mall approaches, instant dates.. no. closing.. any tips?

[pete101]

seeing as xmas is upon us i've tried some mall approaches this week in an indirect opener sort of way.

opening seems to be fine and approaching, but it seems i have limited time to transition from chit chat banter to demonstrating my intentions. i heard for approaches like this indirect openers are good but u need to quickly neg and change the topic otherwise it's just about whatever your indirect opener is..

for instance say i start talking to a HB who's holding an item i'll just say 'that's suppose to be good' they'll ask 'is it?' then i'll make something up, from there i talk a little bit more about the topic at hand bu cos everyone seems to be in a rush buying things it's difficult to keep it going when they're already half walking away as soon as you've even spoken.

i managed to take 1 for an instant coffee date, but the b1tch had a bf.. i was thinking i should have tried to no. close 1st before going for the instant coffee date. thing is.. im expecting many HBs to give up resistance to the number exchange, so u try once more.. failing that offer a time constraint that you're leaving soon and go for a quick coffee..

what do u talk about on this instant date?

most of my tactics work in a romantic setting like a quiet bar where it's easier to kino etc.. i find it near impossible to kino if im sitting opposite her in a starbucks or something.. what would u do?

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

What's the reason should she be hearing you out? Ur just opening her under the radar to act as if ur not into her. Your just talking about regular stuff. Why not be upfront with ur intentions from the very start, that u are interested in a non-apologetic, confident and suave way? Trust me, she'll def showing even more interest. Why not do direct? Its MUCH BETTER for day game anyhow from my experience

But for the insta-date, NICE JOB! Most guys can't meet up with a girl that fast when meeting her, so thats definitely big props there. Plus yea, definitely go for the number. resistence is expected...hell sometimes its reassuring as i'd rather have a girl resist but be interested than her non resist at all but be pure flakage ya know? ;-)

In a romantic setting at starbucks, don't sit across from her. Sit "NEXT" to her

Good Luck.

 

[pete101]

the thing is the direct approach can be considered 'desperate' in a mall setting.. like some of these girls u can tell would react in a very stern way cos they deem 'meeting' people should be reserved for in a club or bar..

the indirect opener is fine to prevent that but i MUST transition quickly to my intentions within 2-3 lines of convo once the opener is completed otherwise i feel like i'm being LJBF'd.

how do u avoid the problem of people being in a rush? it's like they're already 1/2 leaving as u speak and don't have time to talk to u.. what would be a good direct opener in a mall then?

also what topics to talk about in the starbucks?

i just feel that after a 5 min instant coffee date.. i still won't be getting the number exchange cos i duno what to talk about or ask..

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

the thing is the direct approach can be considered 'desperate' in a mall setting.. like some of these girls u can tell would react in a very stern way cos they deem 'meeting' people should be reserved for in a club or bar..

You don't understand the basis behind direct. Direct is the OPPOSITE of desperate. Its the antithesis of it. Direct is simple. U letting the girl know interest based on a statement of intent, in a confident, unapologetic, and take it or leave it manner. How is it desperate where u don't care if she rejects u or not, or is interested back?

Also how would they react in a stern way in the mall where its some place they LEAST expect to get seduced at. Have u tried it? Why else would woman try to look sexy randomly during the day, especially if there single? Behind their consciousness, they're hoping one day to be swept off their feet when they least expect it. Also, from my experience....the hottest women respond the BEST to a direct approach randomly during the day., Will some women act very sternly? Rarely...but it can happen...but why care if a majority of women will respond really well? With Direct, ur risking rejection and rather be rejected when she knows ur into her than a girl is nice but is thinking ur friendly.

the indirect opener is fine to prevent that but i MUST transition quickly to my intentions within 2-3 lines of convo once the opener is completed otherwise i feel like i'm being LJBF'd.

That's the thing, ur so worried about the girl rejecting u, ur trying to PREVENT IT. In the game, we don't try to prevent rejection(Social Condition is the exception), we accept it and move forward. An indirect opener only delays things. Don't prevent them all together.

how do u avoid the problem of people being in a rush? it's like they're already 1/2 leaving as u speak and don't have time to talk to u.. what would be a good direct opener in a mall then?

