Mature Forum Town Hall Meeting

[Survivor]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I called this meeting for a few reasons. First of all, thanks to all of you for making the first four months of the Mature Man Forum a runaway hit. As one of the most tenured posters here, I truly appreciate consistent quality dialouge produced on this forum. Its almost reminiscent of the "Golden Era" of 1999-2000.....almost.

Anyway, as the moderator, one of the great things I've seen is that we've been attracting alot of older newbies lately. I'd like to hear from some of the older newbies as to why you chose to post here as opposed to the other forums. And also, tell me why you think this "mature" forum may be better for you to seek dialouge from than the main forum.....

....which segways into another issue. Which is, IMO, the content quality of the main forum has suffered. Older guys with better dialouge and more real life experience don't frequent the main forum as much, so that source of quality advice is being sapped away from the guys that need it the most; newbies under age 25. I had originally wanted this new forum to bring new quality to the site, not transfer quality from one forum to another, which may be the case now.

To help out, I've been monitoring all the discussions here and moving those threads I did'nt think fit into what we're trying to do here. For example, discussions about how to get a girl's phone number do not belong the Mature Man Forum, no matter how old you claim to be. What makes moving threads difficult is determining the context of what being discussed and deciding whether or not a topic is "mature" or not. One would think its common sense but its more subjective than that. An example of this is "eye contact game" by Player Supreme. Its an excellent thread, but does it belong in Tips? Does it belong in the Main forum? Its an attraction/seduction-based discussion, so it can actually fit into alot of places on this site. I eventually decided to keep it here because I consider "eye contact game" an "advanced" topic as compared to whats on the main forum. It was my original intention for the Mature forum to also be a getaway for those so-called "advanced DJs, and PUAs" being that this forum was as close to a "Masters-only" forum as Sosuave's ever going to get. "eye contact game" would help in that cause.

So to recap, lets answer these questions:

1. What is bringing older newbies here and how can we help them deveop in a manner that is specific to their needs as older men?

2. I'm considering getting real strict concerning some of the forum topics, mainly topics dealing with seduction and attraction. I believe these are universal topics with no age parameters, therefore technically not belonging here. However, if we want to be inclusive of "advanced" players and PUAs, I think we should include more "advanced DJ" topics. It'll provide some balance and keep this forum from getting too soft. Heck I'm married, and even I get sick of all these marriage threads. What do you think?

3. In your opinion, what other topics do you think should be allowed? What should not be allowed?


I'll sticky this for a week. Discuss!

 

[WestCoaster]

Response

I post here because the main board has gone terribly south, though it's improved much from its low point of earlier this summer.

When a 15-year old put up a long diatribe on the evils of masturbation, that was it for me. I was truly amazed that was not deleted or moved.

Which brings me to this: The other board being wrought with 15-19 year olds either whining, wondering how to get a date to the prom, or worse, instructing guys who have been through many experiences in life in how to live and making sweeping generalizations that one knows as much at 18 as he does at 30 and so forth -- luckily that person came clean.

There's a high school board -- which is actually really good for that age bracket -- and they should use it.

Also, pictures of conquests or pseudo-conquests (I'm not buying it; a lot of liars on the main board) do little good.

Field reports are good; I don't care about conquest reports.

And here's the biggie: The complete ignorance of what DJism is about as in being suave and not letting life's worries -- or women -- get you all worked up. Nicholas Hill's gf sleeps around on him and he's actually wondering if he should keep her? WTF?! And others saying beat up the guy or push her around ... how is that being cool and being a DJ?

The Mature Man board and sometimes Anything Else is enough for me. The main board I'll look at but rarely post. I can walk down fraternity row if I want to hear that banter.

 

[Falcon Eye]

Life experience

I come to this board because, as a forty something guy, I want to talk to and hear from people who have life experience. I come here to share experiences and gain insight into life, to talk to people who have lived, who have kids, who are in to career building and personal development, who have a mortgage and other responsibilities; generally people who I can relate to. I cannot take seriously a person in their early twenties or late teens chimming in on a thread giving advise to a person fifteen years his senior when the kids biggest problem is trying to figure out if "she likes me".

There are a number of threads that have shown up in the mature man forum that I feel should have been moved to the main forum but that's up to the moderators to decide. Generally, though, the community that currently posts in the mature man forum do post material that should be left in this forum, because if the material is moved to main forum, it generally won't receive replies that do it justice.

