Dude Bootcamp is not about making it interesting for other people. Who cares if they find it boring. Just keep going your doing good, if you want to get Hi's to HB's try going to a club or something? good place to start random conversations.
"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.
MrCode's Boot Camp Journal
- Thread starter MrCode
- Start date
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
MrCode
Senior Don Juan
Week 2.5, Day 2 - A Day of Chatting With the Fellas
Modro I appreciate the feedback and of course you are right. This boot camp is for me, and I'm writing this as my own documentation of my change from RAFC to DJ. There is a reason it is called a journal. Of course if others enjoy reading it, great. Regarding clubs, I actually enjoy them and love to dance, and in addition don't usually expect much from them, so I think I'll take your advice and go out at least once this weekend.
OK, this post documents Friday, October 1, 2004, the beginning of a month that will find me a different man by the end. In fact, I think this will be a very interesting Halloween.
Again I worked all day without leaving the office (as usual we had the catered lunch deal mentioned in my last Friday post), and I also played the usual Friday game of basketball with my coworkers. I figured this might end up being another day I went without any conversations, but after playing several games with my coworkers, most of them left and then a few more guys came on the court. I decided to join them for another game or two. Long story short I played the game and afterwards ended up having an interesting conversation with one guy I've met before and another stranger.
The one stranger guy (I ended up getting his name before I left, Kareem) was wanting to bulk up more, so I mentioned SoSuave and said the Health and Fitness section of the forum had a good bulk up guide. Of course for these guys the idea of a web site about picking up women was somewhat amusing, but I played it off and started talking about some of my belief about the ladies. They pretty much agreed and both seemed to be non-AFCs. I wouldn't say they were DJs, but they certainly weren't the usual clueless guys. In fact the one guy I've met before, Mike, is a 6'6" 340 lbs former football player, so I guess he is just sort of naturally alpha. Still he is a very nice guy considering his stature, but not the kind of nice guy who kisses women's asses.
Anyhow the conversation lasted probably 10 minutes, and then I excused myself and left (practicing the concept of "leaving on a high note", which obviously is a good idea when dating women.) So I'm counting this as one conversation for my boot camp Week 2.5. Also I'm starting my conversation count over and dropping that one measly conversation I had in the "first" Week 2.
Convo count for the day: 1
Total convo count: 1
HB convo count: 0
That was a nice post MoveYourAss, and I particularly like the above quote. You are right about saying hi, it isn't a big deal for me now. I can only hope that conversations and getting phone numbers from attractive women will be as easy as I move along in the boot camp.
Modro I appreciate the feedback and of course you are right. This boot camp is for me, and I'm writing this as my own documentation of my change from RAFC to DJ. There is a reason it is called a journal. Of course if others enjoy reading it, great. Regarding clubs, I actually enjoy them and love to dance, and in addition don't usually expect much from them, so I think I'll take your advice and go out at least once this weekend.
OK, this post documents Friday, October 1, 2004, the beginning of a month that will find me a different man by the end. In fact, I think this will be a very interesting Halloween.
Again I worked all day without leaving the office (as usual we had the catered lunch deal mentioned in my last Friday post), and I also played the usual Friday game of basketball with my coworkers. I figured this might end up being another day I went without any conversations, but after playing several games with my coworkers, most of them left and then a few more guys came on the court. I decided to join them for another game or two. Long story short I played the game and afterwards ended up having an interesting conversation with one guy I've met before and another stranger.
The one stranger guy (I ended up getting his name before I left, Kareem) was wanting to bulk up more, so I mentioned SoSuave and said the Health and Fitness section of the forum had a good bulk up guide. Of course for these guys the idea of a web site about picking up women was somewhat amusing, but I played it off and started talking about some of my belief about the ladies. They pretty much agreed and both seemed to be non-AFCs. I wouldn't say they were DJs, but they certainly weren't the usual clueless guys. In fact the one guy I've met before, Mike, is a 6'6" 340 lbs former football player, so I guess he is just sort of naturally alpha. Still he is a very nice guy considering his stature, but not the kind of nice guy who kisses women's asses.