Tell them u are gonna talk to them for just a minute. This eases pressure off them. For example:

"I find you so damn gorgeous, i'm gonna talk to you for a minute"

This can be effective, because they don't feel they have to stand there for a long period of time. Its like 'Oh ok...its only gonna be a minute" BUt guess what? They're still there pass the minute ;-)

also what topics to talk about in the starbucks?

i just feel that after a 5 min instant coffee date.. i still won't be getting the number exchange cos i duno what to talk about or ask..

Its all about getting to know her. Talk about her. She'll tell u about urself, then u can try to relate her. For example, "Tell me about urself" From my experience, women like this, as the #1 thing they like talking about is, Themselves. Try it. But remember, go for the girls u see that u want the most

 

[pete101]

i don't think that would work in the UK.. the girls here would not respond well to that sort of approach unless she's already pbysically attracted to you.. if anything she'd judge u for it and think you're a weirdo/creep..

how would u bypass something like that?

 

[everywomanshero]

I have to admit I have not done of these in a while due to an already full plate, but I've done a lot of these in the past, including earlier this year.

In some cases I've made out with mall chicks in less than 5 minutes... in other cases I've sat and chatted with girls in the food court for over an hour.
Phone numbers alone are not that productive for me, so I will at least try to kiss her right there. If that goes south, I don't take her number. Actually, sometimes I don't take her number anyway.

Here is what I do:

1) I don't talk to employees til I see them in the food court... too much of a pain in the arse and too many possible distractions to bother talking to people on the clock. Just wait and they will show up in the food court sooner or later. Small groups of girls are probably the easiest for "flash makeouts" where the friends will often encourage us.... Not sure what's up with that but it's happened a few times now.

2) Scan the food court. Walk up to chicks in the food court and join them. Usually they work in the mall but sometimes they are shoping or waiting to meet someone. A couple of times a bf/husband would show up after a minute lol

3) Just talk to the chicks, if it's an employee that I know I'll see again, then I might make an exception to minimum of kiss close but on all shoppers it's now or never anyway and I know a phone number alone is mostly crap so I give it a shot and see what happens. I don't try to kiss them at the very end because I think that's kind of cheesy, I prefer to sit with them handing hands, kissing, or something for a few minutes. If I kiss them on the leave I'll pull them on my lap for a minute so it doesn't feel like I just kissed them and ran off. Again, if she's not even interested enough for any of this, then the phone number wasn't going to do me much good anyway, so I don't take it.

As far as running around like a chicken with its head cutt off randomly barking at every woman in the mall and trying to get numbers, I don't see the point in that. I'd rather spend the time to build some connection and have a better chance of porking her within the week. Average trip to the mall will only involve 3 or 4 approaches max, sometimes just 1 long approach if I hit the right one. I've also had some luck with walking shoppers but it's a little more weird for me to do, so I prefer to just check the food court, there is almost always one or two good approaches in there to be done anyway.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

i don't think that would work in the UK.. the girls here would not respond well to that sort of approach unless she's already pbysically attracted to you.. if anything she'd judge u for it and think you're a weirdo/creep..

how would u bypass something like that?

U've got too many limiting beliefs right now. Ur making excuses. Other guys will say, "Oh a direct approach wouldn't work in Spain" or "In china...girls are too shy to respond to a direct approach". Guess what? Everywhere in the world, where u won't get killed for it, a direct approach is fine. Most women want to be swept off her feet. C'mon dude, 'If anything....she'll think your a weirdo or a creep"...yes u'll be one if u think so. if u know ur a pretty attractive guy, then most women will respond well to it when ur confident about it.

Will a few women out of the MANY u approach think ur creepy or a weirdo? Absolutely...but its got nothing to do with u, but them. All u did was go up to them with a statement of intent and they can take it or leave it. If they honestly think ur creepy for it, then something's wrong with her, not you. Plus why even give a D4mn of the women who view you negatively, its the women who respond well are the ones that matter. What's justifiably creepy about it? Most women can't answer this in a justified manner. But even then, to be a true player....u must unaffected by criticisms by women....as otherwise, u'll be oblivious to criticisms and women WILL BE above u because they can manipulate you.

On a college campus, i've gotten called, creepy and/or weirdo by girls countless times BUT around their peers they said it when asked about me...but when no one was around, they kept looking at me each time they saw me(ESPECIALLY when i talk to new girls OR some flat out kept looking at me even when they were making out drunk with a random chode) and the hottest girls showed the most interest as a result of a direct approach and i've gotten to meet up with cute girls.