I think it will work best if the high school students post in that forum, the late teen and early twenties post in the main forum, and the mature men post in the mature men forum. Otherwise, you have people with different life experiences and points of reference imparting words of wisdom to each other. That's not bad when a mature man is giving advise to a younger peson, but when a twenty year old is passing on words of wisdom to a forty year old, it gets a bit ridiculous. I don't care how mature a twenty year old thinks he or she is, they really do not have the life experience necessary to pass on advise in the mature man forum. That's just my personal opinion.

Maybe the aswer is some mature men should post occasionally in the main forum. That may help, but at times the main board is just littered with things that are ridiculous. If some of these young guys actually took more time to read the material that is available on the site rather than post, especially early on, things may improve a hell of a lot. Quality is better than quantity, I think the mature man forum bears that out. There's enough good reading on this site to keep people occupied and interested for weeks. It's obvious that some people either don't read it or don't head it.

Finally, the mature man forum was a hell of a good move for sosuave.com to make. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that I would have moved on by now.

 

[Dirtheart]

I agree with Westcoaster. I'm very dubious about a lot of posters on the main board and get the idea a lot of them are more concerned with boosting their ego and image among fellow posters rather than offering help. And yes, I'm quite certain there are a lot of liars stuck in their fantasy world.

I also agree that the principles of DJing are being overlooked. A lot of people on the main board just want a quick tip to help them get laid and others just seem like bitter misogynists.

The thing I like about the Mature Man forum is that you can ask serious questions about relationships and get the voice of reason and experience, without having a load of "grow some balls" or "all women are hos" replies. And as Falcon Eye said, it's good to be able to speak to people with some life experience. I like to hear from people who have been in situations I can relate to and learn from how they succeeded or even how they messed up.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I'm with WestCoaster on this.

I think the reason Mature Man forum has been so successful is because it's designed for a specific age group, something the general forum is not.

You could say the same about the high school forum. I took a quick look at it earlier, and much to my surprise, I saw that it had much better discussions going on then the main board. (I mean take a look at this thread: http://sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15076 )

Personally, I think sosuave.com would be better off with having 3 main forums for the diff age groups:

High School Forum (ages 15-19)
College/University Forum (ages 20-24)
The Mature Man Forum (25+)

And scrap the main board.

That way every age group has a forum in which they can discuss the scenarios and problems that are suitable to their age, and you don't have one-forum-fits-all where 18 year olds give 40 year olds advice like Westcoaster said.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by MindOverMatter

I think the reason Mature Man forum has been so successful is because it's designed for a specific age group, something the general forum is not.
...
Personally, I think sosuave.com would be better off with having 3 main forums for the diff age groups:

High School Forum (ages 15-19)
College/University Forum (ages 20-24)
The Mature Man Forum (25+)

I too, shall jump on the WestCoaster Bandwagon! And also agree with MindOverMatter about the "Age Appropriate" boards. I think that's a great idea. Other postings could be left for the "Anything Else" board.

I do think that Player's splendid essay on eye contact belongs in the Tips section. Tips are for all ages & situations, reguardless of age. Each DJ should be able to judge whether or not the tip will assist him in his situation.

As for the forum getting "too soft" or a topic covered ad nausum like marriage...then make a "sticky" for it, like in the Health secton with bulking and cutting. "Before you think about marriage...consider THIS" and list all the things to think about before you take the plunge.

 

[Good_ol_boy]

To be honest, I had been hoping that the "mature" forum would be aimed a little higher. The twenty somethings, and even the thirty somethings can go to the clubs etc. When I was in my twenties and thirties there wasn't much of a problem. The problems start when you hit the mid forties and up. Go to the clubs and you are seen as the "dirty old man" hitting on the young girls. So where to meet women "of a certain age" is only one of the things to be discussed in a "mature" forum

 

[GirlCrazy]

Older guys with better dialouge and more real life experience don't frequent the main forum as much, so that source of quality advice is being sapped away from the guys that need it the most

These young bucks on the main board just don't listen. If I knew at 20 what I know now about women, holy cow. How do you impart that knowledge to them?

I agree the main board should be scrapped. You'll never get "universal wisdom" with such a massive age range. Band it into age groups as MindOverMatter suggested.

