Martial Arts Training.....

[speed dawg]

Thinking really hard about taking up some type of martial arts. Karate seems to jump out at me, but another poster mentioned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu a while back in a post. Problem is, I have a surgically repaired herniated disc in my lower back, and also have a bad knee (loose bone fragment).

Is it possible for me to succeed at these types of training with the constraints?

Also, do you routinely get your ass kicked in there? Not sure I want to go to work with black eyes and stuff. Bruises and soreness I don't mind, but really don't need broken bones. I always heard that they'll knock the attitude right out of you in karate class.

 

[SharinganUser]

Thinking really hard about taking up some type of martial arts. Karate seems to jump out at me, but another poster mentioned Brazilian Jiu Jitsu a while back in a post. Problem is, I have a surgically repaired herniated disc in my lower back, and also have a bad knee (loose bone fragment).

Is it possible for me to succeed at these types of training with the constraints?

Also, do you routinely get your ass kicked in there? Not sure I want to go to work with black eyes and stuff. Bruises and soreness I don't mind, but really don't need broken bones. I always heard that they'll knock the attitude right out of you in karate class.

It depends on the class. Unless your instructor is an idiot, you don't need to worry about broken bones. Since you have a bad knee and herniated disc, I think you should consider taking up boxing. It's a great workout and it's far more effective than most martial arts.

 

[Gaucho]

Kerpal is right IMO. Boxing will probably the best, given it is a full body workout and it will probably help strengthen your back. You will also get little to no knee impact.

Boxing is probably the best for a street brawl too, given they are so quick and generally close quarters. You aren't going to use a triangle in a street fight, or you will probably be kicked in the head by somebody else while you take the time to apply it etc. Kerpal is also right in that they are the major 4 that have prooven to be effective (some people also talk about 'dutch kickboxing' which takes hand strikes more like a boxer but legs etc like muay thai, but is really just like a mix you can learn yourself if you learn both muay thai and boxing).

 

[Bible_Belt]

It's all good advice here.

If you're worried about getting hurt, then don't train with idiots. Probably the dumbest people in martial arts right now are the unsupervised mma retards, typically 19-22 and training in a garage, practicing the moves they saw on Youtube. University recreation centers and open mats are only a step better. There must be supervision from a legitimate and respected instructor, or else people get hurt from their own ignorance.

A martial arts school is a business, and it's bad business to let one or two bullies chase away paying customers, a lot of whom tend to be a few years older and softer than your typical fighter. A good school won't allow bullying...unless maybe it's against a bully. You want to train with people who can beat you up, but won't just because they can. It sounds simple, but it's not, and relates to the long history of tradition in martial arts.

 

[TheMale]

muay thai will be to hard using you knees to hit something hard like head
wrestling you need your knees to push people or stay on the ground while the other trying to push you
boxing could be perfect for you
and brazilian ju jitsu i don't know so much about it

i would say do kung fu ...
it's all about energy and movement that you can do even with a bad knee or back problem
i personally do Wing Chun
if you saw the movie Ip Man that's wing chun ...
it was invented by a women to help a women so basically it a martial art for 'weak' people (by weak i mean not too strong) vs. really strong people (it was to defeat a shaolin master)
like everyone said if your in a class where people get your ass kicked then it's not the place where you wanna be with *******

bible_belt : i got your point but you need to balance
i have friends that doing muay thai and they coming back home with black eyes and blood ...
in the other hand i have friends that fighting in their martial art school but they don't get kicked so bad just a little bit to show that they can loose or to have a hit and see how they could block that

 

[squirrels]

All martial arts are not created equal...they each have their own "niche". When you say, "I want to study martial arts", though, you have to have an idea of the kind of experience you want, what you want to accomplish, and what kinds of things you're expecting and looking forward to from the experience.


-Do you want to learn how to defend yourself in a schoolyard brawl?
-Do you want to learn how to defend yourself in a street fight/lethal situation?
-Do you want to compete?
-Do you want to learn to hit people, to wrestle, or just to suppress threats?
-Do you want to be fitter?
-Do you want to learn an "art"?
-Do you want clearly structured goals and tests/accomplishments?
-Do you want to be more disciplined?

Don't say "all of the above" or I'll kick your arse myself.

As far as your physical limitations go, only you know how bad they are. Once you find a school/gym, you may want to have a serious talk with the instructor (and possibly your doctor) how they could affect your training before you sign up.

I know guys who have had bad conditions in their knees and back who have gotten WORSE from martial arts and some who have gotten BETTER. But it depends on your specifics.

 

[Marvin Gaye]

Tai Chi

Bagua Zhang

Tai Chi

Northern Shaolin Kung Fu

Hung Gar

All of these style are Chinese Martial arts, there are tons of 'em out there, but I think you'd be interested in Tai Chi because of your condition. It's similar to Yoga while simultaneously being a martial art.

"Tai Chi is less about strength, and more about alignment, body structure, breathe, and visualization."

 

[speed dawg]

-Do you want to learn how to defend yourself in a schoolyard brawl? No.
-Do you want to learn how to defend yourself in a street fight/lethal situation? Yes, assuming I have no gun.
-Do you want to compete? No.
-Do you want to learn to hit people, to wrestle, or just to suppress threats? Supress threats.
-Do you want to be fitter? No.
-Do you want to learn an "art"? Sure.
-Do you want clearly structured goals and tests/accomplishments? Sure.
-Do you want to be more disciplined? Sure

Other things I'm looking for is to exercise and stay in shape/flexible condition, which I am now, but want to put it to use.

 

[BlackMack177]

As a martial artist myself I think it is pefectly possible for you too train with your limitations. But only go as far as your body can go. Your instructor and classmates can take that into account, but it's only you who know's your limits

One of the things we preach most in my MMA school isn't only pushing yourself beyond the limits, but also being smart and not going too far. Don't be afraid to tell a guy to ease up if you feel like your back or knee is going to give out. It's better to be able to train another day and take a tap instead of being a hardass and sitting on the couch for weeks cuz you thought you could resist and arm bar.

Just find a school that fits what you are looking for. and Don't train with idiots unsupervised because that's a good way to get hurt

 

[Sparky]

I'd go for Karate and boxing. The Karate will sharpen the boxing a bit.
Only problem is Karate is often taught very badly which leads to all these misconceptions that fly around about it. The Karate ought to be going in depth about the application at street level of the moves you're doing. If it doesn't then don't bother with it.

Failing that, Muay Thai and boxing. If you're nutty enough and don't mind your shins being whacked.

But take boxing with something more classical as a compliment is what I'm saying. Excellent combination for self defence. Bam.....and they're out.
There's nothing quite like hitting someone very very hard in the sweet spot for ending a fight fast. And for this reason I would say for the street concentrate on striking arts to get it over with quick.

 

[Sparky]

Problem is, I have a surgically repaired herniated disc in my lower back, and also have a bad knee (loose bone fragment).

Any good instructor should make you allowances for this and allow you to adjust accordingly. I would say that avoid anything which requires you to kick high because of this disc in your back. Karate and Muay Thai are ok for this, although you DO see them kicking high a lot of the main work is done waist level or below.

If you are concerned about this bad knee, which I would think about carefully then do boxing and avoid the kicking altogether.

Edit - I really do think you're not going to be able to anything involving grappling or ground work simply because of your back.

 

[speed dawg]

You got it right, Sparky, I'm really not interested in a whole lot of ground grappling. Karate is what I'm drawn towards.

 

[SharinganUser]

You got it right, Sparky, I'm really not interested in a whole lot of ground grappling. Karate is what I'm drawn towards.

Sounds good. If you can find a kyokushin karate dojo, you will be all set.

 

[SharinganUser]

I don't think you're allowed to punch to the face in Kyokushin. Outside of a Kyokushin dojo, people are going to punch you in the face. In fact that's most likely the very first thing they'll do. So I'm not sure if that's such a good idea unless you want to compete in Kyokushin competitions.

Kyokushin is one of the best martial arts styles out there. GSP is a Kyokushin fighter. The training is intense and the style is renown for doing what they call the 100 man kumite, which is where you spar against 100 men in a row for 1.5 to 2 minutes each. I highly suggest looking it up.