So what would anyone choose? Never be criticized and be liked by all girls but nothing happens, or get laid quite a bit BUT get criticized cuz of a woman's social conditioning?

Lastly, yes i've done them in the real world too lol

So Pete, before u keep making assumptions, try 25 approaches on the hottest women u see. And come back and tell me how many were CREEPED OUT as u said they'd be. Now if they haven't walked away after u go up to them directly....then i rest my case. Oh yea, and if they react weird the first 5...it just means ur not congruent with a direct approach. U can back out if u still will make excuses OR if u seriously feel that i'm wrong, then prove it.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

I have to admit I have not done of these in a while due to an already full plate, but I've done a lot of these in the past, including earlier this year.

In some cases I've made out with mall chicks in less than 5 minutes... in other cases I've sat and chatted with girls in the food court for over an hour.
Phone numbers alone are not that productive for me, so I will at least try to kiss her right there. If that goes south, I don't take her number. Actually, sometimes I don't take her number anyway.

Everywomanshero... I don't visit much here, but u should include more of ur reports. U seem credible so far.

Here is what I do:

1) I don't talk to employees til I see them in the food court... too much of a pain in the arse and too many possible distractions to bother talking to people on the clock. Just wait and they will show up in the food court sooner or later. Small groups of girls are probably the easiest for "flash makeouts" where the friends will often encourage us.... Not sure what's up with that but it's happened a few times now.

I like that my friend. NICE! Plus waiting for them to be away from work is DEFINITELY the best idea, because they don't have to feel that "Pressure" of customers or the boss being around, they can be themselves.

2) Scan the food court. Walk up to chicks in the food court and join them. Usually they work in the mall but sometimes they are shoping or waiting to meet someone. A couple of times a bf/husband would show up after a minute lol

Yea lol but its funny that rarely will they be mad. Why would they be? Ur not physically doing anything with her...the girl most of the time will let u know WHILE the bf/husband nods that its fact.

3) Just talk to the chicks, if it's an employee that I know I'll see again, then I might make an exception to minimum of kiss close but on all shoppers it's now or never anyway and I know a phone number alone is mostly crap so I give it a shot and see what happens. I don't try to kiss them at the very end because I think that's kind of cheesy, I prefer to sit with them handing hands, kissing, or something for a few minutes. If I kiss them on the leave I'll pull them on my lap for a minute so it doesn't feel like I just kissed them and ran off. Again, if she's not even interested enough for any of this, then the phone number wasn't going to do me much good anyway, so I don't take it.

Yea, phone numbers suck for day game, its all a number's game and alot of the time....its just social conditioning that hits the women even if they really like u.

As far as running around like a chicken with its head cutt off randomly barking at every woman in the mall and trying to get numbers, I don't see the point in that. I'd rather spend the time to build some connection and have a better chance of porking her within the week. Average trip to the mall will only involve 3 or 4 approaches max, sometimes just 1 long approach if I hit the right one. I've also had some luck with walking shoppers but it's a little more weird for me to do, so I prefer to just check the food court, there is almost always one or two good approaches in there to be done anyway.

Now if its to get comfortable in that environmnet, i believe approaching ALOT will help because u'll get more relaxed, then as time goes on...yea, prolly doing 4-5 or 6-10 is better since now its all about which one u click with the most. But Walking Shoppers, why is it weird? lol. Those are the best ones to go after, women walking ;-) They don't expect it PLUS ur not limited to who u believe u should approach or not. Badboy's STOP approach is BEST for it.

But good stuff EWH :-D

 

[abcd_z]

You're using a situational opener. They're perfectly fine to get a woman talking, but those by themselves won't get you past the hook point, where a woman is actually interested in what you have to say.

Come up with some routines. I know a lot of people on this forum have a negative reaction to them*, but they can be very useful in a situation like this. Practice storytelling, push/pull, false disqualification, mini-cold reads. Try having a good 10-20 minutes of material you can fall back on if you don't know what else to say.

Once you get the sense that she's interested in what you have to say, you can shift to open-ended questions and general conversation, rewarding her (with validation, physical contact, a statement of intent, a #-close, whatever) when she displays a unique quality you find attractive.

Anyhow, good luck with your sarging, let us know how it goes.


