Michael Sartain: Approaching Strangers is Dead

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Let's take a 22yrs old quality girl. Cold approaching her at the grocery store as a 40yrs old man would lead to nowhere, as she'd either ignore you or give short, polite answers and would get away from you asap. That's because one of the traits of a quality girl is she doesn't talk to strangers, particularly men almost double her age trying to run game on her.

Now take the same 22yrs old girl meeting a 40yrs old man trough social circle. He's not a weirdo stranger hitting on her at the grocery store. He's Mr. XYZ, whose status has already been vetted by the social circle. Night and day situation.

While I appreciate your attempt at explaining this nonsense, I'm still not buying it.

You said one of the traits of a quality girl, is she doesn't talk to strangers.

I disagree with your definition, and your premise.

Perhaps this 20 yr old young woman won't talk to a 40 yr old you, but she will talk to a 40 yr old me (or vice versa).
....

True story, I encountered this 21 year old woman at work, and this was only the second time I had seen her since I started working there...and I never spoke to her.

But one day, we crossed paths and she kept looking at me (stealing glances).

Picking up on the signals, I spit that game to her. I asked her age...she said 21.

I told her I was old enough to be her pops, and told her my age.

Her response; it doesn't matter.

I made the bold move by going for the kiss on the elevator, and we had a brief makeout session on the elevator.

Of course, I got her # and was making plans to smash, and I would have...had she not fallen out of my good graces.

I said all that to say this, if the woman is feeling you, then all of these perceived hindrances you guys have in your minds doesn't matter.

If she was feeling me at work, she would be feeling me at the grocery store on a cold approach.

Ain't shiit change but the location.

 

[SW15]

Let's take a 22yrs old quality girl. Cold approaching her at the grocery store as a 40yrs old man would lead to nowhere, as she'd either ignore you or give short, polite answers and would get away from you asap. That's because one of the traits of a quality girl is she doesn't talk to strangers, particularly men almost double her age trying to run game on her.

It's going to be a challenge for a 40 year old man to pick up an attractive 22 year old at a grocery store. He would have be an exceptional 40 year old in terms of both looks and money in most cases. A 22 year old woman could get a hot guy near her own age, so an attractive 40 year old man means nothing to her. An attractive 40 year old man with money means something as the 20 something attractive guys she can get often lack money.

It's also true that 22-28 year old men will also have a difficult time in picking up an attractive 22 year woman at the grocery store. If they manage to make the approach, they will find out that the typical woman they approach in the grocery store isn't seeking new penis at that exact moment they approach. Most 22-28 year old men won't get eliminated on age, but most will get eliminated because the 22 year old isn't seeking new penis at the moment.

When I was in a college campus, I discovered that most women on campus were unmarried but far fewer were actually available. Most women had "boyfriends of the moment" while on campus. While most of these college-based relationships didn't stand the test of time, they were meaningful enough to get in the way of the approach I was doing in that moment.

The same thing happens in big city neighborhoods with younger adults. While the actual marriage rate is lower in many of these years, it doesn't mean much because women have boyfriends in any given moment and aren't willing to entertain a new penis.

The previous 2 text blocks demonstrate why non-bar approaching is difficult. Random women in non-bar venues usually don't want to engage with most men. This is why a lot of conversations fizzle out within 30-60 seconds.

In nightlife venues, there's a far greater chance that the woman is seeking new penis, but nightlife venue approaching has many downsides too.

Now take the same 22yrs old girl meeting a 40yrs old man trough social circle. He's not a weirdo stranger hitting on her at the grocery store. He's Mr. XYZ, whose status has already been vetted by the social circle. Night and day situation.

Yes, that's going to help the 40 year old. There would be an unusual set of circumstances where a 40 year old would be in the same social circle as early to mid 20 somethings. Most 40 year old men who find themselves needing to find new women are going to lack access to that age group through social circle. This is part of why many 40 year old men end up settling with a woman close to his own age. That's where he has access. Those who promote the idea of a male peak near age 40 are incorrect.

 

[pipeman84]

True story, I encountered this 21 year old woman at work, and this was only the second time I had seen her since I started working there...and I never spoke to her.

