My plan. (please rate)

[Sean O]

Okay, first a little background information on what's happened so far. I'm 17, as is Natalie, the girl in question. She was in two of my classes last semester. During that time, she added me on MSN, and we talked occasionally both in class and over MSN, although we didn't get to know each other that well. Before march break, she and I were talking on MSN and I asked her why we hadn't chilled at all yet, and she then gave me her cell number. I didn't actually use it until last tuesday, where I invited her to come with some of my friends and I to chill on Friday night. She said she was busy, but then told me she was free on Saturday, so I said I would see if I could line something up. I talked to her again on Friday, and said that none of my people were available for Saturday, so it would just be her and I. She said that sounded good, and told me to call her some time after 7.

I called using my cell (through which I've talked to her before) at 7:20, with no answer. I waited 5 minutes, called using my house phone (through which I have not talked to her before), got no answer. I waited another 15 minutes, called once more using my cell, with no answer, so I left a message saying "Hey Natalie, it's Sean. Give me a call when you get this message. Bye." She didn't call back, but at around 9:30 my friend Katherine called me, so I just went out and chilled with her.

Anyway, my plan to deal with this is to wait until I see her in person at school, jokingly "scold" her for flaking out, then to tell her that it was no big deal, since I chilled with Katherine (I don't plan on referring to Katherine as a "friend", even though she is). Then I'll ask her what happened to her, and after she tells me, I'll say something along the lines of "That's too bad... but hey, there's always next time", but I won't actually try to line something up at that time (I'll probably wait until next week, where I'll try to line something up for the weekend again).

Any thoughts on this?

P.S. My problem has never been my confidence (which has always been high), and I've noticed that I already naturally use the body language and casual touching stuff that's mentioned in some of the articles on this site (I've also used the casual touching on Natalie). I just need to learn how to better deal with the games that these chicks play.

P.P.S. If it's relevent at all, I'd say Natalie is an 8.

 

[toddC]

Okay where do I begin..

hmm...okay, your first mistake was calling her more than 1 time. If you call someone and they don't answer...let THEM return your call. Having her see on her phone 3 missed calls from you is just telling her that you are VERY interested in her and that you were desperate to hang with her.

Next....about the whole seeing her in person thing...I think you should jokingly scold her about flaking like you said HOWEVER..DO NOT bring up that you chilled with the girl Katherine until SHE asks what you did instead. Saying that you hung with Katherine instead is like telling her to get jealous of it which 99.9% of the time WILL NOT work. Wait for her to bring it up and trust me if she has any interst in you at all she will ask you what you did instead of hanging with you. And about your "That's too bad...but hey, there's always next time" line...don't pull that one either...I'd go with something along of the lines of "Hey, w/e you missed out"...saying theres always next times makes her feel like she has control as she just pretty much ditched you and gets no consequence from it. She should be DIEING to hang out with you. You have better things to do than sit around and make plans with her all the time.

Anyways I didn't want to rip you apart but this all should help.
GL with the girl

P.S. If everything goes as I told you it should/could...then you should call her once again this upcoming weekend to hang and if she flakes again NEXT her or wait for her to initiate the plans for when you 2 hang out.

 

[Sean O]

I see what you're saying about the phone calls. In my defense, it's possible that she would not have known that the phone call I made from my house was me, since I've only ever spoken to her through my cell. However, as you said, I should only have called once. By the way, what's your usual policy about leaving messages?

I also see what you're saying about bringing up Katherine to Natalie when I see her. What if, instead of flat out telling her that I saw Katherine, I said something along the lines of "It's no big deal, I had a pretty good night anyway"? That way I can still tell her if she asks me, and it's not like I was trying to get her jealous intentionally.

P.S. If everything goes as I told you it should/could...then you should call her once again this upcoming weekend to hang...

This upcoming weekend, eh? If I were to do that, should I wait until later in the week (i.e. thursday or later) to try to make plans, or should I ask earlier, so that it's less likely that she'll already have plans? Also, would you say I should try to make it just her and I, or should I do what I tried to do the first time and bring her along for plans that I already had?