* "Dur huh, routines are crutches, just be a man!"
...which isn't much worse than "just be yourself" as far as advice goes, but I digress.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

You're using a situational opener. They're perfectly fine to get a woman talking, but those by themselves won't get you past the hook point, where a woman is actually interested in what you have to say.

Come up with some routines. I know a lot of people on this forum have a negative reaction to them*, but they can be very useful in a situation like this. Practice storytelling, push/pull, false disqualification, mini-cold reads. Try having a good 10-20 minutes of material you can fall back on if you don't know what else to say.

Why even go through that stuff to fall back on? Why even care about doing any of that? Just say anything thats not remotely stupid. if he's having trouble right now, he just go to practice being more natural is all. It just seems the above serves no purpose other than training wheels.

Once you get the sense that she's interested in what you have to say, you can shift to open-ended questions and general conversation, rewarding her (with validation, physical contact, a statement of intent, a #-close, whatever) when she displays a unique quality you find attractive.

Thats the thing, ur relying on her showing interest first before u go into to do the general conversation. Why not just do this off the bat? Ur wasting less time rather than waiting ten to twenty minutes before doing it?

Anyhow, good luck with your sarging, let us know how it goes.

* "Dur huh, routines are crutches, just be a man!"
...which isn't much worse than "just be yourself" as far as advice goes, but I digress.

Thats the problem, when people say be urself, they forget that ur not actually ur most confident and charming self, which is the point.

So instead of taking advice of just being urself or using routines or a crutch, why not just work on being the self u deep down want to be?

 

[pete101]

U've got too many limiting beliefs right now. Ur making excuses. Other guys will say, "Oh a direct approach wouldn't work in Spain" or "In china...girls are too shy to respond to a direct approach". Guess what? Everywhere in the world, where u won't get killed for it, a direct approach is fine. Most women want to be swept off her feet. C'mon dude, 'If anything....she'll think your a weirdo or a creep"...yes u'll be one if u think so. if u know ur a pretty attractive guy, then most women will respond well to it when ur confident about it.

Will a few women out of the MANY u approach think ur creepy or a weirdo? Absolutely...but its got nothing to do with u, but them. All u did was go up to them with a statement of intent and they can take it or leave it. If they honestly think ur creepy for it, then something's wrong with her, not you. Plus why even give a D4mn of the women who view you negatively, its the women who respond well are the ones that matter. What's justifiably creepy about it? Most women can't answer this in a justified manner. But even then, to be a true player....u must unaffected by criticisms by women....as otherwise, u'll be oblivious to criticisms and women WILL BE above u because they can manipulate you.

On a college campus, i've gotten called, creepy and/or weirdo by girls countless times BUT around their peers they said it when asked about me...but when no one was around, they kept looking at me each time they saw me(ESPECIALLY when i talk to new girls OR some flat out kept looking at me even when they were making out drunk with a random chode) and the hottest girls showed the most interest as a result of a direct approach and i've gotten to meet up with cute girls.

So what would anyone choose? Never be criticized and be liked by all girls but nothing happens, or get laid quite a bit BUT get criticized cuz of a woman's social conditioning?

Lastly, yes i've done them in the real world too lol

So Pete, before u keep making assumptions, try 25 approaches on the hottest women u see. And come back and tell me how many were CREEPED OUT as u said they'd be. Now if they haven't walked away after u go up to them directly....then i rest my case. Oh yea, and if they react weird the first 5...it just means ur not congruent with a direct approach. U can back out if u still will make excuses OR if u seriously feel that i'm wrong, then prove it.

The thing is you got to understand here in London if you've ever been here, ask anyone.. it's not socially acceptable to start talking to people on the street etc.. everyone will tell you the same story say you start talking to strangers on the underground trains.. they'll think you're a psycho. it's just 1 of these things that's unfortunately accepted. even foreigners who come here who are very open and talkative change their behaviour because of it. sad but true.

I've tried direct openers before, the girls just walk by looking at you awkwardly. if i do it in a shop if she's not physically attracted to you, you can see the response of 'who are you? why are you talking to me?'

The reason i do the slight indirect opener of starting a convo with them then immediately move into a pick up is that it reduces their initial defences, the reason it goes wrong is that I don't transition quick enough into the pick up so i fail.

For instance last week I was next to a HB looking at some things to buy as xmas presents. I was really stressed that day and confidence was a little low but that didn't affect me approaching although it made me hesistate a bit.

I'm kicking myself cos i could tell i opened her well but i didn't escalate the convo into a pick up, she seemed responsive but cos there were staff walking around us i hesistated and didn't follow through, cos of the hesistation she left and went to pay for her gift.

I was kicking myself after but i was hoping that after she paid for a gift at the till which was about 7 feet from where we were standing previously she'd walk back my way so i'd open, but unfortunately she went in the opposite direction and it was too late.

Although if i was to be smart i should have quickly walked and then walk in front of her than looked back and then make some passing comment, cos if i had walked behind her then tried talking to her from behind she prob think i was following her, by walking in front then looking back then looking away then looking back realising it was her would make her think i wasn't following her and just leaving the shop at the same time. Creepy I know but if you messed up and didn't open her I guess you got to do what you got to do to get another chance at it esp if she was receptive.

 

[pete101]

You're using a situational opener. They're perfectly fine to get a woman talking, but those by themselves won't get you past the hook point, where a woman is actually interested in what you have to say.

Come up with some routines. I know a lot of people on this forum have a negative reaction to them*, but they can be very useful in a situation like this. Practice storytelling, push/pull, false disqualification, mini-cold reads. Try having a good 10-20 minutes of material you can fall back on if you don't know what else to say.

Once you get the sense that she's interested in what you have to say, you can shift to open-ended questions and general conversation, rewarding her (with validation, physical contact, a statement of intent, a #-close, whatever) when she displays a unique quality you find attractive.

Anyhow, good luck with your sarging, let us know how it goes.


* "Dur huh, routines are crutches, just be a man!"
...which isn't much worse than "just be yourself" as far as advice goes, but I digress.

Can you give me an example of false disqualification in this setting?

thanks

 

[abcd_z]

• I can already tell, you and I are not going to get along
• You’re too much of a nice girl for me
• I’m totally not boyfriend material. You need a nice guy who will buy you flowers and tell you how great you look. Hey, that guy over there looks perfect for you.
• You are trouble, I shouldn’t be talking to you

And it's not "in this setting". The point of routines is that you can use them wherever you want. Subway, mall, dance club, wherever you find yourself sarging.

Best of luck.

 

[abcd_z]

DonJoseCantosie: Not to hijack the thread, but it's exactly the same. You say "just work on being the self u deep down want to be". I have no problems with that. In fact, I completely agree with you. The problem with both "just be yourself" and "be natural" is that they don't say anything about HOW to do this in a way that's attractive to women. That's an outer game issue, and something that I haven't seen addressed too much.

Routines are an easy way to get used to proper outer game, especially when the alternative is "just be natural". I mean, let's face it. Which has a better chance of success: "You gotta be a man", or "deliver routines X, Y, and Z to build attraction"? I'm not saying that this isn't without its own risks (becoming a routine monkey), but it does seem better than any other options I've seen so far.

Having said that, I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for somebody to say "okay, here's exactly how a person with little experience with women and overwhelming approach anxiety is supposed to improve himself with advice found on the internet BY BEING NATURAL."

Speaking of which, that's a contradiction in terms. If he were being natural, just like if he were "being himself", he wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary. And that's why nothing would change. The fact that he's here means that he's willing to do whatever it takes to change what is natural to him. And that means learning unnatural things, at least at first, until they become natural. If we're doing things that he's never done before, that he's not used to (being a challenge, ****y & funny, etc.), why are routines that much worse?

I'm not saying that routines are for everybody. But shouldn't people at least get the chance to try?

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

Pete101:

ABOUT LOWERING HER DEFENSES:
Petey, ur so concerned with her defenses...that its affecting ur approach. Even if u go in indirect, some are gonna react that way. So why even bother worrying about it? Its more incongruent when ur hiding ur interest then ALL of a sudden u reveal it to her out of the blue, THAN when she knows u are off the bat. She doesn't have to be as suspicious. BUt if u want to stick with indirect, make sure it comes off congruent.

ABOUT THE DIRECT APPROACH:
Pete, how many direct approaches have u done in London? How many exactly? Have u honestly tried atleast 25 in a certain period consistently? I don't care if afew women looked at u like a psycho, here in the states i've gotten those looks before. If u were nervous and said it with a lack of confidence, of course u'll get that reaction.

