Manipulation or interest?

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by Ebach
Damn smartass girl, if you know so much why did you make this thread? You obviously know what it's all about, so make a ****ing decision. You obviously don't know what you want even though you preach and philosophise about what life is all about. STOP! Give your man a blow job and see if that changes anything.

Yeah, you’re right. I can be a real smart-ass sometimes, when provoked. LOL And you’re right, I’ll be the first to admit that I have the tendency to be opinionated (isn’t everyone at this age?)however, I certainly never claimed to know everything… And I think it’s safe to say that nobody here really does, either, or we wouldn’t be here in the first place. Is anyone here omnipotent? No? I didn’t think so.

As far as I can tell, preaching and philosophizing is what this forum is all about. In fact, DJing is a philosophy of sorts, isn’t it? But I guess the problem is not that I’m preaching and philosophizing about life, is it? Apparently, the real problem is that I’m an indecisive girl trying to hash it out in this microcosm of a man’s world. I always seem to get in over my head… Guess that’s why I’m having difficulty with this most recent problem of mine.

You’re right, I came with a question because I don’t know everything. Who does? I understand very well that I’m too emotionally involved in this situation to be able to see it objectively--- That’s why I intruded upon your discussion.

 

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by JSH
So all you think this is is a sick twisted game played by boys, well go and look at the magazines that you are spoon fed from youth and drip fed till death. On how to tell if your bf is cheating and why your bf feels the way he does. I have read articles which are so patently false it makes me want to retch out my insides becasue they will end up hurting boys. You have your social networks in the toilets at lunch time. Boys are isolated and unable to discuss women other than 'yeah shes fit' because they recieve this kind of response from women and those blokes indoctrinated by them. All written by twisted femi nazis. i will end up with the mate that i as a person deserve and that mate will be everything i wish her to be.

Its your loss, not his, as he will remain the person he wants to be, while i hope you will always torture yourself as to whether you have done the right thing. Mutual loss, who can lose nything by getting someone as cynical as you out of their life.

And yes you are cyncial, maybe i am to, but i doubt it as i still have a long unsullied life to look forward to. With the benefit of these forums and this extended support group.

Your final paragraph, i agree with: Life is what you make it--- And it’s different for everyone, according to his choices. Just make certain you’re satisfied with your choices. Then, it’s all good…

Be satisfied with your choices and be strong about them, you made the choice, no one else forced you to my anything that they have done.

Just because you have been ****ed over does not mean you should help **** over other blokes. I belive there is only one word to describe you - hypocrite.



Roll with the punches and you have my condolences on your entire life.

Like I said, I committed the crime of confusing PUA’s with DJ’s. Sorry, once again.

Yes, you’re absolutely right--- Women do play many games--- Some conscious, some not. Women have to deal with female-female games from childhood onward. Little girls came be terribly nasty to each other. They play cruel psychological games, while little boys tend to throw each other to the ground, exchange a few punches, and either agree to disagree or live peacefully thereafter.

Thankfully, I grew up with older brothers and many older male cousins and had some relief from female cruelty. In fact, this is one of the main reasons I prefer male friends to female friends--- Many women are manipulative, cruel, jealous, etc. etc. etc. My female friends agree with me on this. None of my friends are this way.

I totally agree with you about venomous women’s magazines. They’re absolutely horrible. That’s why I stopped reading them long ago--- They made me want to retch, too. Most women, somewhere along the line, realize what these magazines are and either stop buying them altogether, only buy them for eye candy now and then or, even more commonly, buy them to share a good laugh with their bf’s about the utter idiocy of the articles.

I’m sorry that men are hurt by women, just as I am sorry that women are hurt by men. Many men in my life (brothers, friends) have been hurt, manipulated, and devastated by women and I hate it just as much as you do. I am no fonder of “twisted femi-nazis” than you, who ironically enough, tend to fight against their own cause.

LOL Hoping that I will torture myself for the rest of my life over this and be a miserable person is not very nice, is it? Well, I assure you that I will not be torturing myself about this much longer, and I will get through this with those who support and understand me.

I’m not worried about being miserable and alone for the rest of my life--- I know that I won’t be. And, if I’m so horrid and unlovable, then why am I loved? Don't argue with me about this. Believe whatever you want about me. It doesn’t concern me. I only asked about what this new man’s intentions towards me were so that I could make a better, more balanced decision.

Forgive me for thinking that you guys might be interested in giving me some pointers and advice and perhaps, gathering some new insight from me, too.

I’m not trying to tell you all how to live--- In fact, you seem to be doing a rather good job of it. First of all, the majority of you seem quite witty and sharp, insightful and ambitious. How else would you have found this site? I think it’s wonderful that you’ve formed a community to help support and encourage each other. I’m sorry for misunderstanding the difference between a DJ and a PUA. Can you please forgive me now?!

I’m not blaming anyone for anything, here. I’m simply trying to understand what this man wants from me and whether or not he is to be trusted. Fair? And I certainly have no intention of f***** anybody over. Where did that come from? Sadly, it seems we’re all hypocrites at one time or another in our lives.

Thanks for your condolences on my entire life---- But I don’t need them… I’m quite happy with my life, overall and will be even more so when this is over. LOL Could it be that I'm the narcissist? You all seem to think so...

Perhaps all I should have said was: HELP! HELP! HELP! , as that might have triggered a more amicable response. Then again, not likely!

 

[jakethasnake]

I think she is one of the more intelligent and level-headed females to come around in a while. She's alright in my book (but still a female!).

 

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by Austin Allegro
JSH, good post.

Amalthea, all I can say is make a decision. If you want to stay with the five year plan man, stay with him. If you decide he's not right for you, have the courage to go. You sound like you are obsessing way too much over this.

Being a DJ is not about playing games. That is called being a player and the two are not the same thing.

And by the way, the passage in Corinthians you mention is not about romantic love (eros) but about love and concern for one's neighbour (philos). The greeks have five words for love, the English only have one.

Thanks for your advice, Austin.

Yes, I’m aware of the fact that English has only one word for love, whereas Greek has five: agape, philos, eros…. ( forgive me, I don’t recall the other two). But this passage, and much of the Bible, is open to interpretation.

Anyway, this argument is pointless, as the Bible was originally written in Aramic and later interpreted into Greek. Maybe you could tell me more about the original?

I’m not trying to be a “smart-ass girl”, although I realize that I probably come across that way. Believe it or not, most people think that I’m a sweetheart (hmm, don't I have them fooled!!! LOL). I was just reacting to an inane statement against my better judgment.

Guys!!! Come ON!!! I’m not trying to preach from the Bible for Christ's Sake (pun intended!!!)!!! I was just mentioning a particular passage that I really like.

One of the best pieces of advice I received came from a guy who said that I should never back down from an argument. So, I’m just following male advice.

 

[Loke]

Girls RULE!

 

[JSH]

W_hore, (aargh) i should really be doing my IT coursework due n two months ago, final deadline tommorrow morning and examined on it next monday. And here i am retyping a long bloody post which i stupidly closed. So this will be more brusque and not as much detail. LOL My first reply was a real masterpiece, but now times rapidly running out.

Originally posted by Amalthea
Reading between the lines, it seems like we’re all basically on the same side (believe it or not). So what’s all the mud-slinging about? About respect--- I didn’t feel the need to be disrespectful until others were disrespectful to me, calling me a “biotch” without any provocation. But I was wrong for giving in to my weakness, you’re absolutely right. I should have turned the other cheek.

Ok, I am on my side and only my side, my life always comes first. Respect only goes to those for whom it is deserved.
From my skim read earlier you said your not a Christian, alright, but you seem to have been indoctrinated well.

Is the real issue here merely that I somehow had the fortune/misfortune (depends how you look at it--- I choose to view it as fortunate) of stumbling my way into this forum which, apparently, is exclusively a club for men? I wasn’t aware of this rule--- I didn’t see anything posted anywhere regarding the exclusion of women--- But it seems that an unspoken rule exists, all the same. It’s clear that many of you resent my presence on this forum and feel the need to try to intimidate me (and every other women who dares to post something) away; however, judging by other threads that contained contributions from women, it seems that there are others who do not share your view.
And that’s what it’s really all about, isn’t it? It’s about discussion and debate, sharing ideas, experiences, and info.

Why do you view it as fortunate, all that will happen is you will go away more of a cynic and wreck some blokes lives. You will treat all blokes as if they have this advice and support network and be even more jaded and drive more males to their destruction. It is not exclusively for men, but the women who post here often offer such useful advice “as tell her you love her permanently”, further reinforcing that women do not know what they want. So how the hell can anyone? I am not trying to intimidate you, if I was you should hope you have a firewall as well. Of course there are others who do not share the views. This is a DISCUSSION forum for as you say debate etc. Alright im getting bored doing this again already.
Originally I replied to the war stuff, and note blokes can keep things running at home as well. But I am not returning to my history course essay on National Efficiency.

