My (current) thoughts on seduction

[Master of the Universe]

Hola DJs!

A few days ago, one of the guys on this board who has my phone # called me up and asked me what is the status of the Advanced DJ Boot Camp. As some of you may remember, I had posted that I would have it together and start up in the beginning of May.

However, that did not happen. And there's a reason for that beyond the fact that I have been working nonstop for the last month.

The simple truth is that I have no idea what the heck to include in the bootcamp. I initially had thought of including some speed seduction, a bit of Mystery's stuff, some ****y & funny, and a few other popular methods.

The only problem is that I don't use that stuff anymore. I've recently come to the conclusion that there's way more misinformation than information in most of these boards. And I know that I'm not the only one who thinks so. Others have discussed this privately. If they wish to present their views here, that would be great. If not, that's fine as well.

Basically, here's my gripe...

1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.

2) A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way. Anything else does not work.

3) They are way too complicated. There are literally hundreds of different pieces of techniques to supposedly pick up a chick, and most of those contradict each other. Getting girls should not be on the level of designing a nuclear warhead.

4) Too many rules - most of these systems have all those rules to follow. The only true rule in my opinion is that you produce results, even if you accomplish this by doing everything against the so-called rules.

5) Many of the rules only work in theory. They don't work in the real world.

Now, here are my current thoughts on a lot of stuff that DJs/PUAs believe. You may agree with me, you may disagree with me. That's fine. I am by no means suggesting that my ideas are right, while other ideas are wrong. I'm just suggesting what I've found to be true for me, by trying everything in the field.

DAYS BEFORE CALLING

Forget about waiting 7 days to call. Forget about waiting 5 days, forget about 3 days, forget about 1 day. So when do you call? When you want and when you have time. Believe me guys, if a girl is interested in you, she will not lose interest if you call her the next day, the day after, or a few days later. But I've found that the longer you wait past a few days, that's when her interest starts dropping. Why? Because "out of sight, out of mind." Now, if you're unable to call because you sincerely are busy, then that's understandable. But don't play those foolish games of waiting so many days before calling. All this will do will have her put up the player shield, and have her play her games. Then it becomes a competition of will. And that's sad.

CHALLENGE

The hell with challenge. Waiting so many days to call, canceling dates, pretending your busy when you truly are not - WTF? Believe me guys, she'll see through it. And even if she doesn't, playing hard to get will only work with a small minority of girls.

Instead, ask yourself 'for what purpose?' For what purpose is challenge? The biggest purpose is to convey value. People want something of value, and being a challenge denotes some value, assuming the girl will go along with your games.

But what would happen if instead of setting challenges for her, you truly become a person that everyone wants to associate with. A person who's got his shyt together, people who respect him, friends, the most amazing life. Guess what, she will want to be part of your life. And that motivation will be 10x stronger than any challenge. Actually the fact is that you will have many girls interested in you, and THAT will be the greatest challenge for her.

MYSTERY

Why does mystery work? Because it allows the chick to fill in the blanks. And instead of seeing the guy as banal, which he probably is, she reads more than there is. The hope is by the time she finally sees the real guy, she will have invested so much that she will not want to leave. How sad.

Instead of using mystery to cover our deficiencies, let's build our character, personality, and life in such a way that it is better than her wildest imagination can ever conjure. Take pride in who you are, both your successes and failures, your strengths and your weaknesses. Let's share with the world who we are, and be proud of that!

YOU ARE NOT THE PRIZE

Yup, read that again. You are NOT the prize, and neither is she the prize. Then who the hell is the prize? Both of you are prizes. I don't know which posts are worse, the ones where the guy is ranting about how the girl is such an amazing person and he is not worthy of being in her shadow, or the ones where the guys is screaming that all girls are bytches and should be honored to have a minute of his time.

Both mindsets reek of insecurity. The bottom line is that she is not better than you, and you are not better than her. You are both equal. You are both wonderful. You are both amazing. Let the whole world see themselves as weak and insecure. Instead, put both yourself AND the girl on a pedestal. You are both "10s."

SUPPLICATION

Buying dinner or flowers for a girl is supplication. Complimenting a girl is supplication. Telling a girl you like her is supplication -- bullshyt!

I'll tell you this, if you want to buy flowers for a girl, then do so. If you want to pay for the date, then do so. If you want to compliment her, then do so. None of this is supplication! If the girl likes you, she'll like you after you give her flowers or paying for the date. If she doesn't like you, then buying her dinner or flowers will not make her like you any more than before.

Supplication is changing yourself to give the girl the appearance that you are someone you are not, just to get something out of her (this includes her liking you). I'm not saying that you shouldn't change -- because you either change or you die. Instead what I am saying is all this on how to behave to get the chick to like you is junk.

Now, guess what. If you pay for the date, and the chick doesn't sleep with you, then you have no right to get upset. Why? Because what you do, you should do so because it makes you happy, regardless of the chick's reactions or actions. You paid for dinner because you wanted to. Period. You're not doing anything for her because you want something from her and hoping that you can "bribe" her, but rather because you want to do so.

COMPLIMENTS

The worst thing that I did for my game was when I stopped complimenting girls. And the reason I complimented wasn't because of the results that I would get, but rather because complimenting people makes me happy. Simple as that!

The problem that I find with the way most guys compliment, is that they don't honestly believe that they are a prize. And the compliment looks more like idol worship, than being raising someone to your level.

Instead, I see myself as being on a pedestal. And my goal is to have everyone I come in contact with, including ugly chicks and guys, raise to my level. So yes, I do put girls on a pedestal. Very few girls actually believe that they are 10s. This is especially true of those girls that neg-hits are designed to work on. Think about it. If they truly are a 10, then how the hell is a neg-hit supposed to lower that? It doesn't. The reason they work is because the chicks know deep inside that this whole thing is just a facade, and they're pretending to be a 10, when they know inside that they're less than the average person.

So you want her to like you? Simple. Instead of throwing a neg-hit to bring her down from her false pedestal, raise her on a real pedestal. Let her see that she truly is a 10. This is the essence of charm. Raise people to new heights... raise them to your level. See the magic, the wonder, the beauty in every person you come across. Let them realize the potential inside them.

And don't reserve this for HBs, only. Instead, make everyone you meet feel like they are special. Let me ask you this question. When was the last time you flirted with a 70 year old woman? No, I didn't say sleep with a 70 year old woman, but just flirt with her, and make her feel like a 20 year old vixen.

If you haven't, then you don't know the amazing rush of making someone feel better about themselves than they have in years. Imagine the experience of seeing someone's eyes light up, their whole soul just singing. And besides, those grandmothers are the most fun, and you will be shocked at what comes out of their mouths - they have absolutely no inhibition.

I remember not too long ago, I was at a lounge and there was this senior citizen sitting there by herself. Most of her family was on the dance floor or talking with other people. I went and started to flirt with her, trying to convince her to fly away with me to Europe so we could elope and make passionate love. Obviously she knew that I was joking around. But if only you could see the happiness on her face. Guess what? All the other girls in the club saw it, and they came up to me that evening, not vice-versa.

 

[Master of the Universe]

Part II

ATTRACTION, SEDUCTION AND LOOKS

Okay, here's the deal, a girl will know if she would be willing to be with you or not within a minute or two of meeting you. If that's the case, does it make more sense to work on your attraction ability, or on your seduction skills?

I would have to say the former. But what is being attractive? I used to think that an attractive person is someone who looked good. In fact, I always thought that I was an 8 or so looks wise, because I've had many girls tell me that I'm good looking, and many of my sister's friends tell her that she has a cute brother.

So you can imagine my surprise when I posted my picture on hotornot, and I got rated at a 4.3. I figured maybe the pic was not so good, so I tried a different picture. That one got a 7. I figured another picture is in order. That one got a 5. I tried half a dozen pictures, and I averaged in the 5 zone, which put me below average in looks.

