My week from Online dating apps - LRs

[characternote]

@corrector - you keep dodging his question lol. Tell him what you think amazing 'game' is.

But essentially, there's an 'idea' that 'great game' is the elderly, broke, 5ft burns victim who uses his amazing 'verbals' and 'body language' to bang super hot 18 year old models. But of course this is just fiction. Infield footaage from 'pro coaches' gives us the best idea of what is possible, and in reality, it's very far from being super impressive/mind blowing (it's basically guys banging girls on their looks level, and girls who are receptive to the approach. If they are clearly not into him at the open, his 'game' is powerless)

So essentially, we are all banging 'greens'. And that's certainly what cheeky is doing (and since he's running passport game, he's able to much much easier find 'greens') - there's nothing wrong with it. Nobody has some jedi mind trick level of 'game' where they can compel attraction in any girl they want (i.e bang reds)

 

[Cheeky_James]

@corrector - you keep dodging his question lol. Tell him what you think amazing 'game' is.

But essentially, there's an 'idea' that 'great game' is the elderly, broke, 5ft burns victim who uses his amazing 'verbals' and 'body language' to bang super hot 18 year old models. But of course this is just fiction. Infield footaage from 'pro coaches' gives us the best idea of what is possible, and in reality, it's very far from being super impressive/mind blowing (it's basically guys banging girls on their looks level, and girls who are receptive to the approach. If they are clearly not into him at the open, his 'game' is powerless)

So essentially, we are all banging 'greens'. And that's certainly what cheeky is doing (and since he's running passport game, he's able to much much easier find 'greens') - there's nothing wrong with it. Nobody has some jedi mind trick level of 'game' where they can compel attraction in any girl they want (i.e bang reds)

Very funny description of Great Game there CharacterNote
Reminds me of an old ‘Swinggcat’ audio course..
“He was average looking and badly dressed, with shaggy hair and a gut like a bowling ball… but yet, he was irresistible to women. His secret ? He framed himself as a PRIZE that THEY had to win over !!”

All jokes aside…

this word “Game” has widened so much from its origins .

in the book The Game by Strauss .. I took it as meaning in long form ‘The Game Of Manipulation’.
Ie Mystery Method was various Manipulation Tactics to give the perception of Higher Status , using various ideas around Disinterest, Qualifying, Prize Framing etc
To get the woman to chase and invest.

but it was ‘created’ by a man that was 6.5” Tall ,had Good Looks, and was an Entertainer persona which seemed to have been discounted by him, and everyone else , as a factor to his success with his method

Shorty guy Neil Strauss had pretty good success with it, but did a complete transformation ( to a huge degree) and became an Alter Ego./fake identity There was quite bad side effects and downsides to this transformation also. He went to greater lengths with learning manipulation tactics.

btw - does anyone run MM anymore?
————————-
I prefer the term ‘seduction’ and its dictionary definiton.

or Game as in ‘Mind-Game’ or ‘Psychological Games’.

Just Banter itself is a Game. To come out on top.

idk what I’m saying tbh, but maybe the aspect of Dominance is what is the important element to me.
Dominance is a big turn on for women.
Mental and Verbal Dominance is ‘The Game’ to me firstly. To get to the physical.

So I do still have to Game chicks online.
Have good Banter, use some framing ideas…pass some tests ..and build ‘the Dominant vibe’.

and show up with that same energy in person.

maybe I could get my process down to one text-
” DTF?” and just play the numbers harder. Idk.
Apparently some high Value guys play it that way.
Chad guys I suppose.

that’d be cool.

 

[characternote]

have you seen mysteries infields? I'd argue that his 'game' (personality) done more harm than good! He often seemed very odd and it was only due to his very clear social proof/low level fame/height etc, that the women put up with it. Not to mention the infields showed him hooking up with women who were typically older and not as 'hot' as he was. And also not even a lay! (just make outs). He'd have had more success just being 'normal' or just being DIRECT for example. Certain PUA's with a much much more basic skillset have more proof of getting laid


As for Neil, As a very successful journalist, he moved in these high-status circles professionally. His success was not an isolated feat of 'game' overcoming his short stature or plain looks. It was a case where his existing fame as a bestselling author and his high-status social proof from working with rock bands and celebrities did the vast majority of the heavy lifting. Not to mention we actually have almost zero proof of his cold approach success. We can all write books telling people what superstuds we are (chase amante, dan bacon etc have the current market share of that PUA's without any proof/infield category )

 

[Cheeky_James]

have you seen mysteries infields? I'd argue that his 'game' (personality) done more harm than good! He often seemed very odd and it was only due to his very clear social proof/low level fame/height etc, that the women put up with it. Not to mention the infields showed him hooking up with women who were typically older and not as 'hot' as he was. And also not even a lay! (just make outs). He'd have had more success just being 'normal' or just being DIRECT for example. Certain PUA's with a much much more basic skillset have more proof of getting laid