Are you even doing the direct approach right, or do u think hitting on them from the side or just saying hi is a direct approach? What do u define as a direct approach? Most of the time...they don't expect it. Don't assume they're not interested just cuz they're caught off guard. Keep plowing. They just need to feel a lil more comfortable is all and thus, doing that...u keep talking to them. Approaching during the day in itself directly, is not a socially accepted thing, why else would a lot of guys be afraid to do it in general? "Oh cuz it'd be creepy/Its not generally accepted" Same excuse u've said. So what difference does it make in London?

I don't care what other people tell u, just cuz something is not socially accepted, doesn't mean u shouldn't do it. I don't know how many females have said, "oh approached during the day? Thats creepy?" or "That's weird". Its not generally accepted here either. What most guys do will hit on a woman from the side in a pathetic manner, thats NOT a direct approach. But the majority of women have responded well to direct. Saying is one thing, while the actions associated, are another.

For further back up to my claims. Check out London Soul at Love Systems, he hails in london, does the direct approach, and the women there LOVE IT. I repeat, he does it in London and they love it. Now how many more excuses can u give me now on it wouldn't work, PERIOD? ;-)

Ur now gonna come up with more excuses now? ;-)

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

DonJoseCantosie: Not to hijack the thread, but it's exactly the same. You say "just work on being the self u deep down want to be". I have no problems with that. In fact, I completely agree with you. The problem with both "just be yourself" and "be natural" is that they don't say anything about HOW to do this in a way that's attractive to women. That's an outer game issue, and something that I haven't seen addressed too much.

Thats what the natural methods are out for. They have set missions and work on ur outer game . They do indeed explain HOW.

Routines are an easy way to get used to proper outer game, especially when the alternative is "just be natural". I mean, let's face it. Which has a better chance of success: "You gotta be a man", or "deliver routines X, Y, and Z to build attraction"? I'm not saying that this isn't without its own risks (becoming a routine monkey), but it does seem better than any other options I've seen so far.

Easy way, but does not mean the most effective in the long run. If that wasn't the case, there'd be no point for these companies to switch to the natural style these days. And i've said before, they explain how to do things WITHOUT delivering routine X, Y, and Z. Sure they're steps too, just without being indirect.

Having said that, I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for somebody to say "okay, here's exactly how a person with little experience with women and overwhelming approach anxiety is supposed to improve himself with advice found on the internet BY BEING NATURAL."

I'll prove you wrong right now. For Example: Gunwitch Method has set missions that he explains on how to do them.There have been quite a few "Nervous" guys who've tried this and guess what? They did fine. They have super approach anxiety because of limiting beliefs first hand. Once some of these beliefs are taken away, that's when the person will feel less afraid at least. What the routine crowd still said u weren't good enough and had to use the lines in order to get interest from the girl. Natural methods said fvck that, ur already good enough, u just got to learn how to get away these fears. MM, didn't address the fears, they'd say...u must say these things to put a girl down to ur level. The guy deep down is still just as afraid as he was, its just temporary relief. Natural addresses their inner game, their core...their less afraid in a more permanent sense. Which has alot to do with using outer game effectively. Next, if he's afraid to look at women in the eye, he does a certain amount of eye contact missions, then "Hi" missions.

Then strike up conversation with random people about the environment. Then just going up to women and approaching, and then over time sticking in their longer with example rapport topics he gives. Its natural because its relevant to the situation at hand. Then changing the way they talk to the girl(FOR EXAMPLE: More romantic eye contact, voice calmer, more interest showing body language, having a smile on their face, etc). After they're more relaxed with this, learning about flirting and teasing with examples to follow. How are these different than indirect routines? The girl knows u like her and u got much more leeway out of these more without having to worry which line u use next or having to worry about demonstrating higher value.

Speaking of which, that's a contradiction in terms. If he were being natural, just like if he were "being himself", he wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary. And that's why nothing would change. The fact that he's here means that he's willing to do whatever it takes to change what is natural to him.

Ur making it sound like indirect would be his only choice left. Yes, he's willing to do what it takes, and one of the better options is to learn it the more natural effective way.

