Hey sup guys first post on the site and I love the content here. I wanted to discuss the "issues" with being a good-looking guy. Don't won't to toot my own horn and sound like a ****y kid on my first post but it is what it is. Males and females often tell me I'm the "best looking guy" and im commonly referred to as the stallion amongst my peers. I also have a fairly impressive build. I'm only 22 and have good success with women in terms of hooking up and little flings but bad in terms of serious dating. I feel as if though girls are often intimidated by me and don't trust me, or don't believe that I'm for real. I get dates with hotties regularly but nothing lasts. For instance the last girl I got into a little fling with kept trying to downplay me; almost as if she was trying to make me feel less than what I was so I would put her on a pedestal. I knew what she was doing but It didn't bother me because I was just trying to get laid as much as I could. Eventually I got sick of it and flipped the script. Of course a week later she told me to "grow up" and to "get over myself" lol. I just want to know if any of you guys got simmilar experiences and how you go about this dillema.
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btownbuck2012
Master Don Juan
Insecurity and an abundance of options on their part. Insecure women will think you're too good to be true and bail before you leave them. In their minds that's what they think is going to happen so they pull the plug first. Or they'll continue to f*ck you while they secretly keep their eye out/options open for a guy they can control. After enough casual ,marathon sex with you they'll have their hypergamous needs fulfilled and start thinking more along the lines of comfort and go for men who provide that. Usually they'll come back for you when they get horny again or that guy starts to bore them. Bottom line: they can have it both ways. They are always operating in one of those two mindsets. It's alpha ****s/beta bucks in it's truest from but the X factor here is our society truly enables them to do this with few or no repercussions or consequences. That's key to understand though, they will always have and be able to fully utilize that grass is greener mindset, either with an alpha or a beta, it's all about what she wants at the current time.
I truly do want and prefer a relationship with a woman BUT I'd rather be the guy she goes to for sex than the guy she goes to for the relationship. I truly don't think you can have both with them anymore, at least not for long.
I truly do want and prefer a relationship with a woman BUT I'd rather be the guy she goes to for sex than the guy she goes to for the relationship. I truly don't think you can have both with them anymore, at least not for long.
The problem today is the market in the West is basically trash. As in.. most women are low quality and not LTR material.
So your problem is probably more related to the women your f*cking being sh*tty people than your looks being intimidating to them.
Let me tell you.. any woman who talks down to you is a piece of sh*t. No matter how hot she is.
So your problem is probably more related to the women your f*cking being sh*tty people than your looks being intimidating to them.
Let me tell you.. any woman who talks down to you is a piece of sh*t. No matter how hot she is.
Man that's some knowledge right there. So right about the one or the other dynamic. Never been the boyfriend but always the guy she wants to cheat on her boyfriend with. Ive been trying to be both hahaha. Can't be both so I guess I'll keep being the ladder lol. True man these broads got all the leverage out here nowadays...
You can be both kind of.
Boyfriend only in name. Stay aloof and keep your eyes open for better options.
I know exactly what you're talking about, it's the story of my life. Women think I talk to a million chicks just because of how I look. They are too scared of me. Im usually always the guy on the side, while they have some chump boyfriend who does whatever they say..... over time I've just learned to embrace it. You gotta get in where you fit in lol... Women with boyfriends treat u the best tho, that's what's funny about it
@btownbuck2012 knocked it out of the park on this one.
You kinda get lumped into a certain category out of the gates & girls react off of that impression instead of considering that there might be more to you than that. You'll never get to slide in under the radar & insecure girls will be even more...insecure loo.
But having dealt with similar frustrations in my late teens/early 20's I've found that it's best just to embrace it. Unapologetically. When you look like a player but try to present yourself as a good guy, it comes off as incongruent. Girls will think you're just trying to fvck with their heads & Well, she's not going to fall for that pesky player! But if you just play into her intuition--talk about other girls, talk about hookups, tell her she can't trust you--ironically she trusts you more, since you're acting within her expectations of how you should act.
I know that seems counter-intuitive, but it gets you more face time, which allows her to 'discover' your good qualities over time & to build trust as she sees that you just didn't hit it & quit it. Insecure girls will still usually either bail or push super hard for a relationship & bail if you don't immediately give in (or lose respect for you if/when you do give in), but high self esteem girls are usually far more open to the possibility that you might commit to them over time.
You kinda get lumped into a certain category out of the gates & girls react off of that impression instead of considering that there might be more to you than that. You'll never get to slide in under the radar & insecure girls will be even more...insecure loo.
But having dealt with similar frustrations in my late teens/early 20's I've found that it's best just to embrace it. Unapologetically. When you look like a player but try to present yourself as a good guy, it comes off as incongruent. Girls will think you're just trying to fvck with their heads & Well, she's not going to fall for that pesky player! But if you just play into her intuition--talk about other girls, talk about hookups, tell her she can't trust you--ironically she trusts you more, since you're acting within her expectations of how you should act.
I know that seems counter-intuitive, but it gets you more face time, which allows her to 'discover' your good qualities over time & to build trust as she sees that you just didn't hit it & quit it. Insecure girls will still usually either bail or push super hard for a relationship & bail if you don't immediately give in (or lose respect for you if/when you do give in), but high self esteem girls are usually far more open to the possibility that you might commit to them over time.
btownbuck2012
Master Don Juan
+1 for some serious knowledge/wisdom here.
Macaframalama
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A chic won't jump ship if she sees you as a good leader. Your looks and initial demeanor may get you in the door, but what does she see in you after that? What do you have going on for you and where are you going in life? Do you have a job, a car and your own place to host her? Do you have her investing her resources in you and the relationship? If you've got them investing and she's down for the cause, it takes alot more effort to run them off, than to get them in the first place, but keeping them requires leading them. If you want to keep eating the fruit, you've got to water the tree.
This. You can't be the good guy if you look like the bad boy, atleast in my experience. If I try to be considerate and caring most things I say will come off as ingeniune and insinscere; but when I start saying vulgar things and get a testosterone surge it's what they expect. I guess both approaches work to get laid depending on how naive, insecure, secure, etc she is. This is just something I pondered I'm not dying for a LTR. In retrospect I'd rather be this than that hahaha
I just turned 22 a month ago, so I'm not balling. I'm paying student loans and such, but I do have a job, a car and my own place. Just got my undergrad from a well renowned business school. Broad earlier from this year said "I was everything a girl could ask for" but a couple months later we parted. She was constantly asking about other girls and wondered why I was seeing her.I went out of my way to try to prove to her I was down for her( really insecure pretty girl). I even posted a pic of her on social media which cut off so many of the "other" girls. Anyways couple months later it fizzled out. Looking back I worked way harder than I should have to prove to her I was for real. I rarely put in that level of effort though, so maybe that's my problem, but the other bros bring up sound reasoning. Thanks for the reply.
BeExcellent
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Advice from the old lady:
Date hotter women. Learn to screen women based on self esteem in combination with beauty. Many very beautiful women are very insecure. Not all. There exist, in your target age range, really gorgeous girls who are also solid people. They experience the same market phenomena that you are experiencing, and they will understand you better right out of the gate.
Women who are less attractive are going to naturally disqualify themselves because they are insecure/neurotic but also because they KNOW you can pull hotter girls (so they assume eventually you will).
You want a girl who is nice to you but not overly impressed. A hot but cool/chill woman. A high self esteem chick is going to want to learn who it is that lives in that handsome package...and she will have MORE interest in who you are rather than what you look like. Likewise she will seek a man who is interested in MORE than her pretty face/hot body.
I have been fortunate to be this type woman all my life. I've had LTRs with extremely good looking men, including a professional male model, and a man who looked like a cross between George Clooney & Charlie Sheen. I married a sexy nightclub owner who had a top venue in the 90's. Women constantly threw/throw themselves at men I was with...and I was never jealous because I had the confidence to know my guy was with me and that was that. Were the other women sometimes prettier or skinnier or something? Sure. But they were never better as a total package.
But you have to play to expectations too. It's funny. I typically date "player" types. The man I'm seeing now? Enormous player reputation. In fact, what's cute is his concern about his reputation because he cares what I think of him. We are about 4 months in and he refers to us as boyfriend/girlfriend.
When we had our first date after we met (and I politely declined going home with him) he said to me, "I'm a bad boy. I make you nervous"...I looked at him and laughed and said "Dont be ridiculous. I'm not nervous at all. I'm comfortable with men like you"....and something about that statement let him step outside that "bad boy" role people always put him in.
My attitude encouraged him to be a real person, not just a pretty package...and I will say he is devastatingly handsome and as smooth a charmer as they come. He's also a solid man who is a gentleman, a rogue, a leader, and sometimes a goofball. He gets jealous (imagine that!) and insecure.
I understand him. Why? I'm very much like him in many ways. He appreciates that I understand him. He likes that I bust his chops here and there when he's acting like a prima donna too. I do it in a cute way and it keeps things real.
I'm telling you all this OP to say that there are women out there who will appreciate you for you, without being blown out by your handsome face & great build. But you need to set your sights on top tier women. Right now you are not aiming high enough.
You gotta aim very high to find the cool confident hot women with high self esteem. They are rare, (less rare in your target age bracket) but they are out there.
That's my 10 cents.
Date hotter women. Learn to screen women based on self esteem in combination with beauty. Many very beautiful women are very insecure. Not all. There exist, in your target age range, really gorgeous girls who are also solid people. They experience the same market phenomena that you are experiencing, and they will understand you better right out of the gate.
