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MGTOW vs Incels

Pandora

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These two terms get conflated but are actually vastly different.

MGTOW: A guy who puts himself first. He is constantly involved in self improvement. He is not defined by the validation of women. Pursuing women is an afterthought. They are the extra curricular he does when he is taking a break from his own hobbies. His life goal is to become self actualized. He avoids marriage because he knows that it will stop his self actualization.

Incel: A guy who is not self improving. He desperately wants the validation of women but is to afraid to even try. These men shut themselves away from the world. They delve into escapism and fantasy games. They are often out of shape.

I am not getting pusy at the moment ( quality pusy) but I would not consider myself an incel. Last decent looking girl I smashed was June. I smashed a very low quality single mom a few months ago but she doesn't count. I am still focusing on self improvement. I have picked up hobbies that I always wanted to do but I have been to afraid to try. It is scary getting out of your comfort zone. I am getting in the best shape I have ever been. Most importantly, I am still "shooting my shot" when the chance presents itself. I am a MGTOW. Incels do not self improve, nor do they "shot their shot". If you don't try at all then you will never get anything. I am in a drought but droughts do not last forever. Its feast or famine for most men. The key is to keep focusing on living a great life during the famine.
 

badboyjmm

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Well you mentioned smashing a single mom but yet you don't count it.. It count, it's a notch but it's a building block for you to be better.

You will definitely get where you need to be with perseverance. Get in shape and maintain that discipline. That focus will definitely make you a better man, you will be more bold and ultimately, you will be more comfortable with the ladies.

Good luck
 

Serenity

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MGTOW: A guy who puts himself first. He is constantly involved in self improvement. He is not defined by the validation of women. Pursuing women is an afterthought. They are the extra curricular he does when he is taking a break from his own hobbies. His life goal is to become self actualized. He avoids marriage because he knows that it will stop his self actualization.
Fully agree up until the last sentence. That's my issue with MGTOW, even if a woman adds value to his life he will not commit. Many women will stop or slow down self actualization, some will synergize and accelerate it. A MGTOW is playing it too safe, gains don't come without risks.

Still, it seems few self proclaimed MGTOW live according to their supposed ideals as they spend a seemingly colossal amount of energy talking about women and their path. Like people in CrossFit, they're full of themselves.

Incel: A guy who is not self improving. He desperately wants the validation of women but is to afraid to even try. These men shut themselves away from the world. They delve into escapism and fantasy games. They are often out of shape.
Yup, this one is accurate. They have a defeatist mindset too. Calling themselves incels, the key word here is involuntary as if they are powerless. They are not, but they strongly believe so and as such won't even try. A quote from Henry Ford comes to mind "whether you think you can, or think you can't... You're right!".
 

AttackFormation

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Fully agree up until the last sentence. That's my issue with MGTOW, even if a woman adds value to his life he will not commit. Many women will stop or slow down self actualization, some will synergize and accelerate it. A MGTOW is playing it too safe, gains don't come without risks.

Still, it seems few self proclaimed MGTOW live according to their supposed ideals as they spend a seemingly colossal amount of energy talking about women and their path. Like people in CrossFit, they're full of themselves.


Yup, this one is accurate. They have a defeatist mindset too. Calling themselves incels, the key word here is involuntary as if they are powerless. They are not, but they strongly believe so and as such won't even try. A quote from Henry Ford comes to mind "whether you think you can, or think you can't... You're right!".
I agree with your post but to your last paragraph, I will say what you told Pandora and say I fully agree up until then haha.

The core thing I think the "incel" label is supposed to define, is where you can get after you try and by implication what you have to go through to "try". If a man is short, bald and facially average or subpar with a naturally weaker V-shape, he doesn't have the same foundation as the taller, full haired, sculpted face guy with a naturally more defined V-shape even if they both put in the same amount of effort into things like exercise. The incel would have to use drastic measures like face surgery and limb lengthening to even potentially start to get to the same place. That's not my defense of incels, just trying to bust any potential strawmen as it's not fair to throw mud at a concept due to a strawman.
 

ubercat

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Yeah I m not really sure what mgtow is about. Interacting with women on your terms just make sense. I mean why would an experienced guy jump thru flaming hoops for the puss. He's had enough so that it's not the be all and end all.

We used to just call it being your own man. I don't know what the big song and dance is about.
 

redskinsfan92

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Best not to throw a label on oneself. We are here to be Don Juan.
 

ubercat

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Yeah if I have a dry spell then am I meant to call myself incel and grow my emo fringe.

The problem is your standards rise over time. So more picky equals more dry spells. I d rather spend the time on my projects then hanging out with low grade chicks.
 

Serenity

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I agree with your post but to your last paragraph, I will say what you told Pandora and say I fully agree up until then haha.

