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More Appreciative about College Education

WORKEROUTER

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In the last couple posts of mine, I have questioned the importance, even the necessity, of a college diploma. There were a lot of mixed responses here, many saying it is obviously useful while others chanting the irrelevance of a diploma in actually building financial success.

However, over the past month or so, I have been out trying to support myself and trying to get a job, and what I realize is that I really have nothing to set me apart from anyone else.

If I could invest, I would. But without any money, how is one going to invest? And not only is money not there, but at 18, my line of credit isn't too developed, either.

And so, a useful college degree DOES have many benefits. First, it helps to set a person apart from the mass of people fighting for an 8 dollar per hour job. Now obviously just ANY degree won't help a person. Indeed, one has to have direction. Just obtaining a diploma for the hell of it probably IS useless. Secondly, many degrees allow a person to get into at least a moderately-good paying job.

An engineer, for example, can expect to make around 40000 his/her first year of working.

After obtaining a useful diploma and securing a moderately-good paying job, one actually has the assetts to invest. Sure, a job won't make you rich, but it will provide you with the safety net needed to make investments, which WILL make you rich.

For me, I want to focus on getting into the biotechnology business that is dfeinately developing. And so, I will get my degree in this field and then continue on to get a business degree.

At that point, I can begin to climb up the ladder. Would it be possible without the degree to achieve the same positions? Possibly. Is it a lot harder and more risky? Definately.

Sure, there ARE a few millionaires out there who have never graduated from college (I've known a couple personally). They worked up the ladder for many years and were excellent business men. However, there are also thousands of those who never got an education and are still sitting at the bottom rung trying to scrape up enough to survive.

In any place you look, people are looking for a quick buck. People flock to scams to make their millions "in just a couple years." But in the end, it seems that achieving financial success requires hard work, diligence, discipline, and most importantly, patience. Will education in itself provide a person financial sucess? Obviously not. But it can definately help make it a more secure journey.

It's easy to get disillusioned by "rags to riches" tales. People see the millions owned by the high-school dropout business man but forget the long years when he toiled for pennies trying to survive or the years it took to move up the ladder, inch by inch. There is no easy route, and if it someone says otherwise, there's probably a scam built into it.

And so, I have come to the conclusion that a diploma IS useful. As long as one doesn't become stuck in a drone job forever, but sees it as a way to move up, the couple years it takes to secure a solid education and receive a worthwhile degree seems very beneficial...there will still be ample time to build financial security, and education will ultimately help.
 

Dust 2 Dust

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If you don't have a degree on your resume then you have nothing to seperate you from the 50 other people who are applying for the same job as you.

Most companies won't put people in upper management positions regardless of experience unless you have a degree.
 

sifer

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Unfortunately, we're very different.

I never had a high school degree, I reside in NY, and I have made my own investment.
 

Reiki

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@Sifer

How did you make your first investment?
 

spider_007

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People are now days getting an education for the WRONG REASONS. Having that piece of paper meens something, I won't deny that, but peple are placing too much importance on the TITLES. You decided to go to colleage to educate your self, so you can have some knowlage and hopefully some day make good money. And that is exacly what you should be doing. You should be taking corses/programs, that will educate you in the things you want/need to know. One set of corses for what ever you'r interasted in; engeneering, teaching, healing people (Phd)....and another set to learn about money, how it works, and how to make the best of it. ISTN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT - MONEY

I think it's funny haw some people go to school and take corses/programs, so that they can one day make money, but forget to take the corses that acctually have something to do with money.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by spider_007
People are now days getting an education for the WRONG REASONS. Having that piece of paper meens something, I won't deny that, but peple are placing too much importance on the TITLES.
It might be an issue there but in the states, people place too much importance on the income based on the average salary earned in a profession. So you tend to see a lot of lawyers and doctors in the states. Not many artists or philosophers anymore.
 

spider_007

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Originally posted by sifer
Not many artists or philosophers anymore.
I HATE ARTIST AND PHILOSPHERS

What i was trying to say is, DON'T BOX YOUR SELF IN WITH A CARRIER orientated Education. Educate your self in a way that will let you live a FULL LIFE, doing what you like. Educate your self in "the ways of money" so that one day you can work (doing what you love) for 6 months and vacation for the other 6 months.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by spider_007
I HATE ARTIST AND PHILOSPHERS
Why would you hate two entire subjects?

What i was trying to say is, DON'T BOX YOUR SELF IN WITH A CARRIER orientated Education. Educate your self in a way that will let you live a FULL LIFE, doing what you like. Educate your self in "the ways of money" so that one day you can work (doing what you love) for 6 months and vacation for the other 6 months.
Just curious, what happens if the person happens to love drawing or singing? Can you give an example of (even remotely) working 6 month and vacationing 6 month?
 

spider_007

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when i say; "I hate artists" I mean those people who sit on the street corner playing gitar/ painting for a coin. GET A FREAKING LIFE.........

