My Naivety

[The Comeback Kid]

About four years ago - back in my high school/AFC days, I liked a girl in one of my classes in high school. I was thinking about asking her out on a date. When I told this to my best friend, the conversation went something like this:

TCK: Hey do you think I have a shot with HB9? I'm thinking of asking her out, she seems like a nice girl.
Friend: She doesn't do dates.
TCK: What are you talking about?
Friend: You didn't hear? She gave 8 BJs at the party last weekend. She's not a "dating" girl lol.

He wasn't lying either, this actually happened. The theme continues on now too. This year in college, I was talking to a friend and this conversation took place:

TCK: Any plans this weekend?
Friend: There's a party going down Saturday, I'll give you a call and we'll go over. Maybe some of the girls from our (20 person class) will show, that'd be nice.
TCK: Yeah they seem cool.
Friend: haha I mean they're freaky! Girl A is a mess when she's drunk, while girls B and C I've heard are "easy."

My friend here had seen them when he's gone out a few times, so that's where his info comes from. I also believe girls aren't as closed with this gossip information as some people think. Which leads to my question...

...why am I so naive? I talk to people all the time - in my classes, in my dorm/apartment, in my clubs, etc. However, I never hear of people's "dark sides." I don't hear about all the sketchy things like this, I don't know of any rivalries that everyone else seems to know (i.e. my friend and some girl we know intensely dislike each other due to some history they had), and I don't hear about people's negative social reps.

While living a peaceful lifestyle is nice and good (I don't get in trouble, I'm aware of my surroundings, I limit mistakes, etc.), I feel so naive it's annoying. No one fills me in on any of these things. When I do talk to people in general, the good part is it's always good conversation topics, we get along and things go well. At the same time, it feels like I'm not really digging deep. No one even hints at these dramatic/things that happen at night when we talk. It's like an exclusive club everyone else is in on, and I'm on the outside looking in.

I know this post is a little confusing, but the bottom line is that I'm not "in the know" about people's social lives, but somehow everyone else knows what's going on. Why could this be? Do I just not focus on it (I'm not looking for it when I talk to people)? Do these people fear I'll expose them/they don't trust me? Could I have some rep that excludes me from being "in the know?" I know it's a little over-thinking, but I don't think all of this is coincidence.

 

[Tyson420]

I actually went out with a girl who was infamous for giving BJs... For like one day, when people found out especially the most popular kid in class who I was friends with. He told me...

"Yo... That girl be giving head, B"

Me-"wtf...?"

So on that same day I dumped her, 8th grade LOL.

I can't believe I didn't know this, but don't kick yourself over it. I should be even more pissed because I actually kissed this slut, with tongue. AND I GOT NO DOME WHATSOVER, THAT IS BULL****, SON! To be fair we only went out for one day, I should have waited until she sucked my **** first.

Try acting out less naive and let the 'darkside' kick in.

 

[thecurtainfalls]

Nice observation. By realizing this fact, it's going to help you calibrate your game even further.

Sexualize more conversations with girls. Don't be afraid to let people see you talking like this. Take more chances. If you're good with humor and you know what you're doing, make some darker/raunchier jokes when you're in a social situation. Careful though, it takes a keen intuition as to what's over the line and what's not.

Really, what you're describing is happening because you haven't "fully penetrated" (no pun int.) your social circle. Right now you might be this pleasant enough orbiter guy, but you're not being seen as a real player in the social game. And I don't mean 'player' in the PUA sense.

It's like that line in Swingers right before Mikey goes to talk to the girl at the bar, and Trent goes "I don't want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie that everyone's reeeeeally rooting for. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, who you're not sure if you like yet".

Experiment a little but be a little bolder in your interactions. It seems like you've at least got a certain level of social foundation to work with, so you should only be able to build on this and improve/calibrate as more time goes on.

Good luck!

 

[The Comeback Kid]

Thanks. I don't have any plates spinning right now, so I can relax a bit and focus on other sorts of social issues like this. If I improve in areas such as this one, it will help more when I am pursuing a girl.

I can try being more sexual in my conversation, sure. I like the swingers quote, it's a good one. As you said, I don't want to start off by going over the top. I do kino a little more, but it's something I want to get down pat.

Really, what you're describing is happening because you haven't "fully penetrated" (no pun int.) your social circle. Right now you might be this pleasant enough orbiter guy, but you're not being seen as a real player in the social game. And I don't mean 'player' in the PUA sense.

I agree. I guess a question to ask is...how do I further penetrate these social circles instead of only being an orbiter? How do I become more of a "player" in the social sense? I'm a college senior. A lot of social circles have already formed. The social circles I had been a part of in college, for the most part, have crumbled - either people transferred to other schools or there were little battles within the group. I do have some people I'm friendly with and am trying to get into those circles now.

One problem I encounter is...everyone else already knows each other, so I'm coming in as, "the new guy." They're chummy already while I have to work my way up towards that.

Early this year, two guys I knew a bit invited me to hang out with them one weekend. It went well, had fun. However, I can't seem to get them (and their other friends) to hang out again. Apparently, every weekend is either, "too much homework" or it's a friend's birthday. There is no way this is true for every weekend, so I have to assume this is an excuse. While I take the high road more often than I should, if they ask me to hang out, I may just tell them that I have a lot of homework and it's a friend's birthday afterward. :crackup: Maybe calling people out on things (something I wish I could do more often) will show I have more of an edge...but will it draw more respect or have more people thinking I'm "sour grapes?"

 

[The Comeback Kid]

Maybe calling people out on things (something I wish I could do more often) will show I have more of an edge...but will it draw more respect or have more people thinking I'm "sour grapes?"