 

[shydude]

U called her kinda a lot :nono: , Just call one time and wait. Then u did a good thing on going with someone else. NExt time tell her to call u. That way if she will then she is interested..

 

[kev me723]

You followed all her rules. She told you to call at 7 on sat., you did. Make her feel like she missed out on a great time and you will let her know if she can come along when you are doing fun next time.

Yes, YOU will let HER know if SHE can COME ALONG.

 

[dannowillbookem]

if that girl actually read this she would probably be stunned by the amount of thought you put into her.

thats a bad sign.

tell her you called. she'll make some bull**** excuse about her phone being silenced or at work. say 'yeah yeah excuses. calling was a waste of time, i shouldve known. wont happen again.' or something along those lines.

next time she pulls some **** like 'call me at 7' tell her you're making plans now or you're calling another girl. she'll probably do whatever she can to make plans at that point, and if she doesnt you got the time to call someone else. she set you up as a backup plan, and you fell for it like a fool.

 

[six-foot AZN '05]

Hey man, no offense or anything but you got whipped like a dog! Now its time to put you on some super-DJ steroids that that ***** is going to listen to you all of the time.

What I'm about to tell you will sound crazy because, well it is pretty profound.

Ditch her.

Everyone has posted great stuff, but from the first impression this girl seems to be super good at playing with guys and you don't want one of these on your plate. She'd be running circles around you chasing her tail. Get out when you can, before you get emotionally hooked.

 

[LikRetsam]

Benefit of the doubt. She could have had an emergency.

If not, let her know you are disappointed and that she owes you BIG TIME.

 

[LikRetsam]

You followed all her rules. She told you to call at 7 on sat., you did. Make her feel like she missed out on a great time and you will let her know if she can come along when you are doing fun next time.

Yes, YOU will let HER know if SHE can COME ALONG.

He's at fault because he is polite? Oh forgive me.

Oh and six foot, shut up when you have no good advice to give.

 

[Sean O]

if that girl actually read this she would probably be stunned by the amount of thought you put into her.

Haha.... you're not the first person to say something like that to me (not about this specific topic, but in general life). I suppose the best way I can describe this is that I'm a quick thinker and I have a very good analytical mind, which probably comes from my martial arts training and all the chess I've played with my brother and father . Anyway, the stuff I posted earlier really didn't take much time at all for me to think up, and all I was trying to do was think of as many angles as possible. I apologize if I sound conceited here, by the way.

Anyway, I did speak to her today during school, but not in the way I had planned to. My plan was to catch her at her locker, which I pass by anyway on my way from chemistry to my locker, and talk to her there. Instead, I saw her as I we were both rushing to our classes, so all I had time to say to her was "You flaky little *****!" (she knew I was joking). Because of this, my new plan is to not start any conversations with her over msn, and to only give her a friendly greeting if I see her in the halls. If I do decide to try to chill with her later on, it will be, as kev_me said, to bring her along for plans that I already have. From now on, she isn't special enough to make fresh plans for .

On a final note, you'll be glad to know that she isn't the only "prospect" I have right now (a habit I'm glad I picked up from this site), and I got another girl's email today, so the list is growing . Also, thank you for your responses so far.

 

[dannowillbookem]

if that girl actually read this she would probably be stunned by the amount of thought you put into her.

Haha.... you're not the first person to say something like that to me (not about this specific topic, but in general life). I suppose the best way I can describe this is that I'm a quick thinker and I have a very good analytical mind, which probably comes from my martial arts training and all the chess I've played with my brother and father . Anyway, the stuff I posted earlier really didn't take much time at all for me to think up, and all I was trying to do was think of as many angles as possible. I apologize if I sound conceited here, by the way.

stop thinking so much. seriously.

its a good tip i picked up from pooks thing in the 'nice guy vs jerk' section of the bible. first article listed in that section, u cant miss it. honestly thats the only article/thread/whatever you really need. it explains everything. it puts you in the mindset, which is most important, and if you need to you can work out the ******d techniques later.

go read it. and worship it.