It wasn't until a girl made a comment that I finally understood. A chick told me that I was very attractive. I thanked her and asked her what about me that made me very handsome. She replied that she did not say that I was handsome, but attractive. I just gave her a dumb look and asked her what is the difference.

She proceeded to teach me that handsome is strictly physical looks, a photograph if you will. Some handsome guys are attractive, and some are not. Being attractive on the other hand is part looks, part how you carry yourself, how you move through the world, your energy. In other words, charisma.

So here's the truth, a girl will decide if she wants you or not VERY quickly, and that is determined by how attractive you are. But being attractive has less to do with your looks than it does with your whole personality, your energy, your charisma. The bad news is that we can't do much with our physical looks, the good news is that we don't have to. We need only work on making ourselves more attractive, which is something we all have the ability to do.

Oh yeah, so if the girl puts you in the category of unfvckable, does that mean there's no way to turn around the situation. There is, but it's a lot less work to be attractive off the bat. And that way is not as simple as using a neg-hit, throwing around a few c&f lines, telling her a cool story, or hypnotizing her with a pattern.

You basically have to give her such a system shock that she has to completely reevaluate who you are. Someone else whom I can't remember gave a very good analogy. I don't remember who he was, otherwise I would have given him credit, but think about this:

If you have a dog, and all of a sudden he learned how to sit on command, by himself, then you would be impressed, but you would still perceive him as a dog.

On the other hand, if you go outside your front door, and you see him smoking a cigar, talking on the cell phone, and getting a blow job from the entire Dallas Cowboy cheerleading squad, then you would have to completely reevaluate what you're seeing before you. He is no longer a dog.

Same thing with a chick. If she wasn't initially attracted to you, then the way to change her behavior is to completely shake up her definition of who you are. Forget about a neg-hit, pattern, or any of that stuff. The truth is if that these things worked, then most likely she was already interested in you. She was just waiting for you to take the lead.

BOLDNESS IS MAGICAL

So if I don't use most of the common methods, what do I use? I don't think I have a step-by-step action plan. The "way" is pretty simple though.

1) Make the chicks feel good about themselves.

2) Be playful.

3) BE BOLD. Boldness is truly magical. Having the guts to ask for what you want is immensely attractive, and you'll be surprised at how often you'll get it. I remember hanging around with a large group of students of speed seduction. I had gotten a chick to give me a kiss, and they were trying to figure out how I did it, asking me if I ran this pattern or set up an anchor, or blah blah blah. My answer? I asked her to give me a kiss.

They were dumbfounded that it was so simple. The truth is that things are really that simple. We just overcomplicate them. Ask for what you want, expecting to get it, and not really caring if you don't. If you don't get it, be playfully persistent, and you oftentimes will.

And the really cool thing is that the bolder you are, the more comfortable the chick will be. You're basically showing her that you are a leader, and she can comfortably follow your lead. Don't doubt yourself, and tell (or show her) what you want... you'll often get it.


Wow, I didn't mean for this post to get this long. I guess I had a lot on my mind. Funny thing is that I still have plenty of other things I want to say. It's interesting... I have probably every single seduction/pickup product and course, I've attended several seminars, and have tried this stuff out in the field with over 3,000 girls, and after all this, I've come back to where I started from.

Do I regret the time, effort, and money invested learning all those other methods. Absolutely not! I had to learn the hard way how to interact with girls in order to realize that I already knew more than I thought I did, and to acquire the right attitude.

Well, I've got to get back to work. Thanks for taking the time to read this folks, and no, MotU hasn't been smoking any pharmaceuticals, but this is how I feel. If you agree or disagree with me, I would be interested in what you have to say.

Master of the Universe

 

[trevjr]

All I can say is this is one of the most amazing things I have ever read!
It sounds to me that you have synthesized all of the courses you have taken and come up with what works for you. It sounds like it will work for anybody.
I think that each one of us must take all of the info that we get from this forum and other sites and mold it into something that works for us.
You have got it right in my opinion.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

Wow, fantasic post! I agree wholeheartedly, you have summarised a lot of ideas I've had about this stuff lately.