So what, your going through hell for him, . . . whole life has been a lie.
As for my bf, this is an argument that has been addressed time and time again in this forum-- This issue of “overlap”. We both agree that most of us (thankfully) have a conscience and do not set out to intentionally hurt others, correct? But sometimes, we nevertheless end up hurting them.
Tell me, what do you think would hurt my bf more--- If I told him I was in love with smb else when I thought that it was mere infatuation and not love and broke up with him on the spot, or if I eventually got over my infatuation and stayed with him, never having told him about it so that he could remain content with me? And in which scenario would fewer/more parties be hurt?

Again I had a master answer, but ill summarise, basically fewer parties will not be hurt, either way, one bloke will be. You just want to take an easy way out . . . Far be it from me to criticise you though. Anyway love, what a word, I prefer deep infatuation.

The situation is obviously quite complex, or else there would not have been (and would not continue to be) so much debate about it. As difficult as it may be for you to believe, I do love my bf and for that reason, I do not wish to hurt him unnecessarily. Don’t you see why I’m having such difficulty figuring this out? It’s much easier to label me as a selfish manipulator than to try to come to a solution. I came to this forum with a question because, you must admit, the situation is complicated.
Furthermore, early in our relationship, my bf once told me that if he ever had an affair (whether emotional or physical), he would never tell me about it and expected the same of me. Why? Because, sometimes, it is worse. What is more selfish? To make a confession to relieve oneself of one’s guilt and suffering, or to spare the other person of unneeded pain?

apologise again for the briefness. There is a debate because you came to it with the idea that it was us causing the problem, which I believe you apologise for later. Selfish manipulator. Anyway we can not tell you the answer, that is for you to work out on your own, we can only offer advice, anyway as someone else said you already know what you are going to do. As do I know what you are going to do, I believe. Emotional affairs = bs, no such thing, everyone has multiple lynch pins for emotional stability Therefore no such thing IMO. Unneeded pain, surely it is better for you to decide it is unneeded, because it will be worse when he does find out and HE WILL.

That is why I haven’t told him--- He explicitly asked me not to. And to flesh matters out a bit further, when we first met and fell in love (or lust, as you have it), he hadn’t completely broken it off yet with his current gf, which I didn’t find out about until much later when we had already been together for quite sometime. Perhaps this is what this man was trying to do when he took an interest in me although he was already attached (of which I wasn’t aware)--- I don’t know.
It looks like, unfortunately, overlap happens sometimes--- There are grey areas in life, it would seem.
My bf’s made sacrifices, I’ve made sacrifices… We’ve been through a lot together. That’s why I’m hesitant to just throw everything we have away for some momentary infatuation. I don’t mean to victimize myself, here. I’m sorry if it came across that way, as that was not my intent.

Ok, well then break up with him as you believe you are being unfaithful. Yes there are grey areas in life. Once a cheater always a cheater . . . Momentary infatuation, anyway you will never know what could have been but you will probably end up torturing yourself. Now, my best advice is whatever path you choose, stay happy with it as otherwise you will rip yourself apart.

Immoral means, WHO THE F_UCK ...using a website to help improve your life is pretty moral. You are not setting out to hurt anyone else
Hmmmm… You’re angry, aren’t you? I apologize, my mistake. Here you’re definitely right--- It seems that I’ve mistaken the behavior of a PUA with a real DJ. I’ve confused the two--- Perhaps because the “boyfriend destroyer” technique that was discussed on this forum seems closely linked to the arsenal of a PUA. This is what I have been trying to understand: Whether this guy is just a great PUA or a real DJ.
In fact, I don’t see anything wrong with the DJ philosophy… But the PUA stuff is definitely for selfish people who leave a trail of broken hearts behind them. But since you are all supposedly DJ’s, you probably agree with me on this one, right?