As for an example; my ex boss (even tho he is older) he owns a small company (30-40 million) showed up when he wanted, went when and where he wanted. back 10-15 years he was doing what he loved (working in a machine shop) but he decided he didn't want to bust his ass 12 hours a day doing it for someone else. So he decided to learn about money/buisness..... opend his own buisness......still does what he lowes........and much more.......

so now he has money, and he is doing what he wants; eather working in the shop/ traveling/ golfing......

after all isn't that to whole point??
 

sifer

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Originally posted by spider_007
when i say; "I hate artists" I mean those people who sit on the street corner playing gitar/ painting for a coin. GET A FREAKING LIFE.........
I believe those are people trying to scrape a living. It's very hard for them, even then.

As for an example; my ex boss (even tho he is older) he owns a small company (30-40 million) showed up when he wanted, went when and where he wanted. back 10-15 years he was doing what he loved (working in a machine shop) but he decided he didn't want to bust his ass 12 hours a day doing it for someone else. So he decided to learn about money/buisness..... opend his own buisness......still does what he lowes........and much more.......

so now he has money, and he is doing what he wants; eather working in the shop/ traveling/ golfing......

after all isn't that to whole point??

Ok, well that's good, but can't forget it isn't that easy, as owning/running a business is risky. Not many make it simply because of that. I usually recommend college/job course for people who aren't like businessowners, those that can't take risk.
 

spider_007

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Well tell me if this makes sence:

we want to live comforatable lives - right?

to do that we need money -right?

but instead of educating our selfs about money so that we can wisely make it (so that we can have that ultimate goal - comforatable happy life) we go a learn how to work for somebody else earning pety cash...... And then 30 years lather when we go to retaier in old age, we still haven't reached out goal.......

point: you wana be an engeneer, ofice manager, garbage man, or a plumber, that's fine, what ever you want to do, but don't you think it's kinda stupid not to educate your self in the ways of money??? You still need to know how to make YOUR OWN BALANCE SHEET, among other things (investing, reallestate, economy, personal/busness accounting,) Money makes everything possible, once you have that, then your job can be your hobby.

I have friends who owe money and still went out and bough a brand new car. and then have the balls to complain about having to work 12 hours a day to pay it off........ stupid ???? very!!!
 

WORKEROUTER

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Originally posted by spider_007
Well tell me if this makes sence:

we want to live comforatable lives - right?

to do that we need money -right?

but instead of educating our selfs about money so that we can wisely make it (so that we can have that ultimate goal - comforatable happy life) we go a learn how to work for somebody else earning pety cash...... And then 30 years lather when we go to retaier in old age, we still haven't reached out goal.......

point: you wana be an engeneer, ofice manager, garbage man, or a plumber, that's fine, what ever you want to do, but don't you think it's kinda stupid not to educate your self in the ways of money??? You still need to know how to make YOUR OWN BALANCE SHEET, among other things (investing, reallestate, economy, personal/busness accounting,) Money makes everything possible, once you have that, then your job can be your hobby.

I have friends who owe money and still went out and bough a brand new car. and then have the balls to complain about having to work 12 hours a day to pay it off........ stupid ???? very!!!
A stable job offers the benefit of actually giving the person some capital to invest in.

You need money to invest, and you need credit. Both of these are a lot more available with a stable job acting as a safety net. In this way, if a job is combined with a solid knowledge of finance, a person can make much safer and wiser investments.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by WORKEROUTER
A stable job offers the benefit of actually giving the person some capital to invest in.

You need money to invest, and you need credit. Both of these are a lot more available with a stable job acting as a safety net. In this way, if a job is combined with a solid knowledge of finance, a person can make much safer and wiser investments.
Most people (specifically and majority are middle class) should be much more wealthier or richer by then.

WORKEROUTER, I suggest you check out these two books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-7437582-0740910?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Millionaire Mind

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-7437582-0740910?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Millionaire Next Door

These books are statistic on millionaires and how or what they do to make a living. You'd be surprise, many of these millionaires were made in one generation and oftentime short, through hard-work, smart saving, and doing the things they love.

In one of the books, it says, "the reason why the authors aren't rich was because the authors were busy chasing degrees for more a better paying job!"

"By sending the child to school, they are destroying the very foundation that made them rich."

"I find no correlation between SAT scores, grade-point averages and economic achievement. None."

This means that just because you go to one of the Ivy Leagues doesn't mean you'll be rich or the next millionaire. There is no correlation, ANYONE can get rich and wealthy. All it takes is proper planning and will (there are more, these two are my foundation of my success), and guess what?

You can pick out any Ivy Leagues student and you will see majority of them do not have proper planning. I've gotten response from them when I ask "what do you plan to do after you graduate college?" They often give me "I don't know, that's so far away I don't really care".

If you have a job, I bet chances are you also cannot invest as well as those who specialize nor can you run a business properly.

Take stock investing, you will not be able to monitor its up and down while at work, therefore put you at more risk.