As for Neil, As a very successful journalist, he moved in these high-status circles professionally. His success was not an isolated feat of 'game' overcoming his short stature or plain looks. It was a case where his existing fame as a bestselling author and his high-status social proof from working with rock bands and celebrities did the vast majority of the heavy lifting. Not to mention we actually have almost zero proof of his cold approach success. We can all write books telling people what superstuds we are (chase amante, dan bacon etc have the current market share of that PUA's without any proof/infield category )

yeah. Pretty true re Mystery that . He over did it .
And his whole ‘Fools Mate’ idea. I believe he did have a stripper GF younger years but.. (?) not sure what happened after that. He’s pretty cooked.

I’d argue Neil Strauss is the only real zero-to-hero success story. He gave himself a pretty massive makeover Looks wise. he did have cash and social circle /status , yeah. But had that before he joined The Community also, and was useless with women then.
he completely changed his looks and personality.
And learned how to manipulate and play mind games quite well. Then levered his clout on top of that I reckon, after the change,

 

[characternote]

yes. I think he was just retarded when it came to girls. He learnt how to 'leverage' his prior fame/success/connections etc. But most of the stuff people say about him is so overblown and shows a lack of understanding. He didn't learn some lines and tricks to suddenly make him irresistable to women lol

 

[Lotus Effect]

Sorry to barge in

but it is a stupid discussion of what game is or is not

the only game is within yourself
The only game is against your limiting beliefs
The only game is showing up at the gym everyday
The only game is eating clean and taking care of your health
The only game is striving to be 0.1 better than you were yesterday, physically, emotionally and financially

get your shlt together
Do things you dislike
Don’t succumb to indulgences

everything else comes along, women as well

 

[Cheeky_James]

Sorry to barge in

but it is a stupid discussion of what game is or is not

the only game is within yourself
The only game is against your limiting beliefs
The only game is showing up at the gym everyday
The only game is eating clean and taking care of your health
The only game is striving to be 0.1 better than you were yesterday, physically, emotionally and financially

get your shlt together
Do things you dislike
Don’t succumb to indulgences

everything else comes along, women as well

well LE, with all due respect,
That’s your take on what Game means.
I take it ‘Game’ on this forum = ‘becoming the best version of yourself as man , authentically.’

but older meanings of ‘Game’ in old school PUA (its origins) all relate to using manipulation tactics and strategies. It was all about manipulating the womans perception of your Value as a man.

And it’s funny that this “authentic self improvement’ is the go on this forum as the forum is named ‘SoSuave’.

As the dictionary Definition of ‘Suave ‘ includes a core element of being insincere - ie ‘fake’.

as does the word ‘charming’ or being a Charmer.

So that being, becoming a a Charming, Suave Seducer therefore includes elements of being an insincere, fake manipulator.(!) by the dictionary definitions of those words .. and that’s a fact !

it’s all pretty confusing to me tbh. There’s a lot of cross pollination of ideas and terms going on on forums.

I’d raise a question /concern re this authentic self improvement - if a guy takes this path as being Game.. and maxxes out every area ‘authentically’, and then at the end of this, finds ‘Hot Women’ are not actually not waiting at the end of this improvement process….they are still not within his reach .What then? Cos this can happen IRL afaics. And also - there is no timeframe for self improvement , as it’s self measured.
it can go on , forever , for decades.
It’s a pretty Long Game approach. Hard to measure results tbh. And other factors , like just growing older in the dating market, cloud the results.

 

[Cheeky_James]

yes. I think he was just retarded when it came to girls. He learnt how to 'leverage' his prior fame/success/connections etc. But most of the stuff people say about him is so overblown and shows a lack of understanding. He didn't learn some lines and tricks to suddenly make him irresistable to women lol

Do u mean Strauss/ Style or Mystery here?
With regards Strauss. I’d disagree, he’s a *very.* skilled manipulator by all accounts. By the accounts of other coach guys who spent time w him.
I’ll dig up some old stuff and post .
There’s an old PUA guy that did a great analysis of all of these older Gurus and their advantages etc

that old PuA Jon Sinn summarised it well imo.
He was known as an ‘encyclopaedia of Game’ and studied everything.

To quote him;

“There are 2 paths to becoming more successful with women

1. Become a Great Guy (authenticity)
2. Become a Great Manipulator. (Inauthenticity)

either way can lead to reaults.

1. Is a Long Term process
2. Is a shorter Term process.

the former yields better relationships
The latter can yield good short term results but backfires in relationships, as women aren’t stupid and will figure out the guy isn’t actually as she perceived him initially.

Another old phrase that applies to the latter.

“anything a person gains through manipulation they will ultimately lose”

so that’s about the size of it for me.