 

[Huffman]

I do traditional Goju Ryu karate and we have many punches to the face... I don't have a comprehensive comparison between karate styles for you, but since Kyokushin is hard contact, I would guess they train close range fighting - which naturally involves hooks and all that stuff. I mean how are you going to KO someone without going for the head? This is considering that kicks to the head are very risky to try in a real fight. Goju is quite close range, Shotokan is rather long range and sometimes a little flashy, I think.

BUT! Not so important is the style, more important is the teacher. Even with light-contact karate that many consider to be inferior, you will be one hell of a fighter if your trainer teaches you how to understand and use it. Karate is much more than what you see in those "tag game" tournaments. So look at what's available in your area, take some tryout classes and if you think "damn that's cool" then do it.

My general impression though is that most traditional karate or kungfu schools have very mature and respectful students. In fact you see many "AFCs" go there, in order to learn self-respect... and I've been to a couple of MMA and BJJ classes where there's a lot more hotshots who will accidentially break your nose and not even apologize. It's probably just the huge popularity of MMA at the moment. Again, do what you think fits your style, and go where there are people you want to associate with.

Edit: just saw that Kyokushin TOURNAMENTS don't allow the head punches, but the guys still train them. Karate tournaments are quite controversial. Train some art, doesn't really matter which, for 1-2 years and then you will know what kind of fighter you want to be.

 

[CrashOverRide]

Here is a real world example of how boxing proved effective in a street scenario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GZogjsxGgI

 

[SharinganUser]

and I've been to a couple of MMA and BJJ classes where there's a lot more hotshots who will accidentially break your nose and not even apologize.

So you've been to a couple of classes and that means you can make an accurate judgement on the styles???

 

[Gaucho]

GSP may have a Karate background, but he barely applies it. He is much more of a freestyle wrestler and his stand-up is a real mix of styles.

Lyoto Machida employes that Karate style a lot more in his fighting. Which is also what got him caught against Shogun in the rematch, he backs off with his chin in the air which is always going to ensure you are knocked cold at some stage no matter how good you are.

 

[Huffman]

So you've been to a couple of classes and that means you can make an accurate judgement on the styles???

Bro had you read my post at all then you would have seen that I'm exactly NOT doing this. I'm not talking MMA down at all, even though it's not to my personal taste. Anybody who is honest will have to recognize that MMA produces tough fighters. Can we please not have the silly "best martial art" discussion that you find on 9000 youtube videos?

I however meet many people in their 20s who just started MMA and are aggressive ****s. I don't need to train 10 years to notice this. People who have some years of training behind them are usually pretty chill. On contrary I notice that traditional Karate clubs have people who are much nicer and more relaxed than you would usually think of fighters. Yes there's alot of grandpas. If you do have that much more experience, then surely you would agree?

Different people are drawn to different styles, and no.1 criterium for me is the people I'll be training with. So, to repeat the essence of my earlier post, check clubs out, not only karate, and see which one in YOUR town you like most.

 

[SharinganUser]

Bro had you read my post at all then you would have seen that I'm exactly NOT doing this. I'm not talking MMA down at all, even though it's not to my personal taste. Anybody who is honest will have to recognize that MMA produces tough fighters. Can we please not have the silly "best martial art" discussion that you find on 9000 youtube videos?

I however meet many people in their 20s who just started MMA and are aggressive ****s. I don't need to train 10 years to notice this. People who have some years of training behind them are usually pretty chill. On contrary I notice that traditional Karate clubs have people who are much nicer and more relaxed than you would usually think of fighters. Yes there's alot of grandpas. If you do have that much more experience, then surely you would agree?

Different people are drawn to different styles, and no.1 criterium for me is the people I'll be training with. So, to repeat the essence of my earlier post, check clubs out, not only karate, and see which one in YOUR town you like most.

I did read your post and I am not making this a "best martial art" discussion. I am talking about your narrow view on the type of people that train in mma. I haven't found MMA people to be anymore "aggressive" than other stylists. In fact most people that train MMA don't even compete. Moreover professional fighters are less likely to fight outside the ring because of high risk of injury that would cost them their pay check.

I'd also like to add that I've met people in their early twenties who practiced traditional styles and thought they were hot ****, but that is more a reflection on their attitude than their style of martial arts.

People who have some years of training behind them are usually pretty chill.

Agree'd and this includes people who train in MMA/BJJ.