Morality is all lies anyway IMO, although I understand the use they have as norms in our society. Im not angry, I was just trying to get it across. PUA, so how is this any different from the girls that destroy my friends lives, have them running little errands for the flash of a smile and the irrational idea that she might one day fall for them. I see my friends being ripped apart and they dont listen to me, that’s frustrating. And I would not want it to happen to me, but in essence, biologically there is nothing wrong with the techniques of a PUA, but that is not the type of person that I want to be. So I disagree, anyway he does not seem to have done anything wrong. Assumption here (and as you say late, they are dodgy), you are blaming him for being a PUA and putting you in this position but . . .

 

[JSH]

Of course men have the right to use technique to attract beautiful, quality women--- It just depends on the intention behind it. The DJ’s intentions seem noble enough--- It’s the PUA that seems immoral. I guess it’s the PUA’s who give DJ’s a bad name. Sorry for confusing the two. It seems that this site attracts a combination of both types although, as I now I understand, they are actually diametrically opposed. It’s very easy to confuse the two when the technique is similar.
Love - you mean deep sexual infatuation. . . . women have been indoctrinated from birth into playing games and end up hurting a . . .preaches imporvement.
If you recall, I mentioned that I have very strong feelings for him, which I dared to call “love” in an earlier post. According to you, these feelings are primitive in nature--- Purely animalistic and sexual. Yes, we agree again! I came to the same conclusion, myself. That’s what I have been telling myself for the past year--- That it’s merely passion and it will go away with time, that it’s not worth losing my current bf over. That’s why I never acted on my passions and chose not to break it off with my bf right away. I thought it would go away with time, so I waited, and waited...
If you had read my other posts attentively, you would’ve remembered that I made great efforts to forget this man I became infatuated with, including dropping out of the school where I saw him every day and going back to the States for three months. But, like I said, I couldn’t get him out of my psyche. And yes, it’s because both PUA and DJ (I don’t know which of the two techniques he’s using; the techniques seem almost identical, but the intentions quite different) WORK! I already agreed that it works--- Very well, in fact! I never said it didn’t.

Lol, intention behind it, ok I feel sorry that you believe he is trying to hurt you but he does not seem like he is and so what even if he was as long as that was what he wanted to do. Teechnique is not similar, DJ is a pretty personal interpretation (for me, being who I want to be, where I want to be, ie doing my coursework instead of chatting to some old bird on a forum but hey . . .). Its also passion, animal and base with your bf. Now iv given up judging cos im bored. Make your own mind up on what I think based on my inferences.

You accuse me of being infatuated with another when I have a bf. Well, have you ever been in love? Yes? Do you think you could force yourself NOT to be in love? It’s not a very easy task, is it? In fact, it’s impossible, isn’t it? In fact, it’s so impossible that, as you say, men have committed suicide over women. They weren’t able to “just forget”. So, yes, I’m guilty. I’ve considered suicide, too. But that’s a pretty selfish ending, isn’t it? Anyone who’s lost a loved one to suicide is aware of this. Or would my death be the best solution, after all, considering the selfish biotch I have proven myself to be?

No, I don’t think I have ever been in love, but again I don’t think I can force myself out of an infatuation, neither can most people, which is the problem with ‘oneitis’.Iv considered suicide for half my life, but im scared and lazy so I didn’t. Maybe your death would prove too be the best solution as that way you would no longer feel guilty as you would no longer exist.

Most of literature seems to support this type of ending to a woman’s unfaithfulness. According to most of world literature, the cheating biotch must die. And, since you made reference to Christianity: If Christ could forgive Mary Magdalene for being a prostitute, than why can’t we as a society forgive women for falling in love when they’re already attached?
Anyway, is this man really so innocent, himself? It’s easier to believe that I’m just a wicked, manipulative witch, isn’t it? We both played a part in this. What made him decide to seduce me when he already had a girlfriend? And why did I allow myself to be seduced? Or do we merely have our subconscious to blame? Appears to be a no-blame situation, doesn’t it? So why this double standard?

I don’t care about society because it is ****ed anyway, world literature. Lol. Christ, if he existed, wasn’t the point that he was superhuman as he was either the son of god/part of god (depending on your church), so he is capable of far greater acts than us. He seems as much a victim of his feelings(if indeed there are any) as you are, has he seduced you, from what you have said he has only done it emotionally. Anyway that is what your bf when he met you. No double standard and even if there was I would not care. J

No need to be arrogant.

You do not know me, and yes I am probably arrogant, but I also tend to post when I am stressed and tired so I hope you will forgive me.

