very DA is it) If they have no clue what you are up to, they cannot prepare a defense. (Sounds like credit for the MM to me) Guide them far enough down the wrong path, envelop them in enough smoke, and by the time they realize your intentions, it will be too late.


Law 6 – Court Attention At all Cost (peacocking?)
Everything is judged by its appearance; what is unseen counts for nothing. Never let yourself get lost in the crowd, then, or buried in oblivion. Stand out. Be conspicuous, at all cost. Make yourself a magnet of attention by appearing larger, more colorful, more mysterious than the bland and timid masses. (IS that not peacocking…and it is in 48 Laws of Power… things that make you go hmmm)!

Law 7 – Get others to do the work for you, but take the credit… (Manipulating and Back Stabbing… )

Law 14 – Pose as a friend, work as a spy…(manipulating and back stabbing)

“If, like the courtier of times gone by, you can master the arts of indirection, learning to seduce, charm, deceive, and subtly outmaneuver your opponents, you will attain the heights of power. You will be able to make people bend to your will without their realizing what you have done. And if they do not realize what you have done, they will neither resent nor resist you.”

All material except that enclosed in (brackets) are from: THE 48 LAWS OF POWER – ROBERT GREENE

 

[spesmilitis]

This thread has some good insight on MM:
http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=16805

I'm sure most people here respect the opinions of Tucker Max, esp the Robert Greene fans as they are good friends. This is what Tucker has to say about him:

"1. Mystery is transparently insecure. It's painful to watch him on camera, I am disappointed that the producers didnt help or coach him more for his on camera presence. I guess you can't socially construct confidence, can you? It has to really be there."

"I have no idea who you are or how much you know about this, it is probably much more than me, but all I can tell you is what Neil Strauss told me at dinner, the same dinner when I introduced him Robert Greene and Bunny: He still has the same girlfriend from the book, and still hasn't had a threesome. This was like a year ago though, so whatever."

"A house built on a bad foundation is destined to fall. Mysteries Method is a nice house built on a bad foundation. Yeah, that is better than being homeless, but you can get a good foundation if you try, and a good foundation not only lasts, it ultimately works much better then a bad one."

Where you can directly find most of his posts on this subject here:
http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/search.php?searchid=2390156&pp=25&page=13

 

[Phyzzle]

My contribution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0mU3sB0quw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzjExe0XsA&NR=1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5cgmIMvgYY0&mode=related&search=

If that's your cup of tea, then get into the Mystery Method.

The MM is based on false time constraints, fake DHV, fake stories, fake opinion openers that you don't have the slightest interest in what the answer is, manipulation, "negs" to lower her value because you're perceiving hers as being higher than yours, hiding your interest, even pretending to be Gay, looking like some kind of fag by "peacocking" and a bunch of other gimmicks and tricks that are external and doesn't do much for your inner game.

Yes, the openers seem wussy, or even deceptive, but they work. Walking up and saying, "hi, you look interesting, what's your name," is more manly, but you generally tend to get blown off FAST. Which you can look at as good or bad.

 

[Dongfu]

Damn, $3,000 for Mystery's boot camp! Wowsers!:crazy:

Is there anything you're going to learn at his bootcamp that you can't learn from buying his much cheaper materials? Or even watching his coaching on his reality show?

Yeah, for 3 geez you could fly to Thailand, eat like a king and fvck girls everynight for a month, and still have enough left over to buy a copy of the Mystery Method.

I'll take door #2

 

[zerocelcius]

What about the fact that Robert Greene says the same stuff that Mystery says? Both in “The 48 Laws of Power” and “The Art of Seduction”!

It seems that people are using the Approach as the basis for their decision. Every Approach is fake. You don’t know this person and who says you even want to? YET you go up and talk to them and act friendly. You are not their Friend. SO in essence you are being fake. Social settings where interactions accrue are fake. You have to fake it until you make it, because there is no substance to be true too, until you create it. That is the game.