Anyhow the conversation lasted probably 10 minutes, and then I excused myself and left (practicing the concept of "leaving on a high note", which obviously is a good idea when dating women.) So I'm counting this as one conversation for my boot camp Week 2.5. Also I'm starting my conversation count over and dropping that one measly conversation I had in the "first" Week 2.
Convo count for the day: 1
Total convo count: 1
HB convo count: 0
MoveYourAss...
Senior Don Juan
Nice to see you back in the game, MrCode.
Pitty you're not in "nice old europe", would be fun to wing each other sometimes.
Keep it up,
MoveYourA$$...and your brain will follow
Pitty you're not in "nice old europe", would be fun to wing each other sometimes.
Keep it up,
MoveYourA$$...and your brain will follow
MoveYourAss...
Senior Don Juan
just to bore
it's "hardship", not "hardness", sorry for the language-thing.
you got it anyway, though.
it's "hardship", not "hardness", sorry for the language-thing.
you got it anyway, though.
MrCode
Senior Don Juan
Week 2.5, Day 3 - A Day of Casual Conversation
Yeah I understood what you meant with that saying MoveYourAss. Don't worry, your English is much better than my German. In fact, all I know is the few words I've learned from movies or Rammstein, and how to count from 1-10.
Today (Saturday, October 2, 2004) I spend way too much time at my house, but I think I made the most of the time I had while I was out.
I had to take some books back to the library, so my first stop was there. As you might expect, this is not a good place for doing boot camp exercises. Even saying hi is hard because everyone is so engrossed in what they are doing, whether that is reading, using a computer, or browsing the stacks. I did get one hi from a library employee though, which I warmly returned, hehehehe. I spent about 20 minutes getting some books that I wanted, then went to check out. I was going to start a conversation with the lady checking me out, but got interrupted. Oh well, on to my next location, Home Depot.
I spent quite a while there just walking around, and got a good number of hi's in (I've got to keep that skill fresh.) I did find people more receptive than I did in Week 1. I think this is because I wasn't so "desperate" to get a hi back since that wasn't the exercise I was focusing on. Also I think I give off more of a friendly and approachable vibe now than I did before the boot camp.
Not long after arriving I had a short conversation with a Home Depot employee, but I'm not counting that because I was asking about something in relation to his job. Plus the conversation was well under 2 minutes. I'm starting to think using employees for conversations in the Week 2 exercises is cheating, because it is too easy and they almost have no choice but to talk to you. But they make good practice.
I did have a decent conversation with a couple in the roofing section. They were looking at shingles so I figured they had some roof damage from the hurricanes as I did. Perfect conversation opener, since simple rapport could be built based on our common troubles. Of course it ended up being a conversation only about that, though before I was done they seemed to think I was some roofing expert (really I had just checked a few things online.) I'm not sure if they were even a couple, since the man mentioned that she had hurricane damage instead of saying they had it. The women was pretty cute, but a bit old for my tastes (mid to late 30s.)
I think I need to improve my conversation skills so that I ask some more personal questions from people and get them to open up a bit. Having a short, casual, superficial conversation is not that hard, and if that is all I do with women, I won't be getting many numbers. I also have not been practicing any C&F with strangers I talk to, though it could be argued that with men in particular it would be pointless (certainly the ****y side of it is.)
After a couple more rounds about the store I had everything I needed and went to check-out. As usual I picked the slowest line, but despite wanting to talk to the people in the line with me, I just couldn't find a good opener.
One interesting thing did happen with the checkout girl that has happened to me before. As my credit card was processing she sort of looks over to the guy at the next register and tiredly asks what time it was. Since I had just looked at my phone (which doubles as my watch), I told her is was 6:10 (PM of course.) She then says "only 20 more minutes", therefore telling me she was getting off at 6:30. I ask if it had been a rough day and she said it had just been really busy. So she gives me a nice smile as she is giving me my receipt and tells me to have a nice night.
Anyhow, the point of all this is to ask if the "I'm getting off soon" type of thing is an IOI? She wasn't that hot, so I'm not that worried that I missed out on something, but back in college this also happened to me with a bag girl at the supermarket, except she was very hot. I saw her a few times actually, and even in those days I knew she was at least a little interested, but being the puzzy I was I never did anything about it. Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Convo count for the day: 1
Total convo count: 2
HB convo count: 0
Yeah I understood what you meant with that saying MoveYourAss. Don't worry, your English is much better than my German. In fact, all I know is the few words I've learned from movies or Rammstein, and how to count from 1-10.
Today (Saturday, October 2, 2004) I spend way too much time at my house, but I think I made the most of the time I had while I was out.
I had to take some books back to the library, so my first stop was there. As you might expect, this is not a good place for doing boot camp exercises. Even saying hi is hard because everyone is so engrossed in what they are doing, whether that is reading, using a computer, or browsing the stacks. I did get one hi from a library employee though, which I warmly returned, hehehehe. I spent about 20 minutes getting some books that I wanted, then went to check out. I was going to start a conversation with the lady checking me out, but got interrupted. Oh well, on to my next location, Home Depot.
I spent quite a while there just walking around, and got a good number of hi's in (I've got to keep that skill fresh.) I did find people more receptive than I did in Week 1. I think this is because I wasn't so "desperate" to get a hi back since that wasn't the exercise I was focusing on. Also I think I give off more of a friendly and approachable vibe now than I did before the boot camp.
Not long after arriving I had a short conversation with a Home Depot employee, but I'm not counting that because I was asking about something in relation to his job. Plus the conversation was well under 2 minutes. I'm starting to think using employees for conversations in the Week 2 exercises is cheating, because it is too easy and they almost have no choice but to talk to you. But they make good practice.
I did have a decent conversation with a couple in the roofing section. They were looking at shingles so I figured they had some roof damage from the hurricanes as I did. Perfect conversation opener, since simple rapport could be built based on our common troubles. Of course it ended up being a conversation only about that, though before I was done they seemed to think I was some roofing expert (really I had just checked a few things online.) I'm not sure if they were even a couple, since the man mentioned that she had hurricane damage instead of saying they had it. The women was pretty cute, but a bit old for my tastes (mid to late 30s.)
I think I need to improve my conversation skills so that I ask some more personal questions from people and get them to open up a bit. Having a short, casual, superficial conversation is not that hard, and if that is all I do with women, I won't be getting many numbers. I also have not been practicing any C&F with strangers I talk to, though it could be argued that with men in particular it would be pointless (certainly the ****y side of it is.)
After a couple more rounds about the store I had everything I needed and went to check-out. As usual I picked the slowest line, but despite wanting to talk to the people in the line with me, I just couldn't find a good opener.
One interesting thing did happen with the checkout girl that has happened to me before. As my credit card was processing she sort of looks over to the guy at the next register and tiredly asks what time it was. Since I had just looked at my phone (which doubles as my watch
), I told her is was 6:10 (PM of course.) She then says "only 20 more minutes", therefore telling me she was getting off at 6:30. I ask if it had been a rough day and she said it had just been really busy. So she gives me a nice smile as she is giving me my receipt and tells me to have a nice night.Anyhow, the point of all this is to ask if the "I'm getting off soon" type of thing is an IOI? She wasn't that hot, so I'm not that worried that I missed out on something, but back in college this also happened to me with a bag girl at the supermarket, except she was very hot. I saw her a few times actually, and even in those days I knew she was at least a little interested, but being the puzzy I was I never did anything about it. Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Convo count for the day: 1
Total convo count: 2
HB convo count: 0
“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”
Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.
Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers. Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.
I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.
Ever onward
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Messages
- 968
- Reaction score
- 3
I don't think it was an IOI. Usually if you get an IoI from a girl, it's so obvious that you know it.
But hey, take a page from my book. Don't wait for an IoI. If you feel like asking her out, do it. Your in Bootcamp. Society's rules no longer apply.
LOL, just don't get arrested.
But hey, take a page from my book. Don't wait for an IoI. If you feel like asking her out, do it. Your in Bootcamp. Society's rules no longer apply.
LOL, just don't get arrested.
MoveYourAss...