Further simplification of the concepts:

• Absolute confidence in yourself (and zero concern for others perception of you)
• There are no rules, only guidelines

That's it, there is nothing else needed...

Oscar.

 

[The_King]

Yeah...

Its what works for you and its only through all the experimenting, succeding and failing, that you realise, what works but more importantly what works for you and what you want.

These are guidelines, small hints and tricks to increase curiosity and attractiveness etc but if you truly have got yourself together with fun, rewarding life and a person who is confident and well-respected...women are going to find that attractive....however you will understand that the definition of success is not a numbers game but achieving what you want to achieve, bettering yourself. I want to achieve success in many fields, now I know that women will become part of that success not the success itself.
Here is an anology of how I see it,

Women were the prize but not I see them as the wrapping

The prize is what I want to achieve throughout life and it happens that women come with this prize.

Understand?

 

[es_mer8]

Master of the Universe is trying to destroy the very fabric that is DJing!!!!!

All jokes aside, thats a good post. I've had nearly two weeks to fine craft my skill. I got a total of 6 numbers from girls and out of those, I was shot down twice. The first three or so I did with the DJ methods that I learned from DJ Boot Camps week one and two. I'm going with one to a party on Saturday night, an 8 in my eyes. It worked that quick. The latter three I achieved with kind of my own method:

1) No c+f if the opportunity arises for it. Don't go up to her out of the blue and say c+f just to say it. Even then its like flipping a coin. I know some girls that absolutely loved the ****y yet funny comments I made. Some girls pretty much thought I was an ******* after saying them.

2) No neghits. I do partially agree about neghits not being used right but the whole point is for you to get a girl in your pants, not think you're an ass. Neghits can be really damaging to girls who are insecure. Its like gambling again like c+f but this time the odds are much more stacked against you.

3) Be aggressive. Don't do that "busy" routine unless you actually are. I admit, its a good way to make sure the little conversation you have is gold but if you barely talk to her, how will either of you know what each person is going to be like? From what I read, most convos are told to be 2 minutes. Maybe a 5 minute convo. Not an interview but just talk about your surroundings. Show confidence and its also a good litmus test to see if she's dating material or only good to look at.

4) Don't act busy unless you are. I guess the solution here is to develop such a busy life that you indeed are and that makes it more convincing. If you're so busy, why are you talking to the girl? You'll be exposed for being a phony once you realize being busy means going home and posting on this board (nothing against the board) I guess try to maintain a busy life is the best way as you should. Life is too short for just spending 3-4 hours at your house each night sitting on your ass doing nothing.

5) Look great but be who you are. If you're going to be nerd clad in Armani, you're just going to be exposed as a joke. If you have the clothes, adapt the personality. Clothes help you look good but if worn right. Its like saying don't wear a Hawaiian shirt unless you're a party animal or gay (Credit: The Simpsons)

6) Humor them to a point. Be funny but be serious. Being Jerry Seinfeld is definitely a good quality to have but if you want a relationship, show her that you are deep as well as funny. Politics is a good one given the world situation. Its a good way to weed out the women from the wh0res.

Its my plan if I want a deep relationship. If I want a ONS, I want to go with the DJ method.

 

[Luscious]

This is an amazing post. Really caused me to think about the way I've been treating women lately and the slump I've been in. Genuine thanks to Master of the Universe on this one.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Congratulations, MOTU, on reaching the next level. I've also come to the realizations that you've put into this post (although you said it a lot better than I would have).

 

[Kricket]

Master of The Universe

My Props to He-Man.

I'd like you to post the rest of your thoughts

His Quote:

"and after all this, I've come back to where I started from."

Except this time, you are a new person.

