"Madonna syndrome: I should have ditched feminism for love, children and baking"

[Jitterbug]

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article5662099.ece

There have been quite a few articles like this written by women in recent years but this is one of the very few I've read that does not blame men at all. Instead, all the blames are directed towards women & feminism.

 

[darkstarrr]

"....now, nearly 37, those same values leave me feeling cold. I want love and children but they are nowhere to be seen. I feel like a UN inspector sent in to Iraq only to find that there never were any weapons of mass destruction. I was led to believe that women could “have it all” and, more to the point, that we wanted it all. To that end I have spent 20 years ruthlessly pursuing my dreams - to be a successful playwright. I have sacrificed all my womanly duties and laid it all at the altar of a career. And was it worth it? The answer has to be a resounding no."

Nice find JB. This topic has grazed many threads on this forum. I was just talking to one of my plates/pearls today and she said herself how she would love to walk barefoot all day and be with a man who supports her financially etc while she supports him by standing by him etc - instead of trying to fight an unfulfilling battle, especially in this terrible economy. I won't argue with her, the duality she describes seems like one that would be a lot less complicated than what we see as being the norm today.

 

[jophil28]

I guess that the author is saying what a lot of women have silently thought but were too enmeshed in their membership of 'the sisterhood'..

The cracks are starting to appear it seems.
I am wondering lately about the effects on the feminist movement, and its entrenched attitude of entitlement by the impact of the GLobal Financial Crisis.
Interesting times ahead fellas....

I have always held that "feminism" is a social affliction of the affluent. Middle class welfare in many respects..

 

[Jitterbug]

For sure it'll be hard to be strong, independent or whatever when the going gets really tough and men have to work hard just to look after their own arses first before giving a sh!t about the princesses.

 

[vitor]

I am all for my wife making money and having a career but that is long after the kids are in middle school, and not at a cost of my expectations. I am going to be the provider and bread winner. She cooks, cleans, I make the money, cut the grass, coach sports, smack the kids when they are bad, raise them, shovel the snow, do manly things.

 

[Jeffst1980]

This is certainly a noteworthy trend because it seems to be leading towards a more realistic, balanced view of gender in contemporary society. Oddly enough, I believe that the PUA movement contributed to this as well, by openly experimenting with the nature of attraction and debunking much of the supposed "mystery."

I think women are now beginning to realize that they have been sold a myth--that they can "have it all" (career, family, romance) by refusing to be boxed in by a patriarchal society. They by and large identified men as the chief obstacle, when in reality, it's their own desires and motivations.

The truth is that NO woman really "has it all." There just are not enough hours in the day to manage a career while raising a family and keeping an active social life. This myth has no doubt led many women to feel that "married life isn't all it's cracked up to be"--factor in no fault divorce and the "courageous" view of single motherhood held by much of society, and you have the recipe for some really messed up kids.

The good news is that a lot of women don't buy into that stuff at all, and I suspect that this will only improve with time. In some ways, the last few decades have been a social experiment, and the subsequent destruction of family life has been the outcome. However, I do believe that the securing of workplace equality and increased education for women have been worthwhile achievements. Now, the real question is: Now what? Women have options, and that's great--but do they really want a career, or do they want a family? What is ultimately the more fulfilling path? Hopefully the belief that stay at home moms are somehow compromising themselves and shunning their 'higher calling' will fade into antiquity.

I'm actually fairly liberal political, but very much traditional in my own relationships, because it's what WORKS. If a mother stays at home for 5 or 6 years at the very critical beginning of a child's life, she is laying the foundation for a well-adjusted human being. If she chooses her career and dishes the child off to a cavalcade of nannies, babysitters, and day care personnel, her child won't be so lucky. This is fact. The same goes for divorce: A single mom is NOT a family.

Hopefully, this post-feminist turbulence should not even be an issue for us here, as long as we select women with beliefs consistent with our own in regards to family life. We can only be the best man we can be--and then, the best FATHER we can be--because it works both ways!! A good, traditional mother can't make up for an abusive, irresponsible father.

And--as a final note, if you encounter a woman that chooses to put her career first, don't judge her. Some women are simply more suited for a career than they are for motherhood. Just don't start a family with her.

 

[The Bat]

Now, nearly 37, those same values leave me feeling cold. I want love and children but they are nowhere to be seen. I feel like a UN inspector sent in to Iraq only to find that there never were any weapons of mass destruction. I was led to believe that women could “have it all” and, more to the point, that we wanted it all. To that end I have spent 20 years ruthlessly pursuing my dreams - to be a successful playwright. I have sacrificed all my womanly duties and laid it all at the altar of a career. And was it worth it? The answer has to be a resounding no.

Ouch, harsh words.

Although most feminists end up realizing that they betrayed femininity by trying to embrace masculinity. Most of the time, we only see bitter, angry, childish feminists who want to blame their situations on men. Every now and then, you will see feminists like this one who blames her situation on women.

The funny thing is that they all want to blame it on something external rather than own up to the fact that it was themselves who chose to blindly follow the herd and not think for themselves.

 

[STR8UP]

Yea, all of these women who tried to be men are reaching the age where they are realizing they were sold a lie. The second generation of feminism has felt the edge of the knife, and my guess is that the third generation is going to wake up to an even harsher reality.

The tide is turning fellas....change is on the horizon.

 

[Nutz]

I think this was what it all boiled down to:

I have always felt a huge pressure to be successful to show men that I am their equal. What a waste of time.

In other words, being equal is great, right up until it leaves you feeling empty inside. Women have different drives than men, having children being the main one. If they give that up and try to be penisless men as many feminists are prone to do, then on the backslide the end up like the woman in the article. They're childless, many are not in a relationship, and without those things for women they feel hollow and empty. That's the unintended consequence for modern women, because when feminism was starting, those women already had their kids and family, so they got the best of both worlds. Now women are told don't do that, get the career and equality first, and by the time they're seen as a success it's too late to to settle down and start a family.