Women who are less attractive are going to naturally disqualify themselves because they are insecure/neurotic but also because they KNOW you can pull hotter girls (so they assume eventually you will).
You want a girl who is nice to you but not overly impressed. A hot but cool/chill woman. A high self esteem chick is going to want to learn who it is that lives in that handsome package...and she will have MORE interest in who you are rather than what you look like. Likewise she will seek a man who is interested in MORE than her pretty face/hot body.
I have been fortunate to be this type woman all my life. I've had LTRs with extremely good looking men, including a professional male model, and a man who looked like a cross between George Clooney & Charlie Sheen. I married a sexy nightclub owner who had a top venue in the 90's. Women constantly threw/throw themselves at men I was with...and I was never jealous because I had the confidence to know my guy was with me and that was that. Were the other women sometimes prettier or skinnier or something? Sure. But they were never better as a total package.
But you have to play to expectations too. It's funny. I typically date "player" types. The man I'm seeing now? Enormous player reputation. In fact, what's cute is his concern about his reputation because he cares what I think of him. We are about 4 months in and he refers to us as boyfriend/girlfriend.
When we had our first date after we met (and I politely declined going home with him) he said to me, "I'm a bad boy. I make you nervous"...I looked at him and laughed and said "Dont be ridiculous. I'm not nervous at all. I'm comfortable with men like you"....and something about that statement let him step outside that "bad boy" role people always put him in.
My attitude encouraged him to be a real person, not just a pretty package...and I will say he is devastatingly handsome and as smooth a charmer as they come. He's also a solid man who is a gentleman, a rogue, a leader, and sometimes a goofball. He gets jealous (imagine that!) and insecure.
I understand him. Why? I'm very much like him in many ways. He appreciates that I understand him. He likes that I bust his chops here and there when he's acting like a prima donna too. I do it in a cute way and it keeps things real.
I'm telling you all this OP to say that there are women out there who will appreciate you for you, without being blown out by your handsome face & great build. But you need to set your sights on top tier women. Right now you are not aiming high enough.
You gotta aim very high to find the cool confident hot women with high self esteem. They are rare, (less rare in your target age bracket) but they are out there.
That's my 10 cents.
Sure you can.
Great post. Bruh it took me a long time to understand this. I am just now getting it. Its soo counterintuitive.
The last girl I dated was below me in looks by far. She gave me sex easily. She told me that she didn't believe that I was serious and thought that I was just being nice to her just to keep smashing. So even when I showed boyfriend qualities she didn't believe it. She thought it was a ploy in order to secure the constant sex. Funny thing is that I actually really liked her. It wasn't a ploy. Needless to say that didn't last long.
It's just a fundamental misconceptions between What is attractive to women (Red Pill) vs. What you think should be attractive to women based on social conditioning and mainstream social narratives (Blue Pill).
So while an Alpha in Beta Clothes is an attractive archetype (think physically nondescript guy with super strong frame & game)--a diamond in the rough that maybe only she has discovered, a Beta in Alpha Clothes (the guy she thinks is super badazz but is eager to commit) is not. He's 'broken.'
What does work as an archetype for relationships is the just-barely-a-little-tamable-maybe Bad Boy who, due to her self-perceived uniqueness, she is able to capture the attention of--but just barely. Think every romance novel ever. And what works as an archetype for purely physical relationships is just being a badazz who won't commit to her at all ever & doesn't even care if she has some primary provider bf or whatever. But both of those look the same way starting out.
Another mistake a lot of guys make is trying to be too perfect. That guy makes her too insecure for emotional investment & too potentially valuable for just sex--so usually the default response (for all but the highest self-esteem girls) is to flake out. It's far better to present yourself as a loose cannon--really sexually valuable (i.e. hot) but whose lifestyle is a deliberate mystery or who paints himself as super low status. I tell girls I cold approach that I work some super low status job, like fast food or a garbageman or whatever--but I say it like its the greatest thing ever. Like I'm totally oblivious to the fact that being a garbageman isn't the best job ever. I drive a garbage truck--Well, I don't really drive it. I'm still on the back, but my supervisor told me if I stick around a couple years someday he might make me a driver.
And I'll keep that going as long as possible (usually to the point when a girl's proven herself worthy to really be a part of my life--and then I'll stage some really big 'confession'). It accomplishes several things: 1.) I know that any girl who still treats me well likes me for me 2.) It totally disqualifies me from being a provider or being judged as one 3.) It creates tension & mystery--why is this garbageman so confident? What else does he have going for him? He can't really be a garbageman, can he? Why doesn't he care about impressing me? But he has so many good qualities--maybe I can inspire him to do this, that, or the other.