The core thing I think the "incel" label is supposed to define, is where you can get after you try and by implication what you have to go through to "try". If a man is short, bald and facially average or subpar with a naturally weaker V-shape, he doesn't have the same foundation as the taller, full haired, sculpted face guy with a naturally more defined V-shape even if they both put in the same amount of effort into things like exercise. The incel would have to use drastic measures like face surgery and limb lengthening to even potentially start to get to the same place. That's not my defense of incels, just trying to bust any potential strawmen as it's not fair to throw mud at a concept due to a strawman.
We're in disagreement about that then. I see plenty of ugly men with women you'd never imagine seeing them with, so the argument about looks falls flat. I seriously doubt they tried the right things and it's probably not even what they try that's the issue, it's their attitude and pessimistic outlook that's the problem. I'll bet my balls they had that before even trying anything.

Sure they may have physical disadvantages, but they're not as fvcked as they think. Incels are toxic guys whining about the world not being the way they want, I have zero respect for a man who fails to take responsibility for themselves. I don't buy their bullsh!t.
 

lamath

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Im so much more active and productive when im not seeing any women, i find that when i do i dont manage my time well so got less time and energy to improve my buisness and get in shape

Been seeingn one for a few month and i can see that im not performing as i should on important aspect of.my life.
 

Pandora

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I agree with your post but to your last paragraph, I will say what you told Pandora and say I fully agree up until then haha.

The core thing I think the "incel" label is supposed to define, is where you can get after you try and by implication what you have to go through to "try". If a man is short, bald and facially average or subpar with a naturally weaker V-shape, he doesn't have the same foundation as the taller, full haired, sculpted face guy with a naturally more defined V-shape even if they both put in the same amount of effort into things like exercise. The incel would have to use drastic measures like face surgery and limb lengthening to even potentially start to get to the same place. That's not my defense of incels, just trying to bust any potential strawmen as it's not fair to throw mud at a concept due to a strawman.
My counterargument is that everyone has deficiencies. Dude I literally failed out of graduate ( medical) school because I could not pass that final board exam. I only even made it that far because of extreme hard work. I was not as intellectually gifted as the other guys. I accepted that and I moved on to a field that I am good at. I didn't cry and say " life isn't fair, why are those guys smarter than I am at medical theory".

Most of my old classmates were not getting laid and they were in awe of my social intelligence. I had advantages that they didn't. Life is fair. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Incels just focus on their weaknesses without trying to maximize their strengths. Many of these incels have a special talent that could draw in the ladies. Many of them could get very good at a musical instrument and then kill it with women. They rather spend time crying like little bi*ches.
 

Pandora

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When I first got to Vegas I went on a 9 month stretch where I couldn't get laid to save my life. Do you know how depressing it is to not be able to get laid in LAS FUKING VEGAS. Everyone around me even the nerds were getting laid. My friends were very handsome ( one was a legit fitness model) and they were getting laid alot. They even started a lay count spreadsheet as a competition among us guys. Everyone was gaining notches and my name still had a big zero under it. I was humiliated and erased my name from the list like a loser.
I didn't cry like a victim. I went back to the drawing board. I figured out what I was doing wrong.

I started working out like a mad man. I used to go to clinicals, come home, run 2 miles a day, play basketball for an hour or so, lift, eat and then sleep. I did that for months. I started hanging out with the slutty girls in the apartment complex. Most of them were ex or current strippers. I started going to parties and one day this one chick broke my dry spell. Once her friends saw me as a sexual prospect I started getting laid like crazy. I was drowning in college puzzy. This is all 100% true. So yeh, I have no sympathy for incels at all. They can suck a duck.
 

zekko

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That's my issue with MGTOW, even if a woman adds value to his life he will not commit. Many women will stop or slow down self actualization, some will synergize and accelerate it. A MGTOW is playing it too safe, gains don't come without risks.
Yeah, I get the impression MGTOWers think all women are toxic. But some of them can add a lot to your life. Just don't make them the center of your universe. It's not really that hard.
 

badboyjmm

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Welcome back BBjm.

I’m in a long dry spell, but I’m in monk mode, so I’m totally cool with it.

I’m losing weight, exercising, and reading (book-maxing).

So I’m MGTOW or perhaps Volcel at the moment.
I'm glad to be back !

Absolutely one way of doing it. I ended up focusing a lot of myself in the past year or so. I went from 269.5 pounds to 209 then bulk up to 230-235.

Got better in sports and its been good with the ladies, sometimes I don't even approach them cause im too busy having a blast with my friends at the bar !
 

badboyjmm

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Yeah, I get the impression MGTOWers think all women are toxic. But some of them can add a lot to your life. Just don't make them the center of your universe. It's not really that hard.
I mean there's different level of MGTOW in my opinion. Like I consider myself one, but I value women. They can definitely add a lot. I just don't want to commit to them via marriage because the ramifications of that going bad are not worth the risk in my opinion.
 

zekko

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I mean there's different level of MGTOW in my opinion. Like I consider myself one, but I value women. They can definitely add a lot. I just don't want to commit to them via marriage because the ramifications of that going bad are not worth the risk in my opinion.
I agree there are different levels of MGTOW. When I first heard of MGTOW, my impression was that they were guys who had failed with women, so they decided to withdraw from dealing with them other than on a casual level. I've later been told this is not so, and there are a lot of different ways to define MGTOW.