 

[msustud]

I definately agree with this post. The thing to keep in mind is the three C's Confidence, self Control and Challenge. Even though being a challenge isnt that important, but if you think about it would you rather date an easy girl or someone that you have to work for. But more importantly to all of this is we are men dont ever let a woman control you thats usually when you get played or used. We can control who we are and want to do. Confidence leads to alot of attractiveness so even most men arent good looking I agree that its not all about looks its how you present yourself and think about yourself, which leads to how you make her feel about you. That my friends is the key to how much she will be attracted to you is how you make her feel with you.

 

[Slickster]

Master of the Universe

This is absolutely the best post I have ever read on this forum.

I'm printing it off right now.

I think the biggest reason this site even exists is because people want others(women) to like them. Well inorder to get others to like you, you have to like yourself. And to truly like yourself you must become the best person you can possibly be. Its that simple. With that said there will still be people who won't like or be attracted to you. And thats okay.

As far as I'm concerned you've re-written the Bible in one post!

Way to go!

 

[Marbles]

wow

 

[Ronin I]

Hey MOTU - nice post.

Let's see....

I agree with much of what you said.

So I will only elaborate on where I disagree.

The hell with challenge. Waiting so many days to call, canceling dates, pretending your busy when you truly are not - WTF? Believe me guys, she'll see through it. And even if she doesn't, playing hard to get will only work with a small minority of girls.

Kind of disagree here. I agree that purposely playing games is weak. But the harder you have to work for something the more value it has to you - plain and simple.

To me, CHALLENGE is very important - especially early on.

To really understand this I only need to look at my current situation. I am currently seeing two women - both of them pretty equal in just about every measurable way. But one of them has made herself VERY available to me while the other has proven to be a bit more work (over the past 3-4 weeks or so). In that time I have seen my IL in the "challenging" girl steadily increase while my IL in the other girl has remained steady or maybe declined a bit.

There is NO other explanation for this that I can think of. The funny thing is that I am a very logical very astute person. I understand WHY my IL is increasing but that doesn't mean that I can necessarily control it. The "challenging" girl intrigues me. I find myself trying to figure out exactly where I stand with her. She's been keeping me guessing and point of fact - it's working like a charm. Add to that that it's pretty safe to say that women are less logical (in general) than men, and that women are probably not as use to "a challenge" thanks to all of the flaming AFCs in this world - and CHALLENGE becomes more and more of a useful weapon in your arsenal.

And remember the golden rule - "You always want what you can't have." So the longer you can keep a girl unsure about whether or not she "has" you the better.


Buying dinner or flowers for a girl is supplication. Complimenting a girl is supplication. Telling a girl you like her is supplication -- bullshyt!

I agree to a certain extent that it depends on your motives. But sometimes it's not your motives that matter but HER INTERPRETATION of your motives.

What I'm kind of starting to realize is that a lot of this stuff overlaps. A lot of what we call "supplicating" can be looked as acting needy/like a wuss and diminishing the CHALLENGE factor.

So I agree -

Buying dinner or flowers for a girl is supplication. Complimenting a girl is supplication. Telling a girl you like her is supplication -- bullshyt!

If it's done:
1) In small doses
2) Unpredictably
3) After you've already established she's genuinely interested in YOU and not you're attention/money/etc
4) If, like you said, you do those things for the right reasons - and hopefully you can adequately convey that to her.

OK - I have to run for now...I will continue my critique in a later post.

 

[Jinn]

Wow, thanks MOTU. I already knew pretty much everything you said, but reading it brought me to a new level of understanding (not sure if that makes sense but I'm sure atleast 1 person can relate).

I hope everyone on this board reads this thread

 

[Bonhomme]

Interesting Analysis, MoTU!

Long time no hear from!


A lot of the ideas you expressed have been borne out in my own experience.

Waiting too long to call has definitely proved a bad move, *especially* if I kinoed the gal into an intense enough vibe. *Then* striking while the iron is hot, and calling even the very next day might be best! Sometimes the worst thing one can do is give her time to forget.

Also, I've found whether or not you buy stuff for her is entirely situational. If you're a well-to-do businessman, it's only proper to buy a grad-student date her ticket, or dinner, or whatever. Unless she's an extreme feminist. But I even dated a strongly feminist grad student who appreciated my picking up the tab.