 

[JSH]

Did I say anything about being a miserable, unhappy person in general? I guess you misunderstood me. But then, you probably know too little about me to be able to judge this, don’t you? I suppose what little information I’ve provided about my situation doesn’t give you much overall perspective, does it?
Going through a difficult period in life does not signify being a miserable wretch, in general! We all experience pain and difficulty. That’s life, isn’t it? I never claimed that pain and misery define my life. Quite the contrary, in fact.
I don’t feel that this “bloke” (oh, how quaint) ruined my life! In fact, now I am beginning to see that he perhaps enriched it. Life is what you make of it, isn’t it? We agree on this. We also agree that love enriches life. What’s the point of arguing?

Love enriches life – no such thing, sorry to be pedantic. Because arguing also enriches life . . .

you are being a bitc_h turning him down, but that just completes my picture of you...More to the point, how can you be Christian.
Whoa, you’re jumping to conclusions here! I never claimed to be Christian, nor did I ever state that I supported organized religion, in general. Since when does quoting the Bible equate being Christian? I can’t entirely escape my Christian upbringing, can I?
You’re making a great deal of assumptions, just as I have made the mistake of doing. Whatever “picture” you have formulated of me, based on this thread, is incomplete. It’s quite easy to classify and label others to make our chaotic world more understandable. But it’s quite another to try to understand them. I think that you just want to “figure me out”… It makes this sensitive topic (cheating) so much easier then, doesn’t it?

But you are obviously indoctrinated into a Christian way of thinking. You can escape anything if you try hard enough. Anyway you have to make assumptions, everyday I walk out that door assuming im not going to die, every die I assume that the sky will not open and fall on me. You can not live without assumptions, which is why people like their safe zones as in there rarely are thei assumptions false. Sensitive topic, not really, cheating is a natural part of life. It happens the whole time. And this board is for being frank on, I mean where else would you find blokes admitting they are failures at women to strangers.

If we can just label some girls “good” and others “bad”, it provides us with a feeling of order and security, however false this feeling may be. If you choose to classify things in this manner then that’s simply the way you choose to view the world: in black and white. But the world has many other variations, which, in other threads, has been dubbed “overlap”. If you wish to interpret the world this way, that’s just fine. But don’t claim to know me or what I stand for. You don’t know anything about me, in fact, except that I’m human and confused like the rest of you.
A year ago, I saw the world much as you do, now. That’s why I hated myself for being a “bad” girl (trust me on this). But time, experience and age change our views about the world. And maturing and understanding the world differently doesn’t equal becoming cynical and jaded. I’m not jaded, just more aware than I was before.
I have made no claim of being omnipotent, of knowing all the answers… And I know very well that my story is one-sided. Of course it is- The truth has many different sides. That’s why the Gospel is the same story written in four different ways by different men with different perspectives.
I’m trying to contribute to the general picture of what PUA does to people from a woman’s perspective, I guess… The DJ philosophy is different, I’ll agree. So no hard feelings, right?

I view the world in colour, everything overlaps, but if you want to look at a single problem, as in an economics model, you need to make assumptions and simplify it. I have not claimed to know you, although I do want to go to Moscow and learn Russian.
Lol, im sure I will grow more aware, but hopefully not more mature, I like my fun. Again, you are coming back to a Bible example, you have been deeply drilled with Christianity. Not that there is a problem with that. The reason blokes come here is because they no longer want to be hurt, so many will emphasise with you. No hard feelings ever. That’s why its


Roll with the punches

 

[JSH]

Like I said, I committed the crime of confusing PUA’s with DJ’s. Sorry, once again.

Yes, you’re absolutely right--- Women do play many games--- Some conscious, some not. Women have to deal with female-female games from childhood onward. Little girls came be terribly nasty to each other. They play cruel psychological games, while little boys tend to throw each other to the ground, exchange a few punches, and either agree to disagree or live peacefully thereafter.

Thankfully, I grew up with older brothers and many older male cousins and had some relief from female cruelty. In fact, this is one of the main reasons I prefer male friends to female friends--- Many women are manipulative, cruel, jealous, etc. etc. etc. My female friends agree with me on this. None of my friends are this way.

I totally agree with you about venomous women’s magazines. They’re absolutely horrible. That’s why I stopped reading them long ago--- They made me want to retch, too. Most women, somewhere along the line, realize what these magazines are and either stop buying them altogether, only buy them for eye candy now and then or, even more commonly, buy them to share a good laugh with their bf’s about the utter idiocy of the articles.