Yes MM uses fake routines and time constraints, if you consider social fluff talk fake. Otherwise it is as real as any other social interaction. Most of the stuff we talk about to strangers or friends is just regurgitated from something in our life. Very little of the conversations or ideas are actually original. It is just twisted and blended in our minds and we convey it through language.

On the other side MM actually confronts the social dynamics. What other method actually address the social and psychological aspects of the PU?

IMO there is no difference other than vocabulary between Greene and Mystery.

 

[Dongfu]

What about the fact that Robert Greene says the same stuff that Mystery says? Both in “The 48 Laws of Power” and “The Art of Seduction”!

It seems that people are using the Approach as the basis for their decision. Every Approach is fake. You don’t know this person and who says you even want to? YET you go up and talk to them and act friendly. You are not their Friend. SO in essence you are being fake. Social settings where interactions accrue are fake. You have to fake it until you make it, because there is no substance to be true too, until you create it. That is the game.

Yes MM uses fake routines and time constraints, if you consider social fluff talk fake. Otherwise it is as real as any other social interaction. Most of the stuff we talk about to strangers or friends is just regurgitated from something in our life. Very little of the conversations or ideas are actually original. It is just twisted and blended in our minds and we convey it through language.

On the other side MM actually confronts the social dynamics. What other method actually address the social and psychological aspects of the PU?

IMO there is no difference other than vocabulary between Greene and Mystery.

Nice - Someone who knows WTF they're talking about

 

[spesmilitis]

It seems that people are using the Approach as the basis for their decision. Every Approach is fake. You don’t know this person and who says you even want to? YET you go up and talk to them and act friendly. You are not their Friend. SO in essence you are being fake. Social settings where interactions accrue are fake. You have to fake it until you make it, because there is no substance to be true too, until you create it. That is the game.

Girls want to talk to guys they never met. Guys want to talk to girls they never met. Guys approaching girls is a way to accomplish that. What is so fake about that?

You make it seem that girls only go to clubs and parties just to hang out with their friends, and whenever a guy successfully hits on one, its because he 'tricked' her somehow.

 

[zerocelcius]

Girls want to talk to guys they never met. Guys want to talk to girls they never met. Guys approaching girls is a way to accomplish that. What is so fake about that?

You make it seem that girls only go to clubs and parties just to hang out with their friends, and whenever a guy successfully hits on one, its because he 'tricked' her somehow.

I am saying the opposite. I am saying that using a routine is just as real as coming up with something original.

Your right the girl and guy never met so no matter what they talk about, or how they go about it is fake. The same as if you used a planned routine.

What I am saying is that if you use MM there is no difference than regurgitating something out of your schisms. Everything we say or think in this life came from something else.

Something we read, saw, heard, learned, etc....

MM is just as real as every day social encounters. It would be the same as thinking a few times in your head, what you are going to say. Or rehearsing it in a mirror so you don't look fake. Just one took more time.

However; my real point was that Greene and Mystery say the exact same thing. Where Greene uses a broader vocabulary - Mystery uses more social and psychological terms.

 

[ChrizZ]

Well mystery says it all comes down to three things in life that make us feel complete and happy.

HEALTH, WEALTH AND LOVE

Furthermore he says if you aren't fully satisfied with any of these areas you must develop the drive to master the above mentioned to ensure your Survival and Replication instincts. In other words he tells you to become a DJ!
If you don't pay attention to one or more of the above mentioned areas of your life, it will affect all the other areas of your life.

Worst case scenario: You become sick, poor and lonely.

So the big question here is how do I master those areas?

The answer is that you need a gameplan. You have a workout plan for your health. You have a certain gameplan in what you want to do with your life in order to become financially successful.

So why not have a gameplan if you want to be successful with women (love)?

I don't see a problem here. We are designed to mate. Does it really matter how we do it or the techniques we use to achieve that?

I don't think so.

It's like playing a round of golf. There are no pictures on the scorecard. All that counts is the score.

I believe it is possible and maybe even necessary to be both a DJ and a PUA in order to fullfill all your needs...

my 2 cents...

 

[Bonhomme]

I suppose if you're so rich you could wipe your ass with $100 bills it might be worthwhile ... at least for entertainment purposes.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Well mystery says it all comes down to three things in life that make us feel complete and happy.

HEALTH, WEALTH AND LOVE

Furthermore he says if you aren't fully satisfied with any of these areas you must develop the drive to master the above mentioned to ensure your Survival and Replication instincts. In other words he tells you to become a DJ!
If you don't pay attention to one or more of the above mentioned areas of your life, it will affect all the other areas of your life.

Worst case scenario: You become sick, poor and lonely.

So the big question here is how do I master those areas?

The answer is that you need a gameplan. You have a workout plan for your health. You have a certain gameplan in what you want to do with your life in order to become financially successful.

So why not have a gameplan if you want to be successful with women (love)?

I don't see a problem here. We are designed to mate. Does it really matter how we do it or the techniques we use to achieve that?

I don't think so.

It's like playing a round of golf. There are no pictures on the scorecard. All that counts is the score.

I believe it is possible and maybe even necessary to be both a DJ and a PUA in order to fullfill all your needs...

my 2 cents...

Not bad, sounds like you've got a good grasp of what Mystery talks about and the need to tweak it to make the concepts even more effective.

 

[spesmilitis]

I am saying the opposite. I am saying that using a routine is just as real as coming up with something original.

Your right the girl and guy never met so no matter what they talk about, or how they go about it is fake. The same as if you used a planned routine.

What I am saying is that if you use MM there is no difference than regurgitating something out of your schisms. Everything we say or think in this life came from something else.

Something we read, saw, heard, learned, etc....

MM is just as real as every day social encounters. It would be the same as thinking a few times in your head, what you are going to say. Or rehearsing it in a mirror so you don't look fake. Just one took more time.

However; my real point was that Greene and Mystery say the exact same thing. Where Greene uses a broader vocabulary - Mystery uses more social and psychological terms.

What do you mean by fake?

 

[zerocelcius]

What I mean is the essence of the convo.

You can say "Hi" (but what does that mean?)
You can say "where you from" (but is that really what you want to know?)
It is all Fake. That is why they call it Fluff talk.
It is cheesy, but we have to do it. Nobody would just go up and tell the truth.

Like this: "I find you attractive, I want to f&*K you in every position of the karma sutra, and leave you for a younger girl when I'm good and ready."

Now that is the truth. Trust me if you said that you would get a very real answer. :kick:

What I meant by fake was. When you talk to somebody you have an intention. It is the theory behind DA. They think that by going up and saying some thing plane they are saying something real. However; they are just as fake as everyone else.

Talking to a stranger is normal and it is normal to be fake. Everyone is fake in essence. It is why they call it a game.

If you have done the boot camp you know in the first week exactly what I am talking about. All those "hi"s you have to get seem fake. They don't seem like that is normal. By the end of the week it seems better. It seems like you can say hi to anybody (or it should). That is “Fake it till you make it.” You don't care about those people. You might a little after they say "HI", but not before.

That is where I am going with this. Don't you see how social interactions are in essence fake. You could say anything. You could go up to a stranger (instead of saying HI, How are you, what's your name, etc) and say "Blue Drops of Yesterday Fall from the Eyes of a Weeping Tomorrow."

Who knows what reaction you would get but you could say it.

What you say to somebody is really a method of controlling the response you receive from them. You don't want to be rejected so you try to say the best thing you can. Others put worth into phrases trying to feel morally superior to others because the continents and vowels they udder mean more or they are being true to themselves. It is all crap. Fake as can be.

The reality is in the essence, in the wanting of a response, and in the fear of rejection. Social dynamics are complex. To really explain everything would take text books of information. It all seems normal and real, but it isn’t. It is bred into us from the time humans became social. When you step back and look at it from a distance you will see it.
Look up Social Dynamics, Dynamical Systems, Group Dynamics, Memetics, Social Psychology, Sociobiology, and Sociocultural Evolution and you will get a better explanation than I could ever give you.

 

[don piccolo]

my theory is: 'Francisco d'Anconia' is either the man 'Mystery' himself, or otherwise in his employ. I'm not trying to flame the guy, just making an unbiased observation, based upon his un-critical endorsement of Mystery's stuff...Mystery is quite clearly a charlatan in my view.

 

[persiangino]

"Social Dynamics" is a backdrop for herd mentality so insecure little boys and girls can come together to express their "unconscious" emotions. If your trying to be a true player you must, unfortunately, practice "Social Dynamics" on the surface but also build up your individual mind (ie your inner game). )Once you build your individual mind you will improve your overall communication which consitutes more then 90% of communication (ie your body language).

Again, if you only build up a fake outer appearence for society without a solid foundation inside you are doomed to be another sheep in the crowd. From what i've seen on camera, mystery seems like a insecure guy trying to stand out from the crowd but lacking the sufficient inner game to do so without looking like a fool.

 

[spesmilitis]

@ Zerocelcius

When I say 'Hi', it means I greet you and am curious about you.
When I say 'where are you from', it means I'm curious about where you are from and other stuff about you.

Yes, people have an intention when they approach, but if the approacher and approachee both know it, why is it fake?

Yes, there is fluff talk. In fluff talk, people learn key things about the other's personality, sexuality, and individuality. That's all there is to it. Maybe you rehearsed some bs question or joke, but the purpose of those jokes and questions are to reveal things about each other's personality. Unless you lie during that process, why is it fake?

I can understand why to some may consider this to be be fake. Some of those people just might want to get into someones pants and not give a care about that person's personality. This is what MM's and his followers attitudes to approaching is. You can tell this from the fake ice breaker he gave to his follows: "did you guys just see the fight outside?". This is exactly what Tucker Max criticizes about MM.

It seems that we have different perspectives on 'game'. Your's is to optimize your ability to hook up with girls. Mine's is based in interacting with people and having fun. The two approaches are good for different people. People who are not successful in other areas of life (work, academics, friends, sports) will be more successful using your method. But, for people who are successful in other areas of life have a taste of genuine confidence and are generally intelligent and creative. Being themselves is more than good enough. For people who are not successful in other areas of life, I would recommend working on those other areas of life instead of developing a 'fake' game.

Using tips and tricks may be effective, but nothing compares to the intelligence and creativity of the human mind.

 

[spesmilitis]

"Social Dynamics" is a backdrop for herd mentality so insecure little boys and girls can come together to express their "unconscious" emotions. If your trying to be a true player you must, unfortunately, practice "Social Dynamics" on the surface but also build up your individual mind (ie your inner game). )Once you build your individual mind you will improve your overall communication which consitutes more then 90% of communication (ie your body language).

Again, if you only build up a fake outer appearence for society without a solid foundation inside you are doomed to be another sheep in the crowd. From what i've seen on camera, mystery seems like a insecure guy trying to stand out from the crowd but lacking the sufficient inner game to do so without looking like a fool.

Exactly. Sure, those neat tricks and tips may be effective. That is because those are general reactions of successful/confident people who are reacting to their natural instincts, not tricks that they were taught. I find that I do a lot of the tips posted in the tips forum here out of natural instincts. Because those things already make sense for me to do em.

my theory is: 'Francisco d'Anconia' is either the man 'Mystery' himself, or otherwise in his employ. I'm not trying to flame the guy, just making an unbiased observation, based upon his un-critical endorsement of Mystery's stuff...Mystery is quite clearly a charlatan in my view.

I figured that francisco is some sort of charlatan from an exchange I had with him on this thread:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128869