I disagree on *mystery*, though... provided it's not *overdone*. Disclosure is like *spice*. I find it best to dole out interesting and surprising tidbits of info in such a way as to keep her curious for more. Do not underestimate the attraction curiosity brings.

Challenge is best addressed in the negative. It's a turn-off to be too easy. But I've lost gals by being too much of a challenge. Go too far in that direction and they'll next *you* for being a flake. Good observation.

Interesting post, again. No need to even copy it, since it's mostly stuff I've internalized already.

I've been wondering what you've been up to. Drop me a message sometime.

 

[Mizer]

Master's post is obviously filled with wisdom gained from experience. Although, I agree with many of the points expressed by MOTU, I believe an aspiring DJ should at least
try many of the suggestions expressed in the Bible to arrive at their own conclusion
and method. Some techniques are helpful.

Yes, in many cases it will lead you to the point MOTU has arrived at but
the journey is what is most valuable when it comes to learning how to deal with women. In other words, don't be surprised to find yourself abandoning many of the philosophies you learned and applied while approaching women but in the process if you just gain the most important attribute ( great confidence to do it your way), then it would have all been worth it since confidence is the biggest obstacle for those who are not successful with women.
Look at it this way, Bruce Lee learned all those martial art techniques but in the end could probably kick most people A$$es with some simple boxing.


After going out with my friends on the weekends and getting the phone numbers of very attractive women, they always ask me "Mize, what do you be saying to them, man? You must got some tight game."

Do I do neg hits?

No.

Do I pattern?

no.


While they are thinking of witty things to say to the ladies and good jokes, I simply approach women, introduce myself, and focus on just getting to know the person. But I believe the confidence and knowledge of many different methods help me a lot because several years ago such a simple approach did not work for me much.




Today I was just thinking about the rule of not paying for your date's meal or movie price admission on the first date because blah blah blah. That rule is every where. You know what? I never ever use that rule. I feel that a man paying for the woman on the first date or whatever is a nice tradition. Call me old fashion but I don't think paying on a date has jeopordized any thing in my past relationship with women. If you have a cool personality and you are a charming person like MOTU said..........


Anyways, I wouldn't ignore the Bible completely; it has too much good stuff. But choose what may work for you and don't try and gobble every thing down and apply it. In other words, learn certain techniques that will help you, but don''t be surprised to find yourself simply boxing in the end. Maybe you just needed the confidence/ballz to fight.


Mizer

 

[es_mer8]

The more I read it, the more I disagree.

1) Most of the methods are more about power and control than about mutual attraction.

Why shouldn't we take control? If girls/women took control, mankind would be doomed. Most girls still believe in the tradition that men are to be the dominant ones when it comes to dating. Forget feminazis and the *****es that watch Lifetime, this is how it is in the real world. Some girls may be forward but many are not. Many of them still believe the man should go up to them. With control, the man should be but its not to say the women have no control and I don't think any of the Bible listings have an article where the man should have all say and the woman have no say at all.

2) A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way. Anything else does not work.

Wrong. What most of the "gurus" have are stuff that works for them. Most people pretty much understand that its different girls, different rules. However due to the homogenization of girls thanks to preteen media, I'd say a good 60-80% of girls/women are the same in behavior thus most rules cover all.

When you want and when you have time

BS. Maybe not 5-7 days but not immediately. It takes the unpredictability factor out. Believe me, women like mystery. Why do you see so many romance novels about how some hot toned female walks down the road when this ripped indian shows up and gives her a great time? Granted, those things are mostly fantasy but they're fantasies by women. I'm not saying lurk in the shadows but you got to be unpredictable. Calling the night of or the next night of is horribly cliché. You may as well take her out to dinner, give her a rose, and have an interview/date. You may as well just empty your bank account on her and buy 20 teddy bears and put them on her bed the following day. I'll stop.

Because "out of sight, out of mind."