Everyone here so far is dead on. I for one find it hard to take advice on foreplay from a kid that's not old enough to date my daughter. This is some great discussion so far.

1. What is bringing older newbies here and how can we help them deveop in a manner that is specific to their needs as older men?

Older men still have plenty to learn. Hopefully most of the men in the mature forum are past the basic stages, so our needs are different. Maybe we're not all masters, but we sure as hell have been around the block a couple (hundred) times.

There are some younger masters on the main board, and we would be fools for not learning from them, but mostly you just have the blind leading the blind, so we come here seeking those we can relate to.

Our specific needs, as I see them, are mainly just keeping out the background noise and staying focused on issues specific to older men.

How about some stickied forum guidelines and an older man's FAQ?

2. I'm considering getting real strict concerning some of the forum topics, mainly topics dealing with seduction and attraction. I believe these are universal topics with no age parameters, therefore technically not belonging here. However, if we want to be inclusive of "advanced" players and PUAs, I think we should include more "advanced DJ" topics. It'll provide some balance and keep this forum from getting too soft. Heck I'm married, and even I get sick of all these marriage threads. What do you think?

Hopefully a mature men's forum would need less moderation, not more.

Some of the redundant threads (like the endless marriage debates) should just be moved to a FAQ.

3. In your opinion, what other topics do you think should be allowed? What should not be allowed?

IMO anything related to how older men deal with and relate to women should be fair game. Again IMO this forum is pretty much golden the way it is, and any micro-management could risk screwing it up.

What about lifting the bad language filter? I promise I won't tell my mom that I'm looking at bad words.

 

[GirlCrazy]

To be honest, I had been hoping that the "mature" forum would be aimed a little higher.

Me too.

Maybe subject lines should be prefixed with "30+" or "40+" ?

When a 15-year old put up a long diatribe on the evils of masturbation, that was it for me. I was truly amazed that was not deleted or moved.

Being 15 and masturbating is like being 15 and handed the keys to a mercedes SL 600 roadster. You not only don't appreciate what you have, but you're a danger to yourself and others out on the road.

I come here to share experiences and gain insight into life, to talk to people who have lived, who have kids, who are in to career building and personal development, who have a mortgage and other responsibilities;

...which is why I think the forum should be less restricted on subject matter.

We aren't focused on getting laid every minute of the day like we were in our 20's. To me, DJ'ism is just one area of my personal development as a whole. And these areas relate to each other. Those of us here that are serious about our development will be more successful in life. Let's see some topics about how you landed that million dollar account by using kino on an 80 year old woman!

The kids don't understand the path to being a DJ is really just the path to being a man, and all of us have room for improvement in all areas of our lives.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

I'm digging everything that has been said so far...

BUT...

There is pretty much one fundemental reason that attracts a man/boy to this site. Whether you got here because your gf of 4 years slept with your best friend, or you've never had a date in your life, or you've always wanted to score with women that you thought were out of your league - we were all lead to this site for the fundemental goal of understanding women better and to learn and understand from our past mistakes.

I personally chose to post on this forum more frequently than the others because I feel I can receive better opinions from gentlemen that I can closely relate to.

Dating Divorced Women
Dating Women With Kids
Marriage
Heck...even stock and trading tips could go on this forum.

With all this obvious stuff said, I may even go far enough to say that maybe the DJ Discussion Forum should completely detach itself according to an age demographic.

I know it could be a hard thing to police/moderate the 'true' age of a person posting on a 25 and older forum, but, imagine if there were entire DJ boards dedicated to ages 13-19, 20-24, and 25+

Imagine a 25+ Forum that had individual sections like Seduction Tips, Working Out, Main Forum, Wingman, Anything Else, etc.

Maybe oneday I can get workout advice from another late twenties DJ who's workout routiene can fit my 40 hour per week work schedule. Maybe one day I can get stock trading tips from a 40 year old DJ who's been there and done that. Or, maybe I can get seduction advice without the opinion of a 14 year old High School freshman who's just finished masturbating to Paris Hilton videos (ok ok...i'm sure that last one isn't just directed to 14 year olds..haha!)

Mature men have different needs, different advice, and a different outlook of life compared to the kiddies on this site who registered 2 months ago and have over 4 thousand posts just to have 'Master DJ status'..bleh...