But one day, we crossed paths and she kept looking at me (stealing glances).

Picking up on the signals, I spit that game to her. I asked her age...she said 21.

I told her I was old enough to be her pops, and told her my age.

Her response; it doesn't matter.

I made the bold move by going for the kiss on the elevator, and we had a brief makeout session on the elevator.

Of course, I got her # and was making plans to smash, and I would have...had she not fallen out of my good graces.

I said all that to say this, if the woman is feeling you, then all of these perceived hindrances you guys have in your minds doesn't matter.

If she was feeling me at work, she would be feeling me at the grocery store on a cold approach.

Ain't shiit change but the location.

Your example doesn't qualify as cold approach (she'd already seen you AND she'd given you IOIs). Furthermore the girl is not a quality girl, otherwise she wouldn't be making out with a guy she barely knows.

 

[CoolWave1331]

I had you guys in mind last night and decided to bring up this topic

There's a woman in my neighborhood i've gone on two dates with, just started recently. She lives with three other roommates in an apartment on the next block from mine. There is a park very close to us and this where I first saw them last summer. They would sun bathe on the grass and I figured they had to live in the area since I saw them there various times.

A few weeks ago I took my dog to the park during lunchtime on a day I was WFH and I encountered them there sun bathing again. I have a Collie, black & white one, he's very friendly. When we were walking by he went up to one of the girls and they told me they loved my dog. We made some small talk, found out we lived close to each other etc. Next time I saw them they weren't all together, was just two of them. I got the # after the friend got up and left for a bit, she returne with lunch they were doing some kind of picnic thing. I went on two dates so far with this woman, our "third" was yesterday but wasn't 1 on 1 I told her to bring her roommates. All but one came and I did a bbq.

I did ask what they would have thought if I had just approached them th very first time I saw them. They said something like they saw me around before so I wasn't stranger; they didn't seem big on idea of being 'cold approached'. These are 24-25 year olds.

 

[Manure Spherian]

This is the best way to become a single man in his 50s.

I don’t get it.

 

[Manure Spherian]

It's OVER for NoSocialCircleBeforeAge25Cels. The only time I was in a situation when gals would date friends was when I was 14, and the chicks were 12.

If you don’t mind explaining briefly, what happened since then? I cast no negative judgment here, only empathy. I believe there is a cohort of men who simply lead isolated lives and consequently womanless lives.

 

[SW15]

If you don’t mind explaining briefly, what happened since then? I cast no negative judgment here, only empathy. I believe there is a cohort of men who simply lead isolated lives and consequently womanless lives.

@MatureDJ had multiple factors working against him, some of which I can piece together from various posts over the years.

1. Height: @MatureDJ is 5'4"-5'5" and in the lowest percentile of height. This is the biggest factor that has hurt him. I've experienced women discarding me over height and I'm 5'10" and in the average height tier.

2. His high school. @MatureDJ attended an all-boys high school. @MatureDJ at a co-ed high school likely would not made much of a difference due to below average height.

All-boys high schools are tough environments for a lot of males. A boy's social success during Grades 9-12 at an all-boys high school would depend on the strength of his social network from the K-8 years. Some boys have a social network that's strong enough with good female connections to get through that. Other boys don't have that.

Boys who have younger sisters close in age (1-2 grades behind, either at co-ed schools or an all-girls schools) have a major advantage.

Most all-boys schools have a nearby all-girls school and there are some socials between the two schools. It doesn't happen frequently enough. Unless these social are weekly (I've never heard of that), it wouldn't be enough. Apparently, @MatureDJ 's all-boys school did zero social with any nearby all-girls school.

A male spending Grades 9-12 at an all boys school without the right social infrastructure in place can be a significant setback.

3. STEM major in college: STEM classes have fewer females in them. Additionally, STEM men often have an odd personality dynamic that women do not find attractive. One or both of these factors are difficult. This in addition to height and building on the high school experience is a brutal combination.

4. Numerous adulthood relocations: While he lived in the USA, he mentioned living in Southern California for a short period, he mentioned living in Denver for a few winters and going to Colorado ski areas, and he mentioned a short term working gig (less than 8-9 months) in Phoenix in 2002.

At some point after Phoenix, he relocated internationally to try to improve poontang outcomes.

Relocations weaken social circle options.

5. Money: His annual salary while in the USA was not high enough to offset his height during his 20s and 30s. As a STEM worker, it would have been possible to have a high salary. A mid tier to upper mid tier STEM salary isn't enough to impress women.

If I were a single man in his 40s (I’m not) I’d initiate conversation with women giving me IOIs. I’d also use the gym, dating apps, work, and events of interest.

This is the best way to become a single man in his 50s.

I don’t get it.

I can explain.

IOIs are not common for a lot of men.

Approaching strangers and swipe apps are also lower percentage plays.

That's why he thinks that it would be a weak position to operate from as a single male during ages 40-49.

Sartain also thinks approaching strangers in real life is dead.

 

[CoolWave1331]

If you don’t mind explaining briefly, what happened since then? I cast no negative judgment here, only empathy. I believe there is a cohort of men who simply lead isolated lives and consequently womanless lives.

your last part is not speculation, it's reality, one i'm not sure get's talked about enough

i've seen (mostly online) where there is laissez faire attitude towards dating, just be very casual and go with flow, you can be 40+ years old and conquer younger women with ease etc. i don't think this is good advice- it's dangerous even. not everyone is cut out for marriage & some can be succesful bachelors for life sure....this will not be most men. i've seen this type- during my time in university i used to work at nice restaurant, Stk(check it out if ever in chicago). was a server so i would interact with the guests as part of my job. it was a cool job in a way because got to be a pretend social scientist. i had lots of time to observe all the different couples and i was able to pick up on things - for example over time you start picking up on if the couple is having a successful date/they vibe, you see the types of men women go for etc. i would see older men with nice dates every week i worked there. yes this dynamic exists but is not really the norm... a lot of times these guys are really successful types....($$$$)

there was some good discussion above and i'm not sure what the veterans think but maybe @pipeman84 and others can give direct input: time is most precious commodity and need to get hands dirty early. you're only young for a short period of time and it is during this time you'll have the best chance (with younger girls). not only is it difficult for younger women to relate to older (10+ years) men, there's just not going to be much opportunity after university unless you work with them (maybe you'll be lucky enough to be a director of modeling agency or something). i don't think most guys are hip to idea of being 40+ years old in club full of 20ish year olds...this is not a good look you guys.

i just turned 30 and i noticed a lot of people i know starting to get married + have kids. expect to see & hear less and less because of new responsibilities, that's life. i don't have plans to get married (any time soon) but have started to give thought to future.

 

[SW15]

you can be 40+ years old and conquer younger women with ease etc. i don't think this is good advice- it's dangerous even. not everyone is cut out for marriage & some can be succesful bachelors for life sure....this will not be most men.

Most men who are single in the 40-45 age range are not doing well.

If never married & childless or divorced & childless, they are generally ignored by women 10+ years younger who are more likely to be childless. These men are usually settling for whatever mediocre to subpar women near their own age that they can get. If it's a childless women, it's usually some careerist woman with fast diminishing looks. Some might even need to end up with single moms just to tap some pussie on a semi-regular basis.

Single dads in that age range are usually settling for some mediocre single mom near their own age.

time is most precious commodity and need to get hands dirty early. you're only young for a short period of time and it is during this time you'll have the best chance (with younger girls). not only is it difficult for younger women to relate to older (10+ years) men, there's just not going to be much opportunity after university unless you work with them (maybe you'll be lucky enough to be a director of modeling agency or something). i don't think most guys are hip to idea of being 40+ years old in club full of 20ish year olds...this is not a good look you guys.

The best chance for most men to get with 20 something women is when they are in their 20s themselves. 25-30 is a good period to get with 20-26 year old women.

i just turned 30 and i noticed a lot of people i know starting to get married + have kids. expect to see & hear less and less because of new responsibilities, that's life. i don't have plans to get married (any time soon) but have started to give thought to future.

This happened to me when my friends started marrying and having kids. I even started a thread about this that has hundreds of responses. It's a good ongoing diary of what happens.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

www.sosuave.net

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

This is good insight on Sartain's MOA program.

I live in Vegas and met like four of them. One of his gf even started hitting on me IN FRONT OF HIM granted he was like 5'5 and asian and I'm 5'10 asian and jacked so she prob had a thing for asian dudes (she was white)

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Most men who are single in the 40-45 age range are not doing well.

If never married & childless or divorced & childless, they are generally ignored by women 10+ years younger who are more likely to be childless. These men are usually settling for whatever mediocre to subpar women near their own age that they can get. If it's a childless women, it's usually some careerist woman with fast diminishing looks. Some might even need to end up with single moms just to tap some pussie on a semi-regular basis.

Single dads in that age range are usually settling for some mediocre single mom near their own age.



The best chance for most men to get with 20 something women is when they are in their 20s themselves. 25-30 is a good period to get with 20-26 year old women.



This happened to me when my friends started marrying and having kids. I even started a thread about this that has hundreds of responses. It's a good ongoing diary of what happens.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

www.sosuave.net

Single men are settling for divorced or single moms. So ****ing sad. All over TikTok. Keep in shape eat well drink water and look young. You can always pull 20 year olds

 

[SW15]

Single men are settling for divorced or single moms. So ****ing sad.

It is sad.

It's common for older, childless men to get into scarcity mentality and settle on a single mom. These men do this because they think that most women in their age range already have children and that's all they can get. In some less populated areas, that might be true.

I don't think it's a big deal when an older single dad ends up with a single mom. I don't fault single dads for doing that. However, it creates a lot of complexities for the children. As mentioned earlier, older adults (50+) with children 18+ do this and it can create issues there too.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

It is sad.

It's common for older, childless men to get into scarcity mentality and settle on a single mom. These men do this because they think that most women in their age range already have children and that's all they can get. In some less populated areas, that might be true.

I don't think it's a big deal when an older single dad ends up with a single mom. I don't fault single dads for doing that. However, it creates a lot of complexities for the children. As mentioned earlier, older adults (50+) with children 18+ do this and it can create issues there too.
[/QUO

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Your example doesn't qualify as cold approach (she'd already seen you AND she'd given you IOIs).

The point is, if I'm attractive enough for her to give me IOI's, then I am attractive enough for her to be receptive to my cold approach.

The example is based on inference.

Furthermore the girl is not a quality girl, otherwise she wouldn't be making out with a guy she barely knows.

Yeah, it's amazing the things women will do for guys that they're feeling.

You've never experienced such, huh?

And as I've stated before, the quality of a woman is subjective.

A woman that makes out with me, despite barely knowing me; this woman is of quality..to me.

Especially considering the fact that some of you guys aren't making out with "quality" women that you actually know.

 

[Manure Spherian]

@MatureDJ had multiple factors working against him, some of which I can piece together from various posts over the years.

1. Height: @MatureDJ is 5'4"-5'5" and in the lowest percentile of height. This is the biggest factor that has hurt him. I've experienced women discarding me over height and I'm 5'10" and in the average height tier.

2. His high school. @MatureDJ attended an all-boys high school. @MatureDJ at a co-ed high school likely would not made much of a difference due to below average height.

All-boys high schools are tough environments for a lot of males. A boy's social success during Grades 9-12 at an all-boys high school would depend on the strength of his social network from the K-8 years. Some boys have a social network that's strong enough with good female connections to get through that. Other boys don't have that.

Boys who have younger sisters close in age (1-2 grades behind, either at co-ed schools or an all-girls schools) have a major advantage.

Most all-boys schools have a nearby all-girls school and there are some socials between the two schools. It doesn't happen frequently enough. Unless these social are weekly (I've never heard of that), it wouldn't be enough. Apparently, @MatureDJ 's all-boys school did zero social with any nearby all-girls school.

A male spending Grades 9-12 at an all boys school without the right social infrastructure in place can be a significant setback.