 

[Lotus Effect]

I take it ‘Game’ on this forum = ‘becoming the best version of yourself as man , authentically.’

So, you agree with me

 

[Cheeky_James]

So, you agree with me

hmmm, only partially.
All you have listed is good stuff sure, self improvement is necessary yes, but only up to a point (of diminishing returns)
Based on what you described as Game , the results a guy may want, may not “just come” as a result of just these improvement actions afaics.
Looking at reality.

your description is missing important elements of Game to me

there’s nothing there that covers
- understanding women and female psychology
- understanding women’s sexuality and preferences
- improving communications , languaging, indirect talk and especially Frames of language with women
- strategies of Game based on social psychology that can be used as levers with women to get quicker results. Ie Social Proof , Status elements.

So quite a bit missing, and there mayhe even more levers missing idk.

Unless they are somehow included in your description.
your descriptions use pretty broad terms tho.
It’s general male self improvement stuff.

TL: DR more specific skills development is necessary imo. And is missing from your definiton of Game.

To me Great Game = understanding women to a high degree, and definitely high level /smart communications with them.

 

[Lotus Effect]

At 42 I suppose you already have a good understanding of them

and if you focus on the things I said you will have an interesting enough life to talk about when you’re around them

if you do those things with the intent of getting women tho, than that’s nice guy mindset, ie covert contracts, and you will get frustrated if you don’t get them

but if you do it for the purpose of improving yourself everything else comes naturally and effortlessly

there will always be chicks who are attracted to you and chicks who are not

if you’re confident enough in your life you will get those signs from the ones who are and you will act accordingly

Manipulation game, ie, mistery method and such may get you laid, but it’s not useful for the long term as attraction was forcibly created

focus on your self
Rule 8: getting the girl is not the success

 

[Cheeky_James]

At 42 I suppose you already have a good understanding of them

and if you focus on the things I said you will have an interesting enough life to talk about when you’re around them

if you do those things with the intent of getting women tho, than that’s nice guy mindset, ie covert contracts, and you will get frustrated if you don’t get them

but if you do it for the purpose of improving yourself everything else comes naturally and effortlessly

there will always be chicks who are attracted to you and chicks who are not

if you’re confident enough in your life you will get those signs from the ones who are and you will act accordingly

Manipulation game, ie, mistery method and such may get you laid, but it’s not useful for the long term as attraction was forcibly created

focus on your self
Rule 8: getting the girl is not the success

yes I have a good understanding at this stage.

re the success - it depends what a guy wants.
If he wants a rotation and threesomes .
Getting the girls is necessary, to get that result.

plus , you’ve already done all that, maybe your goals and idea of Game has changed since then, just sayin….

 

[Bokanovsky]

I'll add hobbies, interests, gym time, hanging with guys time, and studying and/or working.

OP is playing a dangerous game by spending so much time immersed in OLD apps and going out with women that chew up his time and money, especially at age 42.

I'll say it for the N’th time: Women should be a fun side dish on your plate of food, not the main course.

Good luck.

Agreed. I don't see the point of collecting notches by having sex with a large number of mediocre women. Once you're out of your virgin/inexperienced stage, your focus should be on quality, not quantity.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Agreed. I don't see the point of collecting notches by having sex with a large number of mediocre women. Once you're out of your virgin/inexperienced stage, your focus should be on quality, not quantity.

Well .. they are not ALL mediocre Boranovsky!
only some
But what about next level experiences, kinky stuff, threesomes, filthy stuff…sex clubs and the like. They can be pretty good for that!

depends what a guy is looking for.
2 x fives at the same time. may well equal a 10
That’s solid math.

I could work harder and get a better looking chick sure…who doesn’t give bl0wjobs and won’t take it up the ass. I may not end up happy.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Tbh (and this is egotistical I know).. I approach fhings like I am a male escort.
And try to give that experience.
I front load all of my sexy value on the app. And try to give the ladies the porno star experience in the sack. The good sex is what I try to ‘sell’ to them. Plus the nice smooth /fun/ hot emotional experience moving towards the hot sexytimes.( The smooth ‘Wettening’ I’d call that )

this means I don’t always get the hottest chicks,
As my base SMV = Chad Lite / sexy foreigner.
And I can’t be bothered to’Game’ the hotter ones most of the time.

They take a bit more ‘tuning’ ime and tend to be cagier and testier re persuing me. These types know their value and may hold out for the better offers. (Whatever that may be)

maybe I just need to be bolder w those ones( idk?)
So I get a mix of ladies , types and quality wise IRL.
But I’m ok w that, as I like variety.

This is my synopsis of my “Game “.

CJ

Male escorts typically get paid. Since you don't, what's your motivation? Trying to give the "pornstar experience" to a large number of not very attractive women does not sound particularly fun. On the contrary, it sounds pretty tedious and a bit disgusting. Is this some kind of a community service/humanitarian effort on your part or what?