Maybe its time to seriously think about splitting this entire site up by an age demographic.

 

[Survivor]

Great feedback. This is some useful info.

I like the idea of marriage sticky. I might start work on it when I have time. Thanks WaterTiger...

Now about scrapping the main forum... that's a HUGE suggestion that could change the landscape of this site completely. To do such a thing would mean to adopt the philosophy that males at different age groups have nothing in common when it comes to dealing with women and girls. I don't necessarily feel that's true, plus I don't think that's something that Allen would want to adopt.

Relationships with women change with age. Attraction, however, transcends age. Thus, the main board may have to stay.

I also want to stay away from having any kind of "Bible" or "FAQ" for supposedly "mature" men. We're grown ups here and shouldn't be dependant on "rules" at this point to figure out how to deal with females. I may allow stickies for redundant topics like marriage but not all of them. Stickies (like this one) do clutter the board thus I only sticky when I feel the information is pertinent to maintaining quality on the forum.

Any more comments?

 

[Chrispy]

The idea of scrapping the main board is a good idea, as it should generally encourage posts from people in the early 20's. However, it will create a new set of problems...like poor posters contaminating the mature forum!!

I think the main board is suffering because of its very own success: too many posts, and difficulty in separating the good from the bad.
Conversely, mature forum has quality posts that stick with the topic so it is easier to follow.

Anyway,
1) Don't do anything different for MF - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2) Another area for Advanced S&A techniques? Too much maintenance..maybe move to tips forum?

 

[I_A_M_I]

Questionzzz

I'm new on dis'ere block so please, allow me to first yell out to all the bro.djs "p2Dp"...

To answer your questions dj Survivor:

1. Why I came here instead of the main forum? Because it said 25 and older. We expect youth to live and act like youth right? Thats why when I do go out its to locals where 25 is the absolute minimum. I read some of the replies from mature bros. and I'm not surprised"? Young sounding remarks coming from young folk. I don't like to be around it, cuz it reminds me of how clueless I was when I used to talk and act that! Immaturity speaks loudly among the humble and wise... I say let them have their site and maybe task an elder dj as a sort of counselierie to assist with the pieces of meat that may be too large for the young djs to swallow.

2&3. Do we limit/predjudize topics for each forum? I won't presume to know jack. I therefore appreciate all flavas of cake e.g. topics even with which I may have had some experience. I say keep the floor open to all ideas. No matter the seeds planted in whatever forum, the fruit will be tastier to he who eats depending upon where he hangs his hat...

Peace and Love

 

[dietzcoi]

I think we need to keep the marriage (anti-marriage) threads alive. No telling when some poor newbie sap will show up here hoping for a last minute reprieve... he will need good old Dietzcoi (as well as Westcoaster and others) to save him... if he has to search for old threads instead of getting my timely and sanguine advice, he may be lost.... we are talking about a man on the edge... just like a suicide prevention hotline... we can have our marriage prevention hotline... If I save one life it will be worth it!

Agree with most everything else. Don't cancel the main board, it attracts the AFCs like flies to manure. Keep this board as it is.

No matter what we do there will be trolls and idiot AFCs posting. We need to live with it to get to what we want.

Dietzcoi

 

[WestCoaster]

Hilarious!

Originally posted by dietzcoi
we are talking about a man on the edge... just like a suicide prevention hotline... we can have our marriage prevention hotline... If I save one life it will be worth it!

That quote is one of the best I've seen, what a hoot!

Well, as stated, I'm not against marriage but you sure as heck better find the right one. It was very refreshing to be around a good marriage last weekend as many of my other friends are either very disappointed, separated, going through divorces, or AFCing with a beyotch to keep the misery alive.

Considering it's the most important decision one will ever make, I'm stunned that 90 percent of men (AFCs) make this decision on a whim and because "it's time." Amazing.

* What I am semi-against is co-habitating/living together. What a complete waste of time. Ever guy I knew who took the test drive is now miserably married. You have the ball and chain, but aren't committed and can't date others. Very strange arrangement. After a year with a gal if you don't know if you want to get married, you don't want to get married.

 

[GirlCrazy]

* What I am semi-against is co-habitating/living together. What a complete waste of time. Ever guy I knew who took the test drive is now miserably married. You have the ball and chain, but aren't committed and can't date others. Very strange arrangement. After a year with a gal if you don't know if you want to get married, you don't want to get married.