3. STEM major in college: STEM classes have fewer females in them. Additionally, STEM men often have an odd personality dynamic that women do not find attractive. One or both of these factors are difficult. This in addition to height and building on the high school experience is a brutal combination.

4. Numerous adulthood relocations: While he lived in the USA, he mentioned living in Southern California for a short period, he mentioned living in Denver for a few winters and going to Colorado ski areas, and he mentioned a short term working gig (less than 8-9 months) in Phoenix in 2002.

At some point after Phoenix, he relocated internationally to try to improve poontang outcomes.

Relocations weaken social circle options.

5. Money: His annual salary while in the USA was not high enough to offset his height during his 20s and 30s. As a STEM worker, it would have been possible to have a high salary. A mid tier to upper mid tier STEM salary isn't enough to impress women.







I can explain.

IOIs are not common for a lot of men.

Approaching strangers and swipe apps are also lower percentage plays.

That's why he thinks that it would be a weak position to operate from as a single male during ages 40-49.

Sartain also thinks approaching strangers in real life is dead.

I wrote gym, work, events of interest, dating apps, women giving IOI’s. What else would a middle aged man do? There are also possible introductions through friends and family, and social media.

 

[Manure Spherian]

others can give direct input: time is most precious commodity and need to get hands dirty early. you're only young for a short period of time and it is during this time you'll have the best chance

I’ve been pushing this a lot on here. Mating and dating is a young person’s game. This stuff needs to be figured out young.

 

[SW15]

I wrote gym, work, events of interest, dating apps, women giving IOI’s. What else would a middle aged man do? There are also possible introductions through friends and family, and social media.

Most middle aged men don't have a good social circle, especially childless middle aged men.

It's common for middle aged men to lack someone to join them going out to the bars. This is because middle aged single men have mainly married friends. If a middle aged man is fortunate enough to have a divorced friend or a never married friend, then he might have someone who can accompany him to bars.

Non-bar approaching is an option but is an inefficient one.

The girlfriends/wives (mainly wives) of his middle aged male friends don't usually have the social contacts to make introductions. They are typically friends with other married moms.

Instagram game is difficult.

I’ve been pushing this a lot on here. Mating and dating is a young person’s game. This stuff needs to be figured out young.

It can be, but a lot of relationships decay. Relationship decay is why a lot of people will be single again at some point later in life.

It is common for a lot of people to stay in mediocre to even subpar relationships in middle age to avoid being single again.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

It is sad.

It's common for older, childless men to get into scarcity mentality and settle on a single mom. These men do this because they think that most women in their age range already have children and that's all they can get. In some less populated areas, that might be true.

I don't think it's a big deal when an older single dad ends up with a single mom. I don't fault single dads for doing that. However, it creates a lot of complexities for the children. As mentioned earlier, older adults (50+) with children 18+ do this and it can create issues there too.

I’ve been pushing this a lot on here. Mating and dating is a young person’s game. This stuff needs to be figured out young.

Agreed I've seen dudes learn this too late and they become weirdos. Sad to say but a lot of dorks in hs will remain dorks if they find out this stuff too laye

 

[Clockwerk50]

This is the best way to become a single man in his 50s.

No lie, I thought you were between 15 and 25 years old based on the way you post. Turns out being 60 and immature isn’t doing you any favours.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Most middle aged men don't have a good social circle, especially childless middle aged men.

It's common for middle aged men to lack someone to join them going out to the bars. This is because middle aged single men have mainly married friends. If a middle aged man is fortunate enough to have a divorced friend or a never married friend, then he might have someone who can accompany him to bars.

Non-bar approaching is an option but is an inefficient one.

The girlfriends/wives (mainly wives) of his middle aged male friends don't usually have the social contacts to make introductions. They are typically friends with other married moms.

Instagram game is difficult.



It can be, but a lot of relationships decay. Relationship decay is why a lot of people will be single again at some point later in life.

It is common for a lot of people to stay in mediocre to even subpar relationships in middle age to avoid being single again.

I’m not trying to be sarcastic here. Reasonably speaking, from your post here, a middle aged man should then go MGTOW. Give up.