I also wouldn't commit to marriage in the present society, but I don't consider myself MGTOW. I don't attach labels to myself easily though.
I don't mind being exclusive with a girl, as long as I think she's worth it. Most people I know are coupled up anyway.
 

Serenity

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Yeah, I get the impression MGTOWers think all women are toxic. But some of them can add a lot to your life. Just don't make them the center of your universe. It's not really that hard.
I suspect these guys previously in their life desired any woman, but then (overtly) desire no woman. Looking at the metaframe they're still stuck in black and white thinking, one side or the other. From my point of view they lack the intelligence to make a more sophisticated judgement so all women are either good or bad. I look into individual actions, attitudes and beliefs when I judge people, they simply make a caveman level judgment that female = bad.
 

thinker

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I think the basic MGTOW philosophy is good, the problem is that it is too one size fits all and focused to much on the resource extraction angle. They don't seem to look at other things like looks or confidence for example. Some are obviously hurt and are bitter when it comes to women but others seem to just believe that the risks outweigh the rewards when it comes to women and commitment. From what I have read on some of their social media some actually interact quit a bit with women and will even keep women that bring value around for a while but again will not commit to any women. I also think they do bring some important issues into the public debate that the MRAs have been pushing for years but have gotten no traction with and the MGTOWs are more effective doing this. The incels on the other hand have black pilled themselves, this leads to them not even trying which leads to them getting the same results which re enforces their beliefs. Do I think that incels can turn themselves into chads? No, but unless you are as messed up as Stephen Hawking you can get something better than the incel life.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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These two terms get conflated but are actually vastly different.

MGTOW: A guy who puts himself first. He is constantly involved in self improvement. He is not defined by the validation of women. Pursuing women is an afterthought. They are the extra curricular he does when he is taking a break from his own hobbies. His life goal is to become self actualized. He avoids marriage because he knows that it will stop his self actualization.

Incel: A guy who is not self improving. He desperately wants the validation of women but is to afraid to even try. These men shut themselves away from the world. They delve into escapism and fantasy games. They are often out of shape.

I am not getting pusy at the moment ( quality pusy) but I would not consider myself an incel. Last decent looking girl I smashed was June. I smashed a very low quality single mom a few months ago but she doesn't count. I am still focusing on self improvement. I have picked up hobbies that I always wanted to do but I have been to afraid to try. It is scary getting out of your comfort zone. I am getting in the best shape I have ever been. Most importantly, I am still "shooting my shot" when the chance presents itself. I am a MGTOW. Incels do not self improve, nor do they "shot their shot". If you don't try at all then you will never get anything. I am in a drought but droughts do not last forever. Its feast or famine for most men. The key is to keep focusing on living a great life during the famine.
I live a mgtow lifestyle without any such identification with any titles.

As for drought, it catches the best of us unless crushing low hanging fruit. The mentality has sort of switched for me. If you look at how much goes into creating sperm, how little it is valued in society nor masculinity.

The truth being, a significant portion of women arent worthy. The 10yrs +/- of pickup, i can count on a hand who offered any value beyond a good lay. None of which I'd marry nor cohabitation with.

Today, most women are parasitic, prone to getting fat, building a nest as SMV decays, genocide of babies, incapable of thinking freely, clings to victimhood and entirely irresponsible. I don't care for nor like most women or people for that matter.If not for my blasted sex drive, i would not engage nor approach women. Much of the political **** show is prevalent in women. Girl power till it fails followed by victimhood on tren.


It just do happens to be in my nature. I wont marry nor cohabitation. There's only so many approaches a man can make before seeing female nature as it is not how they tell you it is.


As for famine, note how few are worthy. Allocate the testosterone to conquering worlds ,bbiz, purpose, get deezed, etc.

Rest assured, the parasitic nature of women will be waiting once you conquer worlds.

Just remember, you can't get her ******* or throat pregnant. I tried lulz
 

corrector

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These two terms get conflated but are actually vastly different.

MGTOW: A guy who puts himself first. He is constantly involved in self improvement. He is not defined by the validation of women. Pursuing women is an afterthought. They are the extra curricular he does when he is taking a break from his own hobbies. His life goal is to become self actualized. He avoids marriage because he knows that it will stop his self actualization.
Why do you differentiate that meaning to a red-pill Don Juan here? Wasn't there a contrast before between Don Juans and PUAs? I always thought some values of "Don Juan" is just the same as a MGTOW if you look at it. Also are you talking about monk-mode MGTOW or MGTOW - with casual sex and visiting prostitutes as there is a spectrum even with that.

Pandora said:
Incel: A guy who is not self improving. He desperately wants the validation of women but is to afraid to even try. These men shut themselves away from the world. They delve into escapism and fantasy games. They are often out of shape.
You mean GYM-maxing, LOOKS-maxing or xyz-maxing. These are incel-speak meaning that people even have definitions for people who have tried in a certain area and failed, and the definitions go on and on where an issue or aspect is blamed for incelness. How would you differentiate an incel from monk-mode MGTOW? I think maybe you should go on a wiki-incel site and familiarize yourself with the various terms and vocabulary rather than potentially making stuff up yourself that is not informed.
 
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