You didn't mention the financial aspects, which is a big reason couples live together first.

Before I got married I bought a nice house in my own name. The day I signed on the X, the house became community property. The test drive was important to me, because I had alot to lose financially.

Ah jeez, even the stickied town hall meeting thread degrades into a marriage debate LOL.

 

[CobraGT]

Marriage Preparation Website

Check this out. Living Together Before Marriage. The previous letter on this topic explains this guys reasoning. Check out the rest of the website Q&A stuff too.

If you want to keep mongoose01's thread alive post your response here...what do you guys think about marriage?!.

CobraGT

 

[WestCoaster]

Lying rears its ugly head on ...

... the Anything Else board.

I called them out on it. People were bragging about how many languages they spoke and most people there spoke a minimum of five languages FLUENTLY -- f'n amazing!

My dad is a retired foreign language prof and he spoke three fluently, but said it's rare most people get to two languages. One guy on the board (Capi Crimini or whatever his name is) said he spoke 10 -- 10! -- including that unknown language French Spanish.

There is no f-cking language or dialect called French Spanish and I can f'n prove it!

Guys are saying they speak Latin, Hebrew, Greek fluently ... and check their tags and their suburb boys from Terre Haute or somewhere. Jesus f'n C ... do they REALLY think we're buying it?!

Saying hello in a language is not knowing the language. These guys have like 600 posts and say they're fluent. Uh no, if you were fluent in five languages you would not be on this board -- you wouldn't have time.

I'm just amazed at the lying that goes on here, from the number of women guys have slept with, to the number of phone numbers they get, to the careers they have (that was a classic!), and now the languages they know.

So according to the DJ demographic on this board, most guys have:

1. Slept with 100 women
2. Got phone numbers from 20 women last week
3. Speak five languages fluently, some 10!
4. Have a six-figure job designing the next great super computer
5. Are engaged to a supermodel, but are holding out for someone better.

It's amazing. Also amazing is the number of guys who say they're in film school and are 100 percent sure they're going to be the next great producer in America.

God, where do these schmucks come from?!!!

 

[Bungo Pony]

Wow, so it's come to this?

I don't pop in here much anymore since the entire board has gone downhill. This seems to be one of the more decent forums on here.

1. What is bringing older newbies here and how can we help them deveop in a manner that is specific to their needs as older men?

As one person above stated, it says "25 and over" for an age limit. Older newbies (what a horrible way to describe that) assume that the main board is for stupid horny teenagers. Who wants advice from a bunch of guys who are concerned with their complexion more than their personality?

As far as helping them develope, there's not much difference between a single man and a single teenager as far as pickups, number close, dating, etc. The Mature Man has quite a few advantages over teenagers: they (should) have a decent job, they're old enough to buy alcohol, they most likely will have a car and a decent place to live. The methods that have been mentioned on this site will work for either a teenager, or a mature adult. Unfortunately, the true meaning of "Don Juan" has been lost through the waves of people who log on here. Everyone seems to have forgotten the most important aspects such as confidence, self-respect, and self-reliance. These things make a solid foundation for a successful man. This, in my opinion, should be the focus of this forum.

3. In your opinion, what other topics do you think should be allowed? What should not be allowed?

That's a very touchy subject. It's not necessarily the initial posts that are the issue, it's mostly the responses. If the responses are 5hit, it'll be like a disease and spread (much like it did in the main forum). I remember one particular post about a year ago where someone was asking how to get a girl, and others were suggesting using romance (ie write her a sweet letter, buying her some chocolate, etc). I've been with my partner for damn near two years (we're married now), and I've only bought her one flower (we were already living together). There was no reason behind it. She wasn't pissed off at me. It wasn't her birthday. I just picked it up because I wanted to.

Some people here have suggested eliminating the main forum. Doing this would cause everyone who posts there to move somewhere else. The main forum has been contaminated. It's a place where we can try and keep the contamination.

 

[WestCoaster]

Baseball ... funny stuff

I went to Crazy Kid's site that you linked and read part of your journal. I was laughing my a$$ off on your family reunion post when you were talking to that one gal. You had some quick one-liners.

Sheesh, at 17 I was so self-conscious it wasn't even funny. You got some nice game for a youngster. Keep up the good work.