Senior Don Juan
week 3, day 2-3
Mike: congrats, you are taking the first steps without much fuss.
My own situation
day 2:0
day 3:0-1
difficult to say, didn't take my book of notes.
its really difficult since I still have too high standards (in an AFC-way). It's good to keep to your standards but I also have to see other real options, not dreams. I'm not giving up the aim to get those ones in the long run, however. Nor am I going for the ugly ones. It's just that it's also nice with some reasonable beatiful, but funny & horny ones.
I did make nice progress in talking to chicks at all, initiating convo with them, and I found out: They do NOT bite, and its not really a problem at all. i know, i know, but I really had to relearn this, it seems. perfect BC-design, again.
Week3 is nearly half over and I have maybe 1, but my hopes are still placed on the weekend. I also realized that I have to practive on the not-so-hot-ones, and that this really helps me to get more comfortable and relaxed. I was in AFC-mode for quite some years.
Most of the time I tried to do cold street approaches, since I found that there is lots of fluctuation -> more interesting ones. If you go & have a coffee there is only a limited amount of options. In order to fulfill the BC-requirements it is necessary for me to go clubbing more, since I'm not in college or other campus.
MoveYourA$$...and your brain will follow
Mike: congrats, you are taking the first steps without much fuss.
My own situation
day 2:0
day 3:0-1
difficult to say, didn't take my book of notes.
its really difficult since I still have too high standards (in an AFC-way). It's good to keep to your standards but I also have to see other real options, not dreams. I'm not giving up the aim to get those ones in the long run, however. Nor am I going for the ugly ones. It's just that it's also nice with some reasonable beatiful, but funny & horny ones.
I did make nice progress in talking to chicks at all, initiating convo with them, and I found out: They do NOT bite, and its not really a problem at all. i know, i know, but I really had to relearn this, it seems. perfect BC-design, again.
Week3 is nearly half over and I have maybe 1, but my hopes are still placed on the weekend. I also realized that I have to practive on the not-so-hot-ones, and that this really helps me to get more comfortable and relaxed. I was in AFC-mode for quite some years.
Most of the time I tried to do cold street approaches, since I found that there is lots of fluctuation -> more interesting ones. If you go & have a coffee there is only a limited amount of options. In order to fulfill the BC-requirements it is necessary for me to go clubbing more, since I'm not in college or other campus.
MoveYourA$$...and your brain will follow
MoveYourAss...
Senior Don Juan
oh ****, wrong thread
Sorry for posting this in your thread.
I opened yours too for reply to ask where you are, lazy bones ??
MoveYourA$$... and your brain will follow
Sorry for posting this in your thread.
I opened yours too for reply to ask where you are, lazy bones ??
MoveYourA$$... and your brain will follow
MrCode
Senior Don Juan
Week 2.5 Days 4-7: Days of Apathy
I've totally slacked on the Boot Camp...and I don't care. Now before you all lambast me or think to yourselves "yet another lost soul on the Boot Camp", I have not given up. These past few days have just found me fatigued and lacking any motivation, not just for boot camp, but for many things. But the beauty is I understand why I'm like this.
I have not been getting enough sleep. For various reasons I've stayed up late, and then had to get up fairly early to go to work. The result: an average of 5 hours sleep a night, and a constant gnawing fatigue. This is not the kind of state you need to be in to strike up conversations with strangers, let alone attractive women.
But I have to wonder if this repetitive staying up too late is not a subconcious way of making me avoid the boot camp exercise. I admit, I'm still afraid to talk to strangers.
But the irony is I think I'll be able to talk to women. So despite having another very poor showing in Boot Camp Week 2, I'm going to move on to Week 3. This time I'm going to go to some bars with the specific, low pressure purpose of just talking to attractive women. If things go well, maybe I'll get a number or two. If not, oh well. I will be happy as long as I have the number of conversations I need (and want) to meet the Boot Camp goals. If not? I'll keep trying.
One nice thing is starting next week I'll be attending an adult education class (Cartooning) on Thursday night. I'm not in hopes of meeting any hot girls there (I think the attendence will be small), but maybe I can continue honing my conversation skills in a more natural environment. I'll truly envy you guys still in college: classes are a fantastic way to meet people, women included of course, so take advantage of it!