I spoke with one of my friends from back home today regarding the topic I quoted above (he's known me awhile). He feels if I start teeing off on people for something disrespectful/not right they're doing, then I'll be burning bridges, never something good. He doesn't feel I need to go off on emotion, especially since it'll be like Mr. Calm turning into the Incredible Hulk.

This does raise a question though. Taking the high road can only go so far. When is it the right time to get pissed? When is it the right time to call someone out on something? I bottle up any negative emotions I have, but I'd like to unleash the wrath sometime if the situation needs it.

And, as the post above asks: How do I further penetrate these social circles instead of only being an orbiter? How do I become more of a "player" in the social sense?

 

[Ridingthelightning]

People hang out because they have common ground. Find the common ground.

 

[The Comeback Kid]

People hang out because they have common ground. Find the common ground.

True, but I think thecurtainfalls is closer to the mark. Most of the people I meet are through things we have in common - classes, extra-curricular, mutual friends, etc.

 

[thecurtainfalls]

Nah, don't bother calling people out on the fact that they're making excuses to avoid hanging out. Number one, this happens to everyone from time to time. It could be for a variety of reasons, ranging from them seeing you as a bubbling vat of social toxic waste, to simply them having other sh!t going on. I know I've certainly blown a huge plume of lie-smoke up another guy's ass when I wanted to change plans to hang with a girl. Pick your battles - you definitely want to be able to stand up for yourself, but these are not the situations to take a stand. Even if you suspect they are lying to you, calling them out on it won't make them change their minds and agree to hang out. Play it cool and store everything away as accumulated knowledge in your mental Rolodex.

The way I see it, you're on the cusp. You can identify certain things about your social standing which a lot of people can't - this bodes very well for you because you are able to take a realistic look at your situation and attempt to calibrate accordingly. As such, I think you have much to look forward to.

So, how do you become a player in your social circle? Well, there's a couple different options.

The easiest way is to try and become good friends with a guy who is already successful and desired by a couple girls in your social circle. Don't ask him to show you the ropes like you're the Robin to his Batman - simply observe how he acts and use his connections to your benefit. Once in a while ask him to introduce you to a girl you want to meet. 30 second introduction from a pre-selected male? Congratulations, you just boosted your social proof. She has no idea that you're only casually acquainted with this guy: for all she knows you guys are best friends, boosting your status measurably. Always use what girls DON'T know, to your advantage Nothing wrong with trying to portray yourself in the best light possible.

Another way is to take chances. Press things a little. You're not getting the results you want now, so let's take it up a notch or two and closely monitor what happens. Be as social as possible, while being extremely sensitive to the temperature of your interactions. If you feel like you're starting to come off as that guy who's constantly hovering over every social event without having any quasi-meaningful interactions, scale back a little bit. But if I were you I would really try and work on my conversational game to try and become more charismatic. Is there a plain or moderately ugly girl that you know who is popular or connected to hotties? Try making friends with her, too, but be sure to step off of her once she's outlived her usefulness - no sense branding yourself with unattractive girls for the long haul.

Build and use your charisma to forge better connections with people. This is a life skill that takes a lot of practice and will produce benefits exponentially greater than the effort you put into refining it. Take every possible chance to do something social and meet more and more people. A lot of this stuff takes time. Creating a great social persona doesn't happen overnight - it's like carefully constructing a building, brick by brick. And just like construction, all it takes is a couple misplaced bricks to bring the whole thing crashing down if you're not careful.

But you're still young and trying to figure out what works for you. No shame in crashing and burning if that's what it takes. Now is the time to default to ACTION, to press your opportunities a little bit and see what happens.

Good luck.

 

[The Comeback Kid]

Pushing the envelope - this is something I'm going to have to do.

A couple of things I've noticed lately:
- If things are progressing well and I bring up that we should do something over the weekend (grab a drink, find a party), they'll say yes. However, when the time comes, they're elsewhere or simply can't go. I hate flakes. This isn't even dating! Heck, it's not even girls all the time!
- Not only do they flake, but I receive some creative excuses. A few years ago, I sniffed out the usual bogus excuses. Now, I get real specific reasons someone can't make it somewhere. One tell of a lie is that they're too specific, I don't understand why they put so much detail into it. I also can see through it because the other person is usually talking about it to someone in class and I'll overhear it.
- Maybe I'm not interesting enough. I do a lot with extra-curriculars, work out often and have some hobbies/interests. Regardless, it's always me asking what others are up to for the night/weekend or seeing if I'm able to go. No one invites me to hang out with them unless I bring it up first.
- This is more with girls, but some people claim they "like everyone." Then why do they intensely dislike me? The people (girls) who come across this way seem to have a vendetta against me. One of these types of girls worked with me this summer. At the bar, she'd make sure to talk to all our other co-workers but ignored me.
-NAIVETY STRIKES AGAIN! I overheard in one of my smaller classes that a few people go out for a drink after the class (which ends in the middle of the day). Now I wouldn't go anyway since I do a workout after the class and I have a busy schedule after that. How do I miss these types of conversations? I'm not shy and I listen well.

Keeping these stories - plus the others from before in mind - I will focus on getting a friend I have (who is better with this stuff) to bring me out with him, I feel I have charisma but perhaps improve on it, and of course, push the envelope.

Speaking of which, I may have to do something somewhat extreme. While I'm improving with this whole aspect, I sense people find me too collected. I am big on preparation and rarely get caught off-guard. Perhaps being "too ready" makes me boring or predictable, since I don't seem shocked with what comes next?

Some athletes guarantee a win or that their team will make the playoffs when no one else thinks so. When they're right, they look great (obviously not so great when they are wrong). The point is, I need to take some big risk - if I'm right, it could positively change others' perception of me. The question is, what kind of big, daring social risk could this be?