 

[dannowillbookem]

hahah does the server censor the word ******?

O U T W A R incase it did...i think its a website

 

[Microphone Fiend]

censorship sucks *crosses fingers that he doesnt get banned or extradited*


Anyways, I read about this situation over on other sites. They have said to "returning fox" her...Im in a good mood so I googled

The Returning Fox theory explained by the originator himself. Ray Parker, ASF:

"A Returning Fox is one who has shown no previous interest in you or rejected you, but who has "returned" and approached you after you have forgotten her. This puts you in a temporary position of power.

With a Returning Fox, you should ask for whatever it is you want from her at the piont of return. If she does not come across, she likely never will, and you can send her packing once again, repeating the process as many times as you have to each time she returns.

For example, if she turned you down for a date, you stopped talking to her, and she now contacts you "just to say hi" just ask her out on the spot. Optionally, you can add a reference to how puzzled you are she'd contact you and how you don't really need to talk. If she doesn't bail out there, just ask for what you want.

An aggressive version of this strategy has the man asking for sex or requiring it for her to get back into his life. The theory is she must want something out of you to seek you out after rejecting you, and unless she agrees to your terms, she can just go packing again.

The method works very well in many situations. It also has short-term applications for Foxes who ignore you at clubs or parties and then "return" later."

The Returning Fox theory, originated by Ray Parker, explained by NYC, ASF: "At the first sign of disrespect to you OR passing up an opportunity to spend time with you, you dump her. When she calls you wanting to go out or something, you tell her that her behaviour was unacceptable and that the only way you are going to let her hang out with you again is if she (make up whatever **** you want her to do because she broke the rules, ****, suck, whatever). If all you want from her is a kiss, get that. If all you want is for her to dress sexily, make her do that. If she doesn't agree to your terms tell her don't call you again until you are ready to meet my demands and HANG UP. The point of returning fox is that she is crawling back to you so you have the POWER in the relationship."

Ross Jeffries suggests issuing a warning at first, which is pretty much the same thing - you have to show that you're serious about it. "Don't be afraid to call her on bull**** she might pull. Girls will always test your limits... so the first time they do, call them on it. Tell her that you won't put up with that **** and not to do it again. NEVER forget you were born without her. And that there are a hundreds more like her and a thousands more that are even better than her."

Update. Disrespect is also a form of test - she is testing you in order to find out whether you are a supplicating groveling taking-all-her-crap wussy... or a man. Mr Happy, ASF: "In order to pass such a test (an example of which is cancelling a date), you must:


Show that you don't lose your temper over it.
Show that you don't whine like a baby over it.
Show that it doesn't really phase you.
Show that you DO find it disrespectful and that you don't tolerate that.

(4) is the most important point, but you MUST do it in such a way that (1,2,3) are true."

 

[applaya]

where to begin?

ok heres what you need to do. forget her and move on. also understand that you messed up big time getting the date. let me explain.

"I asked her why we hadn't chilled at all yet"
-lame. you should have just asked her if she wanted to "chill" and gottin her number. it would have shown less interest as opposed to you asking why you havn't yet

"She said she was busy, but then told me she was free on Saturday, so I said I would see if I could line something up."
-you should have accepted saturday. you had noting goin on so loose the busy guy act fakeing you had something to do. If you really were that busy you wouldn't be calling her three times that night.

"I talked to her again on Friday, and said that none of my people were available for Saturday, so it would just be her and I."
-well that's classy. letting her know the day before that none of "your people" were around so you would be available.

what you should have done was called her way before that up and set up a definate place and time. and please NO CONFIRMATION PHONE CALLS. Which brings me to my next point

"She said that sounded good, and told me to call her some time after 7."
-you should have never, ever, ever accepted this. she allready told you she was available on saturday. You should have asked her what the point of calling her was if she was going to be available. IF SHE ASKS YOU TO CALL HER than shes not interested. shes using you as a backup. because shes an eight on your scale you didn't even see it man.

"I called using my cell (through which I've talked to her before) at 7:20, with no answer. I waited 5 minutes, called using my house phone (through which I have not talked to her before), got no answer. I waited another 15 minutes, called once more using my cell, with no answer, so I left a message saying "Hey Natalie, it's Sean. Give me a call when you get this message. Bye." She didn't call back, but at around 9:30 my friend Katherine called me, so I just went out and chilled with her."
-if you did what i mentioned before you would have never been in this situation. but three phone calls in 20 minutes? please. and don't leave messages with chicks. not until you've gone out with them for a while. the reasoning is that it kills challenge and they normally don't call back.

"Anyway, my plan to deal with this is to wait until I see her in person at school, jokingly "scold" her for flaking out, then to tell her that it was no big deal, since I chilled with Katherine (I don't plan on referring to Katherine as a "friend", even though she is)."
-bad. ignore her and let her chase you and explain if somthing really major came up. if she doesn't than it's no big deal she wasn't interested in you to begin with. better to know now


"Any thoughts on this?"
-yeah terrible all around. you can learn though

"I just need to learn how to better deal with the games that these chicks play."
-yes you do. get the date and get the hell outta there. don't buy into their games. and for the love of God NO CONFIRMATION PHONE CALLS FROM NOW UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE.

"P.P.S. If it's relevent at all, I'd say Natalie is an 8."
it's very relivant. that's why she had you by the ball sack. it's ok though you'll get it

 

[dannowillbookem]

where to begin?

ok heres what you need to do. forget her and move on. also understand that you messed up big time getting the date. let me explain.

"I asked her why we hadn't chilled at all yet"
-lame. you should have just asked her if she wanted to "chill" and gottin her number. it would have shown less interest as opposed to you asking why you havn't yet

"She said she was busy, but then told me she was free on Saturday, so I said I would see if I could line something up."
-you should have accepted saturday. you had noting goin on so loose the busy guy act fakeing you had something to do. If you really were that busy you wouldn't be calling her three times that night.

"I talked to her again on Friday, and said that none of my people were available for Saturday, so it would just be her and I."
-well that's classy. letting her know the day before that none of "your people" were around so you would be available.

what you should have done was called her way before that up and set up a definate place and time. and please NO CONFIRMATION PHONE CALLS. Which brings me to my next point

"She said that sounded good, and told me to call her some time after 7."
-you should have never, ever, ever accepted this. she allready told you she was available on saturday. You should have asked her what the point of calling her was if she was going to be available. IF SHE ASKS YOU TO CALL HER than shes not interested. shes using you as a backup. because shes an eight on your scale you didn't even see it man.

"I called using my cell (through which I've talked to her before) at 7:20, with no answer. I waited 5 minutes, called using my house phone (through which I have not talked to her before), got no answer. I waited another 15 minutes, called once more using my cell, with no answer, so I left a message saying "Hey Natalie, it's Sean. Give me a call when you get this message. Bye." She didn't call back, but at around 9:30 my friend Katherine called me, so I just went out and chilled with her."
-if you did what i mentioned before you would have never been in this situation. but three phone calls in 20 minutes? please. and don't leave messages with chicks. not until you've gone out with them for a while. the reasoning is that it kills challenge and they normally don't call back.

"Anyway, my plan to deal with this is to wait until I see her in person at school, jokingly "scold" her for flaking out, then to tell her that it was no big deal, since I chilled with Katherine (I don't plan on referring to Katherine as a "friend", even though she is)."
-bad. ignore her and let her chase you and explain if somthing really major came up. if she doesn't than it's no big deal she wasn't interested in you to begin with. better to know now


"Any thoughts on this?"
-yeah terrible all around. you can learn though

"I just need to learn how to better deal with the games that these chicks play."
-yes you do. get the date and get the hell outta there. don't buy into their games. and for the love of God NO CONFIRMATION PHONE CALLS FROM NOW UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE.

"P.P.S. If it's relevent at all, I'd say Natalie is an 8."
it's very relivant. that's why she had you by the ball sack. it's ok though you'll get it

haha this is good. dwb seal of approval, things you mentioned i didnt notice.