BS. Lets be honest. 95% of all men are AFCs. Most girls probably don't even give their numbers out in general to most men. So I'm pretty sure a girl will remember who you are if you wait 4-6 days. If not, she's an idiot and probably isn't worth dating anyway.

let's build our character, personality, and life in such a way that it is better than her wildest imagination can ever conjure

You're asking for the impossible here, bud. Nobody can be beyond anyone's "wildest imagination" unless their wildest imagination is boring as hell. Face it, nobody is ever going to really shock anyone unless someone is ridiculously naive and easily impressed.

None of this is supplication

BS. It shows that you're willing to open your wallet open to a woman and she'll get the idea that spending money on her is to be expected. It is expected but not like that. Too many rich nerd AFCs open their wallets by doing all the stuff like roses and expensive dinners because they think the girls will like it. She likes the gifts and the money wall the AFC has set up for himself but she will not like the person for the person. Often times you see hot girls getting ass on the side from other men because she deep down is not attracted to material goods. Girls are attracted to material goods by the way they are raised.

Back in the caveman days, you could probably be considered the **** to girls if you speared a mammoth. It required skill and technique. If you were the top of the pack and led the group to success, you were considered the **** to girls because they like leaders. We're animals. Female mammals are the submissive sex. The males are the leaders, the ones who must be agile warriors, gatherer of food and hunter of the wild. Its several thousand years later where you can't really do that but women are still attracted to men who are powerful physically and mentally.

You're not doing anything for her because you want something from her and hoping that you can "bribe" her, but rather because you want to do so.

Nobody pays for two meals because they want to. I think its up to the woman to decide. If she wants to pay her half or the whole thing, let her.

So you can imagine my surprise when I posted my picture on hotornot

Hotornot should never be an indicator of attractiveness.

So here's the truth, a girl will decide if she wants you or not VERY quickly, and that is determined by how attractive you are

A girl told you the honest truth about it? She may have been right but she may not have been. Again, it varies from person to person. Some women, like some men, base their partners almost on looks only. Some almost by personality. You're almost contradicting with this one statement you claimed we should not make "A lot of the "gurus" seem to think that their way is the only way" I wouldn't pay much attention to what women say because for the most part, they themselves don't even know what they want in life. I can liken it to a time I went to Best Buy to get a game. When I went to get it, there were 20-30 others I wanted that were all good. I can liken this to each type of man and what a woman chooses. When that happens, I just get the one and then see if its good or not. I think this applies to women almost 100%*

* - nothing in life is ever 100%

My answer? I asked her to give me a kiss

A lot of men do that. Most women have a name for them: creep asses. Boldness is good if you're a valuable enough prospect to a woman. Asking a woman to give you a kiss is not an easy task. With you're example, I could go up to women and ask if they give me a nice BJ. I'll probably get ignored most of the time, probably slapped, and in extreme cases, maced, but the success rate will be extremely low unless she's a slut that'd probably **** you right then and there had you asked her.

I've come back to where I started from

Good for you? Most marriages are done by AFCs that just want to commit so they won't die old and lonely or naive fools who really don't know better. If you're talking LTRs then its all the matter of approach. You could probably get into a LTR if you bang the girl the first night of meeting her. You may realize that outside her body, she has a great mind. She thinks so too so you just give up the charade of absolute badassness© and become confident yet committed.

Coming back to where you started from shows that your game probably got weak or your change in women has differed. There was a time when I was into Asian girls. Another time was when I was into girls with big ass jubblies (sp?) as the girl didn't have to be hot as long as the rack was C cup or bigger. Another phase was when I was into the hourglass look. Now I'm at a phase where a nice ass and some good boobies are essential as well as a nice face. Who knows what I may like. Maybe I'll get into attractive or decent looking bisexual girls next. Each one probably requires a different approach.

If you agree or disagree with me, I would be interested in what you have to say.