And that means learning unnatural things, at least at first, until they become natural. If we're doing things that he's never done before, that he's not used to (being a challenge, ****y & funny, etc.), why are routines that much worse?t ur

Many of the things he needs to learn are new beliefs. That's the first step, and yes...some of the natural game things he will learn will be unnatural BUT it'll feel more natural than say indirect stuff. Routines are much worse, because ur not given that much leeway when u look at the structure. If the girl isn't receptive to the routine, what will u say next? "Oh what routine will i use next?" He's limited. When u go the natural route, with just a simple foundation and many examples to use of what to talk about, u won't run out of things and u'll improvise that much easier. The indirect crowd's argument will be, "Oh wait! I got more routines to use" But u can only remember so much and like i said, ur basing her reactions on what to say next with the routine. whereas when u follow a more natural gameplan, u dont' care what she says next, u role with it and even that nervous guy can come up with something new and keep things going.

I'm not saying that routines are for everybody. But shouldn't people at least get the chance to try?

Of course they should get the chance to try, but in his case, Pete doesn't even need them. He's not one of those nervous approach anxiety guys u suggest. Even then, many of the indirect guys still feel the need that these lines will solve their problems confidence wise, but its further from the truth.

 

[pete101]

Pete101:

ABOUT LOWERING HER DEFENSES:
Petey, ur so concerned with her defenses...that its affecting ur approach. Even if u go in indirect, some are gonna react that way. So why even bother worrying about it? Its more incongruent when ur hiding ur interest then ALL of a sudden u reveal it to her out of the blue, THAN when she knows u are off the bat. She doesn't have to be as suspicious. BUt if u want to stick with indirect, make sure it comes off congruent.

ABOUT THE DIRECT APPROACH:
Pete, how many direct approaches have u done in London? How many exactly? Have u honestly tried atleast 25 in a certain period consistently? I don't care if afew women looked at u like a psycho, here in the states i've gotten those looks before. If u were nervous and said it with a lack of confidence, of course u'll get that reaction.

Are you even doing the direct approach right, or do u think hitting on them from the side or just saying hi is a direct approach? What do u define as a direct approach? Most of the time...they don't expect it. Don't assume they're not interested just cuz they're caught off guard. Keep plowing. They just need to feel a lil more comfortable is all and thus, doing that...u keep talking to them. Approaching during the day in itself directly, is not a socially accepted thing, why else would a lot of guys be afraid to do it in general? "Oh cuz it'd be creepy/Its not generally accepted" Same excuse u've said. So what difference does it make in London?

I don't care what other people tell u, just cuz something is not socially accepted, doesn't mean u shouldn't do it. I don't know how many females have said, "oh approached during the day? Thats creepy?" or "That's weird". Its not generally accepted here either. What most guys do will hit on a woman from the side in a pathetic manner, thats NOT a direct approach. But the majority of women have responded well to direct. Saying is one thing, while the actions associated, are another.

For further back up to my claims. Check out London Soul at Love Systems, he hails in london, does the direct approach, and the women there LOVE IT. I repeat, he does it in London and they love it. Now how many more excuses can u give me now on it wouldn't work, PERIOD? ;-)

Ur now gonna come up with more excuses now? ;-)

All i'm saying is you can't speak for what it's like here unless you've actually lived here.. it's generally not socially acceptable to start talking to strangers.

you can't compare 1 person to another.. i'm not saying the direct approach doesn't work or is not better i'm saying under certain circumstances and locations it's not wise. the mall for instance is 1 of them.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

All i'm saying is you can't speak for what it's like here unless you've actually lived here.. it's generally not socially acceptable to start talking to strangers.

Of course i can't speak for it, thats why i researched on people who did well with it, and it so happens some of them were in london and they did well with it. They still did it, despite the "Not socially acceptable" and i'm also telling u, Approaching here in the states during the day time aint a generally socially accepted thing either. People in different countries, as i've said, will say the same thing...but do u think thats a reason to not do it? Oh wait...a second, u said its generally not acceptable period. Then why are u approaching period? Caught ya ;-)

you can't compare 1 person to another.. i'm not saying the direct approach doesn't work or is not better i'm saying under certain circumstances and locations it's not wise. the mall for instance is 1 of them.

Yes i can compare one person to another, ur both men in the game. He lives in London under the same so-called "Social conditions" and he had the direct method work, and he aint any special than you are...so i have a right to compare, ur just more afraid. And there u go saying, "Its not wise".....so ur gonna not go up to a super hottie that u've always wanted cuz u feel its not wise? Whats the worst that's gonna happen? Her just ignoring you or looking at u weird.

Plus u didn't address the other things above, cuz u can't argue that well against them. Ur too afraid of social conditions. Plain and Simple.

 

[pete101]

Of course i can't speak for it, thats why i researched on people who did well with it, and it so happens some of them were in london and they did well with it. They still did it, despite the "Not socially acceptable" and i'm also telling u, Approaching here in the states during the day time aint a generally socially accepted thing either. People in different countries, as i've said, will say the same thing...but do u think thats a reason to not do it? Oh wait...a second, u said its generally not acceptable period. Then why are u approaching period? Caught ya ;-)


Yes i can compare one person to another, ur both men in the game. He lives in London under the same so-called "Social conditions" and he had the direct method work, and he aint any special than you are...so i have a right to compare, ur just more afraid. And there u go saying, "Its not wise".....so ur gonna not go up to a super hottie that u've always wanted cuz u feel its not wise? Whats the worst that's gonna happen? Her just ignoring you or looking at u weird.

Plus u didn't address the other things above, cuz u can't argue that well against them. Ur too afraid of social conditions. Plain and Simple.

i didn't respond to the other things cos there was too much to read and i couldn't be bothered to read it yet..

all im saying is you can't compare.. you haven't been here so your research doesn't mean anything. you're going on the basis of what some other dudes who live here have done.

it sounds like you're just trying to prove yourself right to make a point when u have no justification for it. all i was saying is that yes the direct method is better but im saying that in certain environments where it's generally not acceptable you're better off going for the indirect approach..

what's the point being direct with a super hottie and she just walks by and ignores u when u could have gone for the indirect approach and got her number.. there's not 1 set rule for all, u just adapt accordingly depending on the environment. granted most of the times being direct is the best BUT it could backfire and is riskier.. i much rather go for the indirect and get her talking and listening then make my move so at least she isn't dismissing you straight away.

if she just walks by you haven't even been given a chance to use any of your material cos she's discounted you for being creep going direct.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

i didn't respond to the other things cos there was too much to read and i couldn't be bothered to read it yet..

all im saying is you can't compare.. you haven't been here so your research doesn't mean anything. you're going on the basis of what some other dudes who live here have done.

Yes i am, because they've proven ur statements wrong and have credibility. They're not in any more different social standing so to speak when they were trying to get good. Just like, why should i should even be going by ur statements, ur just another guy ;-)

it sounds like you're just trying to prove yourself right to make a point when u have no justification for it. all i was saying is that yes the direct method is better but im saying that in certain environments where it's generally not acceptable you're better off going for the indirect approach..

Oh yes, im so trying to prove myself to the wonderful u. Feel honored now?
;-). Want a big shiny trophy to go with ur other ones? O

I have a justification for it. As i've said, in the states...its less socially acceptable too, to approach women directly, mainly because its rarely ever done and most people don't do it. But with the certain environments deal, alright...now ur being more clear. I agree, in some instances...the direct approach isn't best, for example: A work party.

what's the point being direct with a super hottie and she just walks by and ignores u when u could have gone for the indirect approach and got her number.. there's not 1 set rule for all, u just adapt accordingly depending on the environment. granted most of the times being direct is the best BUT it could backfire and is riskier.. i much rather go for the indirect and get her talking and listening then make my move so at least she isn't dismissing you straight away.

That's the thing. Ur assuming too fast that the super hottie will ignore u if u go direct. I forgot to ask, "How do you do a direct approach?" How are ur non-verbals, are u confident with it? Do u say it with passion? And how many times have girls dismissed u? I've gotten ignored before too a bunch of times, shockingly it wasn't even from the super hotties. I could've use ur excuse, "Oh...but its socially less acceptable" That had nothing to do with it, the nature of a direct approach anywhere has the odds of 50/50.

if she just walks by you haven't even been given a chance to use any of your material cos she's discounted you for being creep going direct.

Dude, ur still in the indirect mindset. Using material won't go well with direct. It comes from u, not ur tactics, routines or whatever stuff. C'mon now. Thats why u might not be doing well with it. Ur not understanding direct that well. U lack the mindset that goes with it. Of course if u try to use certain material, it won't go well with it...it ruins its flow.

I asked another guy i know in the community who hails in england too, and guess what he said? It seems to go fine as he said he's tried it and some girls were responding well to it and some didn't, and guess what? Under the same conditions as u.

Also why should i hold ur justification? They got just as much as u...if not more since i talked to them longer...