 

[Cheeky_James]

Male escorts typically get paid. Since you don't, what's your motivation? Trying to give the "pornstar experience" to a large number of not very attractive women does not sound particularly fun. On the contrary, it sounds pretty tedious and a bit disgusting. Is this some kind of a community service/humanitarian effort on your part or what?

why the hate? I’m having fun.

you haven’t seen these women B.
Show me your stunners mate (?)
Beauty is often only a light dimmer away buddy!
Some hot chicks are dud roots tbh also.

a reverse question is - why do you want a stunner..
Sex gets old , even with the hot ones.
I like variety, and some more average looking chicks sometimes have The Magic Pvssy.
Plus the chicks I go for are the kinky ones nowadays - that means ..new stuff, threesomes , sex shops. Sex toys, Sex clubs, Videotaping ,novelty. Etc etc
YMMV.

 

[Bokanovsky]

why the hate? I’m having fun.

you haven’t seen these women B.
Show me your stunners mate (?)
Beauty is often only a light dimmer away buddy!
Some hot chicks are dud roots tbh.

a reverse question is - why do you want a stunner..
Sex gets old , even with the hot ones.
I like variety, and some more average looking chicks sometimes have The Magic Pvssy.
Plus the chicks I go for are the kinky ones nowadays - that means ..new stuff, threesomes , sex shops. Sex toys, novelty. Etc etc
YMMV.

Oh I'm not hating at all. If it came out that way, it wasn't my intent. I'm just genuinely curious as to why you are doing it. One thing I've realized a long time ago is that no two men think alike. So when I hear something that I can't personally relate to, it peaks my curiously.

My assumption that these women are not very attractive is based on (a) the fact that they are down for Netflix and chill on the first date (let's face it, attractive women rarely do this) and (b) your own description ("I can’t be bothered to ’Game’ the hotter ones most of the time").

a reverse question is - why do you want a stunner..
Sex gets old , even with the hot ones.
I like variety, and some more average looking chicks sometimes have The Magic Pvssy.
Plus the chicks I go for are the kinky ones nowadays - that means ..new stuff, threesomes , sex shops. Sex toys, Sex clubs, Videotaping ,novelty. Etc etc
YMMV.

I like nice things. Whether it's a house, a car, a watch or a woman. This is especially true of women you have no serious designs for. The are accessories to your lifestyle.

 

[SmoothHendrixPS2]

Game is inner game. Not a tactic, plan or script. Women want to F**k men who have mastered their inner game IE Unfazed, indifferent, non emotional, detached, stoic, bold, dangerous, sexual.... All personality traits, NOT tactics. Classic white knight and incel men have a hatred for men who get it effortlessly, and that's what's so brutal about the dating game. If you haven't made improvements in yourself than you have nobody to blame but YOURSELF.

 

[SmoothHendrixPS2]

I find it funny how dudes will seek out success but when someone posts success they start downplaying it

hate is a female trait.

Let the man get his rocks off... he'll learn what comes with his actions for better or worse.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Oh I'm not hating at all. If it came out that way, it wasn't my intent. I'm just genuinely curious as to why you are doing it. One thing I've realized a long time ago is that no two men think alike. So when I hear something that I can't personally relate to, it peaks my curiously.

My assumption that these women are not very attractive is based on (a) the fact that they are down for Netflix and chill on the first date (let's face it, attractive women rarely do this) and (b) your own description ("I can’t be bothered to ’Game’ the hotter ones most of the time").

In answer to first part - because I like women and I like sex , lots of it and lots of variety. That was always my objective with learning Game/Pickup/Seduction.

And I like being a “seducer” , I enjoy the thrill of the chase/ pickup as well as the Kill (of the pvssy ) at the end.
I’m moving into Kink territory now. ‘Higher level ‘ sex experiences.
And I like getting chicks off and getting better in bed. Learning more.
Pretty amazing how well a woman can pamper a guy after he really rocks her. What else can I say?

re the quality. Yeah I’ll be honest it’s mixed , but there’s been a fair -% of hot ones in the mix.
My current squeeze looks like Lucy Lee the OF chick. Asian , great body. Sexy AF. Pornstar in the sack. Happy days

I like nice things. Whether it's a house, a car, a watch or a woman. This is especially true of women you have no serious designs for. The are accessories to your lifestyle.

yes. Of course. I’d like Pamela Anderson in her prime.
But these hot women know their value dude.
They can be hot bimbos but they are not dumb.
They know the power of the pvssy.
they will negotiate for the full package , the full LTR deal not just a casual fling or Situationship. (Usually) that’s Girl Game.

They will go for a hotter guy than me for that casual FwB stuff. a hot bad boy. and that’s a Fact. Cos any hot chick has the choice of mucho ****s on offer.
Economics of supply and demand etc.