Week 2.5 Result: 2 measly conversations.
I'm sure most of the people reading this know the meaning of the word apathy, but I thought a specific reminder of it would help clarify my feelings over the past few days.
I've totally slacked on the Boot Camp...and I don't care. Now before you all lambast me or think to yourselves "yet another lost soul on the Boot Camp", I have not given up. These past few days have just found me fatigued and lacking any motivation, not just for boot camp, but for many things. But the beauty is I understand why I'm like this.
I have not been getting enough sleep. For various reasons I've stayed up late, and then had to get up fairly early to go to work. The result: an average of 5 hours sleep a night, and a constant gnawing fatigue. This is not the kind of state you need to be in to strike up conversations with strangers, let alone attractive women.
But I have to wonder if this repetitive staying up too late is not a subconcious way of making me avoid the boot camp exercise. I admit, I'm still afraid to talk to strangers.
But the irony is I think I'll be able to talk to women. So despite having another very poor showing in Boot Camp Week 2, I'm going to move on to Week 3. This time I'm going to go to some bars with the specific, low pressure purpose of just talking to attractive women. If things go well, maybe I'll get a number or two. If not, oh well. I will be happy as long as I have the number of conversations I need (and want) to meet the Boot Camp goals. If not? I'll keep trying.
One nice thing is starting next week I'll be attending an adult education class (Cartooning) on Thursday night. I'm not in hopes of meeting any hot girls there (I think the attendence will be small), but maybe I can continue honing my conversation skills in a more natural environment. I'll truly envy you guys still in college: classes are a fantastic way to meet people, women included of course, so take advantage of it!
Week 2.5 Result: 2 measly conversations.
“The 22 Rules That Turned Me From Invisible to Irresistible With Women… Starting Tonight”
You can skip the expensive cars, the fancy clothes, and the endless gym selfies. Completely unnecessary.
I used to freeze the second a beautiful woman looked my way. Frustrated. Awkward. Watching other guys walk away with the girl while I stood there tongue-tied.
Then I discovered 22 simple rules that rewired my entire dating life. The anxiety vanished. Conversations flowed effortlessly. Women started chasing me for a change.
These rules trigger a woman's subconscious attraction switches. And you can start using them tonight.
Ever onward
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Messages
- 968
- Reaction score
- 3
MrCode-
I too am having trouble with conversations lately. I only have 4 to go to complete week 2 and I just can't get them. It's not that I'm afraid to talk to people, at least not anymore, it's just that I can't seem to find a good situation to strike up a conversation.
There have been a few times when I've been feeling down lately and the cure for that seems to be saying hi to hot women and getting good responses....or even getting into conversations. That was until I hit this dry spell. Well the point is success leads to further motivation and you can't have success unless you truly push yourself out of your comfort zone.
I think the problem for me is I've experienced some success early on. Then I start feeling comfortable, like I don't have to push myself as much, big mistake.
Anyways, I plan to be on week 4 by next friday, whatever it takes. I'm going to Omaha, which is much bigger than where I live and there are going to be tons of women to get rejected by and I won't have to worry about being embarrassed.
Keep going MrCode, we're all in this together.
I too am having trouble with conversations lately. I only have 4 to go to complete week 2 and I just can't get them. It's not that I'm afraid to talk to people, at least not anymore, it's just that I can't seem to find a good situation to strike up a conversation.
There have been a few times when I've been feeling down lately and the cure for that seems to be saying hi to hot women and getting good responses....or even getting into conversations. That was until I hit this dry spell. Well the point is success leads to further motivation and you can't have success unless you truly push yourself out of your comfort zone.
I think the problem for me is I've experienced some success early on. Then I start feeling comfortable, like I don't have to push myself as much, big mistake.
Anyways, I plan to be on week 4 by next friday, whatever it takes. I'm going to Omaha, which is much bigger than where I live and there are going to be tons of women to get rejected by and I won't have to worry about being embarrassed.
Keep going MrCode, we're all in this together.