I disagree with you for the most part it seems but I still respect what you said. We all have different methods. You may have matured. The kind of wild n' ****y attitude will work wonders for late teens/early 20s girls because they want a man that gives them a nice time in the sack. Women from mid 20s on will probably want a more deeper, involved, emotional relationship. Tastes will change.

 

[Mr. Mystery]

Motu,

I generally agree with most of what you wrote, but...

I have written posts similar to this and every time I get halfway through writing it and decide not to post it. Why?

Because this is stuff people have to find out for themselves. It can't be told, and it shouldn't.

All the challenge, mystery, c&f and all the other stuff is good to learn. It breaks you outta your "AFC" (hate to use that term) shell. Then when you start to gain some confidence in yourself and your abilities with women you start to test this stuff and become more and more natural with women.

I stopped coming for awhile and have noticed my confidence change. It didn't grow or anything, but it was reinforced. Because I realized that I didn't need to come to SoSuave and read articles and debate confidence to be confident.

Once you leave and depend on yourself instead of the advice given here then your confidence becomes anchored in you.

But you don't get to that point without going through a metamorphosis from clueless, to calculated, to natural.

Some newbie might run across this post and see how much everyone loves it and think, "Hey, all this **** that guys here are preaching is really bs, I'm gonna be sincere" and then go out and suffocate, or creep out all the girls they talk to.

Like I said I agree with alot of what you said, but I think it does more harm than good when posted.

Mr. Mystery

 

[jakethasnake]

Frorgive my over-simplistic treatment of all this, but isn't this how the DJ-Evolutionary process works?


AFC ----> Theory-Whoore DJ (no experience) ------(+experience)-----------> Experienced DJ



That, I just assumed right from the beginning. I guess some people just don't have the foresight, or they are just totally blinded by the lure of exaggerated promises. The problem might be the way these seduction communities are marketed.

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Master of the Universe
MYSTERY

Why does mystery work? Because it allows the chick to fill in the blanks. And instead of seeing the guy as banal, which he probably is, she reads more than there is. The hope is by the time she finally sees the real guy, she will have invested so much that she will not want to leave. How sad.

Instead of using mystery to cover our deficiencies, let's build our character, personality, and life in such a way that it is better than her wildest imagination can ever conjure. Take pride in who you are, both your successes and failures, your strengths and your weaknesses. Let's share with the world who we are, and be proud of that!

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAA!!!!!

MotU, you are going to love this! I read this the first time and I didn't think you were talking about the CONCEPT of mystery but rather Mystery the *PUA*. What's even funnier is that when I read it I didn't think "WTF he talking about?" but it actually MADE SENSE thinking you meant HIM instead of the idea of being a mystery. Only coming back to this part of the post after having read some of the replies did I come back seeing it for what you really meant.

Is that fvcking hilarious or what?!!!

Anyway, I was one of the people who discussed privately with MotU and others the amount of misinformation there is on these boards and MotU has written an awesome post here which I virtually agree with entirely.

People on this board didn't fully understand what my getting into Juggler's stuff was all about. They thought it was just another "unsual technique" as Allen calls them. Juggler's stuff is more about rapport skills than it is seduction. But then again, rapport skills turn out to BE seduction skills amazingly enough. You are just letting things take care of themself and they somehow...do.

Originally posted by Master of the Universe

Do I regret the time, effort, and money invested learning all those other methods. Absolutely not! I had to learn the hard way how to interact with girls in order to realize that I already knew more than I thought I did, and to acquire the right attitude.

I feel the same way. You pretty much took the words from my mouth. It's amazing how much I have learned and of what I have learned how little of it I use today. I don't regret it at all either, it was a great experience which I learned a lot from. But the thing that helped improve my game the most was realizing that I am already better than the stuff I was trying to get so good at. Also, had I never become involved with this stuff I would not have met many people with whom I know I am going to be lifelong friends.

MotU, there is so much to say about your post and I wish I could type it all up now but I got to get up early tomorrow and get out of town. I am hanging out with Stormwolf this weekend, I am sure there will be many entertaining in-field stories to tell afterwards.

Later

-PDX