I’m sorry that men are hurt by women, just as I am sorry that women are hurt by men. Many men in my life (brothers, friends) have been hurt, manipulated, and devastated by women and I hate it just as much as you do. I am no fonder of “twisted femi-nazis” than you, who ironically enough, tend to fight against their own cause.

LOL Hoping that I will torture myself for the rest of my life over this and be a miserable person is not very nice, is it? Well, I assure you that I will not be torturing myself about this much longer, and I will get through this with those who support and understand me.

I’m not worried about being miserable and alone for the rest of my life--- I know that I won’t be. And, if I’m so horrid and unlovable, then why am I loved? Don't argue with me about this. Believe whatever you want about me. It doesn’t concern me. I only asked about what this new man’s intentions towards me were so that I could make a better, more balanced decision.

Forgive me for thinking that you guys might be interested in giving me some pointers and advice and perhaps, gathering some new insight from me, too.

I’m not trying to tell you all how to live--- In fact, you seem to be doing a rather good job of it. First of all, the majority of you seem quite witty and sharp, insightful and ambitious. How else would you have found this site? I think it’s wonderful that you’ve formed a community to help support and encourage each other. I’m sorry for misunderstanding the difference between a DJ and a PUA. Can you please forgive me now?!

Ok maybe I was a bit nasty . . . Im sorry, apologies, it was more meant in a light hearted way.

I’m not blaming anyone for anything, here. I’m simply trying to understand what this man wants from me and whether or not he is to be trusted. Fair? And I certainly have no intention of f***** anybody over. Where did that come from? Sadly, it seems we’re all hypocrites at one time or another in our lives.

Thanks for your condolences on my entire life---- But I don’t need them… I’m quite happy with my life, overall and will be even more so when this is over. LOL Could it be that I'm the narcissist? You all seem to think so...

Perhaps all I should have said was: HELP! HELP! HELP! , as that might have triggered a more amicable response. Then again, not likely!

Ok, originally It appeared as if you were blaming a support group for what he was doing to you, or you think he is trying to do. Hypocrite- what a wonderful word, surely that is the point of life, how can you judge others unless you do the same. Condolences, no idea what that was all about . . . Narcissist, is that the only long word you know , maybe you and what you refer to as a PUA are matched as you also referred to him as a narcissist.

Anyway good luck and roll with the punches.

 

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by JSH
W_hore, (aargh) i should really be doing my IT coursework due n two months ago, final deadline tommorrow morning and examined on it next monday.

Ahhh, the pleasures of youth. Tsk tsk, young man! Why do you always allow girls (and especially old birds) to distract you from accomplishing what needs to get done?

Ok, I am on my side and only my side, my life always comes first. Respect only goes to those for whom it is deserved.
From my skim read earlier you said your not a Christian, alright, but you seem to have been indoctrinated well.

I'm all for self-respect and self-fulfillment... But there is a fine line between confidence and malignant self-love. Yeah, you're right, I've been brainwashed rather thoroughly... I recently had a nightmare about sitting in the front pew with my father (no kidding!) I woke up crying...!

Why do you view it as fortunate, all that will happen is you will go away more of a cynic and wreck some blokes lives. You will treat all blokes as if they have this advice and support network and be even more jaded and drive more males to their destruction.

I choose to roll with the punches, as you say, and for that reason, I choose to view this experience in a positive light. Why? Because I have gained insight... Thanks to this discussion, I realized that I have been rather selfish and unsympathetic and have learned a great deal about myself and others. I'm now aware that I have been unfair to the DJ and I will act according to this new realization. Furthermore, thanks to this forum, I have become much more compassionate towards boys and men and have also become aware of the fact that I can be and have been a bit of a heartbreaker (albeit unintentionally) and will be more careful with others' hearts in the future.

It is not exclusively for men, but the women who post here often offer such useful advice “as tell her you love her permanently”, further reinforcing that women do not know what they want.

Ummmm... Yeah. Women, like men, don't always give each other the greatest advice. But I just read another thread where a guy also ADMITTED to not knowing what he really wanted. "I don't know what I'm doing here, as I'm not out for one-night stands... Blah blah blah... I'm not sure about love and marriage... Blah blah blah.... I'm not really sure what I want but..."
See? Everybody's confused!!! You've got to admit it!!!!

Anyway love, what a word, I prefer deep infatuation.