Notice how many emotional threads/possibilities that creates as opposed to I work IT in a corporate branch of some huge corporation and make six figures plus benefits and the reason I didn't text you back the other night wasn't because I was with another girl or at some epic party but because I go to be at 10:30 since I have to wake up at 5 for my morning commute. Now, at a certain point most girls will want you to have that type of stability if you a pursuing anything longer term, but it's way more effective to relieve that tension on the back end than to kill it all on the front end when she isn't even sure whether she's looking for a relationship or not and dating an IT worker doesn't feel like a very emotionally compelling narrative. Even tho logically she should be dating the IT worker instead of the garbageman lol.
Also, pay attention to what @BeExcellent wrote regarding high self-esteem women. They are usually way more flexible & laid back dating other people with high status & don't need you to adhere to some cardboard cutout that she can fit neatly into her reality without risking her own identity. For example, they can date a high status man and realize he's still a man at the end of the day (whereas with lower self-esteem girls, the minute you show her you might have depth or even paradoxical qualities, she's probably gonna bail). HSE women are super rare, but they are out there & you'll know it when you see it. Personally, I enjoy them when I find them but don't meet them often enough not to enjoy the company of less secure women as well, even if that means being a walking dildo from time to time or playing into stereotypes. Just avoid getting too involved with girls that are super low self-esteem or Cluster B, since that's usually more of a headache than it's worth.
Wow, really appreciate the insight. Thank you !
BeExcellent
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It's a bit of a tangent but I wanted to emphasize something worth understanding as it requires fine social calibration:
And this makes perfect sense. For both these archetypes are all about sex first and ask questions later. The vast majority of women succumb easily to both types, and therefore are never able to discern the two because they lose the opportunity to objectively consider the man before sex occurs. When sex happens too quickly the conquest is over and she's nothing special. Both types of man then move on to the next conquest.
High self esteem girls who have self respect and sexual restraint will flush out the user type sex only bad boys and thereby disqualify them quickly by not allowing sex too fast and this will reveal the possibly tamable playboy type who would be open to the right woman, but who has so much choice that the woman must be a standout in many ways (not just looks & physique).
A playboy is always intrigued by a woman who can resist his well rehearsed charms.
But she must resist him naturally and in a genuine way rather than in a contrived way, and so much the better if she is willing to show her interest/desire and still go home without him.
As relationships develop between high value partners each person is best served to retain the ability to walk away at any time, while consciously choosing to stay in the relationship. The best relationships are a result of two complete people choosing in real time to invest in each other and the relationship...even when either could entertain other options. It is impossible to take one another for granted in such a relationship and it consists of constantly being the best option for the partner while honoring ones self.
Needless to say this is not for the insecure or the faint of heart...and that is why neurotic behaviors, laziness and crazy making blow out relationships...one party was subpar relative to the other.
In contrast two whole individuals are able to relax and enjoy one another in the peace and sanctuary a solid relationship built by partners of similar high value can provide. They "get" each other and create comfort together. They both benefit but they can neither get complacent.
The above sentence captures the essence of the razor edge of the fine line between incorrigible "bad boy" who loses redeeming qualities in his no fvcks given attitude who is more a user of women and the charmer/playboy who genuinely loves women but is extremely selective about who he gets involved with beyond just sex. As @fastlife notes, the two (bad boys and playboys) over lap and have the identical presentation upon initial encounter.
And this makes perfect sense. For both these archetypes are all about sex first and ask questions later. The vast majority of women succumb easily to both types, and therefore are never able to discern the two because they lose the opportunity to objectively consider the man before sex occurs. When sex happens too quickly the conquest is over and she's nothing special. Both types of man then move on to the next conquest.
High self esteem girls who have self respect and sexual restraint will flush out the user type sex only bad boys and thereby disqualify them quickly by not allowing sex too fast and this will reveal the possibly tamable playboy type who would be open to the right woman, but who has so much choice that the woman must be a standout in many ways (not just looks & physique).
A playboy is always intrigued by a woman who can resist his well rehearsed charms.
But she must resist him naturally and in a genuine way rather than in a contrived way, and so much the better if she is willing to show her interest/desire and still go home without him.
As relationships develop between high value partners each person is best served to retain the ability to walk away at any time, while consciously choosing to stay in the relationship. The best relationships are a result of two complete people choosing in real time to invest in each other and the relationship...even when either could entertain other options. It is impossible to take one another for granted in such a relationship and it consists of constantly being the best option for the partner while honoring ones self.
Needless to say this is not for the insecure or the faint of heart...and that is why neurotic behaviors, laziness and crazy making blow out relationships...one party was subpar relative to the other.
In contrast two whole individuals are able to relax and enjoy one another in the peace and sanctuary a solid relationship built by partners of similar high value can provide. They "get" each other and create comfort together. They both benefit but they can neither get complacent.
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RichardTheFrog
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What makes you so alpha in your mind?