Take real estate investing, after you come home from work, say 6PM, let's say you decide to start investing at 6:30PM, you must find a lawyer, find the house, so on and so forth. In fact, many people have told me they quit REI simply because they found it impossible to invest in RE or anything else because it takes so much time. Then paperworks, oh paperworks in RE will definitely eat your hours up.

Again, make your own choice. If you need a job to fund your capital, well, that's you. I've never had a job and never will (except if you count real estate investing or owning a business as one).

Remember, this is your life, not mine, not your parent's. Live it well and trust your instinct.
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by sifer

"I find no correlation between SAT scores, grade-point averages and economic achievement. None."
Yes, but there is a very well-documented correlation between level of education and economic achievement. College graduates earn more on average than non-graduates, and those with PhDs or Masters earn higher on average than those with only Bachelors.

Originally posted by sifer
You can pick out any Ivy Leagues student and you will see majority of them do not have proper planning. I've gotten response from them when I ask "what do you plan to do after you graduate college?" They often give me "I don't know, that's so far away I don't really care".
As a student at highly ranked college (above several Ivy leagues) I have to take issue with this statement. You could probably find a handful of freshmen with such an attitude, but half of college is about finding out what you what to do with your life anyways. You certainly cannot say accurately that the "majority" of students feel that way.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by Interpol
Yes, but there is a very well-documented correlation between level of education and economic achievement. College graduates earn more on average than non-graduates, and those with PhDs or Masters earn higher on average than those with only Bachelors.
There is absolutely no correlation. I'm talking about getting wealthy and rich here no matter who you are, you're talking about earning money as whether you are a high school graduate or college graduate.

Perhap money or wealth doesn't mean very much to you and I realized that, I also won't argue against that because it isn't.

In fact, I actually encourage people to go to college than not go, because this society needs a large middle class society. If everyone was a millionaire then millions would be the new average.

And for that, life is great. If everyone took my advice, I wouldn't be too comfortable knowing that my next-door is getting wealthier and that sooner or later noone will work for me.

John Parks is a multimillionaire today, he says...
[...]
The geniuses who have worked for me know more and more about less and less! A lot of intellectuals get drawn into careers in research, academia . . . things that tend not to be managerial or entrepreneurial . . . . They're not practical for the most part.
[...]
Ah ha! This is something most middle class are not today, my neighbors are middle class. None of them are entrepreneurs, they all work hard, hard, very hard for people like me, they go to school for better degrees hoping people like me will promote them.

Go be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant!

The society needs you!

Another millionaire speaks from an interview,
Dr. Stanley: What was your grade point average in college?
ESP (Extraordinary Sales Professional): C.
Dr. Stanley: How many As did you receive in college?
ESP: At least one or two. I certainly would have had a lot of As if I had been paid a commission for each A I earned. I work for money, not As.
 

sifer

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Originally posted by Interpol
As a student at highly ranked college (above several Ivy leagues) I have to take issue with this statement. You could probably find a handful of freshmen with such an attitude, but half of college is about finding out what you what to do with your life anyways. You certainly cannot say accurately that the "majority" of students feel that way.
You would agree with me when I say this, first, realistically not everyone here in sosuave will make it to Ivy Leagues, secondly, I am accurate enough when I say majority of the students in college feel that way.

As for the "half of college is about finding out what you what to do with your life anyways". This is the biggest downfall, the minute you put yourself in debt, a negative debt, is the minute you start working for the rest of your life.

I've never been in a negative debt before but it's also a path I'm not willing to take.

Again I have said before, if you love what you do, no amount of negative debt will stop you.
 

sifer

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Interpol

I pose a question to you since you attend one of the major top college;

How would you go about refuting this?

If you ask the average American what it takes to become a millionaire, he'd probably cite a number of predictable factors: inheritance, luck, stock market investments, and so on. Topping his list would be a high IQ, high SAT scores, and grade point average (GPA), along with attendance at a top college or university.

[...]

It may be difficult to dislodge this cherished myth from our thinking, [...]
Unless I've been misunderstanding all along, it is NOT true that a college degree will help you get rich or wealthy.
 

Interpol

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Originally posted by sifer
Interpol

I pose a question to you since you attend one of the major top college;

How would you go about refuting this?

If you ask the average American what it takes to become a millionaire, he'd probably cite a number of predictable factors: inheritance, luck, stock market investments, and so on. Topping his list would be a high IQ, high SAT scores, and grade point average (GPA), along with attendance at a top college or university.

[...]

It may be difficult to dislodge this cherished myth from our thinking, [...]

Unless I've been misunderstanding all along, it is NOT true that a college degree will help you get rich or wealthy.
The reason most Americans cite those factors is the same reason that smart-ass authors attempt to make those people look foolish by harping on about how those factors, in truth, are unimportant.

The truth, as you should know too, is that there is no single thing alone in life that can guarantee you financial success. Not luck, not intelligence, not a great college degree, not even hard work. Success comes from an inexorable combination of all those things that is impossible to break down and define.
 
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