Just wait, sonny boy... Your day will come. (Evil cackle)

There is a debate because you came to it with the idea that it was us causing the problem, which I believe you apologise for later. Selfish manipulator.

Tee-hee!!!

Anyway we can not tell you the answer, that is for you to work out on your own, we can only offer advice, anyway as someone else said you already know what you are going to do.

I don't recall asking for an overall answer, but rather, advice. When I said coming to a solution is more difficult, I was referring to myself. No, I actually didn't know what I was going to do until just now. (And I COULD still change my mind! HA!)

As do I know what you are going to do, I believe.

Oh yes, and what am I going to do? At least one of us knows, for certain!

Unneeded pain, surely it is better for you to decide it is unneeded, because it will be worse when he does find out

Better to break it off now and spare him additional pain in the future and provide him with more time to find a more suitable gf (he's young, charming, talented, and intelligent--- he'll be fine), don't you agree?)

Once a cheater always a cheater . . .

I've come to understand that everyone's a potential cheater just waiting to be discovered.

Momentary infatuation, anyway you will never know what could have been but you will probably end up torturing yourself.

Yeah, this is what sux about life. You only get to do it once and you'll never know what all the possible outcomes might have been. Not planning to torture myself about it, however. (You seem to think I'm a masochist).

Now, my best advice is whatever path you choose, stay happy with it as otherwise you will rip yourself apart.

I wholeheartedly agree! Now you're talking!!!

PUA, so how is this any different from the girls that destroy my friends lives, have them running little errands for the flash of a smile and the irrational idea that she might one day fall for them. I see my friends being ripped apart and they dont listen to me, that’s frustrating.

Your friends are young and smart but D-U-M-B. Don't worry, they'll wisen up eventually and break plenty of girls' hearts to make up for the past. LOL You're right, PUA is absolutely no different from, hmmm.... What term would be most suitable for such girls? Conniving, shrewish little biotches. Looks like they need a Petruchio to knock their little knockers in line. Of all the crimes against men that I may have committed, I have never deliberately used them this way (yay! clear conscience!).
But yeah, some women are just plain horrible. I sympathize, believe me. My brother's wife devastated him this year by divorcing him and taking half his life and material possessions away. What a biotch. Choose the "good" ones!

So I disagree, anyway he does not seem to have done anything wrong. Assumption here (and as you say late, they are dodgy), you are blaming him for being a PUA and putting you in this position but . . .

Hey! I agree with your disagreement. He's not done anything more wrong than I have. Except for hiding his gf from me and torturing me the way he has. I told him I had a bf when I sensed trouble brewing. Was he even planning to tell me about his own attachment? I found out about it randomly. Anyway, it doesn't matter now. The past no longer exists.

 

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by JSH

Love enriches life – no such thing, sorry to be pedantic. Because arguing also enriches life . . .[/B]

Ah-ha! Devil's advocate.

Anyway you have to make assumptions, everyday I walk out that door assuming im not going to die, every die I assume that the sky will not open and fall on me.

Wow, guess that means that you're not totally cynical (yet). You're undoubtably an optimist! There's hope for you, yet!

You can not live without assumptions, which is why people like their safe zones as in there rarely are thei assumptions false.

Right, that's why you should follow that dream to study in Moscow and learn Russian. That will definitely challenge all your current beliefs and convictions.
Just try not to hang out exclusively with your countrymen while you're here, or you won't learn s***. (I studied with a HUGE group of students from Leeds).

I view the world in colour, everything overlaps, but if you want to look at a single problem, as in an economics model, you need to make assumptions and simplify it.

How nice. A colorful schematic view of the world. Yes, but you need to make assumptions from ALL sides and angles to simply your view... Only then you can draw a balanced conclusion and make your decisions accordingly.

Thanks to the guys on this site for helping me realize this!

 

[Amalthea]

Originally posted by JSH

Ok maybe I was a bit nasty . . . Im sorry, apologies, it was more meant in a light hearted way.

Apologies accepted.

Hypocrite- what a wonderful word, surely that is the point of life, how can you judge others unless you do the same.

Yeah-- Everybody who uses the word hypocrite is just a hypocrite.

Narcissist, is that the only long word you know , maybe you and what you refer to as a PUA are matched as you also referred to him as a narcissist.

We very well may be matched...

Anyway good luck and roll with the punches.

Thanks--- I'll need it! Good luck to you, too, and be sure to heed your own advice.