 

[Demodulate]

Woman are not mens equals and vice a versa... they are our counterparts..

 

[darkstarrr]

I'm actually fairly liberal politicaly, but very much traditional in my own relationships, because it's what WORKS. If a mother stays at home for 5 or 6 years at the very critical beginning of a child's life, she is laying the foundation for a well-adjusted human being. If she chooses her career and dishes the child off to a cavalcade of nannies, babysitters, and day care personnel, her child won't be so lucky. This is fact. The same goes for divorce: A single mom is NOT a family.

Hopefully, this post-feminist turbulence should not even be an issue for us here, as long as we select women with beliefs consistent with our own in regards to family life. We can only be the best man we can be--and then, the best FATHER we can be--because it works both ways!! A good, traditional mother can't make up for an abusive, irresponsible father.

And--as a final note, if you encounter a woman that chooses to put her career first, don't judge her. Some women are simply more suited for a career than they are for motherhood. Just don't start a family with her.

The cracks are starting to appear it seems.
I am wondering lately about the effects on the feminist movement, and its entrenched attitude of entitlement by the impact of the GLobal Financial Crisis.
Interesting times ahead fellas....

The tide is turning fellas....change is on the horizon.

I think this was what it all boiled down to:

In other words, being equal is great, right up until it leaves you feeling empty inside....They're childless, many are not in a relationship, and without those things for women they feel hollow and empty. That's the unintended consequence for modern women, because when feminism was starting, those women already had their kids and family, so they got the best of both worlds. Now women are told don't do that, get the career and equality first, and by the time they're seen as a success it's too late to to settle down and start a family.

Kind of reminds me of the big bang theory when everything comes back around in the end to how it was in the beginning if you know what I mean. A societal equilibrium of sorts.

 

[mrRuckus]

It's too bad that since women flooded the workforce it's not usually viable to have only one income to support a family. So even if they want to stay home now, good luck.

And, of course, it'll swing back... and women will get to do whatever they want once again and men will just let it happen. "Either system you want, dear. It's up to you."

THis lady hasn't learned THAT much. Evidence: "Men are programmed to like their women soft and feminine. It's not their fault - it's in the genes. " FAULT? It's still painting that it's wrong for men to not like "strong and independent."

 

[Mr. Me]

Did you notice the two comments from North American women?

One calling her arguments offensive and wrong. Offensive?:

"[the author's] arguments about what is "instinctive" to men and to women are offensive and demonstrably wrong."

Katie, Portland, OR, USA

The other mocks her and calls her names:

"Mummy told me that if I relentlessly pursue my career that I'll be happy and I'm not and it's all her fault and Madonna's too!! Maybe a husband and baby will make me happy... It's hard to be admired and respected by men or women when you're a spoiled child."

Judith Samson, Santa Cruz, USA

Ah, the Sisterhood of Women. How they support each other so lovingly, eh?

 

[jophil28]

One calling her arguments offensive and wrong. Offensive?:

"[the author's] arguments about what is "instinctive" to men and to women are offensive and demonstrably wrong."

Katie, Portland, OR, USA

There are a bunch of words that women use to TRY to shame those with whom they disagree,
THe popular ones currently include "offensive ", " domineering"..." controlling " and the alltime favorite aimed at any man who expresses himself strongly or forcefully .. " abusive ."

Sheesh !

 

[Onlyliveonce]

What's the over/under on the amount of cats Kate from Oregon has? I say seven, one to be angry with every day of the week.

 

[speakeasy]

I know a couple women that would fit into this category. I believe society calls them spinsters. They have both talked about possibly getting fertilized from a sperm bank or adopting when they are ready to have kids. I have never seen either in a relationship with a man and they both seem extremely discouraged that they'll find one. They are both very nice women at heart, and I think they are really good people. Both they both seem feministic and into the independence and career/school thing as a priority in their life.

One of them has become very obsessed with animals in the last few years and treats her dogs literally like children. She even calls them her kids. I think this is exemplary of women's basic instinct to nurture. If it's not her own babies, then it will be puppies. I don't know any single guys that have a house full of cats or dogs like that. And even when some guys do get dogs, it's as a prop to help meet chics at the park.

 

[jophil28]

. And even when some guys do get dogs, it's as a prop to help meet chics at the park.

..or go get the ducks out of the swamp.

 

[STR8UP]

One of them has become very obsessed with animals in the last few years and treats her dogs literally like children. She even calls them her kids. I think this is exemplary of women's basic instinct to nurture. If it's not her own babies, then it will be puppies. I don't know any single guys that have a house full of cats or dogs like that. And even when some guys do get dogs, it's as a prop to help meet chics at the park.

Haha...so true....

Nothing wrong with having a pet, but these women take this sh!t overboard. I would never be able to get involved with a women who fawns over her animals like I see some of these women doing. These yippy little sh!t dogs are doted over as a child would be.

My theory is that any chick who focuses that much of her "love" on something that isn't human is trying to make up for a deficiency she has with people. Cause of course. little "Dolce" is always there for her and would never let her down. Kinda sick if you ask me.

 

[ChumpNoMore]

What's the over/under on the amount of cats Kate from Oregon has? I say seven, one to be angry with every day of the week.

:crackup:

 

[Luthor Rex]

My theory is that any chick who focuses that much of her "love" on something that isn't human is trying to make up for a deficiency she has with people. Cause of course. little "Dolce" is always there for her and would never let her down. Kinda sick if you ask me.

Exactly. The puppy never talks back, you never wonder if the puppy really loves you, the puppy never comes home and you wonder where it has been... etc. etc.

:crazy: